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"Gaiden" must mean something different to Terada, but then again the term isn't exactly strictly defined.
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Sep 8, 2016 08:28
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Could be worse. This game could be called Super Robot Wars Original Generations II Gaiden.
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Sep 8, 2016 08:53
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OG1 had the SRW2 plot run to its end followed by the Alpha plot without most of the Alpha originals' personal stories, while Moon Dwellers has J and GC running side-by-side with more original stuff in there, and OG1 and OG2 (in its individual GBA release) both have fewer stages than Moon Dwellers It might not make ideal use of the full cast, but it feels a little off to call it a Gaiden game just for being focused and being shorter than the longest OG game.
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Sep 8, 2016 08:57
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It's more that OG1,2 and 2ndOG advanced the overall setting. OGG contributed basically three characters at this point.
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Sep 8, 2016 09:29
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Regarding SRW gameplay it commits the cardinal sin of having a million options of how to fight but 99% of the time the difficulty isn't high enough to have any reason to pick one or the other other than that one of them looks cooler than the other. But I am not a priest and this is not confessional and there are giant robots that need wrecking and anime words that need yelling.
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Sep 8, 2016 09:37
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Samurai Sanders posted:Regarding SRW gameplay it commits the cardinal sin of having a million options of how to fight but 99% of the time the difficulty isn't high enough to have any reason to pick one or the other other than that one of them looks cooler than the other.
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Sep 8, 2016 11:04
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Davzz posted:I don't think that's strictly true - FF Tactics is like the gold standard of SRPG for many people and it isn't really that hard outside of a handful of difficulty spikes, but IMO the variety of choices in that game appeal to people because they tend to convey new form of playstyles - charge-based magic plays differently from instant physicals and there's a lot of utility scattered throughout the jobs to pick and mix, whereas SRW's "choice" if you remove animations out of the equation is usually "Do I want to use something with bigger numbers or smaller ones" Tactics Ogre" 
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Sep 8, 2016 11:24
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I have never been particularly enthused with OG's plot, so I didn't mind MD being pretty bland. I'm just here for the tactical cutscene simulator.
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Sep 8, 2016 11:34
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MonsieurChoc posted:Tactics Ogre" Vandal Hearts (for all six people who have played it)
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Sep 8, 2016 14:13
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Vandal Hearts (for all six people who have played it) I'm one of 'em! 
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Sep 8, 2016 17:18
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If I didnt like the gameplay I would just watch youtube videos.
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Sep 8, 2016 17:41
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Samurai Sanders posted:Regarding SRW gameplay it commits the cardinal sin of having a million options of how to fight but 99% of the time the difficulty isn't high enough to have any reason to pick one or the other other than that one of them looks cooler than the other. But I am not a priest and this is not confessional and there are giant robots that need wrecking and anime words that need yelling. This is why Neo is secretly the best SRW.
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Sep 8, 2016 17:43
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It is also why I like FMW so much. And for those curious, no, there is still no word as to FMW4's release date. 
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Sep 8, 2016 17:46
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Dre2Dee2 posted:Vandal Hearts (for all six people who have played it) It's a goodun yeah. The best SRPG though are the 2 Pathway to Glory games. But they are on the N Gage so barely anyone played them. And then the devs took the core gameplay, dumbed it down, and made a PSP Warhammer 40k game out of it that wasn't remotely as good. (Though it's a fair game in its own right. Took out the RPG elements sadly.) They aren't much about the story and more about futilely trying to keep your group of WW2 operatives from dying. Hint: it doesn't matter how experienced your characters are because a sub machine gun ripping off a clip at point blank range will still the gently caress out of them. Works the other way too however. Closer to X Com but you shoot Nazis and Imperial Japanese. And steal their vehicles and gun emplacements and drop mortars on buildings you think they are hiding in so the structure collapses on them and they die. Also lots of sneaking around because bullets don't care about hp so it's kind of necessary. And it's got hot seat versus play modes. Yet because LOL TACOPHONE LOL SIDETALKIN few people played it and it had like very little impact on Srpgs at all.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:08
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BlitzBlast posted:It is also why I like FMW so much. Also I can't stop listening to its music like holy poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM9mdLsPoZk
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Sep 8, 2016 23:26
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The gameplay of SRW is unique in that they're merely okay but very challenging SRPGs until you factor spirits in. When you do, you have 100% hit rates, 100% evasion rates, do double damage, take 6 turns in a row and a bunch of other fun things that let you steamroll everything assuming you've been upgrading your team properly. I kind of dislike spirits because of that, but also they're the most unique thing about SRW, and being able to say "okay now is when things get serious" then you spend all your SP and dish out hundreds of thousands of damage all at once" feels COOL AS HELL. I'd say the games being super easy during the 2nd halves is a feature of the super robot spirit shenanigans, rather than a bug. I like the gameplay.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:46
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I don't think spirits are to blame so much as the game being designed around upgrades which are entirely optional. That's a major thing. SRW is designed around having a set of units with the game balanced around those units at their absolute bare minimum power level and then offers you ways to significantly boost their power. The end result is that any given unit can end up far more powerful than expected because they can't design the game in such a way that you can't finish it if you don't level up Boss Borot or whatever. (Barring some of the older games where forced leveling for points was a thing and it sucked.) It would probably make more sense to remove or tone down upgrades rather than spells but the ability to take your favorite unit and make it a god is also a selling point of SRW. That is why it has things like EX Hard for people who don't want to do that.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:51
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Skill points are probably the main mechanical reason why I enjoy SRW despite being faceroll if you even breathe on any upgrades or skills.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:56
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ImpAtom posted:It would probably make more sense to remove or tone down upgrades rather than spells but the ability to take your favorite unit and make it a god is also a selling point of SRW. That is why it has things like EX Hard for people who don't want to do that. I think its definitely upgrades that do it, FMW1 was pretty rough stuff for me because my guys didn't get ultra mega powerful. And then FMW2 changes WP to be a level of upgrade across the board so with a carryover game your Reimu or Marisa can be maxed from the first intermission you can upgrade them. I like that most of the challenge of SRW is optional. Be it through no/low upgrades or SR points or secrets or whatever.
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Sep 9, 2016 00:31
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ImpAtom posted:I don't think spirits are to blame so much as the game being designed around upgrades which are entirely optional. I agree with this in the sense that the SRW damage formula cares too much about base weapon damage. I would say upgrades don't really break the game until you have 5 weapon upgrade bars or so, any more upgrade bars than that give progressively larger bonuses, which is when things start to break down. Multipliers like Attacker, Ryoma's ace bonus and Hot Blood are the next most important thing, and when you have both these and weapon upgrades things get silly. But I would say that cash and PP make one-turning endgame bosses easier, while Spirits make it possible and that's a big difference. There's also a more fundamental design issue in that balancing around spirits is why most bosses are speedbumps with tons of HP that pose little threat. There's just not much you can do when player units have cheatcodes on demand so they just inflate stats, give them multiple turns and a MAPW then call it a day. More recent games tend to have lower SP pools, start you without a full SP pool, and don't let you learn the really big spells (Hot Blood, Awaken, etc.) until very late in the game. They've also all but deleted most purchasable damage multiplier abilities. Meanwhile they've been more generous with money (I don't think I've been strapped for cash since, like, Reversal) and weapon upgrades are now shared, because those are game breaking but not as much as spirits.
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Sep 9, 2016 00:31
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GimmickMan posted:I agree with this in the sense that the SRW damage formula cares too much about base weapon damage. I would say upgrades don't really break the game until you have 5 weapon upgrade bars or so, any more upgrade bars than that give progressively larger bonuses, which is when things start to break down. Multipliers like Attacker, Ryoma's ace bonus and Hot Blood are the next most important thing, and when you have both these and weapon upgrades things get silly. I don't really see spirits as cheat codes. They are an expendable resource that you have to think about where to expend for maximum gain. Being able to nullify an attack or do additional damage is what most RPGs call a buff or debuff. None of the spells on their own merits are particularly powerful in a game-breaking way without very careful expenditure of resources. Yeah, it's possible to set up a one-turn kill with HTB cannon being repeatedly spammed over and over but that's fairly general ability manipulation and involves a near-concentrated whole-party effort to keep the characters involved fueled up. In comparison upgrades absolutely break the curve. Being able to max out mobility means any dodgy unit becomes quickly untouchable. Focus multiplies this but a max-upgraded unit without focus is more untouchable than a focused unit without upgrades. Your only limitation is money but in good SRPG fashion a single powerful unit is always more useful than several weaker units so stacking upgrades on a single unit pays off much better than trying to spread them out. (And that's discounting recent SRWs making money so plentiful that full upgrading half your party is possible.) The boss design of SRW can be boring but that's more a limitation of specific game's systems than spells. Neo has spells and it has a lot more flexibility what you can do with enemies and bosses due to how it changes things up. A lot of SRWs show off their mechanical strengths and weaknesses in a no-upgrade game. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 01:33
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I suppose my problem is with the general SRPG ability manipulation mechanics then. I'm with you that the game mechanics are often at their most coherent without upgrades, particularly weapon upgrades for games like Z where it makes or breaks the TRI system.
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Sep 9, 2016 02:58
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Spirit Commands are conceptually fine - they're a limited resource you use to turn the tides in your favor against overwhelming odds - a fairly basic concept in storytelling and gameplay design, like bombs in SHMUPs. In practice, the average SRW player's team tends to be way stronger than the enemy even as the plot desperately tries to convince you otherwise, which is what kinda leads to the situation where that feature just let you stomp them even harder into the ground. Though balance wise, the big thing that seems to be a problem child with balancing Spirits are multi-pilot units which are almost consistently good unless there are units with even more broken stats around, which is probably why they've been hit with a whole bunch of nerfs recently.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:19
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The thing is that yes, allied units in SRW are stronger than enemy units at a baseline, but SR points actually do require you to be overwhelmingly stronger than enemy units. If you're just trying to win, the game is pretty trivial. Winning under par is balanced around the idea that you have about 50% more movement speed, 100% more survivability, 200% more damage output, etc. than you actually do, which they're perfectly aware is already enough to sweep the enemy with minimal trying. Obviously how hard that is varies from game to game (say, any Z sequel vs. any OG game) but the point is that SRW isn't really about winning in the same way that Fire Emblem is. SRW is about winning with as much class as possible. I should get back to playing NEO, which was actually a nasty resources game but did it well.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:30
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The English version of SD Gundam G Generation Genesis will be launching on the same day as the Japanese version: November 22nd.
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Sep 9, 2016 09:07
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Caphi posted:The thing is that yes, allied units in SRW are stronger than enemy units at a baseline, but SR points actually do require you to be overwhelmingly stronger than enemy units. If you're just trying to win, the game is pretty trivial. Winning under par is balanced around the idea that you have about 50% more movement speed, 100% more survivability, 200% more damage output, etc. than you actually do, which they're perfectly aware is already enough to sweep the enemy with minimal trying. Obviously how hard that is varies from game to game (say, any Z sequel vs. any OG game) but the point is that SRW isn't really about winning in the same way that Fire Emblem is. SRW is about winning with as much class as possible.
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Sep 9, 2016 09:53
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Man, SRW3 sure has some...SNES-era plotting. Lune: "Grrrr! I'm gonna get you guys for killing my father, Bian Zoldark!" Masaki: "Hey you're cute." Lune: "True. Also gently caress the Zabi family, I'm joining you guys."
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Sep 9, 2016 11:33
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Gba og2 was the last time I felt the struggle with max upgrades.
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Sep 9, 2016 11:48
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Raxivace posted:Man, SRW3 sure has some...SNES-era plotting. Having played through SRW3 first, I just assumed Lune was some kind of mecha magical girl who turned into Valsione, probably from some 80's OVA no one has ever heard of. When I found out that the Valsione was actually a full scale giant robot with a girls face, I was tremendously disappointed--not at all helped by the fact that a giant robot with a flesh colored face is creepy as all hell.
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Sep 9, 2016 12:02
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Policenaut posted:The English version of SD Gundam G Generation Genesis will be launching on the same day as the Japanese version: November 22nd. Extremely good poo poo but I am still the idiot hoping for a western release. Also I finished Extreme Vs Force and I can say it's pretty good. The Force battles were pretty fun even if Vs stuff was lacking. The last chapter was the high point for Force stuff and the final battle was legitimately fun for me, especially since I went for the medal for only 2000 point units and they bothered to have the different waves spawn in at different positions each time so you have to keep your squads moving and pop force commands when you need them. Not sure if I'm going to go far into the post game since I don't trust Bandai Namco licensed stuff to not pump it full of bullshit, but I think I got my money's worth. Only real problem I had was the story being nothing until the end where it tried and failed to pull together anything of worth. Also I think the ending is supposed to tie into something else but gently caress if I'll bother to find out.
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Sep 9, 2016 13:59
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Rascyc posted:There are like two gamefaqs posters who LJ their play throughs and they are always all SR point no upgrade runs. It may seem like upgrading is required but the truth is that you probably just haven't mastered the systems. I meant with spirits chat. You can probably do no upgrades but it makes it take longer and you have to reload more.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:38
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I'm kind of legendarily terrible at strategy games that aren't called Disgaea (and it's been argued that those don't even count so ), so SRW seems plenty hard to me as-is, but I also make terrible decisions on the regular. Especially when given access to pilot swapping, because I just can't help myself, and tend to throw pilots I like into suits I like, with little to no thought given to their strengths or team comp. Like throwing Ibis in the Giganduro or Ing in the Gungrust Kai so I could give the EX Exbein to Mai. I'm sure if I actually played pilots to their strengths, or used suits/pilots I didn't care for, I'd be saying they're too easy too. I'm the worst. 
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Sep 9, 2016 15:36
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I imported Moon Dwellers, and the other games I played were Alpha Gaiden, J and Original Generation (I might have also played OG2, I don't remember). Any tips?
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Sep 9, 2016 16:33
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Senerio posted:I imported Moon Dwellers, and the other games I played were Alpha Gaiden, J and Original Generation (I might have also played OG2, I don't remember). Any tips? Have fun, the most important tip.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:09
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Senerio posted:I imported Moon Dwellers, and the other games I played were Alpha Gaiden, J and Original Generation (I might have also played OG2, I don't remember). Any tips? Use Calvina.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:12
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Is Latooni still the best? What's the best mech for her, if so?
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Sep 9, 2016 17:16
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Upgrade accuracy, it's like 20k for 5 bars, which is very cheap, and there's many enemies in this game that are super dodgy. I say this as someone who doesn't bother upgrading accuracy in most SRWs even though nearly everyone will recommend doing so. Give your SP Drinks to Alfimie so she can cast Inspire on people and give them 100% hit rates. The Concentration skill (350 PP, reduces SP costs by 20%) is ideal for anybody with Inspire as well. e: Latooni has the Fairlion from OG2. It's a great mook sweeper and she does top tier damage with the combination attack. There's many pilots and units better than her though, the cast has expanded considerably in the past 2 games and you've got super robots everywhere now. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 17:23
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Senerio posted:Is Latooni still the best? What's the best mech for her, if so? Latooni should always pilot the Fairlion. It's a very strong robot that has a combo attack.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:24
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Policenaut posted:The English version of SD Gundam G Generation Genesis will be launching on the same day as the Japanese version: November 22nd. what a world we live in.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:44
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Dabudedabide really grew on me in spite of his stupid name and tendency to hang around Lamalice, he's such a hammy goofy dork and the two attacks he unlocks during his last stand are cool. RIP you dorky super robot villain.
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Sep 9, 2016 21:08
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