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Chuck Boone posted:National Assembly deputy (PSUV) Elias Jaua spoke on a televised speech earlier today and he said that the time just isn't right for holding any kind of election in the country: I was under the impression they have been freely ignoring the constitution as it suits them for awhile now.
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Sep 6, 2016 21:51
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I dont know posted:I was under the impression they have been freely ignoring the constitution as it suits them for awhile now. Yes, they have been. However, as far as I know, this is the first time that a PSUV person has floated around the idea of just not having elections out loud. I think that a good chunk of people knew right off the bat that the recall referendum wouldn't happen, and a smaller chunk believed that the gubernatorial elections wouldn't happen. Comments like these put a big question mark over all future elections in the country as long as the PSUV is around. With comments like these, Jaua is quite literally saying, Forget what the law says: we'll have elections when the time is right (and we decide when the time is right). I don't think anyone had put it quite in those words before, even if it was evident that this is already what was happening. Also, I've just read that all CNE offices will be closed tomorrow out of fears that the workers will be endangered by the opposition's demonstrations. That's one more day the CNE can delay the recall. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Sep 6, 2016 |
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Sep 6, 2016 22:05
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Chuck Boone posted:Yes, they have been. However, as far as I know, this is the first time that a PSUV person has floated around the idea of just not having elections out loud. Nah its not the first time, they've said a bunch of times how its not really favorable for them to hold elections this year.
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Sep 6, 2016 22:13
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Chuck Boone posted:National Assembly deputy (PSUV) Elias Jaua spoke on a televised speech earlier today and he said that the time just isn't right for holding any kind of election in the country: Jaua is a goldmine of crazy. I've definitely heard him say that this isn't a good year to hold elections because *insert a random reason here* multiple times now. My favorite part of this latest interview was when he said that pot banging should be criminalized if it's used as an instrument of hate or intolerance (i.e. if you bang your pots against the PSUV) but it's alright when used as a method of peaceful protest (i.e. if you bang your pots against the MUD or when there are no high-ranking Chavistas in the vicinity). I mean, drat. The Chiguire Bipolar is gonna open the newspaper one of these days and go "You know what? I can't compete with these guys. Let's wrap our operation up guys".
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Sep 7, 2016 00:46
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El Hefe posted:The opposition have called for a new protest in front of the CNE headquarters in Caracas for tomorrow which will happen starting at 12:00pm until 12:10pm, yeah that's right the protest will last 10 minutes. Do you have a source? I want to see the words they used to excuse this loving clowning around. The opposition is ridiculous. We deserve the country we have.
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Sep 7, 2016 08:10
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Hugoon Chavez posted:Do you have a source? I want to see the words they used to excuse this loving clowning around. I think there are two protests today: one is in every regional headquarters of the CNE, and the other is in Caracas. If you're in Caracas, the MUD is asking that you protest only from 12:00 to 12:10 for some reason. The one in Caracas is supposed to be in support of the ones at the regional CNE headquarters, I think. On the Jaua stuff: I know Jaua is on his own level, but I didn't know he'd made these kinds of comments before! Also, I remember that earlier this year Maduro and the CNE had not-so-vaguely threatened to cancel the referendum and other elections if things got out of hand with the protests, but I guess that they're move much closer to making that a reality than I had realized. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 10:58
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What's amazing to me is that the opposition 'organization' is even more useless than if the opposition did not exist at all. I'm amazed that after 9 months of the MUD dicking people around that no spontaneous protests have occurred based on social media like during the Arab Spring. Was life worse for Venezuelans during the events leading to the Caracazo, or is there some secret social engineering technique where forcing people to wait hours in line every day makes them completely submissive? It's amazing how little unrest there seems to be compared to say, the Weimar Republic (which actually did have foreign powers out to get them).
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Sep 7, 2016 12:14
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Apathy is a powerful demotivator after a while. The Venezuelan opposition has had literally years to get their poo poo together - right loving now, today, should be the time when they're in the streets burning cars . For christ sake, Maduro almost could've come close to getting beaten to death by a mob a few days ago (when he took that woman's pot away. Imagine if someone had thrown their pot). Instead, the opposition continues to demonstrate that's it full of the same corrupt hacks or pathetic flaccid penises that the government is made of. Because of that, the government remains in power. Until a third party emerges, or someone has the balls to throw their pan at Maduro, it will never end. Venezuelans need to stand up for themselves, because their political parties won't.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:26
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I managed to get a stream of Telesur last night, holy poo poo. Probably the most interesting aspect of their insane propaganda is that they kept on referring to the right wing and the industrial elites and the AN as "the people who ACTUALLY run this country" in a pejorative sense. As if the PSUV is the plucky underdog against the great big powers that be that are still controlling Venezuela. It's so completely bonkers, I can't believe what lack of shame it takes to stand in front of a camera and say that.
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Sep 7, 2016 15:36
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Chuck Boone posted:I think there are two protests today: one is in every regional headquarters of the CNE, and the other is in Caracas. If you're in Caracas, the MUD is asking that you protest only from 12:00 to 12:10 for some reason. The one in Caracas is supposed to be in support of the ones at the regional CNE headquarters, I think. Yes, that's right, what people here need to realize is that the only city that matters in this country is Caracas, all these protests around the country are meaningless, we've had people from San Cristobal raising hell in the past and the city getting completely militarized with communications cutoff from the rest of the world and it hasn't changed anything. Protesting for 10 minutes in Caracas is a loving joke, the MUD are a joke.
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Sep 7, 2016 16:50
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There's nothing more aggravating than seeing opposition supporters shut down criticism within its own ranks, people are actually defending that 10 minute protest bullshit and how the 1S march didn't actually go to Libertador (AKA actually Caracas). They write that at the same time that I find out the GDP of Venezuela may shrink 20% by the end of the year.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:32
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20% isn't that bad when you consider that people are starving and spending so much time queuing
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Sep 8, 2016 03:21
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This just in: "Maduro killed by angry mob, eaten by second, hungry mob" Update: "Mass vomiting by mob in street"
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Sep 8, 2016 04:12
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Maduro sent a bunch of armed thugs to greet Capriles in Margarita and people in the airport couldn't get out and were scared shitless...
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Sep 8, 2016 05:37
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El Hefe posted:Maduro sent a bunch of armed thugs to greet Capriles in Margarita and people in the airport couldn't get out and were scared shitless... Here's a video taken from inside the terminal: https://twitter.com/ComandoSB/status/773699920285032452 And here's a picture of a hooded person, presumably a government supporter, in the terminal waiting for Capriles to come out: https://twitter.com/nemovimiento/status/773688660193583104 Capriles and the people he was travelling with said that the some of the people in the crowd were armed, but I haven't seen any pictures or video clearly showing weapons. A bit of context on armed pro-government groups in Venezuela: One of the cornerstones of Chavez's legacy is the union civico-militar [civil-military union], which is essentially a philosophy that calls for the blurring of the boundary between the military and civilian spheres. This is why, for example, we have people in government with titles like "General So-and-So, Lord Protector of Shampoo, Scented Soaps and Grooming Products". Another byproduct of this philosophy is that the PSUV has really pushed for the strengthening of militias and pseudo-militias. There are official militia forces that are formally and openly attached to the army as you might have in any other country, but there are also pseudo-militias (which we call colectivos armados [armed collectives]) which are essentially armed thugs who act with impunity and zero accountability. Due to the nature of the colectivos it's not entirely clear what (if anything) differentiates a group of armed thugs sent by the government and a group of armed thugs who formed out of their own initiative. At worst the government actively organizes and directs these colectivos, and at best they do not, but still allow them to operate with absolute impunity. One of the most recent high-profile examples of a colectivo in action took place on November 22 of last year, when one of these groups attacked an opposition rally in Caracas. There's a bunch of pictures of that event here, as well as this video below in which you can clearly see a heavily armed masked dude just milling around this rally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7BiDy8YmNg This is why the opposition some times jumps to the conclusion that a particularly mean-looking pro-government crowd is a colectivo and not just a group of pro-government citizens out protesting. EDIT: In this picture you can see the crowd that greeted Capriles and the other travelers last night. Just outside the door out of the terminal. Notice that there are two National Guard soldiers in the picture (the dudes in green hats), but somehow they couldn't figure out what to do for four hours. 
Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 15:22
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El Hefe posted:Maduro sent a bunch of armed thugs to greet Capriles in Margarita and people in the airport couldn't get out and were scared shitless... So was this just a  "I hope you're not thinking of doing anything cute" show of force or what?
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Sep 8, 2016 17:48
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A DEA agent testified in a pre-trial hearing yesterday in drug trafficking case of Maduro's nephews (Efrain and Francisco Flores) that the two were sent on their drug running mission by a man Bladimir Flores. Bladimir Flores is First Lady Cilia Flores' brother, and is currently Inspector General at the CICPIC (the investigative police force). The links to drug trafficking are creeping closer and closer to the very top of the Venezuelan government.GreyjoyBastard posted:So was this just a
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Sep 9, 2016 14:50
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Don't be naive, it wasn't a spontaneous mob of PSUV supporters it was very clearly a colectivo sent by the government.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:02
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I'm not trying to be dense. I'm just saying that this was another horrible, sad chapter in the history of the country's collapse regardless of whether or not Maduro personally ordered the harassment. The fact that colectivos exist at all is a terrible thing. So is the fact that they know that they can act with impunity, and do. And so is the fact that it looks like it's standard training for National Guard/National Bolivarian Police officers to stand back and let them do their dirty work. If Maduro didn't personally call for the attack, none of those things I've listed above are any less true, and Maduro isn't any less terrible.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:02
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The government has banned the sale of plane and ferry tickets to opposition AN deputies going to Margarita...
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Sep 9, 2016 23:59
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I look at this whole Venezuela situation in broad terms and the term "implosion" comes to mind. The kind of implosion that detonates a nuclear bomb. ... It won't be pretty. But then, what ever is? Counting down to T-zero: "Ten, nine, eight, seven..."
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Sep 10, 2016 06:43
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I'm not sure I saw this discussed. Phone posting so can't do the whole article: https://www.yahoo.com/news/venezuelans-revel-pots-pans-protests-maduro-humiliation-150201207--business.html It says Maduro fled a pot banging crowd? Is this just the old woman confrontation story with another spin, or is it CIA agents planting false narratives?
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Sep 10, 2016 09:17
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Scaramouche posted:I'm not sure I saw this discussed. Phone posting so can't do the whole article: CIA 100% percent. But, no, not really, again, if the CIA is working in Venezuela at all they've missed way too many opportunities to actually change the government. If somebody actually wanted Maduro to be out, he'd be out by now. fnox fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 10:55
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watch out you might get sarcasm banned
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Sep 10, 2016 11:02
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Baloogan posted:watch out you might get sarcasm banned At this particular point in time it's hard to take any mention of the CIA being in Venezuela seriously.
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Sep 10, 2016 11:54
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Whenever this thread goes quiet for a few days I start wondering if the internet went out or if everyone just starved. I guess the most likely explanation is just that nothing's changing and the opposition isn't giving anyone any reason to believe it will.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:41
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Sinteres posted:Whenever this thread goes quiet for a few days I start wondering if the internet went out or if everyone just starved. I guess the most likely explanation is just that nothing's changing and the opposition isn't giving anyone any reason to believe it will. Well, there is a new poll that Fox News is touting that found that 54% of Venezuelans would leave the country if they could. Of course it is Fox News that picked this up and I don't know how reliable this Datincorp is so the figures may well be lower.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:45
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Sinteres posted:Whenever this thread goes quiet for a few days I start wondering if the internet went out or if everyone just starved. I guess the most likely explanation is just that nothing's changing and the opposition isn't giving anyone any reason to believe it will. We need a break from posting bleak news from time to time. In interesting developments, the WSJ posted an interesting piece concerning China's relationship with Venezuela moving forward (http://www.wsj.com/articles/china-rethinks-its-alliance-with-reeling-venezuela-1473628506?tesla=y). Meanwhile the government has continued to persecute members of Voluntad Popular, last I heard up to 20 activists had been detained in Nueva Esparta in preparation for the upcoming summit of non-aligned countries. ComradeCosmobot posted:Well, there is a new poll that Fox News is touting that found that 54% of Venezuelans would leave the country if they could. Of course it is Fox News that picked this up and I don't know how reliable this Datincorp is so the figures may well be lower. Anecdotally speaking, around three-quarters of my high school class have already emigrated and I'm still in touch with a couple of others who are weighing their options or saving to make the move (I'm in the latter category). The same rough ratio holds up for my college buddies, we're a tight group of 11-12 people and now there are just four of us remaining in the country. Two are planning to leave soon and the remaining one is waiting for his girlfriend to finish her masters next year. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say the country is losing out on an entire generation of productive citizens. What's more, even if the economic climate were to return to normal in the short term (which is not going to happen), I'm sure most wouldn't consider returning due to rampant criminality.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:55
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I'd go as far as say that the counts losing two generations. Every person I know that's kind of my contemporary and is having a child is also moving the gently caress out, even those that used to say they would never move. Last time I was there I had basically no friends left. Every week you know of someone else that moved away, legally or otherwise. You can't throw a Mango around here without hitting a Venezuelan, and in the 6 years I've been in Madrid the raise in Venezuelan immigrants is very noticeable. I can't meet new people without a variation of "oh I have a Venezuelan friend".
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Sep 14, 2016 07:40
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I think it's a given that Venezuela will not recover from Maduro's economic massacre, many decades will need to pass to fix the incredible damage Chavismo did to this country. And even if stars were to align and everything that we needed to do to fix this were to be done, we are very, very late in developing our economy to be not completely reliant on petroleum exportation; whenever the world actually decides to make the jump and forget about fossil fuels, Venezuela will be left with no source of income.
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Sep 14, 2016 09:07
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MERCOSUR's non-Venezuela members (Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay) have unanimously decided to veto Venezuela from taking over the presidency of the organization for the next six months, and have instead agreed to share the post. The organization has also given Venezuela until December 1 of this year to complete a series of steps necessary to become a full member. Venezuela originally had until August 12 of this year to complete the steps (which include meeting certain economic and human rights requirements), but it failed to do so. If Venezuela doesn't meet the requirements by December 1, it will be suspended from the organization. Foreign Affairs Minister Delcy Rodriguez shot back at the move through her Twitter account, calling it the result of "political intolerance and desperate bureaucrats". She also said what's below, but if you told me that this sentence came out of North Korea I would believe you: quote:Venezuela and her Bolivarian diplomacy of peace sow relationships of unity and brotherhood with the peoples of the world, always loyal to her independence.
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Sep 14, 2016 17:41
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Jeez, at least run your crazy rants through a spellchecker: https://twitter.com/DrodriguezVen/status/776065027346427904 Edit: On second thought, this might just be her way of fitting her message inside the Twitter character limit. I still stand by the "crazy rant" part, though. beer_war fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 18:07
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Chuck Boone posted:MERCOSUR's non-Venezuela members (Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay and Uruguay) have unanimously decided to veto Venezuela from taking over the presidency of the organization for the next six months, and have instead agreed to share the post. Uruguay actually abstained. Our government is getting more pathetic every day.
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Sep 14, 2016 21:32
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So now the MUD hates CNN and Fernando del Rincon of all people because he called out Chuo Torrealba on his "pre-dialogue" bullshit. The opposition is becoming more and more god-awful with each passing minute.
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Sep 15, 2016 10:32
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The MUD is taking a lot of heat right now because on Tuesday, Jorge Rodriguez (the PSUV mayor of the Libertador municipality in Caracas) said that the PSUV had secretly met with the opposition twice recently. That set off alarms in some opposition sectors because there's an underlying fear that the MUD is either somehow in bed with the PSUV, or that the PSUV might try to weasel its way out of total collapse by negotiating some kind of way for it to survive Maduro and have a chance to come back in the future. All of Tuesday afternoon and yesterday, different opposition figures came out in defense of the talks, and made it abundantly clear that the talks weren't about delaying/cancelling the recall referendum against Maduro, but rather about how to make sure that it happens this year. I don't think this appeased very many people. Also, the head of the MUD (Jesus "Chuo" Torrealba) said yesterday that the PSUV approached the MUD as early as September 3 with a request to sit down and talk after the big protest on September 1 and the protest against Maduro in Margarita on September 2. Torrealba explained that there are at least two big camps in the PSUV: one that thinks chavismo has a chance to survive in a Maduro-less world, and another that is concerned only with maintaining itself in power because they are the targets of international organizations like the DEA, the US Department of Justice, etc. I think that what probably happened is that the PSUV called for the meetings, but it didn't like what the MUD had to offer. I think it's likely that the MUD is serious when it says that it's pushing hard for the recall in 2016 and that they won't let the PSUV talk its way out of that. I think that the PSUV saw this at the meetings, didn't like it, and so Jorge Rodriguez came out on Tuesday announcing the fact that the meetings had taken place as a way of flipping the table over and having the MUD clean up the mess.
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Sep 15, 2016 15:02
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This is beyond pathetic though: https://twitter.com/ChuoTorrealba/status/776260130056855552 The thing about the MUD having secret talks with PSUV, is that we all know very well the referendum isn't going to happen this year because there is no reason for the government to allow it. The idea that we have to negotiate for it to happen is flawed in principle, because this isn't a negotiation, the referendum must happen, and so long as the MUD continues to do PSUV's bidding, forbidding people from actually doing meaningful protests, the CNE will do whatever the gently caress they want. The time for cacerolazos expired roughly 10 years ago, you can't fight a government that actively persecutes and imprisons dissidents without trial, and that denies food and medicine to its citizens for political reasons, by banging loving pots and pans.
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Sep 15, 2016 15:44
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A meta-observation: I once happened across a very bad automobile accident. It was a head-on at an intersection and involved five vehicles. There was much blood and some fatalities. I got out to look around. Now, I wasn't interested in the carnage that was there, I was mainly interested in the skid marks. I wanted to know the cause of the accident, its sequence, the precursor situation, human error, random chance, etc., not it's sad consequences,too late to do anything anyway, for the practical purpose of learning to avoid such accidents in the future. ... Now this Venezuela thing is like a head-on viewed in slow motion. How much longer can these events proceed until it reaches a singularity and *BAM* carnage? And then too late to do anything. Or will it sputter along for years or decades without any sudden collisions? ... What knowledge can be extracted so such a collision can be prevented in the future? What went wrong here? Human error, random chance or what? E: We must learn from our mistakes and sure and mistakes have been made in Venezuela. zimboe fucked around with this message at 08:15 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 08:08
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how can my state get in on the venezuelan brain drain? minneapolis needs more arepa stands
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Sep 16, 2016 14:56
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There's another big protest planned for Caracas today. It's setting off from five different points this morning around the city and meeting on the Libertador Avenue near the CANTV building at noon. The government shut down 12 subway stations in the center of the city to "protect riders" from the roving bands of opposition barbarians looting, raping and pillaging their way through the city today.
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Sep 16, 2016 14:58
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 This is apparently Nicolas Maduro's birth certificate. It has some strange irregularities, most noticeably that this was made when Nicolas was already 2 years old, most children are registered within a couple days of their birth, sometimes even the same day.
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Sep 18, 2016 11:34
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