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Dehry posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXwQHIsH4Ew 
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Sep 5, 2016 18:45
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Basic Chunnel posted:Do we even know of any big investments by game publishers into exclusive content? They'll probably wait for PSVR to come out, if PSVR actually works out you will see stuff from major studios.
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Sep 5, 2016 19:01
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Basic Chunnel posted:Do we even know of any big investments by game publishers into exclusive content? Bethesda has been talking up their Fallout 4 VR and Doom VR games as Vive titles, but it's unclear if that would actually be exclusive; SteamVR naturally supports both, so they only reason it would be a Vive exclusive would be if they added their own hardware check (they're currently involved in a lawsuit against Oculus). They haven't said they'd do it, but they've also been quite conspicuously saying it was a Vive game instead of a Steam VR game. Other than that, not really. As for your original question, I don't think we're heading down a betamax road unless Oculus completely dominates the market. The Vive might be Valve's brainchild, but it's manufactured by HTC, and Valve is mainly interested in it to keep Oculus from trying to lock them out of the VR market. Since Valve makes its money on game sales instead of hardware, it's in their best interests that SteamVR support as many devices as possible, not just the Rift and Vive, and they've carried through on that so far. SteamVR might not be open in terms of open source, but it is open in terms of hardware manufacturers being able to support it. So... unless you think Oculus Home will crush Steam, I wouldn't worry too much about it 
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Sep 5, 2016 19:45
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Worst case I think you are looking at a Sega Genesis vs Super Nintendo situation, the next gen of one or both is gonna replace them but they are both good for now and also Sony is gonna be the big player soon enough
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Sep 5, 2016 21:18
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Truga posted:And it's is a good thing. Tech patents are a big pile of bs. The USPTO is all sorts of hosed up from hiring and training up through policy and the patent courts :v
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Sep 5, 2016 21:42
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Fove might be a real thing and will be demoed at Tokyo Game Show.
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Sep 5, 2016 21:43
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homeless snail posted:I just drag and drop the obj and texture directly into Unity, it should be super easy to get it into Destinations, though. Thanks, I guess I should probably try and learn how to use unity. It would be a lot better if I didn't have to go through destinations, which is really buggy with steam VR and could just output it to something thats natively OVR as well as more self contained. Unity is free to use, right? Basic Chunnel posted:Do we even know of any big investments by game publishers into exclusive content? The VR market on PC is mostly too small for anyone to risk making it exclusive unless they're getting paid to. Outside of PSVR the closest I can think to a big studio doing officially exclusive content is insomniac, who did Edge of Nowhere, and has 2 more exclusive games coming out, A brawler called Feral Rites, and a multiplayer shooter using touch where you play as wizzards fighting each other called... um, Unspoken I think? Harmonix is also doing an exclusive Rock Band game, along with Crytek who did The Climb which is exclusive. Beyond those its mostly small studios with stuff like chronos, airmech, dead secret, esper, damaged core, PinballFX, DiRT rally, Lucky's Tail, or the upcoming touch exclusives like dead and buried, wilsons heart, superhot, I expect you to die, Giant Cop (lol the drama...), that VR sports thing, etc. I guess theres also minecraft, which is exclusive with the win10 verson but, considering theres also free mods for the java version thats not much of an exclusive. The good thing is reVive apparently works pretty well so you can play the exclusive games on a vive really easy (or so I hear, I haven't actually tried it.), the only question will be how well the vive wands will map to touch when the exclusive touch games coming out. They've certainly got enough virtual buttons with the touchpad, but it might be awkward depending on how the games use them. Someone also mentioned Bethesda, but it's not really clear how they would make it exclusive considering the nature of SteamVR, and I can't see them wanting to lock their games out of any future steamVR headsets that come out from other companies. Even if they did put in a hardware check I have a hard time seeing people not patching past that almost immediately.
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Sep 5, 2016 23:09
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Capcom is doing a PSVR version of Resident Evil 7. No word yet on whether they'll port it to PC VR devices. Some of the pool photogrammetry stuff they've been using to create assets is sick: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1270590&page=1 ...though I can't imagine it will look anywhere near that good in PSVR. I just didn't miss photogrammetry was fast enough asking to use it on this scale for game development. Apparently it was also used for Battlefront?
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Sep 6, 2016 00:23
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El Grillo posted:Capcom is doing a PSVR version of Resident Evil 7. No word yet on whether they'll port it to PC VR devices. Here's a write-up on its use in Vanishing of Ethan Carter, its a good case study.
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Sep 6, 2016 00:57
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So I'm trying to lay on my couch and watch a movie in Virtual Desktop with the Rift and having no luck. When I look at the ceiling, it's just a black bar. Id like to refocus the screen I can watch the movie by staring at the ceiling, preferably in a way that requires no keyboard input after the movie starts so I can just lay down and watch it. I've heard people suggest hitting F4 after the movie starts, but it's not refocusing it on the movie. I still have to move my neck weird to watch it. How does everyone else do this?
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Sep 6, 2016 02:47
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Have you tried Big Screen? There's an environment that is a bed with a screen on the ceiling.
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Sep 6, 2016 02:53
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beergod posted:So I'm trying to lay on my couch and watch a movie in Virtual Desktop with the Rift and having no luck. https://steamcommunity.com/games/457550/announcements/detail/885342693256166654
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Sep 6, 2016 02:55
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I think the big companies are throwing stuff into VR as I saw plenty at E3 and pax. Ubisoft is particularly doing a lot of interesting things. Eagle Flight and Star Trek are both pretty drat cool. Sony seems to have a decent amount coming for PSVR and I'm guessing some of that will get ported to pc. I wonder if they even consider pc VR a competitor so they care if people port? FuzzySlippers fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 04:56
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beergod posted:So I'm trying to lay on my couch and watch a movie in Virtual Desktop with the Rift and having no luck.
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Sep 6, 2016 06:51
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Something I've been thinking about for the last few years and I kind of want to get your guys' thoughts on. Sort of a stream of conscious thing, but I'll try my best to make it clear. Do you ever worry that all VR games will be fundamentally simple compared to flatscreen games? What I mean is using a controller or kb/m, there is an abstraction layer that allows for games to provide a depth to button presses that can feel just as badass as what we imagine doing it would be like in real life. I've been replaying Metal Gear Solid 5, and I just realized with 1:1 hand tracking and hmd tracking, it literally wouldn't work in VR. People won't dive down onto the floor in real life. They can't add a dive action to a button press in VR because too many people would get sick from the artificial movement. Sneaking up behind somebody and choking them won't feel right until there is some sort of full body exosuit with haptics. A lot of those kinda of things that rely on animation in flatscreen games to give that visceral feel won't work well, if at all, in VR. Everybody, including me, wants a game like Skyrim or the Witcher 3 in VR, because the worlds are impressive on the monitor and pretty immersive. But the gameplay in VR...when you unlock the twirl ability for example in the Witcher 3, are you gonna have to spin around 5 times just because you have motion controllers while it tracks your hand position? Or in Skyrims case you just slash and get no feedback on contact and it feels awful and weightless? There is only so much you can do with 1:1 hand tracking. You have to mimic reality too much and I think it might end up cutting off a lot of creativity. Is a game like The Witcher 3 possible in VR and how would you do it? Would you have to become a real life sword fighter to be able to play, or will it always be simplified to make it easier for the majority of people? I think there is a reason all motion controller games feel mostly like tech demos and so shallow, and it's because the human body can only do so much, and the closer we get virtual reality to reality, the less good the games and abstraction will end up being until we circle back and all end up playing Job Simulator 8 hours a day.
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Sep 6, 2016 10:13
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Have you tried the Budget Cuts demo?
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Sep 6, 2016 10:44
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Mordaedil posted:Have you tried the Budget Cuts demo? It's a teleport, open drawers, and throw simulator. In a modern day flatscreen game that would be a single room experience, at most. Then the alarm goes off, the tank rolls into the street and blows up the wall of the room you are in, you somersault out of the way of the shrapnel, climb underneath the window sill staying out of the spotlight on top of the tank and sprint across an open field while dodging morters and enemy gunfire. I have played it, and it's prob my fav motion control game/demo, but it's still relatively simple, all things considered. edit: That is sort of my point. How long are we going to be stuck with these "I can do this" type games. Games are usually about being things we can't do. somethingawful bf fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 10:49
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So you don't feel like a ninja flying around all stealthy, crawling through air vents, dodging bullets, throwing daggers at robots?
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Sep 6, 2016 11:16
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Mordaedil posted:So you don't feel like a ninja flying around all stealthy, crawling through air vents, dodging bullets, throwing daggers at robots? Not really, no. Although to be fair, I'm hard to impress. I think VR is gonna end up being like adrenaline, and once people get used to it, they are gonna need more, and doing what we can do, physically, is gonna get boring pretty quick. What's next? Will all games going forward provide the exact same experience? What do you imagine to be better? And wouldn't it be sad if Budget Cuts is the best that VR with motion controls can offer? somethingawful bf fucked around with this message at 11:30 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 11:27
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too mean
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Sep 6, 2016 11:36
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If you define depth as "things you can't do with motion controls", then sure, you're not going to get depth with motion controls. That doesn't mean you can't have deep and complex game mechanics with interesting relationships between them and an expressive vocabulary of player input. Motion controls absolutely have significant limitations. They will reduce the speed and responsiveness of a game, and they mean that the player has certain built-in assumptions about the effects of certain control inputs. These are both limitations that developers can work around, though, and even where that's not possible there are buttons on the controllers so you can use hybrid control schemes. In the past there hasn't been much impetus for developers to find solutions to the difficulties of motion controls. The lack of precision in the controllers - and in most cases few or zero buttons - meant that it wasn't worth putting in the effort for the small market size available. If VR doesn't take off then perhaps it still won't be, but assuming it does then I'm sure you'll get the sort of action games you're looking for; you just might be playing Spiderman, or Iron Man, or a flying wizard rather than Wolverine or Geralt.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:36
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NRVNQSR posted:If you define depth as "things you can't do with motion controls", then sure, you're not going to get depth with motion controls. That doesn't mean you can't have deep and complex game mechanics with interesting relationships between them and an expressive vocabulary of player input. I define depth as things that aren't possible to do, games are an escape and doing things people can't do normally. People play as generals overseeing a battlefield, soldiers with olympics level stamina, hacking away at consoles with innate knowledge of a fake operating system etc etc. How dumb do VR games have to be so that "normal" people can do them. Are they just doomed to be simple abstracts, like movements are when you press A on a controller? The gameplay from PAX of the new Star Trek really hit home how simple many of these games are really gonna end up being. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUa9iWMv3ao
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Sep 6, 2016 11:41
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I'm not sure what to tell you, VR isn't going to give you super-powers. That is kinda the opposite experience of immersion.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:43
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Mordaedil posted:I'm not sure what to tell you, VR isn't going to give you super-powers. That is kinda the opposite experience of immersion. If VR ends up being just simple games trying to recreate life, it wil never take off, no matter how immersive it is. At least, not in a way gamers want it to.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:44
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Poetic Justice posted:Something I've been thinking about for the last few years and I kind of want to get your guys' thoughts on. Sort of a stream of conscious thing, but I'll try my best to make it clear. I kind of agree with this in some respects. What you say about abstraction rings very true, the feel of swinging a sword and fighting monsters in something on a 2d screen or even 3rd person like chronos, feels far more tense and weighty than the "wii waggle" of sword fighting monsters with motion controls in VR. Until we're literally in the matrix, so many actions still feel silly in VR with no feedback, and swinging a weapon is one of the worst, where you just waggle it through people because there's no resistance. However, I also think its just so so early in the medium that these things will get figured out as time goes on. Maybe you'll never have Witcher 3 in first person, but maybe thats exactly where 3rd person stuff like chronos, edge of nowhere, etc is going to endure. I can pretty decently see a future where batman, assassins creed, metal gear, etc will be playable both on a 2D screen and in VR. Maybe things will become hybrids, maybe gta 8 will run around 3rd person but when you get in a vehicle, or hold down a shooting button it switches to first person and you can use motion controls or whatever. I guess I don't see every VR game in the future moving to 1:1 first person motion controls all the time, like, thats all neat, but I think it's going to be like after the introduction of 3d where everything moved into 3d regardless of how well it worked. Some things wouldn't have worked without it, but other games got shoehorned into it and sucked. It took years for people to realize "oh yeah... just because we can do X now, doesn't mean we have to at the exclusion of Y" so fighting games can be on a flat plane again instead of forcing in stupid 3d side stepping play fields, or that side scrollers can exist again or anything. Maybe they'll just electronically neutralize the part of our brain that makes us motion sick and we'll all be playing quake 3 at top speed. I think the possibility are limitless in how we'll approach things, and its just too soon to draw too many conclusions.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:46
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Tom Guycot posted:I kind of agree with this in some respects. What you say about abstraction rings very true, the feel of swinging a sword and fighting monsters in something on a 2d screen or even 3rd person like chronos, feels far more tense and weighty than the "wii waggle" of sword fighting monsters with motion controls in VR. Until we're literally in the matrix, so many actions still feel silly in VR with no feedback, and swinging a weapon is one of the worst, where you just waggle it through people because there's no resistance. I'm gonna quote this because it's very well said.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:53
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Those games you referred to are never going to find good fit in VR, despite them having potentially the most immersive environments. The genres that will instead stand out and make the best use of VR (for now and the near future) are the ones that have been forever restricted by the 2D screen. RTS, 3D puzzles, world builders, 4X games, flight and racing simulators. You just have to look at something like Tiltbrush to see the role VR is best suited for; games and software that are improved mechanically by a real sense of scale. Immersion is nice, but once you've had your fill of it you just want to get to the task at hand, and that is the most important thing.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:53
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I just don't see VR replacing those experiences, but nor would I want to. I don't really think VR needs to be one way or another, it can exist in its own dimension. The best we can do for swinging a sword around is to give off a rumble, but that can be empowering in its own way without giving off realistic levels of resistance. Think either like a lightsaber or Devil May Cry like gameplay where fast paced comboing is more important than connecting blows.
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Sep 6, 2016 11:58
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Tom Guycot posted:However, I also think its just so so early in the medium that these things will get figured out as time goes on. I was chatting with the fellow at VALVe that designed the lenses for the Vive. When asking about some of the things being discussed here, he replied that we are at the Pong era of VR. The Vive and Oculus will not change the world; we don't know how to do anything. The 3rd and later generations will change everything though. We are quite literally learning to walk again. I've often wondered about the lack of abstraction that results from motion controls; I think that the notion of playing "normal" games and applying their conventions in VR is likely a fool's errand. This is the wild west, normal conventions need not apply any longer.
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Sep 6, 2016 14:31
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I'm confused as hell. There's nothing you can do in the Witcher that you can't do in VR. Are you confusing VR with First Person? Not all VR games are first person, you don't have to play in first person to play in VR. quote:People play as generals overseeing a battlefield, soldiers with olympics level stamina, hacking away at consoles with innate knowledge of a fake operating system etc etc. All of these things are super doable in VR and in fact I have done all of them now? Like, I'm really really confused as to what you're even criticizing. How would VR prevent anything you could do in a traditional video game? VR controllers have buttons. VR games do not need to be in first person. Plenty of VR games already make use of these two truths - there are RTS games and TBS games and third person adventure games out already. (And let me tell you, the motion controllers in RTS/TBS games are actually super great!) I think that adequately addresses every single one of your concerns 100%, which mostly comes down to having a fundamental misunderstanding of how motion controls work and what they are capable of and what VR actually is. If you really want do a gesture I'm sure you can make Geralt do a twirl attack in front of you by crossing your hands, grabbing, and uncrossing (like pulling on of those rope tops) or something like that, I dunno. I imagine most people will just press the appropriate buttons. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 15:04
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Poetic Justice posted:If VR ends up being just simple games trying to recreate life, it wil never take off, no matter how immersive it is. At least, not in a way gamers want it to. I think this is probably true but it won't prevent vr from being successful. The somewhat narrow range of activities that 'games' tend to embrace will often not be at their best in the format. Vr games outside of sims probably won't be very interesting to compete in. I'm not sure if absurdly lengthy playtimes will happen even as both devs and users get used to the format. I don't think manipulating rules will be the dominant activity. That's okay though and that's why it doesn't replace traditional gaming. It will overlap gaming in places but will be it's own thing too. It will be interesting to see what happens longer out 6 or 7 years as it gets cheaper. I've seen people you couldn't pay to drag through an assassin's creed or mgs enraptured by a vr experience but they also don't have powerful gaming pcs or the will to tinker with pc stuff. Not sure if psvr will make headway there. This might be why I've heard more enthusiasm about vr from developers than gamers. It's really tough to make a game that works that isn't a management game or isn't about killing/ stabbing/ shooting/ platforming/ etc so people spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to do that. With vr suddenly that doesn't matter and if you're fatigued making that stuff it's amazing. What's mundane in 2d is magic in vr. People argue and gnash their teeth about Gone Home but there's no question in vr. I think sims are missing from your complaining about motion games as I think they are coming back in a big way with vr and they'll be a traditional gaming experience at its best. The issues of input go away when the game is about flying with a stick or driving with a wheel. FuzzySlippers fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 15:49
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Out of Ammo is one of the better things on the vive, and that's really more of a RTS tower defense map with dungeon keeper possession mechanic thrown in. Also, proper RTSes should be epic in VR. Use grip buttons to zoom/scroll map like you do google maps on a touchscreen, except this time you're pulling the map with your hands and it feels awesome. There's an app that I can't remember the name now, where you do this with earth (zoom, rotate, pan), and it's really rad and also intuitive. FuzzySlippers posted:I'm not sure if absurdly lengthy playtimes will happen even as both devs and users get used to the format. Joke's on you, I've had 8+ hour minecraft sessions 
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Sep 6, 2016 15:52
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quote:Or in Skyrims case you just slash and get no feedback on contact and it feels awful and weightless? ... so skyrim then? 
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Sep 6, 2016 16:30
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The Walrus posted:... so skyrim then? Touche, Also +1 for Blazerush. That game was great on the DK2 and even better in CV1. Just a lot of simple fun overall. Also there have been some updates to the V overlay and Elite works a lot more reliably now. Give it a try if you're in the Beta, and if you're not and have a Rift, Sign Up! Elite + Plex = Space Trucking done right. (Netflix/Amazon support is still WIP. drat Silverlight  Also Minecraft support is coming soon too.
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Sep 6, 2016 18:52
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speaking of skyrim and witcher, is vorpx worth buying yet? $40 is pretty drat steep for me unless there are full config files I can download and just have it mostly "work" with my current rift cv1 drivers.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:20
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Warbird posted:I was chatting with the fellow at VALVe that designed the lenses for the Vive. When asking about some of the things being discussed here, he replied that we are at the Pong era of VR. The Vive and Oculus will not change the world; we don't know how to do anything. The 3rd and later generations will change everything though. We are quite literally learning to walk again. I've often wondered about the lack of abstraction that results from motion controls; I think that the notion of playing "normal" games and applying their conventions in VR is likely a fool's errand. This is the wild west, normal conventions need not apply any longer. This is exactly it.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:20
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Bhodi posted:speaking of skyrim and witcher, is vorpx worth buying yet? $40 is pretty drat steep for me unless there are full config files I can download and just have it mostly "work" with my current rift cv1 drivers. If you can handle the FPS element in VR for Skyrim/Fallout, or have a Virtuix Omni. Outside of that...... Eh can't really say I'd recommend it myself.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:25
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Bhodi posted:speaking of skyrim and witcher, is vorpx worth buying yet? $40 is pretty drat steep for me unless there are full config files I can download and just have it mostly "work" with my current rift cv1 drivers. Check out Tridef, it does what I think is the same thing and has a 14 day trial. I gave it a shot on a couplefew games but after Chronos, Edge of Nowhere, and Elite, i went from being real excited about hacked on 3d stuff like vorpx to just..blah, can't do it.
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Sep 6, 2016 19:26
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Warbird posted:I was chatting with the fellow at VALVe that designed the lenses for the Vive. When asking about some of the things being discussed here, he replied that we are at the Pong era of VR. We owe a lot to the Wii for letting us have the Touch and Vive wands be as good as they are.
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Sep 6, 2016 20:06
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Truga posted:Joke's on you, I've had 8+ hour minecraft sessions You might be one of the new digital warlords when we're all plugged into the cyberpunk future.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:19
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