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thespaceinvader posted:Yup, confirming Cleric|STRanger is extremely good. Take BCL, Weapon of Astral Flame and Mighty Hew, then forget you're a Cleric forever, at least until Valourous Charge comes up, or you want to take Tactical Warpriest. Don't forget the level 7 power Warning Strike. OA against the enemy if he attacks someone else. Catch 22 a mother fucker with the help of your defender. Tactical Warpriest is one of the best Paragon Paths period. Its level 16 mark is amazing, and if you combine it with Heavy Blade Opportunity, you can straight up punish with Twin Strike as a Ranger hybrid. This is on top of the no questions asked +1 to AC, +half level to damage when spending an AP, AND the ability to call for a reroll every encounter - all of which you get at level 11. But, yeah, Cleric/Ranger is really the best way to go for two-blade Rangers, if only because Battle Cleric's Lore saves you like three defense feats (chain mail, scale, and Two-weapon defense). Gotta pick up Durable, though, because a base of six healing surges seems kind of... poo poo. Especially if you want to take advantage of being an off defender.
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Sep 8, 2016 18:38
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I'll never understand hybrid chat. I feel like I could play 4e forever and never run out of vanilla options.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:02
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In most cases it's a bit incomprehensible. For Barbs and Strength Rangers hybridding Cleric basically fixes the base class's first level weaknesses and then you forget about it entirely.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:08
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When I tried it I was converting a 5e light domain cleric and a straight laser cleric didn't look blasty enough for my tastes until I added invoker. That was a lot of fun while the campaign lasted.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:12
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Mendrian posted:I'll never understand hybrid chat. I feel like I could play 4e forever and never run out of vanilla options. Honestly, unless I am at a table with a bunch of seasoned 4e players, I try and talk the DM into banning Hybrids altogether. Not that I think they are overpowered, but for some people the siren song of that level of customization and personalization is irresistible. I know it is for me. Which would be fine, IF, building hybrids wrong couldn't simply make your character non-functional.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:13
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I mostly see hybrids brought up when a 3e/PF player decides to try 4e for the first time.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:17
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Yukari posted:Is there errata somewhere that allows people hybriding/MCing cleric to take Battle Cleric's Lore instead of Healer's Lore, or is that something everyone just does? Yeah, I can't find errata anywhere, mostly since Wizard's list of errata either down or I can't find it. I'm assuming it's possible since I'd imagine the DDI builder allows it?
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Sep 8, 2016 19:32
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I don't like hybrids because I have one fellow player who always makes the worst, most unusable worthless hybrid PCs and they drag the party down and I want him to die.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:34
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Yukari posted:Is there errata somewhere that allows people hybriding/MCing cleric to take Battle Cleric's Lore instead of Healer's Lore, or is that something everyone just does? You can do it in the builder. Basically, all this hub-bub about "hybriding cleric is great!" comes from the fact that the designers forgot to take away this option in hybriding, allowing you to stack on this really good feature to any Strength- or Wisdom-based character.
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Sep 8, 2016 19:37
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:You can do it in the builder. Basically, all this hub-bub about "hybriding cleric is great!" comes from the fact that the designers forgot to take away this option in hybriding, allowing you to stack on this really good feature to any Strength- or Wisdom-based character. Can you do it in the Offline Character builder? If so, how?
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Sep 8, 2016 20:02
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ProfessorCirno posted:The only real problem with Cleric|Barbarian is that you aren't Fighter|Barbarian, which I feel fits better. Or Monk|Barbarian, which not only works, it works real well in ways it shouldn't. Cleric|Barbarian fits into an entirely different slot than the Fighter|Barb or Monk|Barb, though. It's something you pick to augment your raw healing in a party that's a bit lacking in that area. Maybe you're running two hybrid leaders, maybe your 'main' leader is an Artificer who lacks a bit in their raw healing power. The Cleric|Barbarian excels at adding raw healing strength to a group while keeping up striker-level damage output.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:14
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Both Strength Cleric and Barbarian have generic marking abilities as well, on top of access to Tactical Warpriest, so they can off-tank extremely effectively as well.
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Sep 8, 2016 20:45
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Klungar posted:Can you do it in the Offline Character builder? If so, how? 
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Sep 8, 2016 20:56
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Sorry, misread, I thought they were referring to MC Cleric/Initiate of the Faith.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:25
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Getting it through MC is charops desperate rules shenanigan bullshit. It doesn't say you can anywhere at all - it just became a loving thing that people started thinking you could totally do if you read this line or these two words specifically or some such rot.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:34
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ProfessorCirno posted:Getting it through MC is charops desperate rules shenanigan bullshit. It doesn't say you can anywhere at all - it just became a loving thing that people started thinking you could totally do if you read this line or these two words specifically or some such rot. I never heard anyone say, though it doesn't mean that it hasn't happened, you could get Battle Cleric's Lore through cleric multiclass. The only way I have seen to get it is either being a Templar cleric or Hybriding with Cleric.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:39
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Yeah, that was probably me just being very confused. And the only thing that says you can get Battle Cleric's Lore on a hybrid cleric is the official char builder, right?
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Sep 8, 2016 22:36
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Yukari posted:Yeah, that was probably me just being very confused. And the only thing that says you can get Battle Cleric's Lore on a hybrid cleric is the official char builder, right? So.....it's weird....the only thing that says whether or not someone can take Battle Cleric's Lore is in Dragon Magazine #400. And all it says is Battle Cleric’s Lore can be chosen in place of Healers Lore, it mentions no prerequisite as to which class you are. Though the article it is in mentions that these are options intended for str clerics. So if you would gain Healer's Lore, you can sub it out for Battle Cleric's Lore. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Sep 8, 2016 |
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Sep 8, 2016 22:48
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My 4e game has been going smashingly. Moving from level 1 of the Undermountain to levels 2 and 3, I rolled some random rooms using the tables in a 4e Halls of the Undermountain book I picked up. Rolled a library with wooden bookshelves lining the walls (room purpose roll) and a lectern with an old book resting on it (natural room feature). Upon inspection of the room they find that everything is sticky (magical room feature). I reasoned Halastar protected this library with some magical adhesive to preserve these books. I forget but the warlock and cleric each picked up a couple of sticky books. After defeating some orcs the PCs discover that a section of the wall opens into a maze of narrow passages (room purpose). After navigating the maze expecting to be attacked, one of the passage ways opens up to a room with a large gong (natural room feature). One of the PCs talks another into ringing the gong and an illusory beholder floats in the room (magical room feature) and the ranger fails the fear check I made they all perform. I reasoned this is just a weird Halaster thing to scare away people from going farther down in the Undermountain. Then I started getting results that were all over the place so I combined some results. They found a crypt with stone coffins lining one side and portraits lining the other. There was also a goblin skull laying on the floor or one of the coffins I don’t remember. The PCs could talk to the portraits and find out about who they were, why the decided to be buried in the Undermountain, and a little about Halaster and some of his apprentices. The portraits allowed the PCs to take some loot from one of their coffins if they would take the goblin skull: talking goblin skull speaks only lies (magical room feature). The PCs don't speak goblin and are now looking for a translator. I think this will be fun. The PCs made it to level 3, saved some dwarves from some orcs, the dwarves lead them to Spiderhaven; a gnome settlement along the river that passes through the third level of the Undermountain. The PCs do some stuff and then hire gnomes to take them down river on rafts. They fight orc minions for I believer 25 or 30 rounds of combat and kill like 80 something. Now the PCs are in Skullport doing stuff. I have tricked them into believing a dwarf they met can supply them information about the town but said dwarf works for the beholder slave master and has plans on jacking the PCs at some point. After Skullport and the Undermountain the PCs should all be 10+ and I am thinking of just sending them to the Tomb of Horrors because why not. I guess you can tell what kind of D&D I like. But 4e is super player friend on recovery from status effects and HP loss. Here are some questions Are there other items like Potion of Life or Raise Dead ritual or should I just keep options simple? The PCs were attacked by a Kraken on the river and fought off the tentacles but they wanted to chase after it. Realizing they couldn’t go under water they have since bought the ritual for Water Breathing. Is there any good source for say underwater combat for 4e? I guess I will just think three dimensionally about movement in combat. Dragonborn Ranger is going Scion of Arkhosia Drow Warlock Infernal Pack is going Hellbringer Dwarf Cleric of the Raven Queen is going Stone Keeper Half-Orc Paladin of the Raven Queen is undecided: could go Bloodfury Savage or Astral Weapon. Anyone have a different idea for the half-orc?
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Sep 9, 2016 05:07
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Son of Mercy is amazing for a Straladin if he wants to exploit slowing + proning shenanigans via World Serpent's Grasp. Plus they mass-mark, which is the main reason you go Half-Orc as a Paladin. Otherwise my go to is Champion of Order so that you can add an opportunity attack to your Divine Challenge punishment. Heavy Blade Opportunity and a good at-will with feat support (Holy Strike with Power of Strength, for example) will go a long way in making sure punishment is violent and brutal. Oh, and they apparently love smiting the poo poo out of elementals and demons, so throw them in every now and again to see your paladin shine (with radiant light, because he's dealing +2d6 radiant against challenged elementals/demons). Underwater combat has a small blurb in the Rules Compendium. I'm pretty sure it works much like flight does three-dimensionally, but with the added fun of rolling skill checks if you don't have a swim speed. And of course trying not to drown.
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Sep 9, 2016 07:38
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No Luck Needed posted:After Skullport and the Undermountain the PCs should all be 10+ and I am thinking of just sending them to the Tomb of Horrors because why not. I guess you can tell what kind of D&D I like. One of my groups ran Tomb of Horrors and were really disappointed with it; a lot of the traps are dumb/boring and there are a lot of just empty rooms and tunnels that go nowhere, which felt like a big waste of time.
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Sep 9, 2016 13:37
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Son of Mercy is also great for a Straladin pretending to be a striker who just happens to be able to mark people. Along with that one Sailor Moon encounter power that lets you attack at range.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:36
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Son of Mercy is how I went with my Straladin of the Raven Queen, I very much recommend it. I also took the moon crescent power because my guy was a Samurai with a fullblade and my mission was to be as anime as possible and that poo poo straight makes you Roronoa Zoro.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:45
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No Luck Needed posted:My 4e game has been going smashingly. Moving from level 1 of the Undermountain to levels 2 and 3, I rolled some random rooms using the tables in a 4e Halls of the Undermountain book I picked up. Underwater combat is basicaly penalties to attack with weapons that aren't spears and crossbows and non-weapons that use fire damage, but otherwise as long as you can breathe and swim (Water Breathing is good but the more expensive one whose name I can't remember is better) you're mostly fine. I'd suggest just glossing over the skill checks and breathing and treating it like any other 3D combat.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:21
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Kurieg posted:Son of Mercy is also great for a Straladin pretending to be a striker who just happens to be able to mark people. Along with that one Sailor Moon encounter power that lets you attack at range. what sailor moon thing? I dont get this reference fatherdog posted:One of my groups ran Tomb of Horrors and were really disappointed with it; a lot of the traps are dumb/boring and there are a lot of just empty rooms and tunnels that go nowhere, which felt like a big waste of time. I have the original 1E Tomb of Horrors module and will probably use more traps from that then the 4e source material I have. Tomb of Horrors is not a grindy kill monster dungeon, we are doing the Undermountain for that. Tomb of Horrors is more of a death trap with a few guardian beasts sprinkled in, the 4e version has more monsters than the original and no instant death traps so shouldn't be so bad. My job or maybe goal of D&D is to take PCs out of their comfort zone and put them in situations that they have to use their wits and resources to survive. I root for the PCs and maybe fudge a critical hit here and there, but as the rules referee and story narrator I want to keep things fair and moving. Starting at level 1 and going to 10+ in the standard, move room to room killing monsters and sleeping in an inn to recover, is fine but the PCs need more challenges than just higher level goblins with more AC and HP. Taking say the half-orc paladin that loves smashing things and putting him in a situation that requires thinking may not be his cup of tea, but if I do not over do it and do not force the PCs into too much they do not want to do, the PCs will get genuine satisfaction. Sure killing a dragon and getting a new +5 sword is awesome, but there could be a bit more grandeur, hype, and satisfaction if the PC has to earn that sword from pulling it from a stone or solving a tuff puzzle. I really like mixing it up. Spend a few monthis (3-5 game sessions) fighting goblins/orcs/ogres and then throw in a maze or talking statue with a riddle and I bet the PCs will remember that more than fighting 2x their level in CR goblins.
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Sep 10, 2016 01:19
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No Luck Needed posted:what sailor moon thing? I dont get this reference There's an encounter from the Dragon magazine focusing on the moon Goddess that had a Paladin attack power that turns into a range 10 power if you're using a heavy blade because you're cutting a moon into the air that shoots out and hits someone.
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Sep 10, 2016 01:33
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Kurieg posted:There's an encounter from the Dragon magazine focusing on the moon Goddess that had a Paladin attack power that turns into a range 10 power if you're using a heavy blade because you're cutting a moon into the air that shoots out and hits someone. I looked up Son of Mercy and it is not one of their powers, is it just a standard paladin encounter power or one for a paragon path?
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Sep 10, 2016 01:40
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It's just a standard paladin encounter power, level 3 or 7 I think?
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Sep 10, 2016 02:23
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quote:My job or maybe goal of D&D is to take PCs out of their comfort zone and put them in situations that they have to use their wits and resources to survive. I root for the PCs and maybe fudge a critical hit here and there, but as the rules referee and story narrator I want to keep things fair and moving. Starting at level 1 and going to 10+ in the standard, move room to room killing monsters and sleeping in an inn to recover, is fine but the PCs need more challenges than just higher level goblins with more AC and HP. Taking say the half-orc paladin that loves smashing things and putting him in a situation that requires thinking may not be his cup of tea, but if I do not over do it and do not force the PCs into too much they do not want to do, the PCs will get genuine satisfaction. Sure killing a dragon and getting a new +5 sword is awesome, but there could be a bit more grandeur, hype, and satisfaction if the PC has to earn that sword from pulling it from a stone or solving a tuff puzzle. I really like mixing it up. Spend a few monthis (3-5 game sessions) fighting goblins/orcs/ogres and then throw in a maze or talking statue with a riddle and I bet the PCs will remember that more than fighting 2x their level in CR goblins. One of the best sessions I ever played in had my rogue going voluntarily blind and deaf into a room that was so unearthly that using those senses would destroy anyone's sanity. There was no combat, but I had a psychic link back to the party that let them interpret things I was feeling and make checks to help me on my own checks to the other end and acquire whatever the macguffin was. Like, I'd grasp a puzzle cube and the wizard would use INT to help my dex to solve it, or the fighter would help me find the weak point in a barrier I was feeling along.
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Sep 10, 2016 02:33
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Kurieg posted:There's an encounter from the Dragon magazine focusing on the moon Goddess that had a Paladin attack power that turns into a range 10 power if you're using a heavy blade because you're cutting a moon into the air that shoots out and hits someone. Oh hey, I posted about this one. LightWarden posted:
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Sep 10, 2016 07:55
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Kurieg posted:There's an encounter from the Dragon magazine focusing on the moon Goddess that had a Paladin attack power that turns into a range 10 power if you're using a heavy blade because you're cutting a moon into the air that shoots out and hits someone. I guess it shows just how different people's interpretation of the same text can be, because I always saw it as more this 
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Sep 10, 2016 14:53
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Pharmaskittle posted:One of the best sessions I ever played in had my rogue going voluntarily blind and deaf into a room that was so unearthly that using those senses would destroy anyone's sanity. There was no combat, but I had a psychic link back to the party that let them interpret things I was feeling and make checks to help me on my own checks to the other end and acquire whatever the macguffin was. Like, I'd grasp a puzzle cube and the wizard would use INT to help my dex to solve it, or the fighter would help me find the weak point in a barrier I was feeling along. And these were the wizard's BRAAAAAINS! *sticks your hands in wet spaghetti*
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Sep 10, 2016 18:23
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I like the idea because it reminds me of Knightmare
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Sep 10, 2016 19:21
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Pharmaskittle posted:I don't like hybrids because I have one fellow player who always makes the worst, most unusable worthless hybrid PCs and they drag the party down and I want him to die. The first time I played 4e our striker was a hybrid ranger/rogue purely for fluff reasons and utterly refused to even try changing, even though the Thief was exactly what they described, fluff-wise
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Sep 11, 2016 04:37
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Allstone posted:The first time I played 4e our striker was a hybrid ranger/rogue purely for fluff reasons and utterly refused to even try changing, even though the Thief was exactly what they described, fluff-wise Edit Jesus gently caress, I did it. It is entirely useless without somewhere to hide, and would probably be better off as just a normal rogue, but if for some reason, you really want to both Sneak Attack and Quarry something, here ya go. Longbowned, Elf Ranger/Rogue The only reason to go Ranger aside from Hunter's Quarry is Precision Ambush Style, for the potential 2d10+10. Everything else that can be a rogue power is, for Sneak Attack damage. Poisoner's Gloves because you apparently love stacking on minor damage. Elf for Treetop Sniper, because reasons. Fleeting Ghost is probably the bread and butter of this build, because At-Will stealth movement. Edit2 Now with feat tax, inherents, and background for that delicious extra +2 stealth. Edit3 VVVVV  I'm not even going to try to rescue that.
girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Sep 11, 2016 |
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Sep 11, 2016 05:40
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My stupid son of a bitch party member did wizard/ranger.
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Sep 11, 2016 06:31
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What unique flavour does ranger/rogue bring to the table that you can't get out of "rogue who trained nature"?
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Sep 11, 2016 06:55
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The Crotch posted:What unique flavour does ranger/rogue bring to the table that you can't get out of "rogue who trained nature"?
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Sep 11, 2016 07:16
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Poison Mushroom posted:Could that theoretically work with throwing wea- GOD DAMMIT NOW I WANNA TRY THIS. Still easier just to go thief. MC Seeker for the nature skill and so you can add dex to your RBAs, take the kinda bizarre Ocular Adept and refluff it, or go drow for the Whatever Fang Paragon, because drow are the best rogues and thieves period 
ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Sep 11, 2016 |
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Sep 11, 2016 07:54
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The Crotch posted:What unique flavour does ranger/rogue bring to the table that you can't get out of "rogue who trained nature"? I've played Ranger|Rogue and it's pretty much for if you just wanna be a dude who shoots people really good all the time. Like, you need some feats to get easier access to CA from range, but having Quarry around (for those times when you just can't get Sneak Attack) is handy. The other side of it (for me) was being able to cherry-pick powers with debilities at every level, but this has everything to do with only building the character out of the PHBs; I'm sure you could probably get similar results going straight Rogue and piling on poo poo from Dragon Magazine and/or the Martial Power books.
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Sep 11, 2016 07:58
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