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computer parts posted:Truck routes are 90% "one very simple route" and 10% "a lot of confusion and congestion". The latter is why you'd pay to have someone there just in case. Trains require tracks and infrastructure though? Walmart has a huge small hop trucking fleet and that definitely goes automation as soon as they can. That's why I say that instead of a 50k a year employee you end up with a minimum wager holding a dead man switch. The bargaining power argument is a huge thing. My father worked for decades at a tire factory and one of the things that the company used to keep people from unionizing was automation. They had a showpiece automated factory which they used as a threat that jobs stayed only for as long as people were cheaper than robots. Whether it was true or not doesn't matter. The workers were cowed and they were losing limbs working for $15/hr in the 90s.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:29
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So, how the gently caress are people supposed to deal with the whole "end of work" thing? Like I have a BA and I know that isn't going to be good enough to get me a "fantastic" job anymore. I personally wouldn't mind having to work less and less, but with less money being around for workers, and more being focussed in capital doesn't this just end up with thousands not working "a job" but working different ones in order to keep themselves afloat? Does this mean that we're just at the mercy of capital forever? gently caress, no wonder people are mad.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:29
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Whether something goes automated or not entirely depends on whether or not it's cost effective to transition into such a model. There are plenty of factories in China where things are done by manual labor because the cost benefits just doesn't slant towards automation (because there's no minimum wage and all the nice stuff we have here in the US). Once regulations (as well as the cost of technology) shifts the costs towards the automation side, THEN people would start investing in automation. Until then, you can probably count on your cheap Chinese made goods to be at least in part done with manual labor. Ideally, with enough automation, we would enter post-scarcity. Realistically, people are assholes and hoard wealth and capital and refuse to share without getting something in return. Any attempt to work towards post-scarcity would most likely get you labeled as a socialist, or worse, a <gasp> communist! The Cold War did such terrible things to the American mindset.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:30
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Paul MaudDib posted:Remember when a morning-zoo anchor prank called Scott Walker while pretending to be a Koch Brother and they compared notes on how best to bust unions? Good times. Yes. I also remember that he won re-election by 6 points afterwards.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:31
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Horking Delight posted:Don't worry, all he needs to do is get New York, and he'll have votes to spare! Maybe Trumps November surprise will be to drop a giant wad of campaign cash from his Tower in New York in a desperate attempt to look rich and benevolent. Just think about it, it fits perfectly. In his mind this action might make him win NY. He isn't really using his campaign money. If he can convince the GOP that this is a reasonable way to spend the campaign donations in a last ditch effort to win, he'd grab 100 million in cash. Hide 75 some place. Drop down the rest and claim he'd dropped everything. Nobody could ever prove how much money landed on the floor. At the same time, people who already love him would actually believe that was his money to waste and would declare him the new saint patron of trickle downing. Of course, he'd still lose NY and by extension the presidency by a large margin. But from his perspective he embezzled countless millions while looking like a hero and avoided 4 years of tiring paperwork. Seems like an ideal world for him.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:33
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FuzzySlippers posted:Trains require tracks and infrastructure though? Trains already exist. You can rent car access. quote:Walmart has a huge small hop trucking fleet and that definitely goes automation as soon as they can. That's why I say that instead of a 50k a year employee you end up with a minimum wager holding a dead man switch. With the amount of hours a truck driver works $40k would be a bargain versus a min-wager. Especially when you add in overtime. PS: The median wage for truck drivers employed by Walmart directly is currently about $73,000 versus $40k for drivers in general. So obviously they value drivers enough to not skimp on costs.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:34
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Josef bugman posted:So, how the gently caress are people supposed to deal with the whole "end of work" thing? Like I have a BA and I know that isn't going to be good enough to get me a "fantastic" job anymore. I personally wouldn't mind having to work less and less, but with less money being around for workers, and more being focussed in capital doesn't this just end up with thousands not working "a job" but working different ones in order to keep themselves afloat? What will probably eventually happen is some kind of grudging expansion of a GMI program of some kind, which will probably prevent an actual rising.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:36
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Stultus Maximus posted:Yes. I also remember that he won re-election by 6 points afterwards. Which again stems back to the problem of state dem parties having absolutely lovely candidates to run against terrible republican incumbents. Maine is especially bad because the same democratic spoiler got LePage elected twice over.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:38
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They can. Well, they can tie 269-269, anyway, which is effectively a win.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:46
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is there anything more boring than the pearl clutching 'so THIS is what a presidential election is?!' that comes from the most dull and useless people every time someone sells a t-shirt with a politician's face on a pig's rear end or something?
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Sep 4, 2016 21:54
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Tatum Girlparts posted:is there anything more boring than the pearl clutching 'so THIS is what a presidential election is?!' that comes from the most dull and useless people every time someone sells a t-shirt with a politician's face on a pig's rear end or something? The way they act like it's somehow novel and exceptional, too.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:56
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Tatum Girlparts posted:is there anything more boring than the pearl clutching 'so THIS is what a presidential election is?!' that comes from the most dull and useless people every time someone sells a t-shirt with a politician's face on a pig's rear end or something? Chia Gingrich is legit real funny though. Look at his grump face, he's probably already thinking about how to ditch his latest Chia-wife after she caught a cold.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:58
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Chipotle's in trouble again!quote:What started as “workplace morale” problems for Chipotle has snowballed into a huge class-action lawsuit over unpaid wages. A daunting number of employees — 9,961, or roughly 1 in 5 — have joined the complaint, which claims the chain “routinely requires hourly-paid restaurant employees to punch out, and then continue working until they are given permission to leave.” Managers allege they also had to work without pay, and were required to shortchange staff in order to “meet budget goals,” as CNNMoney explains it. Wonder how common this is in food service (lol very common)
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Sep 4, 2016 22:01
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You are a complete tool if you think the 3am ad was "disgusting"
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Sep 4, 2016 22:01
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Josef bugman posted:So, how the gently caress are people supposed to deal with the whole "end of work" thing? Like I have a BA and I know that isn't going to be good enough to get me a "fantastic" job anymore. I personally wouldn't mind having to work less and less, but with less money being around for workers, and more being focussed in capital doesn't this just end up with thousands not working "a job" but working different ones in order to keep themselves afloat? Mincome, eventually. There is enough money to go around to support everyone, but it would involve restructuring a lot of the economic systems we're used to. Realizing people have value solely by being people, and not by how much money they make or what they do, would be a first start, but even that feels like it's a long way away. By the way, there was a study at Oxford a few years ago analyzing how likely jobs were to be automated. The tl;dr is jobs that involve creativity and working directly with people are least likely to go away. http://www.oxfordmartin.ox.ac.uk/downloads/academic/The_Future_of_Employment.pdf
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Sep 4, 2016 22:05
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Trabisnikof posted:You are a complete tool if you think the 3am ad was "disgusting" No, it was actually a really lovely ad and something that was rightly mocked. People called it such at the time and I'm not going to suddenly change my mind on it because Hillary Clinton is the actual nominee. Luigi Thirty posted:Chipotle's in trouble again! That's loving insane but not surprising.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:11
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dicks assassin posted:By the way, there was a study at Oxford a few years ago analyzing how likely jobs were to be automated. The tl;dr is jobs that involve creativity and working directly with people are least likely to go away. Huh, maybe my ghost tours and regular talks I give on monsters might help. It's still saddening though, espeically as those roles have difficulty unionising.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:12
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dicks assassin posted:Mincome, eventually. There is enough money to go around to support everyone, but it would involve restructuring a lot of the economic systems we're used to. Realizing people have value solely by being people, and not by how much money they make or what they do, would be a first start, but even that feels like it's a long way away. I'm really skeptical mincome is the way of the future mainly because Mincome quickly became a Buzzword for Millennials who dream of getting paid to post lovely memes on Reddit. Luigi Thirty posted:Chipotle's in trouble again! It is more surprising Chipotle has people working for them. Every time I try to eat at one they have a skeleton crew of 2 on the line and 1 in the kitchen. The one by my office has a line out the door from 11am to 1pm every day and they're still only staffing 3-4 people for the entire place. By the end of lunch the tables and floor are covered in food and the line takes 30-45 minutes. The problem appears to be resolving itself because people have started to avoid it. From the outside it looks like the standard Growth -> Income transition gently caress up into death spiral. They're probably going to end up cutting costs until their income drops to meet it. Xae fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 22:14
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ImpAtom posted:No, it was actually a really lovely ad and something that was rightly mocked. People called it such at the time and I'm not going to suddenly change my mind on it because Hillary Clinton is the actual nominee. It is routinely considered among the best political ads of the modern era. At the time it was only considered "disgusting" by anti-Hillary idiots or maybe bed wetters who feared it would win McCain the election because it was so good. I supported Obama in 2008 and I don't see that ad as "disgusting" only "effective." What part is disgusting exactly?
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Sep 4, 2016 22:16
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Yeah, of all the things Obama was attacked on in 2008, "lack of experience" was probably the most legitimate.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:19
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Trabisnikof posted:What part is disgusting exactly? The entire thing? It's a ridiculous fearmongering ad that uses the subtle implication that Obama would get your sleeping children killed? It being effective doesn't suddenly nullify that any more than Benghazi poo poo being used to rile up the base doesn't make it not disgusting. This isn't even a new argument. People were saying this when it aired.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:27
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computer parts posted:Trains already exist. You can rent car access. They try to minimize the number of long haul drivers they employ. Obviously it isn't possible to do that everywhere with stores spread all over the country. I know people who drive a truck for them and Walmart tries to make it a normal 8 hour a day job to limit costs though they like to float it as family friendly. They could easily do that with an automation attendant where it would be easy to shuffle them between trucks at stops to manage their hours. You are crazy if you think they value their employees and no one who works for them is under that illusion (hell they just recently lost a big lawsuit for stiffing drivers on rest pay). Still not the point though. At the moment truckers have some leverage against the company because Walmart needs them. The business falls apart without truckers and they need an absurd number. If their business didn't depend on truckers (Walmart's model depends on massive trucking, rail can't substitute) they would poo poo all over them like the rest of their employees. When automation is an option even if they don't adopt it completely they can use it to batter down the salaries of their drivers.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:28
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https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/772460287572185088 hahahah (the person who wrote this was not being ironic)
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Sep 4, 2016 22:32
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ImpAtom posted:The entire thing? It's a ridiculous fearmongering ad that uses the subtle implication that Obama would get your sleeping children killed? Is it really ridiculous to say "my opponent is irresponsible and shouldn't be trusted with executive power?" That's been a thing since the 60's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDTBnsqxZ3k
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Sep 4, 2016 22:32
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FuzzySlippers posted:They try to minimize the number of long haul drivers they employ. That article is about how there's nearly 50,000 shortage in the number of truck drivers they need.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:33
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computer parts posted:That article is about how there's nearly 50,000 shortage in the number of truck drivers they need. That's because Boise State has such a lovely graduation rate.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:35
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ImpAtom posted:The entire thing? It's a ridiculous fearmongering ad that uses the subtle implication that Obama would get your sleeping children killed? So are you mad that it used evocative imagery of children or are you mad that the ad said that "Clinton is better than Obama on national security and that has impacts on the Homefront" or both? Pakled posted:Is it really ridiculous to say "my opponent is irresponsible and shouldn't be trusted with executive power?" That's been a thing since the 60's. Or when Reagan made the subtle implication that Mondale would let your family get eaten by a bear? 
Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 4, 2016 |
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Sep 4, 2016 22:35
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Trabisnikof posted:So are you mad that it used evocative imagery of children or are you mad that the ad said that "Clinton is better than Obama on national security and that has impacts on the Homefront" or both? The former. Clinton billing herself on being more experienced is fine. The use of "he'll get your children killed" is not. Bill Richardson even cited the ad as part of the reason he endorsed Obama over Clinton so like this isn't a random out-of-nowhere comment. If you like it, fine, more power to you. I don't and that's certainly not an opinion that was uncommon at the time it aired.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:43
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FuzzySlippers posted:They try to minimize the number of long haul drivers they employ. That's literally what happened when we got containerization going and made it really easy to just truck stuff to rail lines for the long hauls and truck it back off at another terminal. It's why America ships a huge amount of stuff by rail - only like China and Russia are ahead of us in proportion, and then just barely.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:44
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emdash posted:https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/772460287572185088 hahahah Bill Mitchell is a hero in C-SPAM, don't you disparage that man (please do)
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Sep 4, 2016 22:50
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computer parts posted:That article is about how there's nearly 50,000 shortage in the number of truck drivers they need. Great job with the laser like focus on minutia there. A business that's entirely dependent on trucking probably needs a lot of truckers regardless of how few they try to employ. Needing a lot of truckers and not finding them certainly means they'll never be interested in pursuing highway shipping that won't require a 'trucker'. I'm sure once they do that they'll be happy to otherwise keep employing truck drivers at a decent salary to keep the profession alive. That's the kind of thing Walmart is known for after all.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:51
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FuzzySlippers posted:Great job with the laser like focus on minutia there. A business that's entirely dependent on trucking probably needs a lot of truckers regardless of how few they try to employ. Needing a lot of truckers and not finding them certainly means they'll never be interested in pursuing highway shipping that won't require a 'trucker'. They'll still require truckers though, even with automated trucks. Any backup driver is going to have to be similarly certified to drive a large vehicle and will have to be paying attention just about as much. Otherwise there's no point in having them as a backup.
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Sep 4, 2016 23:00
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Ipsos has Trump winning Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maine and Iowa: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/updates/#now
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Sep 4, 2016 23:01
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Trabisnikof posted:It is routinely considered among the best political ads of the modern era. Implying that the person chosen to be commander in chief of the most powerful nation on Earth might have to make consequential decisions was just beyond the pale.
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Sep 4, 2016 23:03
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FuzzySlippers posted:Great job with the laser like focus on minutia there. A business that's entirely dependent on trucking probably needs a lot of truckers regardless of how few they try to employ. Needing a lot of truckers and not finding them certainly means they'll never be interested in pursuing highway shipping that won't require a 'trucker'. I'm sure once they do that they'll be happy to otherwise keep employing truck drivers at a decent salary to keep the profession alive. That's the kind of thing Walmart is known for after all. Long haul highway shipping usually relies on people demanding the fastest delivery speed possible (if it's not super time sensitive, you chuck it on a train at a transshipment point and then offload it farther on), and something like shuttling the load between some autonomous thing that can go between terminals gets in the way of that. Meanwhile if you just have some guy deliver it, he can handle both the pickup and the delivery just fine, no matter how terribly maintained and complicated the way to the endpoints are. (This is why "autonomous trucking" for a long rear end time is still going to have some dude who's fully qualified sitting in the seat, even if he maybe gets paid less)
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Sep 4, 2016 23:06
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emdash posted:https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/772460287572185088 hahahah How does someone that stupid remember how to breath?
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Sep 4, 2016 23:06
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CelestialScribe posted:Ipsos has Trump winning Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maine and Iowa: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/updates/#now Keep in mind that Ipsos uses tiny sample sizes per state. They've also got stuff like Utah and South Carolina "too close to call." And even then, they project Hillary as the winner with 95% confidence.
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Sep 4, 2016 23:07
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CelestialScribe posted:Ipsos has Trump winning Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maine and Iowa: http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/updates/#now Michigan ahahahahahaha. Bwahahaha. Thanks I needed a good laugh.
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Sep 4, 2016 23:07
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/772556213313765377 What did Jeff Flake do to put a bee in Trump's bonnet?
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Sep 4, 2016 23:08
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Kro-Bar posted:https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/772556213313765377 Clinton could win Arizona, I would not vote for Hillary Clinton, and, as of now, I would still not vote for Donald Trump
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Sep 4, 2016 23:10
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