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hans is bad and big daddy paddy is somewhat less bad but still not perfect but when i play a game of KF2 the chance of me feeling good after a match is nonzero if i play an endless mode the chance of feeling good is flat 0. it's guaranteed to never happen, because you either bitch out or burn out. idk how i can put it more clearly unless you disagree that feeling good after a match is a good thing.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:33
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I think we're slated to eventually get Never-Ending Story mode, but don't count on that not including boss waves.
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Sep 7, 2016 18:49
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Truly shameful. Is the impact damage same as well?
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Sep 7, 2016 20:52
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SinineSiil posted:Is the impact damage same as well? Yes.
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Sep 7, 2016 21:22
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god help me  I like the idea of a boss, but there's got to be a way to make it challenging other than hyper bullet sponge. Why does the boss have to be his own wave? How did that become a rule? Because it seems to be a major part of the problem - that the boss has to be so tough that he justifies occupying 6 people for 10+ minutes. Why not nerf the bosses massively so that they're actually killable, then mix them into wave 10? It would still be hard, and much more exciting than endless kiting and hours you never get back plinking at the same 2 boring monsters and listening to their voice lines for eternity. Add a few more visually interesting big monsters, randomly mix them into the last wave. Call that the boss wave because it's got bosses in it. Of course it will never happen, but it wouldn't demand very many new assets, or very much new code. And it would still be hard. Obviously it being hard is the most important thing to everyone. But it could be hard and not boring.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:21
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One of the things that really strikes me about the boss fights is that I always get the feeling that we're supposed to dodge the attacks. Sometimes that's possible, especially when the attacks are well-telegraphed. In a lot of cases, though, that's just not possible. IsHans charging you? Then he's almost certainly going to run you down and hit you. We don't have any sort of dodge, our jump is quite frankly pathetic, and blocking requires pulling out a melee weapon on very short notice.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:26
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The bosses have never bothered me, even Hans at his worst never bothered me, I just think they are being tweaked in all the wrong ways, like they see whatever stupid metrics they use, that people are winning to much so they just make things dumber and harder. People out pacing Hans and Patriarch? Punish the fast classes by making them slower. A zerk locking down hans and making his damage meaningless with good parries? Make Hans damage absurd so even if you parry it you still lose a fair chunk(let's ignore the fact that only one class will have a melee weapon out all the time) People dodging Hans nades? Make it so hans shits them out WHILE running thus making them harder to see again and leading to people's death cause they have no idea what's happening. Patriarch's one in the pipe quote seems to be missing as well, don't know if that's a bug or intentional. Basically they want the game to be harder but don't seem to know how to go about it, nobody really wants to spend 40 minutes to an hour doing 10 waves only for Hans to show up and one shot the support right off the bat.
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Sep 7, 2016 23:42
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Previously, I had a lot of success dodging Patty's attacks by simply sprinting backwards well enough in advance - if the minigun is already swinging down at my head, I'm getting hit, but if I see it coming, I'll be out of range before it hits me. This doesn't seem to be the case anymore - I used to dodge like 80% of his melee attacks and now it's more like 15-20%. Add to this the lack of ONE IN THE PIPE and spike up in damage (77 in one hit on Suicidal is extremely rude), and now Patriarch feels just as much of a slog as Hans does. It seems like instead of dodging the bosses you're supposed to take turns tanking the boss while the medic freaks the gently caress out trying to keep everyone alive enough to survive a random delete_player.exe and then SUMMON THE TRASH HORDE to split everyone up and make it harder. Why does Hans get Husks what the gently caress Yes, Tripwire reading metrics of "people are winning vs. the bosses a fair bit" and being aghast and taking the worst steps possible to "fix" that is really aggravating!
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Sep 8, 2016 00:13
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Hanses adds are unfun garbagemen and need to calm down.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:07
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It's really stupid to assume that the the players should only win some of the time. The point of playing videogames is to win. Nobody who has any grasp of fun wants to play a videogame where they're going to lose most of the time. By current Killing Floor logic, every few minutes there should be a lightning strike that instakills one player at random. Hardcore Challenge. Imagine how rewarding it'll be to win a round then.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:29
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I started playing Hell on Earth and some of the weird balance changes are sort of making a bit more sense now. The go-to strat is literally just to do laps around the map as a group on an agreed-upon route and basically never stop moving. Which of course gimps Sharpshooter naturally and also makes Berserker + Medic the go-to strat that just always wins despite how much Tripwire wish it wouldn't.
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Sep 8, 2016 06:43
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Bilal posted:It's really stupid to assume that the the players should only win some of the time. The point of playing videogames is to win. Nobody who has any grasp of fun wants to play a videogame where they're going to lose most of the time. By current Killing Floor logic, every few minutes there should be a lightning strike that instakills one player at random. Hardcore Challenge. Imagine how rewarding it'll be to win a round then. i used to occasionally do a hardcore challenge on the KF1 server i owned for a bit by which i mean i'd join as a spec by the admin console, and if you got killed i kicked you because none of this coming back from the grave poo poo
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Sep 8, 2016 16:19
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Bilal posted:It's really stupid to assume that the the players should only win some of the time. The point of playing videogames is to win. Nobody who has any grasp of fun wants to play a videogame where they're going to lose most of the time. By current Killing Floor logic, every few minutes there should be a lightning strike that instakills one player at random. Hardcore Challenge. Imagine how rewarding it'll be to win a round then. It makes sense for pvp multiplayer games because if you are constantly winning then you need to play better human opponents. But a coop game? Nah.
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Sep 8, 2016 16:43
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There was talk earlier in the thread about what the MWG counts as in terms of damage type. Well, according to the Trader's "type" filter, the MWG is an electric weapon. Kind of interesting since there are voice lines recorded talking about electric weapons. Makes me wonder about the mystery 10th class.
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Sep 8, 2016 17:19
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Coop games need to be, by definition, harder than competitive games because you don't have other players providing the challenge. It's actually quite common in board games, for example - the Lord of the Rings card game by FFG is a prime example: there's a chance you will lose plenty of times because the game is hard as balls, but that makes the victory sweeter. That said, difficulty has to be designed properly, you can totally botch it (see: Hans)
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Sep 8, 2016 20:54
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So I pulled the Pat in a Suicidal game last night and he did indeed say "one in the pipe" before all of his missile attacks, so if he's not saying it in some games it might be a bug. On that note, though, that's one big difference between Hans and the Pat: they both have one-shot kill attacks, but at least with the Pat you have A) a warning and B) a way to avoid it. If you get hit then you probably hosed up and deserved it. When Hans decides it's removeplayer time there's not much you can do but hope something gets his attention or his AI fucks up.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:09
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Only way to divert Hans attention is to make him stumble.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:36
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Azran posted:Coop games need to be, by definition, harder than competitive games because you don't have other players providing the challenge. It's actually quite common in board games, for example - the Lord of the Rings card game by FFG is a prime example: there's a chance you will lose plenty of times because the game is hard as balls, but that makes the victory sweeter. Uh... No? If you're playing a competitive game, then you have balanced matches when matchmaking is such that you win about 50% of your games. That's different from balanced gameplay, which might involve assessing whether or not all classes are equally viable. Since I've been playing it recently, Overwatch is a good example of this. The matchmaker has led to people having winrates of around 50% (which generated a lot of bitching), but character use rates among top players tend to favor certain characters to a disproportionate extent. That suggests that the matches are balanced, but that the characters are not. This distinction is a lot less clear in co-op games: 1. It might be possible to evaluate class balance by assessing frequency of use. But among what population? In a competitive game, there's a good argument for looking at the best players, because they're the ones maximizing any given class's strengths. In a co-op game, that argument doesn't necessarily hold. Additionally, someone who is really good might honestly be able to make use of each class such that they all seem equally good at a given level of difficulty, even if that isn't the case for the majority of the population. There isn't as strict of a need for all classes to be absolutely balanced relative to one another. 2. What does win-rate mean in a co-op game? If my team wins X% of its games, is that based on whether or not the game throws some absurd bullshit at us some times? I played a game of Spider Solitaire today in which I got hosed over by probability: the game was literally unwinnable from the start, and I didn't know it until toward the end. I don't feel good about winning games because I didn't get hosed over by probability. The harder I make the game, the more likely it is probability will screw me. That doesn't make victory feel better. It just makes losses more frustrating. If I've got the skills and knowledge to win a co-op game 100% of the time, then I expect to win 100% of the time. I do not expect someone to come by and say "Oh, you're doing too well, we need to arbitrarily make the game harder." And just generally, your assertion doesn't make any sense. In a game with multiple tiers of difficulty, what does it mean for it to be harder than a competitive game? Which difficulty is the one at which you should win only 50% of the time? And what's the mechanic that prevents you from rising about that win rate?
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Sep 8, 2016 23:02
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Oh, I almost forgot another important point: people self-select into difficulties. The win-rate for Suicidal, for example, is the win-rate for people who chose to play Suicidal, and not the entire population of KF2 players. If Tripwire believes that only 10% of players should be able to win at HoE, and they glance at the win-rate and see that it's 25% and decide to make it harder on that basis, they're not taking the right approach.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:28
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Bilal posted:It's really stupid to assume that the the players should only win some of the time. The point of playing videogames is to win. Nobody who has any grasp of fun wants to play a videogame where they're going to lose most of the time. By current Killing Floor logic, every few minutes there should be a lightning strike that instakills one player at random. Hardcore Challenge. Imagine how rewarding it'll be to win a round then. Look that dude got insta-killed by lightning cause he was too busy staring at stalkers to notice the rainbow colored fire he was standing in  . Balancing with random people is always going to be horrible if they tune the game too tightly with goals/roles in mind. Which is something that has seemed way more notable in KF2 with how low ammo stocks were before and how you pretty much need a zerker to tank Hans' bullshit.Its ok to have some challenge in your coop game, especially when players control how difficult they want things between difficulties and what lvl perk they bring into it. Game gets too boring if things are too trivial to plow through, occasionally scraping by is a good thing to keeps you attentive.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:29
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Does anyone know how to fix cosmetics not showing up in my in-game inventory? I'll often have to restart the game several times to get them to show up. Sometimes this coincides with the cosmetics not showing up in-game at all, sometimes it doesn't.
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Sep 11, 2016 20:58
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Elysiume posted:Does anyone know how to fix cosmetics not showing up in my in-game inventory? I'll often have to restart the game several times to get them to show up. Sometimes this coincides with the cosmetics not showing up in-game at all, sometimes it doesn't. Also, I cashed out most of my cosmetics the other day. I put in about $40 for various items and loot boxes, and made back $46 while still keeping about 20-25 items and weapon skins. Feeling pretty good about that.
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Sep 12, 2016 06:36
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Just soloD the pat in a 3 man server on hard, had to burn all 3 of his heals to boot since my companions died fast. So I guess that's still possible.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:08
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvxNp7rkObc Friend made of video of us playing bad/broken/weird custom maps. If you're going to watch anything, look at 1:58 for the weirdest map we found.
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Sep 13, 2016 06:29
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"Meat Rain" Also I was on some heavy medication after a medical procedure. I don't always sound so hosed up.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:47
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Theta Zero posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvxNp7rkObc haha, which map was that?
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Sep 14, 2016 01:46
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Severed posted:haha, which map was that? It's called "KF_pd2bank" The guy made a bunch of Payday 2 maps for KF2, some of which are even recognizable, and all of them have that character's giant head floating around somewhere.
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Sep 14, 2016 02:55
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Leveling up takes too long imo. Certainly the early levels you don't get poo poo for. I want to be 5 after one game god drat it
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Sep 14, 2016 04:30
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Sonic the Hoxhaist posted:Leveling up takes too long imo. Certainly the early levels you don't get poo poo for. I want to be 5 after one game god drat it Play on the manly hard difficulties. Start trying Suicidal around 10 or so (or 15 if you're not too confident) and you'll get half a level from each game. It's not fast but it's faster.
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Sep 14, 2016 04:46
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Alternatively, use the trainer map and just grind it solo on HoE.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:12
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Yea if you know how to play the game just cheat your way to 25, gently caress grinding up all those classes.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:34
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Skoll posted:Alternatively, use the trainer map and just grind it solo on HoE. I went from level 0 to 1 after one run of that and didn't like the idea of doing that 50 more times
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Sep 14, 2016 12:18
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Sonic the Hoxhaist posted:I went from level 0 to 1 after one run of that and didn't like the idea of doing that 50 more times Are you sure the server was set to HoE? I've seen a few training servers set to Normal for some reason.
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Sep 14, 2016 13:25
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Fairly certain, but it was a while ago who knows
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Sep 14, 2016 13:32
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Sonic the Hoxhaist posted:I went from level 0 to 1 after one run of that and didn't like the idea of doing that 50 more times I didn't say it wasn't boring.
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Sep 14, 2016 14:13
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Tried playing again the past couple of days after stopping 6 months ago. The game is much better then it use to be. I'm not sure how I feel about the medic perk rework. Its the only class that I actually ground up to 25. On one hand I miss the ability to give armor. On the other hand venting musk during every start of zed time is pretty good for keeping team mates healed up close though I wish I got healed as well. The LAR feels much more like the KF1 LAR which is a plus. M14 is sort of meh and the railgun confuses me on how it functions.
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Sep 14, 2016 19:13
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The few times I've seen the medic zed time healing mist in action I hated it because for some godawful reason it makes your teammates aim shake. Did not really appreciate that when I'm trying to pop heads with the Commando.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:48
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Zernach posted:The few times I've seen the medic zed time healing mist in action I hated it because for some godawful reason it makes your teammates aim shake. Did not really appreciate that when I'm trying to pop heads with the Commando. Yeah, the idea of a medic's healing AOE actually loving over nearby teammates is just ...there's no justification for that.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:50
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"It tested well internally!"- all the justification Tripwire needs 
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Sep 14, 2016 22:53
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Revolver Bunker posted:M14 is sort of meh and the railgun confuses me on how it functions. The railgun is absolutely disgusting in capable hands. The M14 is pretty bad, though. It would be a lot better if the scope magnification weren't so high, and if it weren't such a heavy gun. IMO you're better off rolling with a .500.
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Sep 15, 2016 00:16
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