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Trabisnikof posted:They did prepare answers. If they did, they didn't spend very much time on them. The initial response was disjointed and unclear. A better answer would have been her immediately saying what she eventually did: "if elected, Bill and I will sever direct involvement with the CGI."
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Sep 7, 2016 22:35
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Trabisnikof posted:They did prepare answers. The problem is that this year, the media will give any anti-Clinton story credit. You have idiots blabbing about Saudi Arabia, Chelsea, and the AP "just asking questions" about pay-to-play with holocaust survivors. Pretty much, the entire point is no matter what the answer acutally is, the press has the power to keep the endless cycle of 'well but it LOOKS shady, doesn't it? People THINK it's shady so we have to keep reporting on how shady this LOOKS' going. She's handled it perfectly well so far, there have been now multiple looks into it, they've found nothing at all, she keeps saying 'I haven't done anything and these investigations back me up, you have zero proof of anything' but that gets shut down by 'yea but...optics...' and you can't really fight that. It's almost like the almost exact same people who once told her to get in the kitchen and blamed her for her husband getting his dick sucked just have a thing against her or something.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:36
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I wish "If Hillary Clinton Isn't A Criminal Then Why Do I Keep Insisting She Is?" didn't perfectly sum it up but welp.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:38
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Hillary Clinton is, for good or for ill, immensely pragmatic. She doesn't re-fight battles once she's won them, and once she's past a stepping-stone she doesn't go back and polish it. Right now she's trying to be president. The only thing she needs from any of us right now to pursue that goal is our vote, and she either has yours or she doesn't. If she has your vote, apologizing isn't going to let you vote twice. If she doesn't, odds are there's something bigger than The Emails holding you back. You don't like that she didn't utter the exact incantation you had in mind on this issue or that, you don't like that she was around to be tainted by the bad political trends in the 90s and the 00s, you don't like that republicans spent twenty-five years making sure you don't like her, well, is it costing her your vote? If no then shut up, if yes then there's a very good chance you'd never vote for her no matter what. You guys are cranky she's not laser-focused on winning you over right now? That's demographics. The farty white IT guy vote is locked down pretty early in this country and there are bigger fish to fry right now. There are votes to be gained with Latinos, with Independents, with Never-Trumpers. Just sit this out for a while. You're middle-class white guys. You'll be the center of attention again on November 9th, I promise.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:38
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Majorian posted:If they did, they didn't spend very much time on them. The initial response was disjointed and unclear. A better answer would have been her immediately saying what she eventually did: "if elected, Bill and I will sever direct involvement with the CGI." Hillary can't say anything without people flipping the gently caress out though, there's currently a big hulabaloo because she coughed. For some reason only she warrants this electron-microscope treatment.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:40
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Pretty much, the entire point is no matter what the answer acutally is, the press has the power to keep the endless cycle of 'well but it LOOKS shady, doesn't it? People THINK it's shady so we have to keep reporting on how shady this LOOKS' going. They can try, but a good answer helps the story fade much more quickly than a bad one. Have a look at the Benghazi hearings. Clinton absolutely squashed Trey Gowdy's ridiculous little witch hunt, and guess what? Not much of a story anymore, beyond the usual alt-right idiocy. Now compare that to her disjointed, shifting response on the emails non-scandal. What should have been a non-issue ended up feeding on itself because Clinton badly flubbed her answer, and continued to flub it for months. Yinlock posted:Hillary can't say anything without people flipping the gently caress out though, there's currently a big hulabaloo because she coughed. There's definitely a double standard, and a big part of it is because she had the absolute temerity to be born without a y-chromosome. But the perception of the Clintons as triangulating, underhanded pols isn't exactly a new one. While it's mostly unfair, there have been times in which neither of them helped their case all that much. And that's kind of my central point through this whole discussion. The Clintons are human; they make unforced, self-defeating errors from time to time. It doesn't do her campaign any good for the zoux/A Winner Is Jew crowd to keep shrieking when somebody brings up a legitimate criticism of her campaign. Majorian fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 22:40
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Majorian posted:Clinton absolutely squashed Trey Gowdy's ridiculous little witch hunt, and guess what? Not much of a story anymore, beyond the usual alt-right idiocy. You are wrong
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Sep 7, 2016 22:41
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Majorian posted:Well, they probably should have expected to. This is Hillary Clinton we're talking about. She's no political neophyte. Really though what it all comes down to is that she made the first mistake when she agreed to be Hillary Clinton. A different name would have avoided all of these 'Scandals'.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:42
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Majorian posted:They can try, but a good answer helps the story fade much more quickly than a bad one. Have a look at the Benghazi hearings. Clinton absolutely squashed Trey Gowdy's ridiculous little witch hunt, and guess what? Not much of a story anymore, beyond the usual alt-right idiocy. Now compare that to her disjointed, shifting response on the emails non-scandal. What should have been a non-issue ended up feeding on itself because Clinton badly flubbed her answer, and continued to flub it for months. how can you be so opinionated while living in such a bubble if you think Benghazi doesn't get brought up by mainstream republicans plenty? Yea it's not as much a thing, but half the 'emails non-scandal' is based around 'WHAT DID SHE SAY ABOUT BENGHAZI?!'
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Sep 7, 2016 22:43
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theflyingorc posted:You are wrong Where in the mainstream media is that story still being loudly trumpeted, outside of a few scattered instances? Taerkar posted:Really though what it all comes down to is that she made the first mistake when she agreed to be Hillary Clinton. A different name would have avoided all of these 'Scandals'. Longtime politician has to deal with decades of baggage in order to be elected president, news at 11.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:44
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Tatum Girlparts posted:how can you be so opinionated while living in such a bubble if you think Benghazi doesn't get brought up by mainstream republicans plenty? Yea it's not as much a thing, but half the 'emails non-scandal' is based around 'WHAT DID SHE SAY ABOUT BENGHAZI?!' I was mainly talking about the mainstream media and the stories they pick up, not what Trump surrogates blurble out on the stump.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:47
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The grotesque thing to me isn't so much that they're grilling  it's that it seems like Donald Trump just keeps on getting a pass for all this bullshit. It's like the reductio ad absurdium for "it's OK if you're a Republican." The Republicans could run a literal yellow dog and they'd get treated with deference and respect. But I guess that's what all that liberal media yelling was for, to accomplish this goal.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:49
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Majorian posted:I was mainly talking about the mainstream media and the stories they pick up, not what Trump surrogates blurble out on the stump. What counts as mainstream media?
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Sep 7, 2016 22:50
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Majorian posted:Yeah, actually, it was. She was Secretary of State. Keeping the coalition functioning and doing what it's supposed to do was part of her job. By all accounts she did. The second Libyan civil war, the one that came after the relative calm after the first civil war which was what we intervened in didn't start until 2014... more than a year after she left the state department. Or is that somehow her fault as well? Majorian posted:It's nice that you think she "worked hard" on it, but in reality that doesn't enter into it. What does matter is whether or not the U.S. was prepared for the aftermath of the intervention. It wasn't. That is partially Clinton's fault. It's fair to say we weren't prepared for the second civil war. The one that happened while Clinton wasn't SoS. That would also be the tribal issues Obama was talking about in that interview. Majorian posted:Which is what I said. I don't know why you think I said she was the key factor. I haven't said that though. I'm calling bullshit on your assertion that she was the tiebreaker when that's only the opinion of Gates. I've agreed with you that she was a factor, even a prominent one in the intervention given that putting together the coilition that Obama wanted was her job. Majorian posted:I think the actual intervention into Libya was appropriate - I've actually said that in this very thread, a couple pages ago. The problem stems from inadequate preparation for the aftermath, and the resulting mission drift. Both things the state department has way less control over than the president or DoD. Majorian posted:Yes, that's clearly what I'm saying. Only It is.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:51
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Majorian posted:Where in the mainstream media is that story still being loudly trumpeted, outside of a few scattered instances? Trey Gowdy's little witch hunt is what created the emailghazi. Vilerat's mom spoke at the RNC. That poo poo isn't buried. oh yeah there's a new CNN article that brings up Benghazi out today http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/politics/benghazi-emails-hillary-clinton/
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Sep 7, 2016 22:51
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Darren Seals. 29-Year-Old Protest Leader Found Shot Dead in Burning Car in St. Louis. http://abcnews.go.com/US/29-year-protest-leader-found-dead-burning-car/story?id=41915891 I haven't seen this posted yet. Anyone know more about it? I'm sure the cops are gonna look real hard for the murderer.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:51
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Majorian posted:I was mainly talking about the mainstream media and the stories they pick up, not what Trump surrogates blurble out on the stump. so am I dude, the people who still bring it up are plenty 'mainstream'. Like, again the entire root of this 'we're just asking questions, it LOOKS bad you see' was partially made up by 'what did your emails say about Benghazi?!'
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Sep 7, 2016 22:52
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Hillary Clinton is, for good or for ill, immensely pragmatic. She doesn't re-fight battles once she's won them, and once she's past a stepping-stone she doesn't go back and polish it. Right now she's trying to be president. The only thing she needs from any of us right now to pursue that goal is our vote, and she either has yours or she doesn't. But... But... She's a secret Republican! 
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Sep 7, 2016 22:53
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Taerkar posted:Really though what it all comes down to is that she made the first mistake when she agreed to be Hillary Clinton. A different name would have avoided all of these 'Scandals'. Ironic, considering she took the name Clinton to end the scandal as to why she didn't take her husband's name when they got married.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:53
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The mainstream media (esp. print) currently has a ton of Anti-Trump stories, they're just gaining no traction because everyone with a brain knows he's a piece of poo poo and he's not providing particularly pungent fresh ammo
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Sep 7, 2016 22:55
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Lightning Knight posted:But... But... She's a secret Republican! Smashing a Republican in the temple with a heel doesn't make one a Republican no matter how much blood gets on the heel.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:56
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like the Dallas Morning News just ran both an anti-Trump and Clinton endorsement series and no one except politics nerds talked about it
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Sep 7, 2016 22:57
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straight up brolic posted:like the Dallas Morning News just ran both an anti-Trump and Clinton endorsement series and no one except politics nerds talked about it That endorsement just means she's a secret republican though. 
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Sep 7, 2016 22:58
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straight up brolic posted:like the Dallas Morning News just ran both an anti-Trump and Clinton endorsement series and no one except politics nerds talked about it Yeah but what does the startlegram say?  (Sadly Texas won't go blue)
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Sep 7, 2016 22:58
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Nessus posted:The grotesque thing to me isn't so much that they're grilling I may be crazy but I do think there is at least a degree of certain parts of the media not wanting to come off as 'biased' (which in this instance means telling facts that are inconvenient to the right-wing) because the right wing tends to yell and scream when the media says things they don't like. I can't think of a candidate more hostile to the media in my lifetime than Trump, and yet they don't really acknowledge his pretty gross views on libel laws and threats to go after them for saying things that are factually true that Trump doesn't like to hear. I think you would have to go back to Nixon to find someone who hated the media as much as Trump. Yet he plays the media like a fiddle through outrageous headlines that get clicks and views, which in turn gives him free advertising. You could easily write a long book about Trump and the media once this is all over. It's incredibly schizophrenic on all sides.
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Sep 7, 2016 22:58
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duz posted:Ironic, considering she took the name Clinton to end the scandal as to why she didn't take her husband's name when they got married. Her corrupt nature is just that old. What else is Hillary Hiding? Majorian posted:Longtime politician has to deal with decades of baggage in order to be elected president, news at 11. The only other name I can think of that's as heavily slandered by either party as Clinton is Kennedy.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:00
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Taerkar posted:The only other name I can think of that's as heavily slandered by either party as Clinton is Kennedy. Bush is pretty well thrashed, but they actually deserved it.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:01
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You guys are really going to hate when she wins and it turns out she intends to be the president of the whole country and not just the cool kids club. She's going to take meetings with Republicans and work together with them on things.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:01
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A Winner is Jew posted:Bush is pretty well thrashed, but they actually deserved it. Maybe in time, but they didn't really enter the running in full until W.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:02
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You guys are really going to hate when she wins and it turns out she intends to be the president of the whole country and not just the cool kids club. She's going to take meetings with Republicans and work together with them on things.  Secret Republican Status Confirmed
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Sep 7, 2016 23:03
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You guys are really going to hate when she wins and it turns out she intends to be the president of the whole country and not just the cool kids club. She's going to take meetings with Republicans and work together with them on things. as if the GOP's response to anything she does won't be immediate impeachment attempts or just screaming
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Sep 7, 2016 23:05
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Nessus posted:The grotesque thing to me isn't so much that they're grilling That does make me pretty mad too, tbh. I've been watching old SNL reruns, and it's amazing how much "Donald Trump" was a byword for "the literal shittiest person on Earth" through so many sketches. And yet we seem to have forgotten that. I guess part of the reason why it works for him is because so many of us already expected him to be awful, so no one was surprised at the crazy poo poo he was saying. Tatum Girlparts posted:so am I dude, the people who still bring it up are plenty 'mainstream'. Like, again the entire root of this 'we're just asking questions, it LOOKS bad you see' was partially made up by 'what did your emails say about Benghazi?!' So when was the last time a mainstream media source featured Benghazi craziness? Bear in mind, I'm not talking about Rudy Guiliani or whoever coming onto CNN and saying, "Well, EMAILS and also BENGHAZI and also MONICA and also WHITEWATER!!!" and then trailing off as everybody else around him rolls their eyes. I'm talking about hosts saying, "Hey, yeah, what ABOUT Benghazi? Let's have a discussion on it!" I'm talking about devoting large parts of a discussion or a full segment to it. I haven't seen anything like that for months. computer parts posted:What counts as mainstream media? Network news, CNN, MSNBC, etc. Pretty much everyone who isn't firmly in the Trump camp. Trabisnikof posted:Trey Gowdy's little witch hunt is what created the emailghazi. Vilerat's mom spoke at the RNC. That poo poo isn't buried. Inside the pro-Trump camp, sure, it's not. Outside of it? I don't think anybody else is all that interested. As for that CNN article, that one seems to benefit Clinton's case, so it's not exactly what I'm talking about. A Winner is Jew posted:By all accounts she did. The second Libyan civil war, the one that came after the relative calm after the first civil war which was what we intervened in didn't start until 2014... more than a year after she left the state department. Or is that somehow her fault as well? That's not an "as well" question - it's all part of the same operation. The intervention led directly to the aftermath of the intervention. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You guys are really going to hate when she wins and it turns out she intends to be the president of the whole country and not just the cool kids club. She's going to take meetings with Republicans and work together with them on things. Where have I heard that before...
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Sep 7, 2016 23:06
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You guys are really going to hate when she wins and it turns out she intends to be the president of the whole country and not just the cool kids club. She's going to take meetings with Republicans and work together with them on things. Shes going to work with the more moderate senators to discover how to turn Ted Cruz back into his true form and kill him.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:08
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You guys are really going to hate when she wins and it turns out she intends to be the president of the whole country and not just the cool kids club. She's going to take meetings with Republicans and work together with them on things. drat, and here I was really hoping she'd institute Congressional firing squads. Drunk Theory fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 23:09
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Majorian posted:That's not an "as well" question - it's all part of the same operation. The intervention led directly to the aftermath of the intervention. So she's to blame for what happens over a year after she leaves her position as SoS... got it. Do you blame Bill for 9/11 as well?
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Sep 7, 2016 23:10
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Majorian posted:Network news, CNN, MSNBC, etc. Pretty much everyone who isn't firmly in the Trump camp. CNN in particular has been fellating Trump non-stop. DemeaninDemon posted:Shes going to work with the more moderate senators to discover how to turn Ted Cruz back into his true form and kill him. she needs to retrieve his body parts from the haunted mansions and then destroy his resurrected form
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Sep 7, 2016 23:10
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DemeaninDemon posted:Shes going to work with the more moderate senators to discover how to turn Ted Cruz back into his true form and kill him. Gotta get the sacred dagger hidden in St. Peter's Basilica for that. Good thing the pope's pretty friendly.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:12
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Night10194 posted:Gotta get the sacred dagger hidden in St. Peter's Basilica for that. Obama tried to retrieve it, but they don't serve his kind there. By his kind I mean Muslims of course.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:14
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Majorian posted:So when was the last time a mainstream media source featured Benghazi craziness? Bear in mind, I'm not talking about Rudy Guiliani or whoever coming onto CNN and saying, "Well, EMAILS and also BENGHAZI and also MONICA and also WHITEWATER!!!" and then trailing off as everybody else around him rolls their eyes. I'm talking about hosts saying, "Hey, yeah, what ABOUT Benghazi? Let's have a discussion on it!" I'm talking about devoting large parts of a discussion or a full segment to it. I haven't seen anything like that for months.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:14
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There are plenty of people in the electorate who are not stupid that the emails, Benghazi, and the Clinton Foundation represent real concerns for. It's different in the political analysis, read the whole thing world than it is amongst people that don't have time to vet sources and balance reality with existing narratives.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:15
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