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hifi posted:If he spent all his money then he wouldn't have any for the afterlife I mean, what if Pharaoh was right? That's just hedging your bets. Pretty smart.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:20
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Volkerball posted:That all makes sense to me. Pretty douchey to drop the stupid "I don't need this, so if you want it, you come to me" business bullshit tho. I dunno it's all kinda bullshit right considering that all the stadium plans in LA were privately funded. The whole 'tourists will pay for it!' bullshit is so stupid and naturally for something that the public is putting the most at risk for they're getting a tiny slice of the profits.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:55
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Adun posted:I dunno it's all kinda bullshit right considering that all the stadium plans in LA were privately funded. The whole 'tourists will pay for it!' bullshit is so stupid and naturally for something that the public is putting the most at risk for they're getting a tiny slice of the profits. Kroenke gets almost all of the benefits though, because he's the majority owner. Adelson is just a financier making an investment here. He's got no reason to make it if the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and on his end, the juice isn't worth much. Personally I think the concession should be in the stadium price if anything. If they don't want to pledge the full $750m then maybe back off on building some big gaudy desert palace.
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Sep 8, 2016 21:59
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Volkerball posted:Kroenke gets almost all of the benefits though, because he's the majority owner. Adelson is just a financier making an investment here. He's got no reason to make it if the juice isn't worth the squeeze, and on his end, the juice isn't worth much. Personally I think the concession should be in the stadium price if anything. If they don't want to pledge the full $750m then maybe back off on building some big gaudy desert palace. I'm not arguing that it's not a great deal for Sheldon Adelson, just that it's a terrible deal for the people of Las Vegas.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:01
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Adun posted:I'm not arguing that it's not a great deal for Sheldon Adelson, just that it's a terrible deal for the people of Las Vegas. I don't think it's bad at all. $50 million a year isn't a lot, and I think adelson made a pretty good case for why it's not going to be very noticeable for people living in the city. And having an NFL team and a top tier stadium for their college program is a hell of a perk.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:05
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Adun posted:I'm not arguing that it's not a great deal for Sheldon Adelson, just that it's a terrible deal for the people of Las Vegas. Not at all
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Sep 8, 2016 22:06
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I don't care about what happens to the Raiders but Sheldon Adelson loving sucks
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Sep 8, 2016 22:11
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Volkerball posted:I don't think it's bad at all. $50 million a year isn't a lot, and I think adelson made a pretty good case for why it's not going to be very noticeable for people living in the city. And having an NFL team and a top tier stadium for their college program is a hell of a perk. Come on we all know that public funding for stadiums is a bad idea. If you want we can dig through all of the various studies and news articles saying why it's a bad deal or you can watch John Oliver on it. More importantly the idea of it not being noticeable and thus a 'free' stadium for the people of Las Vegas is just wrong: you're telling me there's not better infrastructure that this money could be spent on? There's no better municipal project to spend $750mio on than a stadium that'll be used maybe 5% of the year?
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Sep 8, 2016 22:15
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Adun posted:you're telling me there's not better infrastructure that this money could be spent on? There's no better municipal project to spend $750mio on than a stadium that'll be used maybe 5% of the year? Bingo. When people make all their analysis about local businesses and poo poo, they tend to forget having a local NFL team loving owns. It's why cities are going to continue to pay to get teams to come, much to the chagrin of people who want a pound of flesh from the owners on principle.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:24
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Volkerball posted:Bingo. When people make all their analysis about local businesses and poo poo, they tend to forget having a local NFL team loving owns. It's why cities are going to continue to pay to get teams to come, much to the chagrin of people who want a pound of flesh from the owners on principle. It only owns if you're a football fan (or a billionaire that convinces the city to pay for part of your stadium). As much as we all love football public funding for stadiums is a massive tax that benefits us at the expense of the majority of the public that doesn't care about football. This also sounds shady as poo poo: quote:An oversight committee meets Thursday to continue discussing a hotel tax hike to fund the stadium. Proponents from Majestic Realty and the Las Vegas Sands casino want to finish negotiations and get approval from Nevada lawmakers within weeks to prepare their pitch for the NFL’s consideration.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:36
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Volkerball posted:Bingo. When people make all their analysis about local businesses and poo poo, they tend to forget having a local NFL team loving owns. It's why cities are going to continue to pay to get teams to come, much to the chagrin of people who want a pound of flesh from the owners on principle.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:37
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Keyser S0ze posted:how the gently caress does he have a "17 y/o" son? This fact is making my gorge rise 
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Sep 8, 2016 22:40
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Volkerball posted:And having an NFL team and a top tier stadium for their college program is a hell of a perk. UNLV is gonna have to pay to use it now
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Sep 8, 2016 22:46
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Adun posted:It only owns if you're a football fan (or a billionaire that convinces the city to pay for part of your stadium). As much as we all love football public funding for stadiums is a massive tax that benefits us at the expense of the majority of the public that doesn't care about football. You could say the same about welfare spending and public transportation if you don't use it. It's not just football fans. There's all kinds of concerts and things that are available with a stadium that large. There'll probably be some major UFC fights and boxing matches as well being Vegas, and those will be incredible spectator events. They'll also certainly get a super bowl, with all the attention and side events that come along with that. Then there's the soccer friendlies between actual good teams that are fun as hell to watch. A stadium brings a whole bunch of entertainment options that cover the base of pretty much everyone at the expense of a 1% increase in taxes aimed at people who stay in hotels. It's cool and good.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:46
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Volkerball posted:You could say the same about welfare spending and public transportation if you don't use it. It's not just football fans. There's all kinds of concerts and things that are available with a stadium that large. There'll probably be some major UFC fights and boxing matches as well being Vegas, and those will be incredible spectator events. They'll also certainly get a super bowl, with all the attention and side events that come along with that. Then there's the soccer friendlies between actual good teams that are fun as hell to watch. A stadium brings a whole bunch of entertainment options that cover the base of pretty much everyone at the expense of a 1% increase in taxes aimed at people who stay in hotels. It's cool and good. No really it isn't. Lots of research bears this out. People aren't going to Vegas for football or soccer friendlies and there's already UFC fights and boxing matches there! But it really sounds like you want a stadium in Vegas so there's no point in arguing about it.
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Sep 8, 2016 22:50
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bawfuls posted:Actually it's not that great. Yeah, let's not forget it's the Raiders were talking about here
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Sep 8, 2016 22:51
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Volkerball posted:You could say the same about welfare spending and public transportation if you don't use it. 
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Sep 8, 2016 23:08
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a football stadium: literally the same as buses
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Sep 8, 2016 23:09
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Adun posted:No really it isn't. Lots of research bears this out. People aren't going to Vegas for football or soccer friendlies And we've looped back around to where we started.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:10
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Volkerball posted:And we've looped back around to where we started. Sorry that's my mistake. Meant to say 'people won't go to Vegas for football or soccer friendlies'
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Sep 8, 2016 23:13
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Adun posted:Sorry that's my mistake. Meant to say 'people won't go to Vegas for football or soccer friendlies' I meant that we're back to discussing the financial benefits. Like the stadium needs to pay itself and then some or it's bad. It's not an investment. It's a toy. But as far as toys go it's a fuckin sweet one.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:22
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Volkerball posted:You could say the same about welfare spending and public transportation if you don't use it. What the gently caress? Lol.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:42
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Volkerball posted:I meant that we're back to discussing the financial benefits. Like the stadium needs to pay itself and then some or it's bad. It's not an investment. It's a toy. But as far as toys go it's a fuckin sweet one. The whole point is that cities should not be buying toys
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Sep 8, 2016 23:45
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I think people would go to Vegas to see football. I've never been to Vegas and seeing the Eagles there would be a perfect excuse. It's already an international tourist destination, the part in Adelson's interview about bringing more people in during the slow season is one of the areas where he makes a good point. It makes sense for me for a tourist city to tax tourists to bring in more tourists. I'm much more skeptical about public funding for other locations.
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Sep 8, 2016 23:59
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Volkerball posted:I meant that we're back to discussing the financial benefits. Like the stadium needs to pay itself and then some or it's bad. It's not an investment. It's a toy. But as far as toys go it's a fuckin sweet one. Then have the dude with a shitload of money buy the toy himself
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Sep 9, 2016 04:13
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Vegas is a tourist destination, and I think people would make it part of their plans to go to a game if their home team was playing. That said, don't pay public money to increase the wealth of billionaires for little to no appreciable financial benefit.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:16
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Also https://twitter.com/RickVelotta/status/774010373536002049
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Sep 9, 2016 04:23
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Lessail posted:Then have the dude with a shitload of money buy the toy himself If mark had enough shitloads of money he'd build in Oakland.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:33
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Volkerball posted:If mark had enough shitloads of money he'd build in Oakland. Yeah but Mark is only worth $950m so he isn't a billionaire, please pity him.
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Sep 9, 2016 04:35
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Volkerball posted:If mark had enough shitloads of money he'd build in Oakland. Why are you bringing up Mark
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Sep 9, 2016 04:36
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Sep 9, 2016 04:41
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Adun posted:No really it isn't. Lots of research bears this out. People aren't going to Vegas for football or soccer friendlies and there's already UFC fights and boxing matches there! But it really sounds like you want a stadium in Vegas so there's no point in arguing about it. lol China Basin was a poo poo hole before AT&T park was built, so I'm not buying that poo poo as ironclad. In addition, the local taxpayers are barely chipping in.
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Sep 9, 2016 10:27
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I'm not sure how the Vegas tourist taxes are divided up but in Orlando the room taxes and other tourist taxes can ONLY be spent on improving certain things in a given section of the city. Which is one of the reasons why the Orange County Convention Center was able to keep up with Vegas as the largest / second largest convention center in the nation. So these taxes in Orlando don't go to fund roads or schools or welfare or some other program. They're dipping into future convention center expansion. That said if the room taxes ever fall below that $50M or whatever then the city is on the hook. So that may be one of the reasons why Vegas is "different" then say Oakland or San Diego and a Vegas stadium may make financial sense.
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Sep 9, 2016 11:59
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disgusting
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Sep 9, 2016 13:36
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Vball, i love ya buddy, but believing the public should pay for sports stadiums is simply wrong. nothing in this lovely capitalist world is a toy, all of it is an investment. and building a stadium for sheldon adelson is making his investment for him, and allowing him to profit
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Sep 9, 2016 13:37
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Glass of Milk posted:Vegas is a tourist destination, and I think people would make it part of their plans to go to a game if their home team was playing. You know how the Raider fans show up in San Diego and it's like another home game? Mark thought that was so cool, he thought he'd give every other team the same opportunity by moving to Vegas.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:53
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I just want Vegas to fail and for the Chargers to stay in San Diego so the Los Angeles Raiders can return to LA and Eazy-E can return from the grave and usher in the endtimes.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:45
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Maybe Vegas would be desperate enough to take such a horrible deal if they didn't have a brand new untitled major sports team coming to town for sure and playing right where all tourists can easily get. One that has five times as many home games, which is the only thing that matters if you want to try to argue for bullshit like helping surrounding businesses. As it is, bad timing.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:49
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I prefer Raider fans to stay hidden thanks.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:07
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Ron Jeremy posted:You know how the Raider fans show up in San Diego and it's like another home game? I'm only ok with it if they put slot machines at every seat in the stadium. Penny slots for the nosebleed section and $5-a-pop ones for club seats. And stripper concessionaires.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:35
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