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Chuck Boone posted:Maduro was just in Villa Rosa, Nueva Esparta state, and he physically fought protesters there. I was just coming here to post this, that poo poo made my night  the downside is I bet security forces will seize the area soon and arrest a bunch of people just for the hell of it, like they did when Diosdado's wife got booed a few months back.
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Sep 3, 2016 05:15
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I'm hearing rumors of houses being searched to find those that took part in this. Maduro ordered an OLP on Villa Rosa as well, apparently. I don't know what that dumb gently caress is doing in Margarita of all places anyway.
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Sep 3, 2016 07:50
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fnox posted:I'm hearing rumors of houses being searched to find those that took part in this. Maduro ordered an OLP on Villa Rosa as well, apparently. I don't know what that dumb gently caress is doing in Margarita of all places anyway. What's an OLP?
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Sep 3, 2016 12:38
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Operacion de Liberacion del Pueblo. An all-out military offensive into a neighborhood, intended to kill and arrest any criminals in the area. In reality they are mostly undocumented massacres, I know from the son of a colonel that in the OLP responsible for the killing of El Picure, a pran, over 200 people died.
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Sep 3, 2016 12:59
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Keep in mind that that was a Chavists neighborhood , too. I have no idea what would compel Maduro to walk trough the open street at night, I doubt the guy can show his face outside of big official events without getting something close to what we see in the video. fnox posted:I'm hearing rumors of houses being searched to find those that took part in this. Maduro ordered an OLP on Villa Rosa as well, apparently. I don't know what that dumb gently caress is doing in Margarita of all places anyway. Oh yeah, there's going to be massive arrests and disappearances there, for sure.
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Sep 3, 2016 14:07
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Maduro was apparently involved in a scuffle with an elderly woman named Eudys Marcano. Maduro apparently knocked a pot Eudys was banging out of her hands and confronted her. The latest I've heard is that Eudys and her brother are two of at least 20 arrested in Villa Rosa last night. EDIT: This is a slowed-down version of a longer video that apparently shows Maduro's confrontation with Marcano and her brother. In the video, you can see that Maduro is walking in one direction, but then he turns around, picks something up off the ground, and then confronts protesters (presumable Marcano and her brother): https://twitter.com/TemplarioResisT/status/771959059574579200 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Sep 3, 2016 |
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Sep 3, 2016 15:32
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Templar Resistance
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Sep 3, 2016 18:47
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Internet still hosed since Wednesday...
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Sep 3, 2016 19:00
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Well I guess you can't say he isn't a hands on leader.
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Sep 3, 2016 20:53
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I think one of the important things to note about this whole Villa Rosa incident is that this really goes to show how much of what Maduro threatens is a lie. There's nobody out to kill him, or at least anybody with resources, since that place and that time was a brilliant opportunity for an assassin; there's nobody who will actually come out to "defend the revolution", people are already too sick and tired of his poo poo; and perhaps most importantly, it goes to show how unpopular Maduro is considering that Villa Rosa was supposed to be one of the last remaining Chavista bastions on the island.
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Sep 4, 2016 08:20
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I honestly cant understand why there arent people out to kill him.
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Sep 4, 2016 20:31
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It does seem baffling that he's still in power given how genuinely unpopular he seems to be. They're using repression, sure, but I imagine they're as incompetent at that as they are at everything else.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:21
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fnox posted:I think one of the important things to note about this whole Villa Rosa incident is that this really goes to show how much of what Maduro threatens is a lie. There's nobody out to kill him, or at least anybody with resources, since that place and that time was a brilliant opportunity for an assassin; there's nobody who will actually come out to "defend the revolution", people are already too sick and tired of his poo poo; and perhaps most importantly, it goes to show how unpopular Maduro is considering that Villa Rosa was supposed to be one of the last remaining Chavista bastions on the island.
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Sep 4, 2016 21:36
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Phlegmish posted:It does seem baffling that he's still in power given how genuinely unpopular he seems to be. They're using repression, sure, but I imagine they're as incompetent at that as they are at everything else. Unluckily for us, repression seems to be the one thing they're good at. The propaganda arm of the government also did its job wonderfully until the economy reached such a level where it was impossible to hide the damage they'd caused to it. As for repression, they have the judiciary completely in their pocket and make use of the SEBIN (the intelligence police) to spy on opposition leaders and activists, move against them when they want to, and throw them into military prisons or wherever else makes sense. Regular protestors are handled by the national guard and if they get detained, theyīre screwed that much harder since there are fewer eyes on them although, to their credit, there are plenty of ONGs dedicated to monitoring these kinds of abuses. The thing is, repression is not really that complicated. You give some people guns to threaten others with and throw high-profile troublemakers in jail with the blessing of some corrupt or threatened judge indefinitely to keep others down. That's the kind of thing even chavismo can't gently caress up.
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Sep 4, 2016 22:29
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Labradoodle posted:Unluckily for us, repression seems to be the one thing they're good at. The propaganda arm of the government also did its job wonderfully until the economy reached such a level where it was impossible to hide the damage they'd caused to it. This is entirely correct and is also the extent of the evidence needed to explain why the opposition is so pathetic. They're scared shitless, those that aren't already locked up. It is even possible that some received bribes or threats against them and their families.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:16
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Play posted:This is entirely correct and is also the extent of the evidence needed to explain why the opposition is so pathetic. They're scared shitless, those that aren't already locked up. It is even possible that some received bribes or threats against them and their families. They're not scared, they're opportunistic, and they know that right now, this is the last country on Earth you would like to rule. So they're waiting for Maduro to finish collapsing because they want to run out PSUV completely, even if that means that the country gets to starve to death. Their main interest is to see the country collapse entirely by PSUV's hand.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:56
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Would oil going up again save the PSUV/Venezuela at this point, or is the death spiral too locked in and too many future profits tied up in debt for a sudden injection of cash to fix?
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Sep 6, 2016 00:15
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Sinteres posted:Would oil going up again save the PSUV/Venezuela at this point, or is the death spiral too locked in and too many future profits tied up in debt for a sudden injection of cash to fix? Venezuelan oil is only profitable when the price of oil is high enough to justify its extraction. Since that's unlikely to happen now that there's so much slack in the market place for other, less difficult to refine oils, the economy is locked into a death spiral.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:44
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News of the Future , Twenty Days from Now: This just in: "Maduro killed by angry mob, eaten by second, hungry mob" e: Also would be a fitting fate for that fat little glutton that runs Nork. zimboe fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 05:21
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My whole neighborhood doesn't have internet since last week lol good thing is there haven''t been any blackouts lately so not everything is that bad...
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Sep 6, 2016 05:26
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Also this guy is called Alejandro Puglia and he's currently in jail for daring to fly that drone last Thursday, that was his only "crime", flying a drone on September 1st. 
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Sep 6, 2016 05:57
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So the TSJ decided that any laws passed by the National Assembly will be null and void. To be fair, this does seem more efficient than striking down each law one by one. beer_war fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 07:43
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El Hefe posted:My whole neighborhood doesn't have internet since last week lol How you posting? Ghost internet.
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Sep 6, 2016 08:42
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A White Guy posted:Venezuelan oil is only profitable when the price of oil is high enough to justify its extraction. Since that's unlikely to happen now that there's so much slack in the market place for other, less difficult to refine oils, the economy is locked into a death spiral. Also, hasn't the government basically driven away a lot of the oil expertise and neglected the maintenance to maintain extraction capacity? If so, increasing oil prices wouldn't necessarily help if the Venezuelan government can't pump enough volume to take adequate advantage of them, or has all manner of breakdowns, inefficiencies, and knowledge gaps that hamper the flow systematically.
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Sep 6, 2016 09:41
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Friendly Humour posted:How you posting? Ghost internet. He must be a CIA agent and is lying to muck the name of the people's goverment. Either that or he has some kind of portable smart device that allows him to access the internet trough a different mobile network but that is just complete fantasy.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:33
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Friendly Humour posted:How you posting? Ghost internet. Look at this scrub who doesn't phonepost. Re: (in)efficiency and brain drain in the Venezuelan petroleum industry, I can confirm first-hand that Norway has quite a few Venezuelan oil engineers that were either poached or moved their under their own power. Very few people able to work the system are left, and basically all of them are apparently in the tank for PSUV. Not that I would know, but so I hear.
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Sep 6, 2016 13:25
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I hate to only post in this thread to give unknowledgeable and useless opinions, but it really looks like everything's about to implode in this country. Everytime I read up on it some more outrageous things have happened. Does the military maintain a very good quality of life though, if there are next to no resources in the country? Because when you have to shoot your friends you better be well paid and well fed, or else it's not really going to work.
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Sep 6, 2016 14:01
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orange sky posted:I hate to only post in this thread to give unknowledgeable and useless opinions, but it really looks like everything's about to implode in this country. Everytime I read up on it some more outrageous things have happened. Itīs hard to say. I tried looking up the militaryīs base salary and found no updated resources after the last wage hike was put into effect. But letīs assume for a moment that a regular military man takes home Bs100,000 per month, about 40% higher than minimum wage. Even if we doubled that amount, that would hardly be enough to feed two people if you donīt have access to regulated products (i.e. the time to spend queueing), let alone buy clothes, do home maintenance, etc. Now, plenty of these guys must be lining their pockets on the side trafficking food, medicine, and drugs. But itīs unreasonable to believe that everyone is in on the take. A lot of the lower-ranking guys must be pissed off as well, but what can they do? The government does surveillance and repression well and theyīre vulnerable if it gets out that theyīre planning something dumb. As for the head-honchos, one of them is basically a parallel president and he just anointed 18 members of the military to oversee the supply of regulated products (http://www.caracaschronicles.com/2016/09/02/glorious-army-el-libertador-days/). We literally have a guy whose official title is Brigadier General Fernando Prieto Ventura, Director of Social Welfare for the Office of Human Management at the Defense Minister, Chief of laundry soap, body soap, shampoo, toothpaste and deodorant. Each of those ridiculous titles comes with more friends in high places and opportunities for corruption, which buy their loyalty.
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Sep 6, 2016 15:17
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Labradoodle posted:Itīs hard to say. I tried looking up the militaryīs base salary and found no updated resources after the last wage hike was put into effect. But letīs assume for a moment that a regular military man takes home Bs100,000 per month, about 40% higher than minimum wage. Even if we doubled that amount, that would hardly be enough to feed two people if you donīt have access to regulated products (i.e. the time to spend queueing), let alone buy clothes, do home maintenance, etc. See, that doesn't make sense to me. You'd have to ensure everyone on the payroll is well enough to not start poo poo, and I don't think that's a given right now if everything's as bad as I believe it is. That's where my belief that this won't last much longer comes from. It makes sense from a logistics approach to get rid of Maduro. What's the general social feeling right now? Are people more resigned than reactive? Are there any secret groups meeting to find out what they can do? Have there been any sabotages to state/military buildings, vandalism, something like that?
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Sep 6, 2016 15:27
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I know some people who have parents in the military, the brass are of course doing quite well, they get new cars every now and again and are paid handsomely, members of the Air Force, Honor Guard and Special Forces, as well as SEBIN officers are also given extra "bonuses". I know one guy who's a National Guard sergeant, he's not making that much money, but the military have priority access to regulated foodstuffs and items, so the main thing is that they're not experiencing the famine that everyone else is going through. However, their salary is terrible, and they are increasingly frustrated by the amount of gifts their superior officers get.
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Sep 6, 2016 15:33
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beer_war posted:So the TSJ decided that any laws passed by the National Assembly will be null and void. Presumably for seating the reps from Amazonas. Funny how they're quick to act on this but not on the reps themselves. Oh well. I guess we'll just have to have another carefully choreographed protest on the far side of Caracas! 
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Sep 6, 2016 16:02
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It's sad that the TSJ effectively disbanding the AN isn't even big news here, in any other country it'd mean civil war.
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Sep 6, 2016 16:30
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orange sky posted:See, that doesn't make sense to me. You'd have to ensure everyone on the payroll is well enough to not start poo poo, and I don't think that's a given right now if everything's as bad as I believe it is. I want to believe that, but at the same time I think the military have far too much invested to simply roll over and allow the PSUV to get unseated. If the recall referendum goes forward this year or Maduro is forced to resign, the opposition wins the presidency hands down. Hell, they could run a dumbass like Capriles for the third time and get him elected. If that happens, the military guys lose a lot of their kickbacks and corruption schemes. So the logical thing is to allow the referendum next year and get the Vice President to step in. Maybe they'll force Maduro to name some military guy as the vice before he's out? Dunno how itīll play out. My point is I donīt think there are a lot of forward thinking guys in the military the kind of people who realize the current system of corruption is untenable and will only lead to more misery.
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Sep 6, 2016 16:31
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Presumably for seating the reps from Amazonas. Funny how they're quick to act on this but not on the reps themselves. Yes. I haven't read the ruling, but I understand that this is because the TSJ considers that the National Assembly is in contempt whenever it meets while the Amazonas deputies are in their seats. Like beer_war said though, this ruling doesn't seem to change anything except the manner by which the National Assembly's laws are struck down (blanket vs. individually). I read in El Universal yesterday that the TSJ has issued 25 (now 26) rulings against the National Assembly since December, and that it has struck down seven of the laws that it has passed. I've also just read a headline of Henry Ramos Allup saying that the National Assembly wouldn't obey any ruling by the TSJ. I don't think this will work because the TSJ has the entirety of the State to back it up, but it's hard to see what else the National Assembly could do. They (including the three deputies from Amazonas) were elected to legislate.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:00
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fnox posted:I know some people who have parents in the military, the brass are of course doing quite well, they get new cars every now and again and are paid handsomely, members of the Air Force, Honor Guard and Special Forces, as well as SEBIN officers are also given extra "bonuses". I know one guy who's a National Guard sergeant, he's not making that much money, but the military have priority access to regulated foodstuffs and items, so the main thing is that they're not experiencing the famine that everyone else is going through. However, their salary is terrible, and they are increasingly frustrated by the amount of gifts their superior officers get.
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Sep 6, 2016 17:40
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The opposition have called for a new protest in front of the CNE headquarters in Caracas for tomorrow which will happen starting at 12:00pm until 12:10pm, yeah that's right the protest will last 10 minutes. There is no god.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:32
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Sinteres posted:Would oil going up again save the PSUV/Venezuela at this point, or is the death spiral too locked in and too many future profits tied up in debt for a sudden injection of cash to fix? It depends on what "going up" means. Unfortunately, even the most bullish oil speculation doesnt seen a price return for 18-24 months and very few people predict REALLY high prices like we saw in 2014. Another downside is how long can a run last? There are tons of American companies chomping at the bit to turn wells online and another glut isnt out of the question (even before this one ends). In reality, most of the oil producing world is probably waiting for Venezuelan production to cease as a means for prices to increases
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Sep 6, 2016 18:43
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Another important thing to remember about a hypothetical return to high oil prices is that the country wasn't in good shape even when prices were at historic highs. There was scarcity starting back as far as 2006-2007. Not nearly as bad as it is today, but the economy was fundamentally broken even then. The problem isn't that we've got a competent, efficient government in place that is concerned with the welfare of the country, but oil prices are so low that it can't do its job. The problem is that we've got what is essentially a criminal organization running Venezuela, and the low oil prices have made it nearly impossible for them to throw the money they haven't stolen into making the country just barely stay afloat.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:35
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Any way you slice it, I'm surprised things seem to be more or less holding together still. The nauseatingly ineffective opposition certainly isn't helping but there isn't mass starvation or complete collapse, which is more than looked likely a few months ago. If things keep heading downward slow enough - if the freefall becomes a controlled crash-landing - the more time the army has to entrench and prepare for the long haul of running a repressive military dictatorship.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:09
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National Assembly deputy (PSUV) Elias Jaua spoke on a televised speech earlier today and he said that the time just isn't right for holding any kind of election in the country:quote:If we hold elections, no one will recognize the other's victory. This would make the conflict worse. Reminder that term limits dictate that there must be gubernatorial elections this year, and that the Constitution clearly sets out a list of conditions that, if met, must lead to a recall referendum regardless of whether or not the "time is right" to hold an election. EDIT: It's also pretty cute that he's saying "if we win, the opposition wouldn't recognize our win!" 
Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 20:51
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