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Sergg posted:Who were they terrorizing from inside a besieged city? Assad.
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Sep 9, 2016 07:43
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http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36893303quote:When a place has been besieged for years and hunger stalks the streets, you might have thought people would have little interest in books. But enthusiasts have stocked an underground library in Syria with volumes rescued from bombed buildings - and users dodge shells and bullets to reach it.  quote:...Darayya  http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07lhh6x JaN has more credibility in Syria then all off the western goverments, a lot of it is undeserved as they have managed to weaken the opposition due to their own sycophantic actions. They are poison to Syria like Jacobins and Bolsheviks, but for now they are a drug that cannot be dispensed with...if we want to see Syria weaned off then we better start offering some good alternatives. At any rate, there is no possibility that JaN or whatever would ever manage to come out on top on this, if that were to happen most of the gulf would invade.
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Sep 9, 2016 10:18
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54.4 crowns posted:http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-36893303 I'd rather this war go on for another five years. Maybe we can have a 10 year anniversary celebration of the peace process.
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Sep 9, 2016 10:27
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Randarkman posted:The Gulf War and stationing of American troops on the Arabian peninsula arguably played a much greater part in leading the way towards 9/11 than the war in Afghanistan. The war in Afghanistan did play a part too though, as did the war in Lebanon in the 80's.
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Sep 9, 2016 11:52
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54.4 crowns posted:They are poison to Syria like Jacobins and Bolsheviks, but for now they are a drug that cannot be dispensed with...i Please source your Edgy White-Liberal posts next time.
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Sep 9, 2016 11:54
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This thread is going places. I do hope this strike, if really conducted by the US, isn't indicative of a policy shift against rebel groups. Hillary will make it all better!
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Sep 9, 2016 12:21
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What actually is Hillary's plans for Syria? Same as Obama? I'm not that well informed on the US presidential election.
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Sep 9, 2016 12:28
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Laurenz posted:What actually is Hillary's plans for Syria? Same as Obama? I'm not that well informed on the US presidential election. Obama didn't and doesn't have a plan, and neither does Hillary.
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Sep 9, 2016 12:32
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Laurenz posted:What actually is Hillary's plans for Syria? Same as Obama? I'm not that well informed on the US presidential election. Most of what I read has given the impression she's more of an interventionist and would be much more of a hardliner against Putin, in Syria and beyond, but... 
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Sep 9, 2016 12:34
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Friendly Humour posted:I'd rather this war go on for another five years. Maybe we can have a 10 year anniversary celebration of the peace process. poo poo, I'm calling dibs that the end of it all will be just like Vietnam. And by that I mean Erdogan getting the nobel peace prize for 'bringing an end to the war.'
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Sep 9, 2016 12:42
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A rebel victory is bad for the YPG, the only left wing force in Syria.
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Sep 9, 2016 14:17
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With all this talk of the pros and cons of bombing or ignoring or supporting JAS/al-Nusra/al-Qaeda, the consequences of bombing or ignoring or supporting Assad, Russia, and Shia militias, and the same with the Kurds, which is actually a pretty interesting discussing so far though it will probably go off the rails soon, it got me asking a more existential question: What is the US (and Western countries) doing in Syria anyway? I put this as an open question to the thread. What should US goals be? Should it ramp up, should it pull out? Who should it ally with, who should it bomb?
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Sep 9, 2016 15:54
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Panzeh posted:A rebel victory is bad for the YPG, the only left wing force in Syria. at some point, anyone but ISIS winning is the best in terms of how many more people need to get blown up as collateral damage. its so beyond repairable at this point I'm not sure anything other than balkanization and uneasy peace is the result.
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Sep 9, 2016 16:07
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What is Gulen's residency/citizenship status?
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Sep 9, 2016 16:34
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Panzeh posted:A rebel victory is bad for the YPG, the only left wing force in Syria. The loving hand of Assad the Lion will gracefully show Kurds peace and enlightenment once he's done with the other rebels, just as he's done so in Ghouta, Jobar, Darayya, and other cities.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:05
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Just mowing the grass. JN deserved to be bombed. https://youtu.be/-23kmhc3P8U The US has a long memory. JaN leadership was a juicy target.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:07
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Not to say they weren't terrorists who happened to be focusing on somebody else for the moment, but without a clear strategy in Syria it's hard to see how this is anything other than a) an opportunistic strike (as happened once before quite a long time ago?) taken without regard for what it might mean for Aleppo, or b) maybe there was some deal with the Russians, though there doesn't seem to be any new ceasefire news.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:12
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Panzeh posted:A rebel victory is bad for the YPG, the only left wing force in Syria. If you can't beat them, join them. Free Syrian Democratic Forces.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:14
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Sergg posted:The loving hand of Assad the Lion will gracefully show Kurds peace and enlightenment once he's done with the other rebels, just as he's done so in Ghouta, Jobar, Darayya, and other cities. Of course- either winner in the civil war would no doubt want to consolidate their power and that involves crushing Rojava.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:27
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-lebanon-court-idUSKCN11826V
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Sep 9, 2016 17:34
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I am absolutely astonished that Lebanon is still standing as a nation.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:40
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Baron Porkface posted:What is Gulen's residency/citizenship status? As far as I can tell, green carded permanent resident for fifteen years.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:46
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Friendly Humour posted:I am absolutely astonished that Lebanon is still standing as a nation. Lebanon only holds on because the current international system makes it very hard for state to dissolve- even Somalia is still shown on maps, despite not being a country in any meaningful way since the early 90s. Its hard for me not to think a big re-alignment, a re-drawing of borders is coming. It would take an awful lot to happen but it doesn't seem impossible anymore. If there comes a point where the existing international system is hanging by a thread and a guy like Trump gets elected in the US, then we could see huge changes around the world. But who knows.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:55
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Count Roland posted:Lebanon only holds on because the current international system makes it very hard for state to dissolve- even Somalia is still shown on maps, despite not being a country in any meaningful way since the early 90s. Actually, Somalia the country has made a serious comeback in recent years. Al-Shabab has lost most of their strongholds to government forces, and it won't be long before the government is back in control of the entirety of what is traditionally called Somalia, which is an astonishing comeback when you consider that at one point, the government's territory consisted of downtown Mogadishu. 
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Sep 9, 2016 18:21
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A White Guy posted:Actually, Somalia the country has made a serious comeback in recent years. Al-Shabab has lost most of their strongholds to government forces, and it won't be long before the government is back in control of the entirety of what is traditionally called Somalia, which is an astonishing comeback when you consider that at one point, the government's territory consisted of downtown Mogadishu. Hmm, I hadn't realized they'd taken back so much. They being still Kenyan and other AU forces, I assume?
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Sep 9, 2016 18:29
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Count Roland posted:I put this as an open question to the thread. What should US goals be? Should it ramp up, should it pull out? Who should it ally with, who should it bomb? I think I can say with complete certainty that no matter what decision we make it will be the wrong one.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:42
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Count Roland posted:During his election campaign, a satirist got him. Poutine is a greasy food, not the name of the Canadian prime minister.
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Sep 9, 2016 18:51
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Mans posted:Please source your Edgy White-Liberal posts next time. Source? Well... Sam Harris has a project in which the concept is using fmri to identify natural/evolutionary morality that can supplant all others. As you can understand, when he produces something intangible any sane person should tell him to shove that paradgim up his rear end and likewise to any other fucker fueled by identity driven fix idea and ideals ready for breaking. Wheter its Nationalism or rage induced pan Arabism... laissez-faire or Marxism with more apologia then introspection. gently caress off
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Sep 9, 2016 18:59
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Apraxin posted:Probably worth pointing out as well in the context of how little this sort of thing hurt Bush domestically (and maybe even encouraged him to deliberately play it up a little) that when Al Gore, during the presidential debates in 2000, was able to not only name the constituent parts of Yugoslavia, but also to correctly pronounce their political leaders, he was roundly criticized in the media for being a know-it-all liberal elitist. It's a real shame Gore wasn't elected, a real testament to how not-democratic US politics are. Had he been, how much differently things would've gone. 9/11 probably still would've happened, but no silly invasion of Iraq to line the pockets of Dick Cheney's trust fund.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:07
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A White Guy posted:It's a real shame Gore wasn't elected, a real testament to how not-democratic US politics are. Had he been, how much differently things would've gone. 9/11 probably still would've happened, but no silly invasion of Iraq to line the pockets of Dick Cheney's trust fund. Then the GOP would have immediately blamed the Democrats, swept both houses in the midterms, and probably invade Iraq after their Hardline nominee won a sweeping victory against 12 years of American weakness. Then again, 4 extra years.
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Sep 9, 2016 19:33
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Phone posting so I can't put the entire text here, but this fascinating article originally appeared in a Russian news source and is absolutely scathing with regard to the SAA. https://pulsemedia.org/2016/09/09/why-assad-cant-win/
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Sep 9, 2016 19:47
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suboptimal posted:Phone posting so I can't put the entire text here, but this fascinating article originally appeared in a Russian news source and is absolutely scathing with regard to the SAA. quote:In order to win a military conflict, just like in old times, one needs a strong spirit, an unyielding will for victory, trust in oneself and one’s troops, decisiveness, bravery, inventiveness, flexibility and an ability to lead others. All this lacks severely in Assad’s army. It's actually really fascinating how past experiences still colour the attitudes of armies generations afterwards. National myths are powerful things I suppose.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:23
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The article uniquely summarised the problems of the SAA and then came to the oddest conclusion. Russians  He's kind of on the right track though. The problems with the SAA are fundamentally in its command structures, and he's right - it would be easier to dismantle the command structure and start anew, than it would be to reform the current one.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:52
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Mans posted:So sunni al qaeda is bad, shiite al qaeda is good? Serioius question; is there such a thing as shite al qaeda? I really didn't think such a thing existed. Or, are you being edgy ironic by comparing sunni fanatical militia to shite fanatical militia; using "al qaeda" as a catch-all phrase for fanatics of every stripe?
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Sep 9, 2016 21:02
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radical meme posted:Serioius question; is there such a thing as shite al qaeda? I really didn't think such a thing existed. Or, are you being edgy ironic by comparing sunni fanatical militia to shite fanatical militia; using "al qaeda" as a catch-all phrase for fanatics of every stripe? Hezbollah. Not saying I equate the two or agree but that's usually what folks mean by "Shiite Al-Qaeda."
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Sep 9, 2016 21:07
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A White Guy posted:Actually, Somalia the country has made a serious comeback in recent years. Al-Shabab has lost most of their strongholds to government forces, and it won't be long before the government is back in control of the entirety of what is traditionally called Somalia, which is an astonishing comeback when you consider that at one point, the government's territory consisted of downtown Mogadishu. Note that the government has not so much taken this control back by reestablishing state authority or the rule of law, but rather by simply redefining functionally independent communities and warlords as part of the government. Mogadishu has no say at all in policy in Galmudung or Somaliland or elsewhere, and the provincial lines drawn on that map are entirely fantastical with no bearing realities on the ground. The current status quo is essentially that the forces of decentralization won the war and everybody stopped trying to recreate a single state, although the provinces will still fight fight occasional skirmishes with one another over various commercial concerns and Clan conflicts. The international donors who pay for the police and army and courts and the rest of the functions of the central state are constantly pushing to extend state influence and given enough time it looks like they might even be able to bribe everyone into playing along. There is still no effective monopoly on violence however, and force of arms is still the go-to method for resolving conflicts between businessmen and provincial governors (who are typically the same warlords who were fighting in the 1990s). Last year something like 50,000 people were displaced in Galkayo for example when the governors of Galmudung and Puntland started shelling each other to decide who would control the city.
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Sep 9, 2016 21:08
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Count Roland posted:Lebanon only holds on because the current international system makes it very hard for state to dissolve- even Somalia is still shown on maps, despite not being a country in any meaningful way since the early 90s. In response to this and your previous query about "what the hell should the world be doing"; realistically, couldn't we be looking at the new normal for the Middle East and all of North Africa? Population is increasing and there is no more water, as in, most areas are totally hosed. Lack of water, lack of arable land, lack of food; these areas are looking at stagnation and inevitable mass migration with or without civil war being involved. Wasn't the root cause of the first protest in Syria a shortage of food? Even if they stopped fighting tomorrow, there's little that could be done to improve the future outlook in a lot of these areas. Maybe I'm wrong. At the very least, balkanization is probably the only realistic future for what was Syria and Iraq. edit: i think i'm mis-remembering the initial cause of protests in Syria. i thought there was a news story that made a link between recent crop failures, shortages and initial protests but, i can't find it now and not sure it was even about Syria. radical meme fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 21:34
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Although referring to the IRGC's foreign forces (Hezbollah in Lebanon, their myriad Iraqi groups as "Shia al Qaeda" is a major over-simplification, it's not entirely without merit. Afterall, they are radical sectarian militant groups that want to establish a trans-national Islamic semi-theocracy, no matter what their (especially western-facing) PR says.
Radio Prune fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 21:35
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A White Guy posted:It's a real shame Gore wasn't elected, a real testament to how not-democratic US politics are. Had he been, how much differently things would've gone. 9/11 probably still would've happened, but no silly invasion of Iraq to line the pockets of Dick Cheney's trust fund. I'd wage 9/11 wouldn't have happened under Gore, largely because he's the person who would read things like a daily brief titled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" and have a Justice Department committed to chasing down domestic terrorists and not distracted about nipples on statues and Tommy Chong's bongs. The Bush administration didn't care because domestic terrorism was a Clinton problem.
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Sep 9, 2016 21:53
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I found this section amusing in a "gently caress humanity" sort of way.quote:A “barrel bomb” is a type of home-made air ordnance weighting 200 to 1000 kg. It is a section of a wide oil pipeline welded shut with metal plates from both sides and stuffed with a high amount of explosives. A “barrel bomb” is highly explosive and is used to destroy buildings and attack large gatherings of the militants. The fact that he roasts SAA but forgoes the fact how useless this thing is tactically makes me wonder if he were doing some self censorship here.
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Sep 9, 2016 22:10
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