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Sigma-X posted:It turns them into hard counters that draw your opponent a card for the low price of 2 cards and 2 turns of 1U and then 1BB, which of course is much more exciting than casting dissipate, which only costs you 1 card and doesn't draw them any. Remand doesn't cost a card.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:48
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Effects like that are good when you can Cabal Therapy at least one from their hand but if you only hit stuff in their deck then you are way behind. This takes away even that upside.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:50
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I think the funny thing is that while I gave mcmagic poo poo about the "Kalitas in Jund" thing (mostly because he just dismissed it without any explanation whatsoever), but I don't even really understand what makes the card particularly great in the deck. I'm not a great deckbuilder, so I play the card in Jund when I play Modern because everyone else does, but I often find myself wondering why I'm not just playing more Scavenging Oozes given that most of the time you drop a Scooze it doesn't die to bolt assuming you have the same amount of mana you did when you would have dropped Kalitas. I assume its something metagamey that I'm not thinking about.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:51
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Angry Grimace posted:I think the funny thing is that while I gave mcmagic poo poo about the "Kalitas in Jund" thing (mostly because he just dismissed it without any explanation whatsoever), but I don't even really understand what makes the card particularly great in the deck. I own a playset of Kalitas, I don't own any Huntmasters.  e: For real though Kalitas synergies really well with all your removal and untapping with him and killing one creature usually means you've won. Huntmaster immediately impacts the board but doesn't get as big and can't gain you as much life. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 18:57
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Angry Grimace posted:I think the funny thing is that while I gave mcmagic poo poo about the "Kalitas in Jund" thing (mostly because he just dismissed it without any explanation whatsoever), but I don't even really understand what makes the card particularly great in the deck. I kinda feel similarly. It's good in some matchups that sac creatures intentionally and the lifelink can be a really stabilizing force. When Abzan Melira combo was bigger, this was a bigger bomb. Maybe I'm also missing something, but I'm kinda indifference about Kalitas a lot of the time.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:58
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Kalitas interacts really, really well with removal, I am assuming is part of it.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:58
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Angry Grimace posted:I think the funny thing is that while I gave mcmagic poo poo about the "Kalitas in Jund" thing (mostly because he just dismissed it without any explanation whatsoever), but I don't even really understand what makes the card particularly great in the deck. Kalitas works well with removal. But more importantly it doesn't die to a bolt the turn you play it. That 4 toughness is really important. Unless you have 3 open Green mana Scooze dies the turn you cast it to bolt/helix. Oh and it blocks better, and can survive an Anger of the Gods you boarded in.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:00
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ThePeavstenator posted:Effects like that are good when you can Cabal Therapy at least one from their hand but if you only hit stuff in their deck then you are way behind. This takes away even that upside. That's basically what i said to everyone i see freaking out over an infinite obliteration that can hit walkers etc. Thenexception is if you just can't beat certain cards. Jon Finkel said after the pro tour that adding a single pbliteration to the main deck, thanks to dark petition finding it when necessary, made the ramp matchup favourable for the original seasons past deck. (That changed as the ramp deck diversified it's threats anyway, but the point stands: this effect can be powerful, provided the card you're removing is worse for yiu than the card disadvantage.)
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Sep 8, 2016 19:02
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Madmarker posted:Kalitas works well with removal. But more importantly it doesn't die to a bolt the turn you play it. That 4 toughness is really important. Unless you have 3 open Green mana Scooze dies the turn you cast it to bolt/helix. I get that, but the deckbuilding concession towards getting 3 green sources on turn 4 isn't actually very high, particularly in Modern. I also feel as though the option to turn 2 drop a Scooze when you know your opponent isn't going to drop it (with 6-8 sources of targeted discard we're playing with perfect information a lot of the time) is valuable. I'm certainly not denying that the reason I feel this way is possibly just anecdotal evidence that Scavenging Ooze consistently overperforms for me personally in both Jund and Abzan. ThePeavstenator posted:I own a playset of Kalitas, I don't own any Huntmasters. The reason the thought came up was I was reading a thread about whether Chandra, Torch of Defiance is good enough to be the 4-drop in Jund and people were saying "well its not better than Kalitas!" and my initial thought was that I would rather play Torch of Defiance and increase the number of Scoozes I was playing to compensate for the main-board graveyard hate you get out of Kalitas. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 19:03
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Huh. When did WotC start doing twitch ads? I just had one for Kaladesh show up when I tuned into a stream.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:04
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Count Bleck posted:Huh. When did WotC start doing twitch ads? They did it at Shadows too. Dunno if they did it for eldritch. Clever move, tbh.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:05
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Angry Grimace posted:I get that, but the deckbuilding concession towards getting 3 green sources on turn 4 isn't actually very high, particularly in Modern. I also feel as though the option to turn 2 drop a Scooze when you know your opponent isn't going to drop it (with 6-8 sources of targeted discard we're playing with perfect information a lot of the time) is valuable. Kalitas is less about graveyard hate and more being a threat with no ceiling late game. Although I do run 3 Scoozes because that card is super versatile and overperforms for me pretty much every time.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:11
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Angry Grimace posted:I think the funny thing is that while I gave mcmagic poo poo about the "Kalitas in Jund" thing (mostly because he just dismissed it without any explanation whatsoever), but I don't even really understand what makes the card particularly great in the deck. Abzan company decks was big when it first caught on. It stopped the combo. It also helped the burn matchup and was pretty big in grindy mirror/junk/whatever match ups with creatures. Its actually being used less now than it was before as azban company decks are less common. I actually am down to 1 as of right now and will be down to zero at rotation most likely.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:14
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Angry Grimace posted:I get that, but the deckbuilding concession towards getting 3 green sources on turn 4 isn't actually very high, particularly in Modern. I also feel as though the option to turn 2 drop a Scooze when you know your opponent isn't going to drop it (with 6-8 sources of targeted discard we're playing with perfect information a lot of the time) is valuable. Kalitas is a 3/4 with lifelink. He blocks hella well, he swings hella well. He gets you a lot more life than Scooze without even a single creature dying. He's great against Burn, which plays a lot of tiny babies and only really has bolt for removal. Scooze only matches the ability to not die to bolt if two things have died and you have two green mana open after casting it. He's passive with his graveyard hate while Scooze requires mana. Kalitas deactivates Melira combos even when you tap out for it, and they can't overwhelm him ability to remove. And he makes mans each time it happens, and he can eat them. The deckbuilding concessions for double black on turn 4 are nothing when the deck already wants it on turn 3 for Liliana, at that.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:14
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Sickening posted:Abzan company decks was big when it first caught on. It stopped the combo. It also helped the burn matchup and was pretty big in grindy mirror/junk/whatever match ups with creatures. Its actually being used less now than it was before as azban company decks are less common. I actually am down to 1 as of right now and will be down to zero at rotation most likely. You mean when they unban BBE?
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Sep 8, 2016 19:18
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TheKingofSprings posted:You mean when they unban BBE? If they unban Bloodbraid Elf RUG Delver is going to be loving insane.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:19
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bloodbraid elf is a card for people who are boring and have no culture
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Sep 8, 2016 19:23
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I don't really see how unbanning BBE makes Modern more interesting. Mostly it just makes Jund (literally) randomly better and Jund is already a Tier 1 deck. Sure, maybe it makes some other deck viable or better, but it mostly does the same thing there: randomly make it better. Cascade is a stupid mechanic to begin with, but Bloodbraid Elf specifically has very little interesting play to it because the way BBE plays is to literally just give you value at random. Even if we assume BBE wouldn't break the format (I don't think it would), it doesn't make Modern a better format. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 19:24
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rabidsquid posted:bloodbraid elf is a card for people who are boring and have no culture Actually thats true of all cards that I dont play
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Sep 8, 2016 19:24
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Fish Of Doom posted:It makes Eternal Scourge kind of like squadron hawks. I want to see a Queen Marchesa list!
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Sep 8, 2016 19:24
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rabidsquid posted:bloodbraid elf is a card for people who are boring and have no culture the card that was meant for me
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Sep 8, 2016 19:24
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enjoy your ketchup on steak of a card, mandatory lesbian!!!
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Sep 8, 2016 19:26
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Part of me wants to live in the metal-as-hell world of BBE into Visions vs BBE into K-Command.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:26
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ThePeavstenator posted:I want to live in the metal-as-hell world of BBE into Visions vs BBE into K-Command. Fixed
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Sep 8, 2016 19:27
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 Target self, name "relentless rats"  E: oh doesnt work, only draws when exiled from hand, rdfc 
Bread Set Jettison fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 19:33
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Bread Set Jettison posted:
Drop a lab maniac, game
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Sep 8, 2016 19:35
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ThePeavstenator posted:Drop a lab maniac, game We've found the combo. We've done it.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:36
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Now we just need to optimize this. Playing Spoils, Pact of Negation, Angel's Grace, Phyrexian Unilfe, and Ad Nauseum will help assemble and protect the combo. Wait...
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Sep 8, 2016 19:39
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I was wrong, read my edit. It only draws when it exiles a card from hand.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:39
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Might as well go completely bananas and play Visons, KCommand and Bloodbraid in the same deck. There's no Wasteland, after all. they definitely aren't unbanning Bloodbraid with Visions around.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:41
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 Who is gonna be the first one to not read the loving cards?
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Sep 8, 2016 20:04
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Toshimo posted:
You have to sacrifice each token to the planeswalker uniqueness rule, so the end step exile never happens.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:07
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ThePeavstenator posted:You have to sacrifice each token to the planeswalker uniqueness rule, so the end step exile never happens. Go on...
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Sep 8, 2016 20:10
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How is the exile step relevant? (edit for clarity)
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Sep 8, 2016 20:11
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Might as well play four Altar of the Brood there, too, since it gives you redundancy and doesn't require a third color.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:12
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ThePeavstenator posted:You have to sacrifice each token to the planeswalker uniqueness rule, so the end step exile never happens. This works right? You sacrifice the original planeswalker keeping the token. You then -2 the tokenwalker creating another tokenwalker and repeat the process?
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Sep 8, 2016 20:12
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Kalli posted:This works right? You sacrifice the original planeswalker keeping the token. You then -2 the tokenwalker creating another tokenwalker and repeat the process? Yeah so I don't see what the problem is with that combo.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:13
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ThePeavstenator posted:Yeah so I don't see what the problem is with that combo. The problem is that Saheeli is already pre-ordering at $25.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:14
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ThePeavstenator posted:You have to sacrifice each token to the planeswalker uniqueness rule, so the end step exile never happens. Make Saheeli an artifact planeswalker using Liquimetal Coating, minus her, targeting herself. Makes an artifact planeswalker named Saheeli, sac the original to the legendary rule, opponent loses 1 life. Minus the token artifact planeswalker named Saheeli, copying itself... Repeat for kill.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:14
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odiv posted:How is the exile step relevant? That's the only problem I could see someone having with that combo. They think that they die at end of turn but they actually get exiled. The combo isn't relying on EOT death though. Count Bleck posted:Make Saheeli an artifact planeswalker using Liquimetal Coating, minus her, targeting herself. Yeah I'm trying to figure out why the cards need to be read for that combo.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:14
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