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Fister Roboto posted:Well, you're wrong about crafting because the stars denote efficiency rather than difficulty. fun side effect of the artifacts: they have a talent tree in them and it ends on a dump talent that takes a shitload of artifact power (a special experience points that only applies to one artifact at a time) to max out if you're a dps the dump passive goes from 5%-15% increased damage know how in ffxiv you can skip the relic grind and get an equivalent weapon elsewhere? guess what. oh and you still need "weapon drops" in wow in the form of relics since the weapons item level is based on the three relics in it, except now no matter if you use two-handers or dual wield you need three weapon drops instead of one or two
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Sep 5, 2016 21:41
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:I started playing wow again with some friends and installed some addons that like literally spell out boss fights for you. I know it's an addon but stuff will show up on screen like 'run to the boss' or 'run from the boss' or whatever mechanic is showing up. on top of that the spells books are sorted alphabetically so I'm panning through trying to figure out what I can use when and its super loving annoying.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:44
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ilifinicus posted:I tried playing again and I got really bored from hitting one button to gain resource and then another to expend it. over and over and over. it was like level 1-15 in FFXIV, except always it's almost like the lead designer is super obsessed with pokemon go and won't shut the gently caress up about it to the point he's designing wow around it now
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Sep 5, 2016 21:45
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You're telling me WoW classes still don't have a decent regen on resource classes that aren't casters? Man am I glad I left that shitshow years ago.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:45
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I'm very glad resource builders aren't really a thing in this game.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:53
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i mean, they kind of are. a lot of classes build stacks up to blow on something, or work around long cool downs they can extend. the difference is you're not just pressing one button to build the stacks and another to deplete them. playing wow reminds me of like dragoon when 'impulse drive' is its best potency combo or black mage when all you can do is transpose between astral i and umbral i.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:58
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A 50S RAYGUN posted:i mean, they kind of are. a lot of classes build stacks up to blow on something, or work around long cool downs they can extend. the difference is you're not just pressing one button to build the stacks and another to deplete them. playing wow reminds me of like dragoon when 'impulse drive' is its best potency combo or black mage when all you can do is transpose between astral i and umbral i. yeah but the current state of a lot of wow classes atm are "spam this attack to build (resource) then use this attack to spend it)
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Sep 5, 2016 22:00
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They changed hunters in a way I don't like. They took away like, half of our abilities and now as a BM hunter my only way to regen resources is to use an ability on a 12 second cooldown whereas before you had a standard shot ability that you spammed to generate the resource as you needed it. So if I use a bunch of abilities and spend all my stuff I'm basically sat there with nothing to do til the resource regen ability comes off cooldown.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:01
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ffxiv warrior in wow would be in perma-defiance, would have like, heavy swing that built wrath stacks, overpower and inner beast that spent them and like raw intuition and berserk sharing a cooldown. and if you ever used berserk you would get vkicked from the dungeon for trying to do damage.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:03
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fyi these are all examples of why saying things like "cutting down buttons" and "job identity" make some people nervous because that's exactly what the wow devs said when they made every class the same and boring: we're reducing button bloat and bringing back class fantasy
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Sep 5, 2016 22:06
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sword_man.gif posted:yeah but the current state of a lot of wow classes atm are "spam this attack to build (resource) then use this attack to spend it) oh I know and that's why it's awful and I hate it. if a bunch of my old friends didn't play it I doubt I would touch it if they paid me.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:07
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Artifacts in WoW are also significantly different than relics in this game because artifacts do cool stuff like give you new abilities or add new effects to current ones instead of just being a raid level glow-stick.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:08
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sword_man.gif posted:fyi these are all examples of why saying things like "cutting down buttons" and "job identity" make some people nervous because that's exactly what the wow devs said when they made every class the same and boring: we're reducing button bloat and bringing back class fantasy I think there's a happy medium to be found between only having 4-5 buttons and having to play your keyboard like an organ piano.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:09
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World of Warcraft has addons, does Final Fantasy 14 have those too?
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Sep 5, 2016 22:11
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Failboattootoot posted:Artifacts in WoW are also significantly different than relics in this game because artifacts do cool stuff like give you new abilities or add new effects to current ones instead of just being a raid level glow-stick. That's not really meaningful though because there's no choice involved. You can only use your spec's artifact and the ability it gives you. The artifact ability might as well be completely detached from the relic.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:12
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Fister Roboto posted:I think there's a happy medium to be found between only having 4-5 buttons and having to play your keyboard like an organ piano. oh i agree, i just don't like them saying the exact same things
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Sep 5, 2016 22:12
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Also the artifact is literally just a talent tree, which I thought they got rid of because ~*illusion of choice*~
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Sep 5, 2016 22:14
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Fister Roboto posted:That's not really meaningful though because there's no choice involved. You can only use your spec's artifact and the ability it gives you. The artifact ability might as well be completely detached from the relic. Eh I personally don't care about the spec aspect. Mechanical uniqueness is a sucker's game. I just wish relics (and savage weapons) in ff14 did something more impressive than be the best weapon in that tier and glow.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:14
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Sep 5, 2016 22:15
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Fister Roboto posted:I think there's a happy medium to be found between only having 4-5 buttons and having to play your keyboard like an organ piano. I look at FFXVI's PvP and see even more abilities. Almost makes me want one of those mice with buttons on the side.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:16
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Which is a shame, because the best glowy weapons already exist, they're called the crafted ifrit weapons
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Sep 5, 2016 22:20
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Orabilis posted:I look at FFXVI's PvP and see even more abilities. Almost makes me want one of those mice with buttons on the side. Share that crystal ball sometime.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:27
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Fister Roboto posted:Also the artifact is literally just a talent tree, which I thought they got rid of because ~*illusion of choice*~ it's not even loving that, the endgame is to max out everything in it by grinding artifact power
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Sep 5, 2016 22:29
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I got to Idyllshire and man, it's the first time ever the regular store sells gear WAY better than my custom stuff. Either I missed something or that explains my slight struggles at 59.
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Sep 5, 2016 22:33
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Fister Roboto posted:Well, you're wrong about crafting because the stars denote efficiency rather than difficulty. This sounds like a more simplistic copy of Lotro's LI system, which finally started doing LI upgrades at level 100 so you'd stop throwing away EPIC AMAZEBALLS AWESOME weapons and class items every couple levels. Except your class item, since a level 60 first age lasted until level cap for a handful of classes. A 50S RAYGUN posted:I started playing wow again with some friends and installed some addons that like literally spell out boss fights for you. I know it's an addon but stuff will show up on screen like 'run to the boss' or 'run from the boss' or whatever mechanic is showing up. on top of that the spells books are sorted alphabetically so I'm panning through trying to figure out what I can use when and its super loving annoying. After playing some other MMOs with quick GCDs I'm glad for slower GCDs in FFXIV. Also not needing to use Shift/Alt/Ctrl/Shift+alt/ctrl/etc for the elevendy billion skills some games give you under the expectation that your hands split apart like those data entry cyborgs in GitS. Virulence posted:I'm very glad resource builders aren't really a thing in this game. Monks have stacks and chakra, though yeah it's not as bad as the things you're thinking of. Warrior Priests in WHO were alright with their resource buildup because you either went hammer and tome for the regen it provided or you played the class like Sigmar intended and hosed people up with a sledgehammer while refiling your casting resource through blunt force trauma. 
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Sep 5, 2016 22:39
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fount of knowledge posted:Share that crystal ball sometime. Sorry man, you know the rules. You get one question and the response will be so abstruse as to only make sense in hindsight.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:08
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Verranicus posted:
This sounds cooler to be honest, doing a levelling roulette and dreading getting a dungeon that'll just decide to arbitrarily kneecap my rotation by removing a bunch of abilities isn't something I'd consider exactly fun.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:10
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Chucat posted:This sounds cooler to be honest, doing a levelling roulette and dreading getting a dungeon that'll just decide to arbitrarily kneecap my rotation by removing a bunch of abilities isn't something I'd consider exactly fun. Yeah but the express purpose the levelling roulette is to get skilled/experienced players who are either leveling alt classes or going for end game tokens in a pool to slot into dungeons that new players are trying to get through. Making the dungeons scale up would just gently caress over newer players since why would anyone ever queue for anything that isn't the highest possible level dungeon for them at the moment?
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Sep 5, 2016 23:17
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I think more people would do lldr if it didn't remove abilities. Nothing is less fun than queuing as a dragoon and getting sent back to impulse drive hell.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:21
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Fister Roboto posted:I think more people would do lldr if it didn't remove abilities. Nothing is less fun than queuing as a dragoon and getting sent back to impulse drive hell.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:25
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level sync should just scale down your abilites
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Sep 5, 2016 23:25
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Braylake or whatever the swamp is called sucks for being a 34 cap. Made warrior really meh when I was trying it out.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:29
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bonewitch posted:level sync should just scale down your abilites Level sync'd 60s already do more damage than appropriately leveled characters. "Scaled down" abilities would make this problem even worse. Unless you somehow make entire combos worth less than the first step of the combo, but that would all be a crazy balance issue. The entire point of lldr is so that low level dungeons are populated, not so you can speed run for 100 eso.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:31
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Brayflox is more or less the last dungeon you can tank reliably without going into your tank stance. It's kinda fun in that way. Also one of the first dungeons where you get Butcher's Block, which owns.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:32
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hobbesmaster posted:Level sync'd 60s already do more damage than appropriately leveled characters. "Scaled down" abilities would make this problem even worse. Unless you somehow make entire combos worth less than the first step of the combo, but that would all be a crazy balance issue. i don't care about damage i just hate playing half a class. if i could use my 60 abilites i would do lldr every day instead of once a month
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Sep 5, 2016 23:38
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bonewitch posted:level sync should just scale down your abilites The problem with that is since you get abilities as you level and complete quests, it would feel unfair for two characters on the same class in the same dungeon with one having more options than the other simply because they're naturally higher level but scaled down. Normally in a level sync environment you have a mostly even playing field (discounting minor gear advantage), which allows people playing through content for the first time to be able to not be hamstrung by higher level players able to literally poo poo out damage at a rate they can't compete at. There's no amount of scaling that would make DWT, for example, not be OP in lower level dungeons without nerfing it to below the dungeon level because it's built for a different kind of instance experience. You can experience this yourself by queuing for dungeons unsync, equipping a level appropriate weapon/armor, and watch as you still melt your way through. A lot of higher level abilities just plain have more Potency, and more Potency is always better. The only way around that would be to scale down the Potency of these abilities, but you'd still run into situations where being able to throw out a Holy, or a Flare, or Divine Veil, etc would trivialize the content just because it stuns, hits a huge AOE, or blocks partywide damage, for example. Yeah it sucks that you don't have all your stuff when you level sync, but the alternative would be so much worse whenever a player encountered somebody with a higher level character and would ultimately be toxic to the community.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:44
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Kwyndig posted:The problem with that is since you get abilities as you level and complete quests, it would feel unfair for two characters on the same class in the same dungeon with one having more options than the other simply because they're naturally higher level but scaled down. Normally in a level sync environment you have a mostly even playing field (discounting minor gear advantage), which allows people playing through content for the first time to be able to not be hamstrung by higher level players able to literally poo poo out damage at a rate they can't compete at. I'd imagine most newbie's reactions to a full 60 rotation would be less "oh my god it's so unfair how much higher their potency per second is due to their larger set of abilities" and more "holy poo poo when can I shoot the giant dragon space laser" Also even if you're wearing appropriate ilevel gear, you're still a level 60 in Haukke and you're going to melt everything because of it Ryanbomber fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 00:44
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It would make leveling tanks in dungeons absolutely miserable, and maybe healers, too, since they now have to try to heal the DPS class with Cure 1 through the massive damage they're drawing instead of the tank, and few DPS classes get any damage mitigation abilities
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Sep 6, 2016 00:47
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HenryEx posted:It would make leveling tanks in dungeons absolutely miserable, and maybe healers, too, since they now have to try to heal the DPS class with Cure 1 through the massive damage they're drawing instead of the tank, and few DPS classes get any damage mitigation abilities This is a much more valid point and they'd probably have to do another pass on threat balance if they did this, but it's nothing really unsolvable
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Sep 6, 2016 00:50
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Sinners Sandwich posted:World of Warcraft has addons, does Final Fantasy 14 have those too? No it doesn't, thankfully. Keeping up with Addons was one of the worst parts of playing WoW, and that was back during Lich King for me. I can't imagine how it is now.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:52
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