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Jonathan Chait is pissed  quote:I had not taken seriously the possibility that Donald Trump could win the presidency until I saw Matt Lauer host an hour-long interview with the two major party candidates. Lauer’s performance was not merely a failure, it was horrifying and shocking.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:44
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Majorian posted:Oh bullshit. You called "sexism" without understanding what was being argued in the first place. You assumed I was casting Hillary Clinton as an extension of her husband's political agenda, when I was criticizing her on her own stated positions as First Lady. First Lady is a political position as much as any other, though. If you're going to be an outspoken First Lady you either toe the policy line set by the President or you stick to healthy eating initiatives and photo op stuff that won't draw too much ire. And separate from her time as First Lady she had an independent political career where she was her own boss. Maybe weight that a little more heavily, especially since it happened in this millennium and not 20 goddamned years ago.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:44
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I was criticizing a sexist thing you've done repeatedly, as have others in this thread, and you're having a temper tantrum about it. If you do it again I'll criticize it again. You always have the option of learning and changing, which would free up all that tanty time for something more fun. Majorian posted:e: Also, that's not me having a tantrum. That's me getting defensive because I felt like I was being attacked.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:45
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I've been saying this for weeks. He almost certainly won't win, but if he does, it will be the Matt Laurers of the world who will deserve much of the blame.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:46
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Majorian posted:Also, that's not me having a tantrum. That's me getting defensive because I felt like I was being attacked. Haha I was going to thank you for apologizing but I see this edit showed up while I quoted, so disregard! Maybe clear the room of sharp-cornered furniture before your next bout of "defensiveness."
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Sep 8, 2016 05:47
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Haha I was going to thank you for apologizing but I see this edit showed up while I quoted, so disregard! Maybe clear the room of sharp-cornered furniture before your next bout of "defensiveness." Look, I'm just explaining why I acted the way I did. I'm not trying to make excuses, just trying to underline that I'm not a bad person. Just too readily defensive. That's a recurring personality flaw of mine. Again, I'm sorry, for everything.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:49
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Majorian posted:Also, that's not me having a tantrum. That's me getting defensive because I felt like I was being attacked. Are you a dude? I'm a dude. I had trouble for forever understanding and appreciating feminism and sexism in women's daily lives. I used to have super terrible opinions about women (and a lot of things, but especially women). I still have terrible opinions, but I make an effort to not be racist or sexist and I've found that one of the number one things you can do on the internet to not be an rear end in a top hat is (if you're a progressive and care about such things, anyway), when a person of color or a woman or an LGBT person or what have you says "hey that's not very nice," you should listen, even if they're cross because they have to put up with massive bullshit stupidity every day of their entire lives because they didn't win the white straight guy lottery I, and presumably you, did.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:49
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My one takeaway is that I still can't believe just how openly a Russian Fifth Columnist Trump is. And I mean, there's a part of me that just doesn't understand how this doesn't flog his numbers into the single-digits. Imagine any candidate before 1991 speaking well of any Russian leader. Even in the 90s, imagine a candidate saying Yeltzin was better than a sitting US president. They wouldn't be alive a week later. This is the bizzaro election and I just dunno what to make of it anymore.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:53
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Lightning Knight posted:Are you a dude? Yes, I am a dude, and I try very hard to not be racist or sexist. I'm usually pretty good about it, but I slipped up this time, and got super-defensive when called on it, because I'm operating on way too little sleep and tried to multitask. It was dumb of me. I'm a little raw to the charge of sexism right now, too - I learned today that one of my team members at work got sexually harassed by one of the old founders of the organization, so...it's been a lovely day. Again, that's not an excuse for what I said, just hopefully a partial explanation for my outsized reaction. Majorian fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 05:55
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SpaceDrake posted:My one takeaway is that I still can't believe just how openly a Russian Fifth Columnist Trump is. One guy on Twitter made a similar point - imagine the right-wing media reaction if Senator Obama had said Putin was better than Bush back in 2008.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:56
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SpaceDrake posted:My one takeaway is that I still can't believe just how openly a Russian Fifth Columnist Trump is.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:56
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For all of the poo poo that is going on now, remember how Gore was shamed in the debates for actually knowing who the leaders of our allied nations were, while Bush got a pass for not knowing what states were part of Yugoslavia. The media acted like Gore was a jackass and rubbing in Bush's face by actually knowing the state of the world. It can, will, and has gotten worse
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Sep 8, 2016 05:57
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The Glumslinger posted:For all of the poo poo that is going on now, remember how Gore was shamed in the debates for actually knowing who the leaders of our allied nations were, while Bush got a pass for not knowing what states were part of Yugoslavia. The media acted like Gore was a jackass and rubbing in Bush's face by actually knowing the state of the world. Yep. That was one of the more bizarre things I've ever seen. https://twitter.com/prchovanec/status/773694520148058113
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Sep 8, 2016 05:58
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SpaceDrake posted:My one takeaway is that I still can't believe just how openly a Russian Fifth Columnist Trump is. I've been thinking about that a lot too. Trump's breaking all the spoken and unspoken rules, and over and over again we're finding out they weren't really rules at all, if breaking them comes with no consequences. I don't think we're structurally set up to handle someone who acts like him, which makes me think he could have come along at any time. Yeah we weren't too hot on Russia in the 90s but we're not too hot on calling for the assassination of our political opponents now. He's breaking every campaign finance law I've ever heard of, flagrantly courting foreign money and influence, groping his daughter on stage... if it were only one thing it might have sunk him, but the sheer number of gaffes makes them self-supporting, Mr. Burns style.  He could have done it any time, as long as he did all of it.
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Sep 8, 2016 05:59
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DaveWoo posted:One guy on Twitter made a similar point - imagine the right-wing media reaction if Senator Obama had said Putin was better than Bush back in 2008. It is really, really, really loving absurd that Trump makes campaign-destroying gaffs on a weekly basis and it isn't a thing. Romney's 47% comment was arguably one of the most damaging things to his campaign and Trump said three worse things than that in a single interview.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:00
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Majorian posted:Yes, I am a dude, and I try very hard to not be racist or sexist. I'm usually pretty good about it, but I slipped up this time, and got super-defensive when called on it, because I'm operating on way too little sleep and tried to multitask. It was dumb of me. I'm a little raw to the charge of sexism right now, too - I learned today that one of my team members at work got sexually harassed by one of the old founders of the organization, so...it's been a lovely day. Again, that's not an excuse for what I said, just hopefully a partial explanation for my outsized reaction. Understandable, and I appreciate you coming around. I hope your coworker's ok.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:02
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ImpAtom posted:It is really, really, really loving absurd that Trump makes campaign-destroying gaffs on a weekly basis and it isn't a thing. Romney's 47% comment was arguably one of the most damaging things to his campaign and Trump said three worse things than that in a single interview.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:02
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Nessus posted:Sounds like you're liberally biased to me. I had sudden flashbacks to a cooking class where some lady got mad at the instructions to "apply liberally" the marinade. She was like a human email forward. And now I'm again grateful that my elderly relatives' Re: Re: FWD: FWD: FWD: work is mostly in the "A conservative did a thing" field and I rarely have to hear about Hillary's coughing being because her human mask was chafing against her scaly lizard people skin.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:05
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Understandable, and I appreciate you coming around. I hope your coworker's ok. Well, thanks, I appreciate your understanding. My coworker's amazingly tough, even though she's in her mid-20's. My wife is actually her direct boss, and she's really, really loving pissed. I've never seen her this angry, which is probably good. But still, it's been a rough day.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:05
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Redgrendel2001 posted:Yep. That was one of the more bizarre things I've ever seen. First response game! https://twitter.com/coolbearcjs/status/773728350212718594  (to be fair the majority is pretty good but whoof that one)
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Sep 8, 2016 06:09
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I had sudden flashbacks to a cooking class where some lady got mad at the instructions to "apply liberally" the marinade. She was like a human email forward. And now I'm again grateful that my elderly relatives' Re: Re: FWD: FWD: FWD: work is mostly in the "A conservative did a thing" field and I rarely have to hear about Hillary's coughing being because her human mask was chafing against her scaly lizard people skin.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:10
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SpaceDrake posted:My one takeaway is that I still can't believe just how openly a Russian Fifth Columnist Trump is. The appeal of easy overly-simplistic dumb answers transcends all cultures and borders. That's what Putin offers, and that's what Trump offers: crack for your political Id. 
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Sep 8, 2016 06:10
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Nessus posted:I remember when I was in grade school and we had stacks of old Readers' Digests around for some reason, and I read one and it had a quote from George HW Bush saying 'I think liberals are more like wishful thinkers' and I thought, 'hee hee, does that mean I should apply sunscreen wishful-thinkerily?' And now we know why McCain has skin tumors.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:14
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Yinlock posted:First response game! That's a bot.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:14
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I think, implicitly, that the other thing going on is that Republicans are engaging in their time honored tradition of doublethink. Foreigners are bad and America is the greatest, and Russia is especially The Worst, but Putin is a strongman who stands up to Obummer, those pansy Europeans, and likes to poo poo on liberals and especially gay people with impunity, so he's one of the classic "Good Ones," and it's ok to like him and his rule, even if Russia is still bad.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:That's a bot. cool... bear?
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Sep 8, 2016 06:14
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Nessus posted:Trump has figured out that there has been a generation and a half of conditioning to make it so that a Republican could hail Satan and swallow a slurry of aborted infants and would still get 40% of the vote, because they're a Republican. The actual Republicans are pissed off because he might break the scam they worked so hard to build and they expected it to last at least another ten years. The thing that gets me, though, is that he's cozying up to a Russian dictator. Like, most of these older white voters who are supporting him are also people who spent decades being indoctrinated to think of Russia as an implacable enemy, regardless of how true it is (disclaimer: ironically I think it's far more true now than it was during most of the actual Cold War). Trump is flying directly in the face of this, and it doesn't seem to hurt his numbers at all. I have to wonder what the takeaway from this is. Did the American public, including and perhaps especially Republicans, really not give all that much of a poo poo about the Cold War when it comes down to it? In nearly any other context, that would be a joyous concept to take from all this, but in this case it just means that a significant portion of the population can openly fawn over a foreign dictator. Could anyone else get away with this? Does this say anything about how the public feels about relations with Russia in general? In any case, somebody in Wisconsin should probably hook the corpse of McCarthy up to a generator - he's probably rotating fast enough in his grave to generate a good jiggawatt or two.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:14
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Nessus posted:I remember when I was in grade school and we had stacks of old Readers' Digests around for some reason, and I read one and it had a quote from George HW Bush saying 'I think liberals are more like wishful thinkers' and I thought, 'hee hee, does that mean I should apply sunscreen wishful-thinkerily?'  Oh hey if tonight's entertainment made anybody crave some reading on what a useless bag of hair Matt Lauer is, check out Top of the Morning. Sulky baby Matt nearly sank an entire network because he didn't like his costars getting attention.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:15
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SpaceDrake posted:The thing that gets me, though, is that he's cozying up to a Russian dictator. I feel like, between Bush's "axis of evil," 9/11, and ISIS, there was a lot of shift among the American Right away from the Russians (who spent a long time wandering the wilderness as irrelevant) to the Middle East and Asia to find boogeymen. We functionally won the war against communism and the Soviet Union, and in the perception of the Right, when the Russians came back, they came back under the rule of a fascist strongman who speaks their language, at a time when their beloved America is under the rule of a man who embodies everything they hate. Thus it's cool to say Putin is good, because he's a white fascist who stands up to Obama's black American neoliberal, and American fascists eat that poo poo up.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:18
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literally, they think Obama is scarier than Putin because he's black there you go
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Sep 8, 2016 06:19
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William F Cuckley posted:Powell has a history of being a lying sack of poo poo, so it's not unexpected. Here, let me help:
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Sep 8, 2016 06:20
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Augus posted:literally, they think Obama is scarier than Putin because he's black Nah, it's because the right wing has a mad fetish for dictator strong men and always has. ErIog fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 06:21
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ErIog posted:Nah, it's because the right wing has a mad fetish for dictator strong men and always has. whynotboth.jpg
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Sep 8, 2016 06:24
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Lightning Knight posted:I think, implicitly, that the other thing going on is that Republicans are engaging in their time honored tradition of doublethink. Foreigners are bad and America is the greatest, and Russia is especially The Worst, but Putin is a strongman who stands up to Obummer, those pansy Europeans, and likes to poo poo on liberals and especially gay people with impunity, so he's one of the classic "Good Ones," and it's ok to like him and his rule, even if Russia is still bad. There's also the fact that Putin likes to cast himself as a defender of Russia and Christendom against the evil Mohammedan menace. He is the political heir to the Byzantine Emperors, holding the walls from the onslaught of the smelly non-white hordes of the East. Unfortunately, that imagery appeals quite a bit to a lot of (white, extremely racist) Americans.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:24
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ErIog posted:Nah, it's because the right wing has a mad fetish for dictator strong men and always has. They aren't mutually exclusive
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Sep 8, 2016 06:26
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SpaceDrake posted:The thing that gets me, though, is that he's cozying up to a Russian dictator.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:28
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SpaceDrake posted:I have to wonder what the takeaway from this is. Did the American public, including and perhaps especially Republicans, really not give all that much of a poo poo about the Cold War when it comes down to it? They gave a poo poo about communism and socialism. The soviet union fell in 1991 and Putin is president rather than General Secretary of the Communist Party. He's also corrupt as gently caress and likes to wave his dick around. These are things that have traditionally been popular with the American right wing dating back like a century. It all makes perfect sense to me.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:28
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Kilroy posted:As usual this is a matter of messaging - this need to be presented in a manner that people in the media and other idiots are likely to understand and believe. Powell has always seemed to me to have a core of decency and intelligence, which makes me sad he didn't make different choices in his life. I think with a flip of a coin he could have been a great progressive.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:30
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During the early/mid Cold War, there was something of a double standard between the parties with regards to accommodation with the Eastern Bloc. Democrats had to be super hardcore Cold Warriors to avoid being branded as either naive fools or communist sympathizers, while Republicans' anti-Communist values were considered beyond reproach basically no matter what.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:30
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Powell has always seemed to me to have a core of decency and intelligence, which makes me sad he didn't make different choices in his life. I think with a flip of a coin he could have been a great progressive. He certainly has the air of somebody that would apply to However in his dealings he's got a long track record of being an amoral piece of garbage
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Sep 8, 2016 06:31
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