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Sir Tonk posted:Or, you know, we could use trains to move poo poo instead of a shitload of robot trucks. We don't have the rail capacity and we don't have the population distribution for this to work.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:42
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Thinking back to the Bush years and the intimidating power the Evangelicals held...it's pretty wild to see how far we've come and how they have been marginalized.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:42
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Sir Tonk posted:Or, you know, we could use trains to move poo poo instead of a shitload of robot trucks. Trains are more likely to be automated than trucks, and they already use remote control units (usually in yards, though).
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Sep 5, 2016 16:43
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Sir Tonk posted:Or, you know, we could use trains to move poo poo instead of a shitload of robot trucks. We do move stuff by train, though? Like, there are generally reasons why certain goods are transported by truck rather than train. Sometimes goods (in shipping containers) even ride on a truck to get to a train.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:43
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Xae posted:We don't have the rail capacity and we don't have the population distribution for this to work. Yes and no. Between major cities, we have a solid rail network. Mile+ double stack trains are common on the mainlines. However, for local deliveries, we don't have the rails for it, and most of those have been pulled up because of trucks. Industrial companies are pretty much the only user of trains for direct pickup and delivery. Go up to Paper Valley in WI and you'll see trains that are entirely empty centerbeam cars (commonly used for paper shipments).
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Sep 5, 2016 16:47
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iospace posted:Yes and no. Between major cities, we have a solid rail network. Mile+ double stack trains are common on the mainlines. However, for local deliveries, we don't have the rails for it, and most of those have been pulled up because of trucks. Industrial companies are pretty much the only user of trains for direct pickup and delivery. Go up to Paper Valley in WI and you'll see trains that are entirely empty centerbeam cars (commonly used for paper shipments). Yeah, all around here are unused and unusable spur tracks because local transport is all trucks now.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:50
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Sir Tonk posted:Or, you know, we could use trains to move poo poo instead of a shitload of robot trucks. We still have to get the stuff from the trains to the warehouse to the store.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:54
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SimonCat posted:We still have to get the stuff from the trains to the warehouse to the store. You must not have a Train To Table store in your town.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:56
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Vox covers a study that explains what we already know (Why Democrats ain't holding state houses before 2030, or "lol better vote for Trump if you want Dems in the state lege")
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Sep 5, 2016 16:57
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of course you need trucks to unload the trains, but all these trucks ripping up I-10 across the southern border of the US is a massive waste of money when we had a perfectly good nationwide rail system a hundred years ago
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Sep 5, 2016 16:58
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SimonCat posted:We still have to get the stuff from the trains to the warehouse to the store. Which is much more difficult for a self driving thing than crushing on a freeway for hours on end, is the thing. Sir Tonk posted:of course you need trucks to unload the trains, but all these trucks ripping up I-10 across the southern border of the US is a massive waste of money when we had a perfectly good nationwide rail system a hundred years ago You really misunderstand things. That sort of stuff simply wasn't getting shipped then. Our freight rail system has pretty much always been great since the 1840s, and now it's better than it's ever been. Passenger rail has never been good for long distance stuff in the US, there were merely times where it was the only viable option. fishmech fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 16:58
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They'll try to automate everything, probably even one day make nanomachines real to gently caress over everyone in the medical field forever, but the key word is try. This doesn't mean the machines will function that well, that the industry will immediately profit from the change, that company heads won't gently caress themselves over firing a lot of staff too quickly and god knows what else could go wrong. But they'll always try.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:58
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Vox covers a study that explains what we already know (Why Democrats ain't holding state houses before 2030) This is all Andrew Jackson's fault.
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Sep 5, 2016 16:59
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All the self-driving delivery truck talk seems about one class-action away from being shelved permanently. Like said in the thread already, Tesla's self-driving thing isn't even working with its elite group of buyers, there's no way this will work for a general population that can't be bothered to check tire pressure. Uber will probably be the best look at a possible future with this, but I don't see it for another decade at least. Maybe in very controlled urban spaces, but it's still going to be a mess. Hell, for it to work the US would have to redo most of its roads, standardize all markings down to the city level, and then find a way to keep it maintained. I don't see Google and Ford funding that effort.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:04
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fishmech posted:You really misunderstand things. That sort of stuff simply wasn't getting shipped then. For the record (and I'm agreeing here, this is just added info), a train has to be within 2-3 hours of a plane in terms of travel time in order for people to consider it over flying. The US North East Corridor is pretty much the only place where major cities are close enough to achieve this (or why it has the most riderships and most trains). There's a few exceptions (Auto Train is one, but that's because of you being able to take your car along), but most of the long distance trains are there because ~reasons~. A lot of people like to go "OH, HIGH SPEED RAIL WILL FIX IT! LOOK AT JAPAN/EUROPE!" No, not really. The reason Japan's works as well as it does is twofold: 1. Japan is much more compact than the US. 2. Japan's HSR is completely separate from the regular lines, and a different gauge to boot. Europe is also denser than the US, gives priority to passenger over freight (US is /supposed/ to but we all know that doesn't happen), and their freight trains are much smaller than ours. Oh, and both EU and JP's rail systems were nationalized at one point, the US's never were.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:09
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iospace posted:For the record (and I'm agreeing here, this is just added info), a train has to be within 2-3 hours of a plane in terms of travel time in order for people to consider it over flying. The US North East Corridor is pretty much the only place where major cities are close enough to achieve this (or why it has the most riderships and most trains).
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Sep 5, 2016 17:13
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Gail Wynand posted:Total myth - Florida, California, Texas, and the upper Midwest all have the needed density of cities. Every time I take a train from Chicago to another city in the region it's at 80%+ capacity. The Hiawatha is one of the exceptions. Sorry I didn't explicitly state all of the exceptions but one, but of course, reading comprehension is hard.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:16
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iospace posted:The Hiawatha is one of the exceptions. Sorry I didn't explicitly state all of the exceptions but one, but of course, reading comprehension is hard.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:19
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Gail Wynand posted:Total myth - Florida, California, Texas, and the upper Midwest all have the needed density of cities. Every time I take a train from Chicago to another city in the region it's at 80%+ capacity. We have rail in the Bay Area and it's great! They've recently installed anti-pee floor coating and a “bacteria-eating enzyme misting system” because they can't stop people from pissing and making GBS threads all over the elevators. The cars sometimes smell the same, or you might get the chance of riding a car with a mentally ill man beating his head that just poo poo his pants! I love public transit.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:21
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iospace posted:For the record (and I'm agreeing here, this is just added info), a train has to be within 2-3 hours of a plane in terms of travel time in order for people to consider it over flying. The US North East Corridor is pretty much the only place where major cities are close enough to achieve this (or why it has the most riderships and most trains). There's a few exceptions (Auto Train is one, but that's because of you being able to take your car along), but most of the long distance trains are there because ~reasons~. A lot of people like to go "OH, HIGH SPEED RAIL WILL FIX IT! LOOK AT JAPAN/EUROPE!" No, not really. The reason Japan's works as well as it does is twofold: 1. Japan is much more compact than the US. 2. Japan's HSR is completely separate from the regular lines, and a different gauge to boot. Europe is also denser than the US, gives priority to passenger over freight (US is /supposed/ to but we all know that doesn't happen), and their freight trains are much smaller than ours. US high speed rail would necessarily be separate from the regular long distance lines too, simply because the current ones are unsafe above 100 mph, and in many places above 80 mph. Also the gauge difference is simply that regular rail in Japan is often narrow gauge, the high speed rail there uses the same gauge as the US/world standard. Also, US rail was nationalized during World War I and for a few years after. Gail Wynand posted:Total myth - Florida, California, Texas, and the upper Midwest all have the needed density of cities. Every time I take a train from Chicago to another city in the region it's at 80%+ capacity. No, they're all either too far to be worth it, or so close together that high speed rail instead of 80-100 mph rail like you can get on northeast commuter services isn't worth it, it'd barely save time. Besides, all those places desperately need commuter rail and in--city service far more than they need fast rail service to some other city that maybe a couple thousand people will need a day. fishmech fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 17:21
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If we can't have trains we'll zip around in vacuum tubes one day!
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Sep 5, 2016 17:21
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Sir Tonk posted:All the self-driving delivery truck talk seems about one class-action away from being shelved permanently. Transportation is a trillion dollar industry. There is way, way, way, way too much money on the table for it to be shelved.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:23
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Xae posted:Transportation is a trillion dollar industry. Agriculture is a multi-trillion dollar industry. That hasn't led to an all robot farm force.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:24
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I personally am waiting for the day when everthing is automated and the machines eventually decide that man is redundant.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:26
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Sir Tonk posted:This is all Andrew Jackson's fault. Should be the thread title every month between now and November.
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Sep 5, 2016 17:31
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fishmech posted:Agriculture is a multi-trillion dollar industry. That hasn't led to an all robot farm force. http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/robots/a22672/case-self-driving-tractors-are-coming-to-america/
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Sep 5, 2016 17:37
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fits my needs posted:We have rail in the Bay Area and it's great! They've recently installed anti-pee floor coating and a “bacteria-eating enzyme misting system” because they can't stop people from pissing and making GBS threads all over the elevators. The cars sometimes smell the same, or you might get the chance of riding a car with a mentally ill man beating his head that just poo poo his pants! I love public transit. Agreed, and I wish we had it in the North Bay (SMART doesnt count, it goes no where)
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Sep 5, 2016 17:46
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E: needlessly hostile
Good Citizen fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 17:57
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Sir Tonk posted:
Did they ever stop worshiping Putin?
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Sep 5, 2016 18:05
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fishmech posted:Agriculture is a multi-trillion dollar industry. That hasn't led to an all robot farm force. No, just a nearly all-machine farm force. Agriculture went from 90%+ of the population to 1% on mechanization alone.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:06
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iospace posted:Yes and no. Between major cities, we have a solid rail network. Mile+ double stack trains are common on the mainlines. However, for local deliveries, we don't have the rails for it, and most of those have been pulled up because of trucks. Industrial companies are pretty much the only user of trains for direct pickup and delivery. Go up to Paper Valley in WI and you'll see trains that are entirely empty centerbeam cars (commonly used for paper shipments). Intermodal is what you aren't thinking about. There are cross over points. Direct trucking is cheapest out to about 300-500 miles mostly because intermodal requires interchanges and handling. After that intermodal rail is cheaper. Direct rail isn't what competes with direct trucking. Intermodal rail is. US rail capacity also gets used intermodally as a land bridge from Asia to Europe. We don't need or want rail for local delivery because trucks are significantly better at that.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:09
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Xae posted:No, just a nearly all-machine farm force. Agriculture went from 90%+ of the population to 1% on mechanization alone. Over a period of 500 years.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:09
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Geostomp posted:Did they ever stop worshiping Putin? Only when they tried to go "no you" with Clinton and her "Russia ties."
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Sep 5, 2016 18:10
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fishmech posted:Agriculture is a multi-trillion dollar industry. That hasn't led to an all robot farm force. Actually agricultural vehicles are probably the closest analogue to the transition to autonomous trucking. Precison Ag is the term that encopasses all the tech advancements in farming, but specifically autoguidance systems that operate off of preprogrammed mapping in a computer system in the cab of a combine/tractor/sprayer have existed since the 90's. Major ag companies have been continuously improving programming and GPS tracking quality since its inception. So about 30 years between the introduction of self-steering to fully autonomous. These units can get up to sub-inch accuracy following their paths as set a week ago, with generally only a couple inches drift year to year. All of these lines are managed in a computer and telematics systems t allow for remote monitoring of vehicle performance, work times, any error codes with the computer on the unit, and fuel tank levels. They can even set boundaries that if vehicle crosses, it completely shuts down. The major difference however is that units would be operating in fields with few randomized obstacles. Farmers know every tree, fenceline, and really big rock most of the time so they are included in the planning. But they also don't move. So while the accuracy and performance tracking are analogous and useful, the actual computer driving controls would have to be much more complex. Sorry, Precison Ag was my job for a long time and I never get to talk about it.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:11
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KitConstantine posted:Sorry, Precison Ag was my job for a long time and I never get to talk about it. 
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Sep 5, 2016 18:14
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fishmech posted:Over a period of 500 years. Yeah, that would be the time frame of Industrial Revolution, the phenomena that is the subject of discussion. Hey, what happened to textiles in that 500 year period? Okay, how about metalurgy? How about transportation? Are there any trends here? Jesus Christ, you're normally pedantic, not loving stupid dude.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:16
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KitConstantine posted:Actually agricultural vehicles are probably the closest analogue to the transition to autonomous trucking. Precison Ag is the term that encopasses all the tech advancements in farming, but specifically autoguidance systems that operate off of preprogrammed mapping in a computer system in the cab of a combine/tractor/sprayer have existed since the 90's. Major ag companies have been continuously improving programming and GPS tracking quality since its inception. So about 30 years between the introduction of self-steering to fully autonomous. Plus at an abstract level something like a combine is a robot. Just a pretty dumb one.
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Sep 5, 2016 18:20
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Hodgepodge posted:Yeah, that would be the time frame of Industrial Revolution, the phenomena that is the subject of discussion. No, the industrial revolution didn't start in the 1500s. Please, take a remedial history class sometime. Also, mechanization has very little to do with why we're not all farmers, that had stopped being necessary for a long time before farm populations really declined. There just wasn't much of anything else you could do to earn money to afford to live. Xae posted:Plus at an abstract level something like a combine is a robot. Just a pretty dumb one. By that standard there's never been a non-robotic car, so clearly robotic cars can't kill off jobs. fishmech fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Sep 5, 2016 |
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Sep 5, 2016 18:20
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fishmech posted:Agriculture is a multi-trillion dollar industry. That hasn't led to an all robot farm force. It's getting there too. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-31/deere-deal-for-monsanto-s-precision-planting-opposed-by-u-s-isj365rw
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Sep 5, 2016 18:21
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fishmech posted:No, the industrial revolution didn't start in the 1500s. Please, take a remedial history class sometime. http://www.explainthatstuff.com/howcombineharvesterswork.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMU0goBWRjY
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Sep 5, 2016 18:26
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