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God drat.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:26
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as an 84-er I
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Sep 7, 2016 18:27
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Good thread v entertaining for someone with no interest in this video game
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Sep 7, 2016 18:30
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The way you want a game company to thrive is to endlessly pressure them towards making their game an exclusionary, unfriendly gauntlet of "but, Realism! :iamafag:"
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Sep 7, 2016 18:45
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quote:I also have a busy real life and instant transfer would clearly save me time.... But I voted for the delay for two reasons: Please guys tell me this dude is joking, I really need to hear that he is joking also this feature is supposed to be a convenience for spur-of-the-moment things like "oooh I randomly found a nice pristine ring, let's have my mining ship delivered to the nearest station", and they want to make it a "you have to push the ship by being at the current storage point to whatever destination" that requires planning, time and is frankly utterly useless. If I am at the starting place, and then have to manually fly another ship to the delivery place anyways, why in the hell wouldn't I just get into the ship and do the jumps myself. Unless it's a 10ly range FdL or I just want to relocate all my ships there or something, but even then it'd still be a loving pain in the rear end Edit: I thought I saw a good post and was about to quote it here. Lo, it was by Paramemetic. Goons are the only sane people there, and that is wrong in so many ways TorakFade fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 18:46
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Ha, meltdowns a plenty ITT. Slap in the face Interesting that the devs are coming around to my opinion. That the FSD grade becomes pointless if transfers are instant is the primary thing I feel. Probably Braben didn't like it either. Seriously though, with so much other massive game balance issues that need to be made clear to devs, I'm not understanding why goons are so upset over a change to a relatively minor feature that previously did not exist. My take: 1) Can just be rowed back on and made instant if it turns out that it is the worst idea evar. Harder to do it other way around. 2) FSD range vs combat capabilities remains a thing 3) Creates a mechanic that has room for expansion (e.g. pay more for faster transfer, allow players to deliver ships, etc) 4) Being at the station and seeing your own ship warp in would be cool! Also, I heard that Elite is not EVE, cool story bruh
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Sep 7, 2016 19:08
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You do understand the difference between "waiting and not being able to do anything" and "waiting and still having an entire game to play" right? Edit: We cannot build the game based on housewives's needs, this excuse is getting old now.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:10
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Instead of a poll, they should just implement transfers but with a dialogue box where the player chooses instant or delayed (and they both cost the same) then after a month, remove the least used option. 
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Sep 7, 2016 19:13
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TorakFade posted:Please guys tell me this dude is joking, I really need to hear that he is joking As has been said numerous times. Sitting in you escape pod doing nothing is not game play. Doing combat, trading, missions while your ship is in transit is game play.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:14
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oRGy posted:2) FSD range vs combat capabilities remains a thing Yes it remains a thing. A bad thing. That has literally never been good design and keeping it is not a point in favor of transport delays. FSDs will still be important for the job where it is supposed to be - hauling things. For a Freighter an FSD is it's multicannon. It's cargo bay is it's laser. It's one of the freighters "weapons" - the piece of equipment that lets it do it's job better. Freighters don't care about getting the biggest plasma cannon (they don't need it to do their job) why should a combat ship have to care about FSDs (for combat jobs that are next to a station at least - combat missions in the fringes, should they ever happen, would still require good jumping even with instant transport to stations)?
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Sep 7, 2016 19:15
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Why is there no option for the delivery company loving up and sending my ship to another player, including ownership papers so that not only i do lose it but he gets its for free? WHy cant i not instead of a cutter be presented with my new sidewinder cause they made a mistake? What do you mean, the company i pay for transfer cannot declare bancruptcy halfway through with the ceo bailing to space mexico in my conda? My immersion is taking heat damage right now, and im all out of sinks.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:18
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DatonKallandor posted:Yes it remains a thing. A bad thing. That has literally never been good design and keeping it is not a point in favor of transport delays. Elite : Casual (Babysitters Edition)
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Sep 7, 2016 19:19
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Main Paineframe posted:A lot of them really believe in this "it's the journey, not the destination" horseshit. TBF this is true because Elite Dangerous has no destinations except for gimmicks like Sag A* or Corvette The Biggest Space Ship That doesn't excuse making the journey poo poo though, like say waiting half an hour for your ship to arrive.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:19
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DatonKallandor posted:Yes it remains a thing. A bad thing. That has literally never been good design and keeping it is not a point in favor of transport delays. Said it before and I'll say it again: Elite is has basically not been balanced at all. The only reason nobody notices is because most of the game is solo and because most competition with other players takes the form of four tricked out deathbricks interdicting a Cobra.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:22
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Not sure I follow... Why should a combat ship have to care about FSDs? Because the owner wants to be able to jump further in it? Why exactly is it terrible game design? Tell you what is terrible game design - having freighter class ships (Type 7/9) never used because combat ships are better in every respect, including cargo capacity. This is a side effect of having cargo space entirely modular. Good design would be having cargo space as a minimum defined amount for each ship, cargo modules offering additional capacity. Ship prices also make no sense in general... I could literally write a book about the terrible game design decisions in Elite, but I don't think ship transfers involving a delay is one of them. Might be, but I doubt it. Also, what the poster above said.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:25
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Fsd grade is already pointless in that anything less than the biggest A class fsd you can fit is pointless. If you have the money there's no reason at all to ever have an undersized or underclassed fsd - weight saving is mostly for jump range so no concern on that, power usage is very small... It's the one part of your ship where it never makes sense to compromise, whatever the role your ship has.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:27
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In a perfect world they're refactor FSD's to make getting anything other than an A-rated drive a compelling option. I'm not sure what that would look like but yeah rolling with anything other than the largest A-rated drive is foolish.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:30
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I'm not concerned with transferring within the bubble. I don't want people running to places like Jaques with fast ships while there's a CG and then instantly bringing in their FDLs and killing everyone. Some ships should be good at traversing large parts of space, and some should be bad at it. If we have instant transfer no matter the distance, suddenly all ships are equally good at getting to the other side of the galaxy. No thanks.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:31
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the brown sea is coming from inside the thread
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Sep 7, 2016 19:32
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oRGy posted:Not sure I follow... Why should a combat ship have to care about FSDs? Because the owner wants to be able to jump further in it? Why exactly is it terrible game design? There's no problem with being able to get good range on a combat ship, that's my point - because jump range isn't tied into combat at all. Giving combat ships inherently bad range isn't an interesting trade-off because the jump range is only relevant for non-combat activities (in the absence of non-inhabited space combat missions) - it's just an inconvienence. I'm saying if the owner of a combat ship wants to be able to jump further in a combat ship, let him - don't penalize him based on his choice of fun (combat). Nostalgia4Infinity posted:In a perfect world they're refactor FSD's to make getting anything other than an A-rated drive a compelling option. I'm not sure what that would look like but yeah rolling with anything other than the largest A-rated drive is foolish. I'd probably do something atmosphere/near-surface related with it but they can't really because that poo poo is optional. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 19:35
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I voted, although it's sounding at this point like it's doomed to be a feature that I will never have a reason to use.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:38
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oRGy posted:Not sure I follow... Why should a combat ship have to care about FSDs? Because the owner wants to be able to jump further in it? Why exactly is it terrible game design? Because balance by tedium is officially the dumbest thing I've ever heard regarding game design. Low jump range for combat ships is one of the dumbest design decisions both logical and lore. These ships are the ones you expect to move around quite quickly. The game design reason given by the devs was so they couldn't chase trade ships in hyperspace, which is literally a thing no one does because those ships are made of paper and explode long before their fsd charges. Goes triple for how the average player fits them, anti tanked. Edit: If it were up to me, every ship would get a flat +5 to their jump ranges. Moving around is incredibly boring as it is. I don't think the ~early game~ inability to get anywhere is worth preserving. Chrysophylax fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 19:38
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:the brown sea is coming from inside the thread How can it be stopped?
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Sep 7, 2016 19:39
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CapnBry posted:So what ever happened with the "Give me drugs for the secret" guy and the "Give me brandy for the secret" guy? Where did they reveal their secret? Do they post on the forums? Is it sent in game somewhere? Was it sent only to a single person in a direct message? Am I supposed to find it on page 53 line 7 word 3 of my game manual? Why do they make a community event "Hey we're all on this awesome fun search for clues and we need the community to all pitch in to progress the story!" and then when the goal is reached there is just silence. It is like getting a quest in a traditional RPG and when you come back with 20x kobold ears off of 97x kobolds, the quest-giver takes your items and then just stands there with as blank a stare as if nothing preceded this moment. They never revealed the secret, actually, because the "secret" was the crashed alien space ship and once it was found  basically shrugged and said "gently caress it" and let the players run with it, forgetting to actually deliver the CG secrets. There was a thread on it in the brown sea where a guy was basically complaining that they should have followed through regardless, despite the fact that players figured out the area and found the ship via zerg rush before the final coordinates were released via CG.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:41
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LCL-Dead posted:They never revealed the secret, actually, because the "secret" was the crashed alien space ship and once it was found And now it's too late because there have been in- and out-of-game news about the alien ship. The cat is out of the bag and steadfastly refuses to get stuffed in again.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:44
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oRGy posted:Not sure I follow... Why should a combat ship have to care about FSDs? Because the owner wants to be able to jump further in it? Why exactly is it terrible game design? The best thing about the Type 7 is that the Python holds more and lands on Med pads making the T7 totally useless. Never mind that the Clipper does everything the T7 does but much better for an extra 5mil. All dedicated hauling ships in ED are death traps and there is zero reason to fly the over multirole ships.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:47
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Chrysophylax posted:Because balance by tedium is officially the dumbest thing I've ever heard regarding game design. Dude, basically all of the balance for combat ships is centered around having a short jump range. Multirole ships only exist because there's a need to compromise between combat ability and exploration/cargo hauling ability. You don't want to wander too far into dangerous territory without having at least a little bit of power to fight back, right? At the same time, you give up long-range travel ability to be king of the hill in pure combat. So players get to choose the kind of ship they want based on their wants and needs in the game - there is no one build that is good for everybody, so we see a lot of people in different ships doing different things. Fast forward to the not-so-distant future, after FDev implemented the option to teleport ships across the bubble at will. The shipping lanes are devoid of Cobras now - everybody who isn't itching for a fight is in an Asp or Anaconda fitted out for long-range travel - that's the fastest way to get anywhere, and they don't need to worry about combat ability, so why not? The occasional Vulture or Corvette is viewed with extreme suspicion and treated as a pirate, or, worse, a bloodthirsty murderer because it's obvious that the commander flying it specifically flew there in a different ship and pulled out their biggest, baddest combat ship in an area populated by commanders going to the new CG. There's no reason they would be there in such a ship otherwise - it doesn't make any sense to fly one of them across interstellar space, after all! So nobody flies a third of the ships in the game because they're now useless. Nobody flies the weird, wacky loadouts that are viable today because to do anything except THE BEST combat ship, THE BEST exploration ship, or THE BEST trade ship means you're deliberately giving up that capability for nothing in return. 'A large chunk' - The large chunk of the game we literally sit and watch the hyperspace (loading) screen, hearing the exact same sounds and the same effects while doing absolutely nothing. If that delay meant we couldn't do something else (which I don't think the devs have said and would be insane to do - but even then you could at least log out and do something in real life while the timer ticks over) then you have a point. If that delay didn't enhance strategy and role-playing, then you'd have a point. But to get this little bit of convenience, you're suggesting we give up the gameplay balance that makes about a third of the ships in the game viable.
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Sep 7, 2016 19:53
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:There's people asking if ships in transit can be pirated/destroyed Too bad for them, adding a timer is 'easy' because it is still the same mechanics at work within the game itself, you just have to wait for ~reasons~ like Frontier is going to PowerPlay it up about ship transfers
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Sep 7, 2016 19:59
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I want it instant. Sometimes I go into a system and see there are Conflict Zones there and I want to participate in the war. I don't want to fly my long range ship all the way back to home, grab my warship and then basically spend 2 hours to get to the conflict zone when it only took me 15 minutes to grab my ship in the first place. If it was a 5 minute flat delay, fine. That's acceptable. The penalty is the cost it will be to get the ship transferred across the bubble. Players don't know the prices yet. They probably saw the prices in the livestream and went "YEP THATS FINAL EVEN WHEN FDEV SAID IT WASN'T"
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Sep 7, 2016 20:07
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Chrysophylax posted:Dude, basically all of the balance for combat ships is centered around having a short jump range. Multirole ships only exist because there's a need to compromise between combat ability and exploration/cargo hauling ability. You don't want to wander too far into dangerous territory without having at least a little bit of power to fight back, right? At the same time, you give up long-range travel ability to be king of the hill in pure combat. This is incredibly funny, you do know Frontier is planning on adding new FTL-drives with longer range, making this entire balance-by-range diatribe completely pointless? Besides, at least in my case I find this kind of balance stifling. There are tons of ships I've tried out of curiosity, but would never fly because of their low jump-range. Me modding an Imperial Cutter into a long-range Explorator Cruiser was basically me giving Frontier the double-middlefinger for this bullshit. Luckily your future will never come to pass if Frontier pulls through with their super-FTLs. Alternatively, Frontier could also just add a couple extra ly to every ship's range, that would be nice. But since the crazy people in Frontier-land seem to be winning, I feel just glad that I'm out there in space and not imprisoned in the same part of the galaxy with those clowns.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:10
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Chrysophylax posted:
What are these weird and wacky loadouts you speak of? Can you give me an example?
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Sep 7, 2016 20:11
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So.. A lot of the arguments against instant transfer used words like "simulation" and "immersion" to sway the reader. This thread though, haha.. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/286997-I-was-expecting-space-flight-operation-to-be-more-procedural
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Sep 7, 2016 20:12
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posted:
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Chrysophylax posted:Dude, basically all of the balance for combat ships is centered around having a short jump range. Multirole ships only exist because there's a need to compromise between combat ability and exploration/cargo hauling ability. You don't want to wander too far into dangerous territory without having at least a little bit of power to fight back, right? At the same time, you give up long-range travel ability to be king of the hill in pure combat. Please stop being reasonable in this thread. The current thread meta is "give me what I want because I don't understand game design but think I do".
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Sep 7, 2016 20:13
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I want to get taken on a ride too
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Sep 7, 2016 20:15
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Knifegrab posted:Please stop being reasonable in this thread. The current thread meta is "give me what I want because I don't understand game design but think I do". He is reasonable, even if his arguments are faulty. You on the other hand, are the dumbest troll ever
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Sep 7, 2016 20:16
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I wish they just made all ships free, and eliminated open all together. Its kind of ridiculous they expect players to play the game in order to progress. Just give me everything from the get go.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:17
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Knifegrab posted:I wish they just made all ships free, and eliminated open all together. Its kind of ridiculous they expect players to play the game in order to progress. Just give me everything from the get go. Please explain how starting ED with 10 billion and all ranks would make ED less enjoyable.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:18
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FileNotFound posted:Please explain how starting ED with 10 billion and all ranks would make ED less enjoyable. It wouldn't thats my point.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:19
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LCL-Dead posted:They never revealed the secret, actually, because the "secret" was the crashed alien space ship and once it was found I just figure if there's something important you guys will tell me.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:20
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Knifegrab posted:I wish they just made all ships free, and eliminated open all together. Its kind of ridiculous they expect players to play the game in order to progress. Just give me everything from the get go. >yawn Go away Knifegrab you're most low-effort troll in Games which is saying something.
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Sep 7, 2016 20:20
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