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theflyingorc posted:Found it! Sherman should have finished the job.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:13
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theflyingorc posted:Found it! And from 2011 (clearly on a smaller scale and with less official approval) quote:The Thai workers were assigned to work at six farms in Hawaii (Captain Cook Coffee Company, Del Monte Fresh Produce, Kauai Coffee Company, Kelena Farms, MacFarms of Hawaii, and Maui Pineapple Farms) and two farms in Washington (Green Acre Farms and Valley Fruit Orchards), harvesting a variety of items from pineapples to coffee beans. The EEOC asserts that the farms not only ignored abuses, but also participated in the obvious mistreatment, intimidation, harassment, and unequal pay of the Thai workers. Sadly I think EEOC lost the case.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:15
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Lol Trump is going to campaign in Maryland next week. He really doesn't know what a battleground state is. I'm very much looking forward to his multiple campaign trips to NY in October. He'll do it too, his ego won't allow him to think that his home state is a guaranteed loss for him.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:16
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theflyingorc posted:Found it! Thanks for finding this. I'd never heard of it before. loving disgusting.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:16
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Thanks for finding this. I'd never heard of it before. i didn't click the link but sharecropping was a bare step better than actual slavery and a lot of poor farmers basically ended up in de facto slavery-but-not-slavery through exploitative debt cycles. it was really bad and a big reason, aside from legal oppression from law enforcement to maintain the prebellum status quo (which also sentenced black men to years of labor for petty or even nonexistent crimes), which drove so many black americans to northern cities
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Sep 9, 2016 19:19
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Iron Crowned posted:There are battlegrounds in Maryland How many campiagn offices does he have there? Probably under 2 digits, maybe a negative number.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:20
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Lightning Knight posted:alright. You're a good dude and gettin' mad about racism is never dumb. theflyingorc posted:also did you know that literal, not metaphorical slavery continued in pockets of the south up through the 30s/40s, and some people think it might have been happening as late as the 50s? I know for a fact this is true. A good friend of mine's grandfather was a slave in the twentieth century. Her mother has a photograph of him in chains with an automobile in the background.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:21
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Thanks for finding this. I'd never heard of it before. I haven't watched this, but there's apparently a PBS documentary on it, spanning from 1865 until 1945 http://www.pbs.org/tpt/slavery-by-another-name/watch/ If anyone gives it a watch, share anything interesting. I've always find it interesting that most history classes teach it as "and then the Civil War ended, so slavery ended". The transition of millions of people to becoming free, but having nothing, I thought would be interesting. I didn't realize it it was also horrifying.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:21
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LogisticEarth posted:Ahahaha, is that true? I had no idea. Yep. http://www.businessinsider.com/why-is-the-confederate-flag-flown-outside-the-us-2015-6
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Sep 9, 2016 19:21
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DemeaninDemon posted:Sherman should have finished the job. 
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Sep 9, 2016 19:21
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Every time the thread descends into this poo poo it's important to remember your fantasy genocide would nuke the majority of black people living in the US too.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:23
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Oh no, now you've kicked off the Sherman derail. For the record, I live in the south and I can appreciate all the Sherman jokes as just being jokes.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:23
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Every time the thread descends into this poo poo it's important to remember your fantasy genocide would nuke the majority of black people living in the US too. That wasn't my intention and I was posting for comedy purposes only. WampaLord posted:Oh no, now you've kicked off the Sherman derail. 
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Sep 9, 2016 19:23
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Every time the thread descends into this poo poo it's important to remember your fantasy genocide would nuke the majority of black people living in the US too. Thanks that's why it's in make-believe land.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:24
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The Greatest Completely Not Kremlin Backed Thinktank Ever http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clintons-sordid-election-campaign-wikileaks-and-the-russian-connection/5544776
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Sep 9, 2016 19:24
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iospace posted:That wasn't my intention and I was posting for comedy purposes only. Not mad at you, just heading it off at the pass.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:24
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Trabisnikof posted:Let's test your theory out.... As a history major, woof. To paraphrase my professor, Edmund Drago: "When you don't know anything about the Civil War you believe it's about slavery. Then you learn a bit more and discover it's actually all about States rights, economic differences, institutional differences and tribalism. Then you learn enough to have an educated opinion and realize it really was about slavery after all."
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Sep 9, 2016 19:26
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Everyone in this thread who I disagree with is so pedantic and stupid. All the people I agree with are smart and cool though. Glad I'm on the correct side.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:26
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i didn't click the link but sharecropping was a bare step better than actual slavery and a lot of poor farmers basically ended up in de facto slavery-but-not-slavery through exploitative debt cycles. it was really bad and a big reason, aside from legal oppression from law enforcement to maintain the prebellum status quo (which also sentenced black men to years of labor for petty or even nonexistent crimes), which drove so many black americans to northern cities Yeah, I'm pretty familiar with sharecropping from a few Southern history courses I took in college. At one point I worked with a black man who grew up as a cotton sharecropper. I don't think he was even aware of why that blew my mind. This particular story is pretty messed up though.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:26
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Iron Crowned posted:There are battlegrounds in Maryland I don't think he realizes that his ideological wing of the debate didn't actually win at Antietam.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:28
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Quickly chiming in to say that second N in "Fuckinn' beautiful" is a stroke of genius eye-dialect.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:28
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theflyingorc posted:Found it! Thank you for this.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:29
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Every time the thread descends into this poo poo it's important to remember your fantasy genocide would nuke the majority of black people living in the US too. Hey i just want to nuke the white enclaves. Want to finish the job my ancestor helped take part in.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:29
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Stereotype posted:Everyone in this thread who I disagree with is so pedantic and stupid. All the people I agree with are smart and cool though. Glad I'm on the correct side. Welcome to the Republican party.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:30
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I'm actually not familiar with what made sharecropping nearly slavery, anyone care to explain? (that article discusses a boy who signed on as a worker at a farm, and then got tied to a tree and whipped because he signed a contract with a DIFFERENT farm when his first contract ran out. When I say literal slavery in the 1900s, I Am Not Joking)
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Sep 9, 2016 19:31
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theflyingorc posted:I'm actually not familiar with what made sharecropping nearly slavery, anyone care to explain? It was basically feudal serfdom and debt slavery.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:35
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theflyingorc posted:I'm actually not familiar with what made sharecropping nearly slavery, anyone care to explain? farming is expensive, and you only get paid once a year, at harvest time (typically). farming requires going into debt for equipment, seeds, farm stuff, and if you're lucky you pay back that debt at harvest time along with enough money to see you through the year. a bad harvest can wipe you out financially, this happened all the time in the early 20th century to small farmers and is why the government does so much to stabilize crop prices if you're an southern black sharecropper you basically pay rent to the land owner (not redistributing land was a huge failure of reconstruction) who is typically the same white dude who owned the plantation before the war. except he also controlled the books, which recorded your debt, which could magically increase for mysterious reasons overnight, while also manipulating the terms by which your labors paid back that debt. so it was super easy for landlords to place their legally free but economically notfree farm workers in inescapable debt, at which point there's all kinds of legal horrors that can be inflicted on you like selling your debt to someone else so you work for them now and if you argue about it we send you to debtors prison, etc. slavery was banned on paper but in reality an elaborate system to control black people quickly popped up to replace it and keep the status quo intact boner confessor fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 19:35
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theflyingorc posted:I'm actually not familiar with what made sharecropping nearly slavery, anyone care to explain? Night10194 posted:It was basically feudal serfdom and debt slavery. When they were whipping him the men yelled, "One cannot serve two masters".
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Sep 9, 2016 19:36
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theflyingorc posted:I'm actually not familiar with what made sharecropping nearly slavery, anyone care to explain? The quick and dirty version is that they created a system of wage and debt slavery to tie black farmers to land they didn't own, but also could not leave because they owed the owners money and could only buy materials and equipment from sources controlled by the owners. Because they owned the stores, the owners would jack the prices up and make sure that black sharecroppers could never make enough to escape their wage and debt slavery. "Slavery" isn't really correct, because broadly speaking it wasn't comparable to chattel slavery. A better analogy is actually feudal European serfdom. But the outcome was basically the same: black people were only free in the nominal sense of not being legally property, but they couldn't move freely, they were tied down by debts, and lived in the ever-present shadow of possible lynchings, race riots, and Jim Crow. edit: another thing, of course, was that the owning and collection of debts was obviously a legitimized and important element of the American legal system the capital class had a vested interest in enforcing. Thus instead of having to spend massive amount of money and resources on dedicated militia systems and enforcing what amounted to a police state to suppress slave rebellion and attempt to prevent their education, they could instead simply socially and legally segregate them and shift the burden of social pacification onto the legitimate legal institutions of debt collection. Meanwhile, black Americans were less likely to rebel, because they were technically free and ingrained with the notion that being debt slaves was "legitimate" because they weren't slaves on the basis of race, you see. Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 19:36
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Lol Trump is going to campaign in Maryland next week. He really doesn't know what a battleground state is. gotta run up the margins in crucial Garrett county.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:40
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And while the sharecropper was getting gouged and abused at home, his wife was likely getting just the same treatment as "the help," including having cleaning supplies docked from her wages and getting accused of theft if she tried to move to a different employer.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:40
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:And while the sharecropper was getting gouged and abused at home, his wife was likely getting just the same treatment as "the help," including having cleaning supplies docked from her wages and getting accused of theft if she tried to move to a different employer. This is another huge thing, and I'm massively guilty of this as a historian, but history likes to erase the experience of black women in the post-war American life, and their struggles to survive a society that didn't value them as people. Always, inevitably, when we discuss post-war, pre-Civil Rights era black struggles, it's framed in terms of sharecropping and implicitly the struggle of men. But black women played just as big a part in that struggle, even though we perceive as a society generally that their positions made them less valuable because farming > house cleaning. Kind of like how today we like to talk about poor Mexican farmers (admittedly including women), but we tend to downplay or forget the struggle of Mexican women working as house keepers or in child care.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:43
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theflyingorc posted:I haven't watched this, but there's apparently a PBS documentary on it, spanning from 1865 until 1945 This documentary is based on a book by the same name, which is very good and very sad.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:thread, please take this post as an example of why being determined to find and call out anything you don't like as an endorsement of racism is actually a really unproductive and stupid way to argue and just makes you look like a tool Might as well lock the thread then
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Sep 9, 2016 19:46
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NippleFloss posted:This documentary is based on a book by the same name, which is very good and very sad. someone doesn't read the op
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Sep 9, 2016 19:48
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Popular Thug Drink posted:someone doesn't read the op that would be everyone
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Sep 9, 2016 19:49
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MariusLecter posted:When they were whipping him the men yelled, "One cannot serve two masters". drat
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Sep 9, 2016 19:56
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theflyingorc posted:I'm trying to find the article, I read an article a few years ago about this topic, and no - I'm not talking about sharecropping. If you've got the local authorities supporting you, you could hide what you were doing pretty easily before modern communication/transportation. It's a video documentary, but what you're talking about is covered in Slavery by Another Name, helpfully linked in the OP: ComradeCosmobot posted:Goon Recommendations
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Sep 9, 2016 19:57
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I was expecting more polls to drop this week since it's now after Labor Day. But there have been hardly any really. I need my fix.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:11
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I was expecting more polls to drop this week since it's now after Labor Day. But there have been hardly any really. I need my fix. I did an informal poll of people online and it turns out that Trump has 60% of the vote and Hillary Clinton is a literal zombie.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:13
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