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# ? Sep 3, 2016 12:30 |
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# ? May 8, 2024 07:25 |
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how old is duterte and will he give himself an aneurysm on air while shouting at traiturous opposition druggies?
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 12:59 |
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blowfish posted:how old is duterte and will he give himself an aneurysm on air while shouting at traiturous opposition druggies? He's 71. Also, Duterte's nickname is Digong. Can anyone explain why? Google's been no help.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 13:55 |
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Nyarai posted:He's 71. Probably just a Filipino thing. "Benigno" became "Noynoy", after all.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 13:58 |
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Asked a filipina friend for her take on the issue. She e-mailed me this back.quote:A letter to my friends and family in the US and elsewhere: Last two lines are her own contribution.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 16:14 |
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Less than 40% voted for Duerte. Majority my rear end. Even in US elections we can at least get within spitting distance of a winner having 50% (barring Electoral college shenanigans and third party vote splitting). Duerte got a plurality, but even 30% would've given him the same amount of power.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 17:12 |
Xelkelvos posted:Less than 40% voted for Duerte. Majority my rear end. Even in US elections we can at least get within spitting distance of a winner having 50% (barring Electoral college shenanigans and third party vote splitting). Duerte got a plurality, but even 30% would've given him the same amount of power. I think the 91% was referring to his approval/trust rating.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 17:20 |
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Nyarai posted:Also, Duterte's nickname is Digong. Can anyone explain why? Google's been no help. It's a childhood name rooted in the Visayan dialect. Sephyr posted:Asked a filipina friend for her take on the issue. She e-mailed me this back. Sweet Jesus This would not be out of place in the Crazy Political Forwards thread, and there's a ton of poo poo to unpack, but I will try and address at least two big points that haven't been talked about before. quote:You don't understand the depth of desperation until you've lived here. The things you hear in the news do not even scratch the surface. This is the people buying into the administration's Ur-Fascist dichotomy. The drug menace needs to be so powerful, pervasive and all-encompassing that we need to be willing to hand over our liberties and swallow whatever extreme measures the administration wants to enact in order to stop it. Why, if it were any other President, the Philippines would have been destroyed by now! Such is the existential threat we face. But the drug menace is also vulnerable. The police are have taken in hundreds of thousands of surrenderees. They've broken up numerous gangs, arrested hundreds of pushers, and hauled in billions of pesos worth of drugs. The crime rate has dropped, and people feel more safe. Because at the same time, the drug menace can also be defeated, within six months, even. So that we can be saved. By Duterte. quote:Duterte was forced to run for President by the Filipino people You know how in very early American history, it was considered unbecoming to campaign for President? That you were supposed to be drafted by the people and other people were supposed to campaign for you? It's kind of like that. In the run-up to the deadline for candidates to submit their candidacy to our Commission on Elections, Duterte made repeated promises that he was not interested in the Presidency, and he did not want to run. Most people took him at his word, and the deadline came and went with him not filing, and everyone else doing so. But there was a big stonking loophole in the Philippines' electoral laws: in the event of a candidate withdrawing their candidacy, they could be replaced by someone else within 60 (or 90? can't remember off-hand) days. So there was this one guy, Martin Dino, former mayor of one of Metro Manila's cities, that filed a candidacy under the PDP-Laban Party, which was Duterte's party. It didn't take people very long to figure out that Duterte was going to use this loophole to jump in to the race months after the mudslinging had already started between all of the other candidates, but even then, he continued to say that he did not want to run for office. And so there was this movement to draft Duterte. People organized rallies and meetings to try and convince Duterte that he had a base of supporters ready to go out and campaign for him, if only he'd throw his hat in the ring. And this all culminated on the final day of the deadline for the loophole candidate-replacement rule, wherein the news was reduced to waiting at the Manila Airport to await Duterte as he flew from Davao on a private plane just to make the afternoon close of the Commission on Elections. It was a huge deal at the time, because the entire set-up tugged at peoples's heartstrings all across the nation. They bought it hook, line and sinker that Duterte didn't actually want to be President, and was only doing this out of the goodness of his heart, and that we had nothing to fear from him being power-hungry because he never wanted the job in the first place. It gave him a massively advantaged starting position in the polls, like a "post-announcement bump" that never went away until the elections. === This specific emotional appeal also allowed him to form an attack line against Mar Roxas, who was the candidate for the Liberal Party, which was then currently in power under the leadership of President Aquino. See, Mar Roxas was supposed to run for the President in the 2010 elections, but when former President Corazon Aquino died in 2009, there was enough public fervor and sympathy that the party threw their weight against having her son, Benigno Aquino, run for the top spot instead. And so Mar Roxas stood aside and ran for Vice President instead, except he lost. But because Roxas "gave way" in 2010, it was sort of expected that he would run in 2016 even before Aquino was inaugurated. So we're entering this 2016 cycle with a candidate, Roxas, who believes it's "his turn", versus a candidate, Duterte, who's made himself look like the reincarnation of Cincinnatus. And that allowed Duterte to form rhetoric that turned Roxas' partial-incumbency advantage against him. People didn't like the idea of Roxas' inevitability, and since he was due to "inherit" the Aquino administration and was running under their banner, the palpable failures of the administration were retroactively projected onto him.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 18:30 |
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Very interesting unpacking. Being from a Third-World country myself, I could recognize some of the rhetoric, but the background helps. The whole "you guys don't understand our plight, you arrogant colonialist/imperialists" pride gambit is really familiar. And given the West's history of intervention and favoring pet dictators, it finds purchase in a lot of people's hearts. Between the dirty impeachment in Brazil, Duterte showing his fangs and getting popular applause, Turkey giving up the last pretenses on democracy, and the whole Brexit/model fatigue in Europe and the US, it really feels that we are only a big international crisis from a powerful revival of fascism. The only thing to guess is what minority will be the target in each case.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 20:42 |
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Sephyr posted:Very interesting unpacking. Being from a Third-World country myself, I could recognize some of the rhetoric, but the background helps. The whole "you guys don't understand our plight, you arrogant colonialist/imperialists" pride gambit is really familiar. And given the West's history of intervention and favoring pet dictators, it finds purchase in a lot of people's hearts. Plus, let's face it, an intervention by the US, China, or Russia in the Philippines could still end up making things worse.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 21:11 |
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Bobbin Threadbare posted:Plus, let's face it, an intervention by the US, China, or Russia in the Philippines could still end up making things worse. It could make things worse, or it could make a clean slate to try something new that actually works like in Nicaragua. Idk why Russia is in that list. Australia or South Korea would be more likely to try and exercise some political muscle to control the Philippines. Japan might too if not for the fact there's probably still a significant of sore wounds from WW2.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 22:04 |
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Xelkelvos posted:It could make things worse, or it could make a clean slate to try something new that actually works like in Nicaragua. Idk why Russia is in that list. Australia or South Korea would be more likely to try and exercise some political muscle to control the Philippines. Japan might too if not for the fact there's probably still a significant of sore wounds from WW2. Just listing off large nations that like to meddle. Not really commenting on the likelihood of anything.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 22:15 |
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Sephyr posted:Asked a filipina friend for her take on the issue. She e-mailed me this back.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 22:16 |
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Rodatose posted:Last two lines are her own contribution. [/quote] Well, there was a world war or two in between.
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# ? Sep 3, 2016 22:59 |
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Rodatose posted:Did the Philippine-American War and its hundreds of thousands of dead civilians like, not happen, or what The President has been really good at playing the xenophobia card: The US has no right to even criticize the Philippines because their cops are shooting black people, and they invaded Iraq, and they're bombing innocent people in Syria The UN has no right to even criticize the Philippines because they were ineffective in Uganda (and Uganda was much worse!), and the head of their Human Rights Council is from Saudi Arabia which has a much worse human rights violation record, and they've been unable to stop the Syrian Civil War And then this recent attack is going to let them play that up even more by shifting some of the blame onto America: if only the US hadn't created ISIS by destabilizing the Middle East, we wouldn't have this radical Islamist problem in Mindanao right now. And when American police kill African-Americans, those people are ostensibly innocent. When the Philippine police end up killing people, they're killing drug dealers and drug pushers who were fighting back, and is that not completely justifiable? All they're doing is ridding society of its worst elements, after all.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 01:43 |
Debate & Discussion > The Philippines: we think the movie is good and we should follow it
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:18 |
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Edit: sorry about the compression but I disagree with Duterte's declaration of a state of losslessness
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 07:39 |
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In my experience you find bad reasoning like that all over civil society in Southeast Asia
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 08:08 |
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Human privileges
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 10:05 |
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http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/580203/news/nation/duterte-on-discussing-human-rights-with-obama-nobody-has-the-right-to-lecture-mequote:President Rodrigo Duterte on Monday said he does not owe US President Barack Obama any explanation regarding the issues on extrajudicial killings and human rights abuses hounding his three-month-old administration. [translations] are all mine.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 12:33 |
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Considering Duterte is a) terrible and b) going around calling the President of the United States a son of a whore is there any reason why the US or other countries have not come out strongly against him beyond the Philippines being a strategic regional ally against China? I mean this is obviously enough reason why condemnation has been so weak but I wonder if there is anything more to it.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 15:41 |
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It's probably that things just aren't that bad enough yet to justify a chilling of relations. Like, I'm not saying Obama is Reagan, but the US didn't do anything about Marcos except prop him up while he was still firmly in power, and then told him to get out of town once it was clear that he wasn't. A policy which itself (correct me if I'm wrong) was also similar to how the US responded to Egypt during the Arab Spring.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:13 |
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Argue posted:
I thought this was from the UK daily mail. News and comment from the Phillipines is scaring me by showing what the dystopian future is going to look like. Oh poo poo, are we there already?
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 16:45 |
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nopantsjack posted:I thought this was from the UK daily mail. News and comment from the Phillipines is scaring me by showing what the dystopian future is going to look like. Oh poo poo, are we there already?
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 17:23 |
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I'm assuming a war on drugs is a good one to pick, because it will never end and he can continue to reference for whatever he wants or needs. But if for some reason it is successful, what do you all think his next political boogeyman would be?
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 22:10 |
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Muslims, obviously.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 22:29 |
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Schubalts posted:Muslims, obviously. There's a large enough population of them that calling out Muslims as a whole might be politically (and obviously personally) dangerous.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 23:33 |
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Wizchine posted:if for some reason it is successful If immutable market forces can be suspended by Presidential decree then anything is possible.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 23:35 |
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Sex workers and associate individuals might actually be a decent enough target however. Not by someone like Duerte, mind, but someone who campaigns off of a strong morality base.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 23:53 |
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quote:Barack Obama has cancelled a meeting with Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte after the latter called him the "son of a whore". So much about the meetup with Duerte.
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 02:25 |
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Azur posted:So much about the meetup with Duerte. How is it possible for somebody to rise to the position of leader of a country and not realize that insulting foreign leaders only makes you look like a twat to the world? It might buy you some cool points at home but surely they know other countries don't really enjoy making favorable deals with somebody acting like a 12 year old right?
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 03:24 |
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Tarantula posted:It might buy you some cool points at home That's it. That's entirely it. He knows that there's enough of a contingent of the Filipino people that want to reject a "colonial mentality" enough that he can get away with it and his approval ratings will still shoot up. Like, I've seen even moderates go "I mean, he may have been foul-mouthed, but he does have a point, the US shouldn't be meddling" (which, of course the flaw in that reasoning is that yes, the US and the rest of the world are entirely entitled to give a poo poo about how the government conducts our war on drugs, because these are internationally-recognized human rights) gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Sep 6, 2016 |
# ? Sep 6, 2016 03:37 |
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it just goes to show that sometimes centuries of imperial rule have downsides.
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 04:29 |
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It feels like surely John Oliver's team wants to do a full-length segment on Duterte except every week he outdoes himself and they have to rewrite the whole thing.
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 04:45 |
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The first exposure I had to Duterte was someone posting on Facebook that his presidency is what would happen if someone based their political platform on YouTube comments. It's not far off the mark. How likely is a Marcos-style state of emergency in the future, what would start it, and how long would it take before Duterte says "gently caress everything" and implement it?Argue posted:It feels like surely John Oliver's team wants to do a full-length segment on Duterte It's a shame, John's trolling of Jack Warner was a thing of beauty.
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 04:54 |
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Y-Hat posted:The first exposure I had to Duterte was someone posting on Facebook that his presidency is what would happen if someone based their political platform on YouTube comments. It's not far off the mark. How likely is a Marcos-style state of emergency in the future, what would start it, and how long would it take before Duterte says "gently caress everything" and implement it? Well, he's declared a nationwide "state of lawlessness" (nobody appreciated my pun earlier )--which they claim is emphatically not the same thing--in response to the recent bombing in Davao. However, they also said that this state of lawlessness was in the works even before the bombing. quote:Duterte assured the public that what he declared “is not martial law” and that there would be no suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. And of course the Duterte cheering squad says "see, you were worried over nothing--he says it's not martial law, so it's not". It boggles my mind because this is the same friend who chides others for assessing politicians (Marcos, specifically) based on their surname without considering their actual history/actions, but when it comes to Duterte he refuses to believe there's any similarity unless they explicitly say "yes this is martial law and yes i am literally the new Marcos".
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 05:04 |
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While I appreciate some of the stuff the guy is doing. His "War on Drugs" is loving sickening.
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 05:14 |
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Y-Hat posted:The first exposure I had to Duterte was someone posting on Facebook that his presidency is what would happen if someone based their political platform on YouTube comments. It's not far off the mark. How likely is a Marcos-style state of emergency in the future, what would start it, and how long would it take before Duterte says "gently caress everything" and implement it? http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2016/09/04/1620388/panelo-state-lawlessness-being-drafted-even-davao-blast quote:MANILA, Philippines — Chief presidential legal counsel Salvador Panelo on Sunday clarified that the proclamation of a “state of lawlessness” was already planned even before the night market blast in Davao City. This, on top of Duterte having already previous threatened the imposition of Martial Law, and this Panelo person that followed-up the President's statement with how it would have been totally justified had he done so. So while I emphatically believe that the Davao incident was not an "inside job", I am also firmly in the belief that the government is just waiting for the right time and opportunity to either make a justifiable declaration of Martial Law, or to simply erode civil liberties via other means to the point where it's de facto Martial Law anyway. And a lot of his rhetoric has been to shift public opinion in a way that would make it acceptable. To wit, there wasn't an immediate huge public outcry when Marcos declared Martial Law, because a significant chunk of the population accepted it as a necessary step to curb a Communist insurgency. Playing up the drug war as an existential conflict is cribbing from that playbook.
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 05:17 |
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("alam mo" = "you know") The article in question So he's using a completely unrelated series of events to distract everyone and evade having to answer questions about killings in the Philippines. Argue fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Sep 6, 2016 |
# ? Sep 6, 2016 05:30 |
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# ? May 8, 2024 07:25 |
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Is it just a poor translation or are the things Duterte says super insane?
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# ? Sep 6, 2016 05:40 |