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Nobody watches youtube videos specifically adjusted so that they do not embed because they're obviously something we'd all just pass over if they embedded
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Sep 7, 2016 08:26
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Trabisnikof posted:So long as we have active nuclear arms, how worthwhile is any "no first use" pledge? It's diplomatic brownie points at best, which is what I was trying to get at on the last page. A first use of nuclear weapons has no practical strategic value, so if it comes down to a madman with his finger on the button then we're well past the point where policy matters anyway. This is also why it doesn't matter as a deterrent. There's no predictable situation where we'd want to do it, so how can any other state factor it into their decision making process? The only reasonable position is to assume that the US will never use nuclear weapons in an offensive capacity.
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Sep 7, 2016 08:29
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Paradoxish posted:It's diplomatic brownie points at best, which is what I was trying to get at on the last page. A first use of nuclear weapons has no practical strategic value, so if it comes down to a madman with his finger on the button then we're well past the point where policy matters anyway. This is also why it doesn't matter as a deterrent. There's no predictable situation where we'd want to do it, so how can any other state factor it into their decision making process? The only reasonable position is to assume that the US will never use nuclear weapons in an offensive capacity.
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Sep 7, 2016 08:34
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Nessus posted:I could see an argument that it would make non nuclear but mega-damaging shenanigans seem more attractive. That was the argument I was making, though I'm pretty sure I lost that one 
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Sep 7, 2016 08:41
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Cat Army 
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The Iron Rose posted:That was the argument I was making, though I'm pretty sure I lost that one You also have the issue where we seem to be both getting greedy and wasteful, which conceals a lot of the positive effects our military presence has on the global situation. For instance you mention how thanks, primarily, to the US Navy, there really is not piracy on a global level at the moment, which has not always historically been the case. People aren't aware of that, they're aware of the however-many aircraft carriers and the stupid-rear end plane which is getting trillions of dollars while the roads and bridges rot, the young people are unemployed and indebted, and there is very little indication that the people supporting the military have any interest in rectifying this. It seems more plausible that the military will be turned on the starving and unemployed when eventually they rise up, and that kind of trumps any abstract benefits about open shipping lanes for the people who are paying the bills on the system. There is also the question of: OK: so, the nuclear deterrent, the Navy, and a few other things accomplish positive goals for the world. Why are we spending our money on other things? Granted that we would want to maintain our edge; how does the F-35 maintain that edge? This is the rot of empire. Probably you're in no position to do much about it, and none of us are, but that's where this pressure on the left is coming from.
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Sep 7, 2016 09:09
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So how many pages did you guys spend arguing with what goons who read too much telesurv and RT think Hillary Clinton is like irl
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Sep 7, 2016 12:11
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Seems that not endorsing Trump was not enough for the Dallas Morning News - they now endorse Hillary.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:27
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Question: Having a discussion about BLM and Kaep with my fellow white coworkers. What is the best thing to say in response to black on black crime rates?
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Sep 7, 2016 12:35
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Mr Hootington posted:Question: Having a discussion about BLM and Kaep with my fellow white coworkers. What is the best thing to say in response to black on black crime rates? What's to say? Black people commit violence on other black people disproportionately because (i) they are more likely to be poor, poorly-educated, and have limited opportunities and (ii) they have been ghettoised into close proximity with each other by racist civic planning policies and white urban flight. It's not some inherent failing of the bloodthirsty Negro
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Sep 7, 2016 12:42
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Lightning Knight posted:Too bad for you that you can't enforce the status quo forever. You act like what comes after American hegemony is something other than a bunch of countries, including Russia and China, unabashedly dicking around with other countries and starting their own proxy wars. If you had a convincing argument that America abandoning its hegemony would lead to enlightened global self-determination, I'd listen, but since you don't, I'll stick with the less malevolent status quo.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:43
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Mr Hootington posted:Question: Having a discussion about BLM and Kaep with my fellow white coworkers. What is the best thing to say in response to black on black crime rates? White people are also more likely to be killed by white people. Also those crimes are generally not committed by people who swore an oath to protect the citizens they are murdering with impunity
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Sep 7, 2016 12:45
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Mr Hootington posted:Question: Having a discussion about BLM and Kaep with my fellow white coworkers. What is the best thing to say in response to black on black crime rates? 85+% of white murders are by, you guessed it, white people! Because the most likely person to kill you is someone that knows you and the United States is still super segregated
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Sep 7, 2016 12:46
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Eschers Basement posted:You act like what comes after American hegemony is something other than a bunch of countries, including Russia and China, unabashedly dicking around with other countries and starting their own proxy wars. If you had a convincing argument that America abandoning its hegemony would lead to enlightened global self-determination, I'd listen, but since you don't, I'll stick with the less malevolent status quo. Because the US has a such stellar track record of not dicking around with other countries and starting their own proxy wars.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:47
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The Iron Rose might just be the worst person I've ever seen.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:48
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Mr Hootington posted:Question: Having a discussion about BLM and Kaep with my fellow white coworkers. What is the best thing to say in response to black on black crime rates? The only thing Kaep can do is to use his fame to draw attention to an issue. Does it help to draw attention to black on black crime? Nope- the Republicans and the media talk about it a bunch, but that hasn't done anything. Does it help to draw attention to police violence? Absolutely - we've spent decades militarizing and arming cops without thinking about it, and Ferguson and BLM are starting conversations about it that have been long overdue.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:50
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WampaLord posted:The Iron Rose might just be the worst person I've ever seen.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:50
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Thanks guys. That is the stuff I said and wants to make sure I had the bases covered. I'll have to reiterate it at break with actual numbers.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:51
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Andrast posted:Because the US has a such stellar track record of not dicking around with other countries and starting their own proxy wars. You're right - because the US fucks up and does immoral things, we shouldn't work to make our hegemony as moral as possible, we should simply abandon all foreign entanglements and let Russia and China do as they please. I'm absolutely sure that is the correct moral answer, and not just being a pissy edge lord.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:53
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FactsAreUseless posted:She is severely mentally ill, which is not a slight against those suffering from severe mental illnesses, but it is apparent from her posts that she has a very hard time seeing the world in a healthy way. Not even a fun mental illness
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Sep 7, 2016 12:57
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Note that the countries that the United States stuck its dick in and started proxy wars actually includes both China and Russia
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Sep 7, 2016 12:57
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canepazzo posted:Seems that not endorsing Trump was not enough for the Dallas Morning News - they now endorse Hillary. So yeah, be on the lookout for flying pigs. rscott posted:85+% of white murders are by, you guessed it, white people! Because the most likely person to kill you is someone that knows you and the United States is still super segregated This. Don't let them pretend that intraracial violence is some unique phenomenon to the black population.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:01
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Mr Hootington posted:Thanks guys. That is the stuff I said and wants to make sure I had the bases covered. I'll have to reiterate it at break with actual numbers. Even aside from the numbers, "what about black on black crime" in response to "maybe cops should stop killing black people" is gross. It's misdirection. If you bring your car into the shop with a flat tire, and the mechanic is like "but what about your bad alternator," the doesn't mean your flat tire should be ignored until the alternator is fixed. People are capable of addressing more than one bad thing at a time. "Other thing is also bad, guess we can't do anything" is a bullshit approach. (Of course, black people murdering other black people, just like white people murdering other white people, is a function of gun proliferation, amongst other things, and that's probably not a can of worms worth opening.)
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Sep 7, 2016 13:02
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FactsAreUseless posted:She is severely mentally ill, which is not a slight against those suffering from severe mental illnesses, but it is apparent from her posts that she has a very hard time seeing the world in a healthy way. pretty sure she's just an rear end in a top hat tbh
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Sep 7, 2016 13:04
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canepazzo posted:Seems that not endorsing Trump was not enough for the Dallas Morning News - they now endorse Hillary. It's really weird to see a Republican leaning publication be like 'C'mon, you assholes, the investigations cleared her and this poo poo against her is bananas'.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:05
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FairGame posted:Even aside from the numbers, "what about black on black crime" in response to "maybe cops should stop killing black people" is gross. This really. The people who try to bring arguments like this don't really care about either problem. They just want to distract from whatever the other is speaking of so that nothing gets done and want to keep diving into stereotypes to do it.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:08
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Night10194 posted:It's really weird to see a Republican leaning publication be like 'C'mon, you assholes, the investigations cleared her and this poo poo against her is bananas'. not surprising at all hillary is more to the right than trump is
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Sep 7, 2016 13:10
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botany posted:pretty sure she's just an rear end in a top hat tbh if you're a big enough of an rear end in a top hat, eventually it falls under a few classifications in the DSM
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Sep 7, 2016 13:12
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FactsAreUseless posted:She is severely mentally ill, which is not a slight against those suffering from severe mental illnesses, but it is apparent from her posts that she has a very hard time seeing the world in a healthy way. wait what. well that's just rude. I guess "our political opponents are mentally ill!" thing belongs on both sides of the aisle. I guess if you can't call me a racist (my family's from the middle east yo) that's about the only thing that's left, but like, have some pride man. but i like how your only resort to ~~a minority~~ disagreeing with you is to call them mentally ill 
The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 13:13
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FairGame posted:Even aside from the numbers, "what about black on black crime" in response to "maybe cops should stop killing black people" is gross. Okay, but that's an awful analogy. Your vehicle won't even start if you don't fix that alternator.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:13
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FairGame posted:Even aside from the numbers, "what about black on black crime" in response to "maybe cops should stop killing black people" is gross. Yes it is, but I am a white man talking to white people about issues that are seen has "minority problems" and have to explain why what other white people are saying is wrong and how our view as white people is skewed. Guns is not an angle I can go at most of the time.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:31
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Mr Hootington posted:Yes it is, but I am a white man talking to white people about issues that are seen has "minority problems" and have to explain why what other white people are saying is wrong and how our view as white people is skewed. Guns is not an angle I can go at most of the time. The fact that you're not getting shouted down is amazing in itself.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:34
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smoke sumthin bitch posted:not surprising at all hillary is more to the right than trump is I can think of no issue, with the possible exception of free trade, where Trump is more to the left of Clinton. Do you care to enlighten me?
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Sep 7, 2016 13:37
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Subvisual Haze posted:Okay, but that's an awful analogy. Your vehicle won't even start if you don't fix that alternator. And you also won't go anywhere (far) with a flat tire. They're both problems that need fixing, the point is that you shouldn't point at one of the problems as a reason to do nothing at all about the other.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:38
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I think it was a joke
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Sep 7, 2016 13:38
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greatn posted:I think it was a joke It can be hard to tell in this thread. 
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Sep 7, 2016 13:49
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Mr Hootington posted:Yes it is, but I am a white man talking to white people about issues that are seen has "minority problems" and have to explain why what other white people are saying is wrong and how our view as white people is skewed. Guns is not an angle I can go at most of the time. You're just the token "idiot LIEberal" to those people. There is no point in arguing with them. Better to wait for them to die.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:00
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fits my needs posted:You're just the token "idiot LIEberal" to those people. There is no point in arguing with them. Better to wait for them to die. really inspirational stuff here
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Sep 7, 2016 14:11
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Mr Hootington posted:Question: Having a discussion about BLM and Kaep with my fellow white coworkers. What is the best thing to say in response to black on black crime rates? My usual response is to ask, "Give me a solution that does not involve more policing." Most of the time it ends up with them stumbling because they're well aware the answer is "spend more money on rebuilding the schools" and such. Also pointing out it isn't unique to blacks usually makes them freeze.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:15
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Mr Hootington posted:Yes it is, but I am a white man talking to white people about issues that are seen has "minority problems" and have to explain why what other white people are saying is wrong and how our view as white people is skewed. Guns is not an angle I can go at most of the time. Other response: "Are you saying it's okay for cops to kill black people as long as black-on-black crime is high?"
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Sep 7, 2016 14:19
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TIR is mostly right about all this, and I really only disagree with her about the Syria stuff. I think people that are mad about the red line thing overvalue projecting manliness than smart policy. Seriously though, what happens next? Assad gasses people, then where do we go? I'm reminded of this statement. We intervened in and occupied Iraq, and it was an expensive disaster. We intervened in Libya, which went well, but the country is now a disaster. We did neither in Syria, and the country is now a disaster. Like what comes next? Since you believe we should have responded to Assad's chemical attacks, how should we have responded and how committed to regime change and nation building should we have been? I guess I just wonder what the least bad option is, if you think it's something other than what we did.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:23
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