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Aug 14, 2016 03:51
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| # ? May 13, 2024 15:43 |
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Oh god, there's an article on tor.com with the delicious title "Patrick Rothfuss on Why It Took 15 Years to Write The Name of the Wind". For the readers of this thread, it must be pure catnip. http://www.tor.com/2016/08/15/patrick-rothfuss-name-of-the-wind-writing-process/ A few choice quotes: quote:I had no idea what I was doing in terms of structuring a story. I put words together fine. I could write dialog and scene. I could even make an interesting chapter. But a book is so much more than a series of interesting chapters. And that’s what it took me a loving decade to figure out. quote:The truth is, Denna has always been the hardest character to bring into this book. Part of that is because I started writing it in ’94 when I was, like, a 20-year-old straight white boy. To say that I didn’t understand women is a vast understatement—and also implies that I understand what it’s like to exist as a woman now, which is also not the case. The other part is that, narratively, she’s the one thing that Kvothe can’t opine on in an objective way. It’s so hard. I’ve made mistakes all over, but if I have a genuine failure in this book, it’s my lack of ability to do with Denna as much as I wish I could have. There's more. Just read the article!
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Aug 16, 2016 11:54
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"The one thing he can't opine on in an objective way"? How the gently caress do you opine in an objective way?
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Aug 16, 2016 12:03
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How much is Kvothe playing up his own story? Mythologizing his own self? It is very fair to wonder, How much of this is real? How much of this is true? Unfortunately, any answer that I gave to that would be destructive to the story. Can you say anything on the subject? However people read the book makes me happy, as long as they enjoy themselves. But I will say that one of the reads I find a little irritating is where they think, “Oh, he’s the best at everything. Oh, he’s telling this story where he’s so cool all the time.” Are you reading the same story that I wrote? Because, like, he is constantly making GBS threads the bed. He is full of terrible decisions all the time. If I were gonna go back and mythologize my life, I would leave out so many of the terrible choices that I made.
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Aug 16, 2016 15:21
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When Gene Wolfe dies priority one is getting Rothfuss some Alzabo extract because god drat.
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Aug 16, 2016 16:19
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It really feels like read about this unreliable narrator technique, thought it's a really neat idea and then completely failed at utilizing it.
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Aug 16, 2016 16:25
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If any answer you can give would be destructive to the story, you probably made a mistake. "It's intentionally ambiguous" is an answer. Just say that. Unless... you know, that wasn't the intention. What bugs me is if he pulls off the unreliable narrator badly and "reveals" a bunch of poo poo wasn't true or didn't happen then people are still going to praise him for it as though he did it properly. Because no one seems to understand the distinction between a plot development and a twist. ManlyGrunting posted:When Gene Wolfe dies priority one is getting Rothfuss some Alzabo extract because god drat. 2) Rothfuss said he wanted to understand women better.
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Aug 16, 2016 17:13
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It seems to me that using an unreliable narrator obligates you to tell two stories at once: the story the narrator is telling, and the real story. (Or you could do like in awful book of the month Pale Fire and go even deeper.) Both of which need to be good stories in their own right, so it's not just a dodge for plot holes and bad story-telling. Nothing in Rothfuss's books gives me any clue to the real story - there's nothing to make me thing that I'm not supposed to accept Kvothe's version as the truth. Like when he killed the dragon, if that's not the real story, then what is? He sometimes says that other people got their stories wrong, but that's just telling me that unreliable narrators exist, not using one. Disclamer: I have no literary background so I might be completely off on what I understand "unreliable narrator" means.
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Aug 16, 2016 17:27
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The crux of the issue is the part you noted: The dragon/draccus thing is an example of the problem. Essentially there are two ways to see the story from an unreliable construction: Either Kvothe is dismantling the illusions of his legend for Chronicler, in which case the "unreliable" narrative is all the legends about him and Chronicler is unintentionally unreliable in his awareness of them, or Kvothe's the unreliable one (and thus an "unreliable narrator") and his explanations ought to be doubted. The draccus thing would suggest the former: It wasn't a dragon and it didn't destroy a town and I didn't slay it, I lucked out and got it high and it caused some property damage and dropped dead by chance. You can certainly tell a story about the many legends of some great hero and the dismantling of them with the simple truth, telling effectively a tale of the unreliability of myth and legend and the way people try to make things more spectacular for their own ends. But Rothfuss's statements and other aspects of the books contradict this, suggesting the second case. If Kvothe is not the unreliable one, but is correcting the legends, we must assume he is for the most part telling the truth, unless we have strong reason to believe he's replacing one lie for another (which is not an easy thing to do in a book). With the draccus thing it seems pretty straightforward and self-deprecating, but what then are we supposed to think of the sex ninjas? Is that part reliable or unreliable? If it's unreliable, why was Kvothe so frank about the draccus thing being nothing like people thought? Is he a cheater who got by at the academy through cleverness and people skills or is he actually a genius mage, since his narrative implies both? If Rothfuss is implying through his statements that Kvothe might be making poo poo up, which parts are we supposed to think he's unreliable on*? We have no real guidepost. For anything, really: The source info about the legends often comes from Kvothe himself, so he's both the gatekeeper to and internal controller of the narrative. His speech about all the poo poo he's done is basically the first time a lot of those things are mentioned, and in some cases (so far) the last. We don't know what other people think of them, so Rothfuss could come up with anything and "correct" it or have Kvothe "conceal" the truth about it. How could we know? He's the one both telling us the stories of himself and the one responsible for correcting them. Chronicler is only occasionally able to raise challenges to this stuff and we have no way of knowing whether he's right either, though at least we're supposed to think he's more reliable than Kvothe in that he's got less incentive to make false statements (maybe?). * Note that a better book could, perhaps, toy with this idea of an unreliable narrator who is intentionally talking down his or her accomplishments for some thematic reason, and who must grapple with the difficulty of explaining away certain achievements which are simply too spectacular to make up mundane interpretations for. But one would expect such a narrator to exude an aura of folksiness, simple charm, and humility, in order to lull both the in-universe listener and the reader into doubting the truth and then coming up short when the narrator seems to be obviously manipulative ("Why would he lie that he didn't defeat that guy, and why does the guy seem so afraid of him later?" etc.). Kvothe's cockiness and self-aggrandizement would work fine for a narrator talking up their accomplishments, but Kvothe occasionally goes the other direction and makes it impossible to tell how we're supposed to be reading his statements.
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Aug 16, 2016 17:52
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He made maybe one small mistake which landed him unlimited school funding, and a source of income just because he's so damned clever and awesome, in the second book. What the gently caress is Rothfuss even talking about "him making GBS threads the bed" all the time?
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Aug 16, 2016 18:46
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Mostly on the personal relationship front it seems. Like his dumb antagonizing of Ambrose and whatever the professor's name was, screwing things up with Denna repeatedly, and I'm sure plenty of other examples.
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Aug 16, 2016 19:08
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The real unreliable narrator is Rothfuss himself
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Aug 16, 2016 19:33
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We're getting into deep meta territory now
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Aug 16, 2016 20:48
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At least he seems close to being self-aware in that interview. In a very gentle way he basically says “I can’t write women characters because I’m a massive nerd-boy,” which is something I wish more fantasy writers would do. And I was going to say that he sort of admitted that he doesn’t know how to plot stuff, but the sense of ‘I know how to do it now’ isn’t exactly encouraging. And he has the math and science of his dumb magic system all worked out. Ugh. Priorities. I wish more fantasy writers would start taking the cues for their stories from history and mythology instead of their homebrew Dungeons and Dragons games.
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Aug 17, 2016 01:37
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It's almost like Rothfuss has mistaken the bare minimum amount of tension necessary to qualify as a story for unreliable narration. Not everything goes Kvothe's way all the time, but how Kvothe overcomes those situations or struggles forward is literally the bulk of the novel. It's not interesting and he always ends up getting his way or an approximation of his way in the end so the tension never has a payoff, but it's not an unreliable narrator. The other thing that Rothfuss seems to not understand, and death of the author is important on this one, is that stories are more likely to be accepted as true when it doesn't paint the protagonist as getting their way 100% of the time. At least in Name of the Wind, Kvothe doesn't get the girl. He's constantly struggling with money. He gets barred from the majority of inns as a performer. The dragon was just a big drugged out lizard. And so on. This lends credence to his story being the actual narrative.
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Aug 17, 2016 11:45
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my vagina curls its lips at rothfuss in disgust before firing a glob of acid that dissolves him instantly
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Aug 17, 2016 12:50
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BravestoftheLamps, have you considered collecting your magnum opus into a single pdf and sending it to Rothfuss? Chances are he'd just ignore it, but on the off chance he didn't he seems like the kind of guy that would write a line by line refutation to your criticisms. But in thus doing he'd have no time to ever finish book three and you would have done the literary world a massive favor.
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Aug 18, 2016 17:54
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Atlas Hugged posted:BravestoftheLamps, have you considered collecting your magnum opus into a single pdf and sending it to Rothfuss? Chances are he'd just ignore it, but on the off chance he didn't he seems like the kind of guy that would write a line by line refutation to your criticisms. But in thus doing he'd have no time to ever finish book three and you would have done the literary world a massive favor. Better yet, edit it, publish it on Amazon with a quality Chuck Tingle cover, and I'll have a new coffee table book.
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Aug 18, 2016 18:44
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Atlas Hugged posted:BravestoftheLamps, have you considered collecting your magnum opus into a single pdf and sending it to Rothfuss? Nope. The damage is already done, I'm here to tell the time of death. e: Really , the only advice I'd give to Rothfuss is "don't write any more Kingkiller" and he's already done a fine job of that. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Aug 19, 2016 |
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Aug 18, 2016 18:55
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the only thing anyone should send to rothfuss is a parcel full of goat poo poo
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Aug 19, 2016 07:16
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
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Aug 19, 2016 21:41
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Mock thread losing airspeed, automatic stall warning: Nobody email or otherwise bother Rothfuss with the contents of this thread.
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Aug 21, 2016 00:58
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I haven't finished this thread, but I'm into 2015- is the These Books Suck and Patrick Rothfuss is the Spergiest Loser That Ever was Fat, and isn't even a Writer Platoon still posting? These books have a lot of flaws, Kvothe at least, if not the whole series has misogynistic ideas, and Pat Rothfuss seems like a weirdo, he looks like the bastard child of GRRM and Tormund Giantsbane but jesus gently caress... Rothfuss is a self-made rich doting father and does charity work, you spergs have been spewing the same vitriole on the internet for four or five years. What the christ keeps bringing you presumable fat goonlords back to this thread other than hateful autism and jealousy? I was 18 when some of you jumped on the Rothfuss Sucks train, the Harry Potter films weren't finished and the Iraq War was ongoing. And you lot are still posting?
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Sep 6, 2016 20:56
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vintagepurple posted:I haven't finished this thread, but I'm into 2015- is the These Books Suck and Patrick Rothfuss is the Spergiest Loser That Ever was Fat, and isn't even a Writer Platoon still posting? Source your quotes.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:08
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Why look at that, it's been almost a month since the last update. You can consider this read-through dead until I can be bothered again. No false promises!
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Sep 6, 2016 21:26
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Why look at that, it's been almost a month since the last update. You can consider this read-through dead until I can be bothered again. No false promises! Leaving things 2/3 done. Rothfuss has infected you!
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Sep 6, 2016 21:28
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Ornamented Death posted:Leaving things 2/3 done. Rothfuss has infected you! Performance art at it's finest.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:45
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The same thing that keeps people posting on SA, hate and disappointment. You're young, sprinkle in another decade of disappointments and you'll understand. Also you're gay.
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Sep 7, 2016 00:12
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vintagepurple posted:I was 18 when some of you jumped on the Rothfuss Sucks train, the Harry Potter films weren't finished and the Iraq War was ongoing. And you lot are still posting? I was damaged in that war and hate is the only real emotion I can feel anymore. Rothfuss makes me feel alive.
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Sep 7, 2016 01:06
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vintagepurple posted:I haven't finished this thread, but I'm into 2015- is the These Books Suck and Patrick Rothfuss is the Spergiest Loser That Ever was Fat, and isn't even a Writer Platoon still posting? I'm richer than Rothfuss and he sucks. Edit: Thought of a better one--Good father? Go home and play with your kids! porfiria fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 01:24
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porfiria posted:I'm richer than Rothfuss and he sucks. Have you factored in his wealth after the incredible success of Tak?
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Sep 7, 2016 01:47
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So is the last book ever loving coming out? This series is driving me up a wall I hate Patrick Rothfuss and his stupid red haired prodigy so much but also if I don't find out what happens to him I will literally die.
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Sep 7, 2016 02:12
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Ogmius815 posted:I will literally die. Well, that's happening anyway
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Sep 7, 2016 02:16
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jivjov posted:Well, that's happening anyway What a startling insight.
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Sep 7, 2016 02:22
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jivjov posted:Well, that's happening anyway Did you learn about death today in your day program, dipshit?
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Sep 7, 2016 03:17
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well poo poo I should probably stop loving around with phone games and finish my books so I can do my counter reading
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Sep 7, 2016 13:45
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Did you ever figure out what "critical" means or are you gonna just write some dreadful fannish nonsense? Cause I have this sinking feeling that's what you imagine a "counter reading" to be in this context.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:10
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Did you ever figure out what "critical" means or are you gonna just write some dreadful fannish nonsense? yes
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Sep 7, 2016 14:15
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This thread is literally the worst thread I've ever read. At least the grrm bad thread is about something popular and common'y talked about, that's reasonable. You can't escape Westeros. These books are niche to fantasy geeks and no one you talk to irl will have heard of rothfuss unless they're even bigger a geek than you. Jesus at least focus your undying hate on sentator orrin hatch or kim iong un or someone doing, you know, actual harm. And damaged war poster, I wish the iraqi bullet that took my cousin took you instead, at least he brought good poo poo to the world instead of thousands and thousands of words about paddy rothfuss being fat and lame (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 7, 2016 16:29
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| # ? May 13, 2024 15:43 |
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vintagepurple posted:This thread is literally the worst thread I've ever read. At least the grrm bad thread is about something popular and common'y talked about, that's reasonable. You can't escape Westeros. These books are niche to fantasy geeks and no one you talk to irl will have heard of rothfuss unless they're even bigger a geek than you. Jesus at least focus your undying hate on sentator orrin hatch or kim iong un or someone doing, you know, actual harm. I'm not going to defend the content, but number one on NY Times best seller list is probably not the most obscure thing ever and only underground people know about.
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Sep 7, 2016 16:39
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