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Warbird posted:How does that work? The lawyer I spoke with said that getting married overseas did dick all for stuff in the states. The lawyer you spoke to is not correct, your state will recognize marriages based on the country in which you're marrying, but the general assumption since marriage equality is: one adult married under the law of a country to only another adult, as long as it fits that pattern it should be recognized by your state without issue. (https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/abroad/events-and-records/marriage.html) There isn't anything special about being married overseas. Most people choose to get a fiance visa, so they're not married before they come, with the requirement that you get married within 90 days upon arrival (see 90 day fiance). Other people sometimes try to get married before they apply thinking that it will skip the fiance visa application process where they try to establish whether your relationship is real or not, but it actually makes things more difficult for you. The sweet spot is having been married for more than 2 years. That allows them to skip a lot of the process and move straight to the permanent green card application for a spouse. The key to all visa issues is the assumptions that embassy workers are taught to have about the applicant. For a Chinese person wanting to visit the US, the assumption is that they will try to overstay their visa, so they have to provide a preponderance of evidence to show that they will not overstay their visa. With a fiance visa, the assumption is that it is not a real relationship and you have to provide evidence to prove them wrong. After you've been married for two years, the assumption is that you are in a real relationship, which means that to deny you they have to provide some kind of real evidence against your relationship, versus a fiance visa where the assumption is that it's not real, they could deny you based on something as simple as a gut feeling. The worst part is being married for less than 2 years, because the assumption is that you are in a relationship which isn't real, but you're locked out of a fiance visa. So either do it with a fiance visa and go through that process, or don't do it until you've been married for two years. As an aside, you could be married legally in another country and presumably still apply for the fiance visa as you weren't married in the US, just don't show them that when you apply. I got a lot of this information from a guy I knew at the Beijing embassy, who helped me out when I was applying for my wife's stuff, after I had helped him out by detailing how I got my daughter registered for both Chinese and American citizenship (not worth the trouble btw).
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Sep 8, 2016 23:10
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Fall Sick and Die posted:I got my daughter registered for both Chinese and American citizenship (not worth the trouble btw). How does that work? China doesn't allow dual citizenship - unless you mean that you just haven't formally renounce one or the other?
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Sep 9, 2016 01:26
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Ragingsheep posted:How does that work? China doesn't allow dual citizenship - unless you mean that you just haven't formally renounce one or the other? Lots of trips to HK
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Sep 9, 2016 02:07
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If you haven't renounced your child's Chinese citizenship, then China considers your child Chinese.
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Sep 9, 2016 02:09
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The Great Autismo! posted:If you haven't renounced your child's Chinese citizenship, then China considers your child Chinese. And you might want to get round to renouncing it. Someone I know of moved to China, got married, had a kid. The woman he married is the daughter of some Level 99 Guanxi Master. They spent a few years in China, then the UK, and her brother even lived with them and the kid for a bit in the UK, but they all went back to China for gently caress knows what reason. She was on track to becoming permanent UK. Now the kid has a travel ban and is not allowed to leave China, for reasons never fully explained but I think the dots are there to connect. If they'd renounced the child's Chinese paperwork then sure, going to live in China would be slightly more of a headache, but also China wouldn't be able to, y'know, keep their kid. The U.K. can't get involved because China says you can only have one nationality and the parents chose Chinese, so other countries' diplomatic poo poo doesn't even enter into it. It's like everything else in China. The rules aren't strongly enforced because they do not exist to prevent behaviour. They exist so that if someone starts to care - either because you went too far or because of politics - then there is a framework in place to gently caress you over as soon as it matters.
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Sep 9, 2016 03:51
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Ragingsheep posted:How does that work? China doesn't allow dual citizenship - unless you mean that you just haven't formally renounce one or the other? It's a long and relatively complex process to register a Chinese child officially, get them their hukou registration, passport, etc. You need a Chinese birth certificate to a CHinese mother specifically in terms of Chinese-non-Chinese parents. The Great Autismo! posted:If you haven't renounced your child's Chinese citizenship, then China considers your child Chinese. This is an oversimplification, there are time limits that the child can be outside of China, it also depends on the sex of the Chinese-citizen parent and also where the child was born. The consulate in Los Angeles offers something called 'travel documents,' though you won't find anything about it on the webpages. It's not a visa but it allows a child to enter China on a U.S. passport regardless of their Chinese citizenship status. The mistake those people made was entering China on a Chinese passport. Even so there is absolutely something that the embassy of the US would do if a child with US citizenship wasn't being allowed to leave, I can't speak for perfidious Albion. Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 04:00
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simplefish posted:And you might want to get round to renouncing it. Could they even go to Hong Kong?
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Sep 9, 2016 04:56
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I don't believe so
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Sep 9, 2016 05:17
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Even so there is absolutely something that the embassy of the US would do if a child with US citizenship wasn't being allowed to leave, I can't speak for perfidious Albion. Like what? Send a sternly-worded letter? Guy moves his family to China after being welcomed into the UK - I don't know if that's a factor, let's hope not. But the rules clearly state China only counts one, so it's there in black and white. The US won't go beyond stern words when China builds military airbases outside its waters, so over a guy working at Happy Giraffe English who married into a political Chinese family and voluntarily moved everything to China, knowing how he'd be treated? I don't see a war breaking out or recalling diplomats, or sending in a Navy SEAL Extraction Team, do you? So the embassy says "This is very wrong and you are bad" and China goes "our country our rules" and then........? I actually am curious, if Bloodnose wants to weigh in.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:47
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If you're from the United States, and your child was born in China to a Chinese mother, and you have an American passport, and you enter China and China says "You are Chinese", the American embassy will not do a single thing about it if you have not renounced your child's Chinese citizenship. China does not care if you have an American passport. If you have not renounced Chinese citizenship, you are Chinese. It's that simple.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:52
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Yeah that kid screwed up.
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Sep 9, 2016 05:59
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can't the kid just renounce it like RIGHT NOW and be like "I'm here illegally, deport me"?
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Sep 9, 2016 06:09
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simplefish posted:Like what? Send a sternly-worded letter? Not even that. They'd send a consular officer to check up on the child's welfare.
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Sep 9, 2016 07:16
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Bloodnose posted:Not even that. They'd send a consular officer to check up on the child's welfare. And if the child isn't chained to the wall, just leave it?
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Sep 9, 2016 07:21
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If the guardian doesn't want the officer to visit the child, welp. If the visit is allowed and the child is chained to a wall. Welp, call the local police and hope they do something.
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Sep 9, 2016 08:15
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Fall Sick and Die posted:The sweet spot is having been married for more than 2 years. This fluctuates from year to year though, in terms of which process is going to take the longest. There are other forums out there in Chinese and English where people keep track of expected wait times for different USCIS centers and stuff and those were better guidelines for wait times in my experience than the official numbers. Fwiw when i did the fiancee visa thing we ended up slower overall than some friends who got married and started their cr1 just a few months before we started our k1 process . Anecdote, i know, but a counterexample nonetheless. There is always the sketch-as-hell tourist visa in to US then long wait for adjustment of status after a surprise wedding option... if you dont care about actual residence and work papers, just entering USA ASAP. I do not encourage this.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:10
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The Great Autismo! posted:If you're from the United States, and your child was born in China to a Chinese mother, and you have an American passport, and you enter China and China says "You are Chinese", the American embassy will not do a single thing about it if you have not renounced your child's Chinese citizenship. This simply isn't true, if you enter China on a Chinese passport, yes that's correct, but if you enter China on an American passport the American government absolutely will treat you as an American citizen, and you guys thinking that "Well the law is the law!!! China is always going to follow the law!!" really are being ridiculous. The US govt has relationships with police officials in at least the Beijing area and can get stuff done quietly without issue. "The law says the American government won't issue a visa to an American citizen!!" well they issue pro-forma visas regularly. "The Chinese government will keep a baby prisoner to punish their parent for wanting to get another citizenship!!" All travel regulations such as this are done at the level of the local PSB, so even if you had some kind of intransigent official who refused to allow you to leave China due to the horrendous insult of wanting to leave the Dragon Nation, I am certain that the US embassy has enough behind-the-scenes clout to have a friendly Beijing official put through a passport request. This is why the US government strongly suggests that children with dual-citizenship travel on an American visa, but if the citizenship is actual and exists, they will still try their best to do something. My child traveled with a pro-forma visa to the US from China and then back on her Chinese passport the first time she left China, and the US government was more than helpful.
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Sep 9, 2016 15:54
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That's why recently there's a fiasco involving second generation Chinese Canadians. They were refused tourist visas and told to apply for "overseas Chinese pass" or something like that
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Sep 9, 2016 15:58
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I'm going to sit down and reread that proper once I'm not at work, but going off of that we should apply for a fiance visa before getting married overseas? We want her to finish her current master's degree, so no applying for a fiance visa until December when she would go back home anyway. The way I figure it, she'll go back overseas for a month or two to see and spend time with the family before coming back on the fiance visa. Alternatively she may just go hang out there until Feb/Aug when I mosey over to get hitched. I was really hoping we could just hop over to the courthouse and get a license (ceremony proper later) and go straight to green card applications, but that's looking like it may not happen before the end of the year.
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Sep 9, 2016 16:01
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With the recent Lee Bo, Gui Min Hai fiasco, China's policy is pretty much one drop Han. Like Han shot first  http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/06/30/China-Refusing-to-Recognize-Canadian-Citizenship-of-Travellers/ But there's an update quote:** Story update, June 30: Since NDP MP Jenny Kwan's initial complaint, the Chinese embassy in Ottawa has issued a statement saying it has not changed its policy, but gives no explanation for why it was asking people to apply for Chinese travel documents. So who knows? It's pretty opaque and theoretical.
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Sep 9, 2016 16:09
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Warbird posted:I'm going to sit down and reread that proper once I'm not at work, but going off of that we should apply for a fiance visa before getting married overseas? We want her to finish her current master's degree, so no applying for a fiance visa until December when she would go back home anyway. The way I figure it, she'll go back overseas for a month or two to see and spend time with the family before coming back on the fiance visa. Alternatively she may just go hang out there until Feb/Aug when I mosey over to get hitched. I was really hoping we could just hop over to the courthouse and get a license (ceremony proper later) and go straight to green card applications, but that's looking like it may not happen before the end of the year. Are you actually legally married in China now? I am not clear... (looking at what you said it seems like you met this girl as a student in the US, and you want to get married there?) Fall Sick and Die fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 16:10
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Fall Sick and Die posted:This simply isn't true, if you enter China on a Chinese passport, yes that's correct, but if you enter China on an American passport the American government absolutely will treat you as an American citizen, and you guys thinking that "Well the law is the law!!! China is always going to follow the law!!" really are being ridiculous. The US govt has relationships with police officials in at least the Beijing area and can get stuff done quietly without issue. "The law says the American government won't issue a visa to an American citizen!!" well they issue pro-forma visas regularly. "The Chinese government will keep a baby prisoner to punish their parent for wanting to get another citizenship!!" All travel regulations such as this are done at the level of the local PSB, so even if you had some kind of intransigent official who refused to allow you to leave China due to the horrendous insult of wanting to leave the Dragon Nation, I am certain that the US embassy has enough behind-the-scenes clout to have a friendly Beijing official put through a passport request. This is why the US government strongly suggests that children with dual-citizenship travel on an American visa, but if the citizenship is actual and exists, they will still try their best to do something. My child traveled with a pro-forma visa to the US from China and then back on her Chinese passport the first time she left China, and the US government was more than helpful. Look it's not my kid, everything's secondhand, I never said it was because they sought citizenship elsewhere (and I don't appreciate your double exclamation marks in paraphrasing me incorrectly), I personally believe it's because the political family makes them a flight risk, at least as far as the CCP is concerned. You can be as certain as you like but Bloodnose is (was?) a US diplomat in China, so I'm going to trust him over your gut feelings. You may argue that it's on a local PSB level but for someone with a national reputation I'm not so sure. Also, if it was that simple, why has it been told to me like they can't leave? thats a pretty obscure tall tale. You're now talking about putting through passport requests but that was never the issue. You may have had a different experience, I'm not disputing that, but if the Chinese government didn't give a gently caress about you then it may well have been seamless. What I'm saying is if they do give a gently caress, you're hosed. I am well aware of exception cases regarding visas, but don't pretend it's the norm. You said it yourself - the US recommends you travel on US paperwork. But what if you don't? And I don't know if that was how it was in this case, but nor do you. And if they did enter on foreign paperwork? They'll "try their best"? Please. That's a meaningless phrase that only serves to acknowledge the limitations at play. I'm not going to get into an Internet slap fight with you. You have had X experience. Good for you. I'm talking about someone with Y experience and you're denying it's happening? Get a loving grip.
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Sep 9, 2016 16:26
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When you say something like, "China says the child can only have one citizenship so therefore it's Chinese" and the UK can do nothing, well you're presumably right in terms of being from some big political family, they very well could keep them prisoner. But for most people it's simply a matter of a dispute over one country's citizenship laws versus the other, and in these situations they absolutely tend to get resolved quietly in favor of whatever country the person actually wants to belong to. The place where it's really sticky is one adult has one citizenship and the other another, and they take their child with dual citizenship to one country and refuse to let them go back to the other, then countries stonewall. But for adults of no importance, no one cares. That's all I was trying to say, and that it is, in fact, possible to navigate this difference in citizenship laws without some random guy on SA being afraid that China will keep his future baby prisoner or something. But as for the Seal Team 6 stuff, I hope you're aware the US semi-regularly gets Chinese citizens out of China, despite it being a major embarrassment to China. Look at Chen Guangcheng's "escape" which required the Chinese government to refrain from enforcing their obvious will at multiple steps. But I'm honestly not trying to argue with you and sorry about the multiple exclamation points.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:04
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Fall Sick and Die posted:Are you actually legally married in China now? I am not clear... (looking at what you said it seems like you met this girl as a student in the US, and you want to get married there?) Met in the States and we both still reside here. Been engaged for the better part of a year. Looking to get married in either country in the hopefully near future.
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Sep 9, 2016 17:26
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Simple solution: don't get married
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Sep 9, 2016 18:32
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Tom Smykowski posted:Simple solution: don't get married
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Sep 9, 2016 18:50
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If you have hot tips on getting her to be able to hang out and work in the states, I'd love to hear them. H1-Bs are motherfuckers to get.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:13
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Warbird posted:If you have hot tips on getting her to be able to hang out and work in the states, I'd love to hear them. H1-Bs are motherfuckers to get. Get married today. Submit adjustment of status papers tomorrow, don't leave until residency secured. Not sure how it works with that process but with k1 there was a separate interim work permit my wife got before the greencard.
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Sep 9, 2016 20:31
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Fall Sick and Die posted:When you say something like, "China says the child can only have one citizenship so therefore it's Chinese" and the UK can do nothing, well you're presumably right in terms of being from some big political family, they very well could keep them prisoner. But for most people it's simply a matter of a dispute over one country's citizenship laws versus the other, and in these situations they absolutely tend to get resolved quietly in favor of whatever country the person actually wants to belong to. The place where it's really sticky is one adult has one citizenship and the other another, and they take their child with dual citizenship to one country and refuse to let them go back to the other, then countries stonewall. But for adults of no importance, no one cares. That's all I was trying to say, and that it is, in fact, possible to navigate this difference in citizenship laws without some random guy on SA being afraid that China will keep his future baby prisoner or something. While Simplefish's story was rather extreme, he pretty much said what you said with this post. simplefish posted:It's like everything else in China. The rules aren't strongly enforced because they do not exist to prevent behaviour. They exist so that if someone starts to care - either because you went too far or because of politics - then there is a framework in place to gently caress you over as soon as it matters. No, we aren't talking about kidnapping kids or parents being super political or whatever, but there is an American mother/Chinese father with a Chinese/American boy here in Tianjin that have the same paperwork you have and she did the same "dual citizenship spiel" one time on Facebook and someone came in and corrected her, and she found out late last year that her kid actually only has one more time to leave China and then he would be barred from re-entry, or something like this. I don't remember the entire story, but she's in the process now of renouncing his Chinese citizenship and I know it's been a pain in the rear end. I don't think China is going to start imprisoning children and I don't think it's the most serious issue facing most married expats today, but like Bloodnose said, who works/worked for the US embassy, if the kid is considered Chinese at all by the Chinese government, the American embassy isn't going to do anything about it. And the kid will be considered Chinese if you haven't renounced citizenship yet. It's pretty cut and dry, the point I was trying to make. I think the worst thing that could happen is the paperwork wasn't done correctly, and China is like "you have an exit left on your visa but you can't come back", and then you have given the child the best present ever, as the child gets to live the amazing life of knowing they are never allowed to set foot in China ever again.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:02
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I have a weird story from last night. It was right around 9pm and the wife and I were watching Game of Thrones and there was a knock on our door. So like when I'm with my wife's family in Japan, there are knocks on the door probably like 4-6 times a day. My parents live Thoreau style on a lake in Maine in the middle of nowhere so we never get knocks. But like a knock on the door in China is usually like a deliveryman or someone coming to check our gas or water or whatever. It was a lady with a little kid, holding some kinda soup looking thing? So I answered the door and I'm like "nihao" and she starts talking in English, enough to be understood but not enough to make it seem that she usually talks in English, and she's like "Some soup, dessert, enjoy it" and I was like "hum what" and she said lived down the hall and wanted to give us some soup. I was like uh so I called my wife to the door and my wife is like "uh hi" and the lady was like "Yes you can eat this for dessert" so I told my wife what the lady said and I talked to my wife in Chinese, and the lady kept responding to her in English, and my wife looked at me, and then I"d have to translate what this Chinese lady said, from broken English, back to Chinese. This has happened a few times and I can't understand how difficult it is to see that it would just save everyone a step to talk in Chinese, but whatever. So anyway the lady is like, this is my son, he is 6, say HALLO and the kid just kinda stares there and says HALLLLO. I got a door delivered HALLLLO on a Friday night, was nice. Then she was like "I heard you have a beautiful son, can I meet him" and we are like "It's 9pm on a Friday, he's 9 months old, he's sleeping, no" and she was like "oh i know i know i know i know" and then she just kinda backed away slowly and said "bye-bye!!!" Like when I lived in Chicago or Madison I knew my neighbors, because there's like a sense of community and like feeling of togetherness or whatever. But for all the years I've lived in China I've never ONCE known a neighbor, and I've certainly never had a neighbor show up with some sweet soup at 9pm that I've never met before awkwardly forcing conversation on my family. Like I know sometimes that's how people make friends in China, if I had a dime for every time someone told me "Can I make friend with you" I'd probably be able to fly to Logan, but like in the States wouldn't we like meet at the elevator a few times, nod, make small talk, and then sometime she'd come by and be like "I know you guys are busy with a newborn, we have some extra soup tonight I thought I'd give you" and we're like wow thanks! All I can think of now is we have some soup in our fridge, and the bowl of some lady from down the hall, and if she does anything else before even telling us her name, she is going to start asking for me to teach her kid English, take pictures of my baby for her wechat, and ask me to bring back 7 iPads the next time I go to the states.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:21
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The Great Autismo! posted:
rofl
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Sep 9, 2016 23:30
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HALLO Delivery Services stepping up their game
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Sep 10, 2016 00:00
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Warbird posted:We want her to finish her current master's degree, so no applying for a fiance visa until December when she would go back home anyway. The way I figure it, she'll go back overseas for a month or two to see and spend time with the family before coming back on the fiance visa. If this is the US you're talking about.. LMAO. Never believe the quoted time frame for anything, ever. Even with an immigration lawyer, who makes the entire process very smooth and stress-free and you barely have to do anything, it took ten months for our fiancee visa. It took so long that several of the documents she had to get expired before her interview and she had to take a ten-hour train ride to the hometown to get new ones. Because there was no way to know when she was coming, the airfare had to be purchased at the last moment which meant double the price than buying in advance. I see that you're idealistic and really want to go through with this marriage (every Chinese girl's dream), but don't expect anything bureaucratic to go through on any time-frame that fits anything you have going on in your life. If you want to do it properly expect a wait, or even a very long wait. Hire an immigration lawyer if you have the money because it makes it much easier and they will fight for for you if anything goes wrong. US immigration is a joke and you will feel like the clown getting a pie in the face the entire time. You can try what the other poster said and get married now and adjust the status and wait it out together in the US. You can get married abroad, which makes it much slower and annoying to try to bring someone back to the US. The fiancee visa is probably the best way to go, but expect it to take time. There's nothing stopping either of you from visiting each other during it, or her coming on a tourist visa and staying the six months in the US while waiting.
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Sep 10, 2016 04:18
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Hong Kong took six months minimum with everything sorted easily. Was mostly waiting so time frame will change, even in an "easier" situation.
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Sep 10, 2016 04:40
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hong kong divorce lunch posted:Hong Kong took six months minimum with everything sorted easily. Was mostly waiting so time frame will change, even in an "easier" situation. Are you married again?
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Sep 10, 2016 05:30
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Warbird posted:If you have hot tips on getting her to be able to hang out and work in the states, I'd love to hear them. H1-Bs are motherfuckers to get. I guess it's a chicken and egg scenario : If your spouse has a successful career then relocation should never be a problem Then again, if you already have a good life here, why would you throw it away and move to another country unless it's for a better job and promotion?
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Sep 10, 2016 05:36
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GTA don't speak Chinese at home with your Japanese wife it will mess up babby
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Sep 10, 2016 06:34
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We don't speak it in front of the kid, we mainly speak Japanese and English ^.^
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Sep 10, 2016 07:04
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The Great Autismo! posted:if she does anything else before even telling us her name, she is going to start asking for me to teach her kid English, take pictures of my baby for her wechat, and ask me to bring back 7 iPads the next time I go to the states. Hey man, you took the soup.
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Sep 10, 2016 08:45
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caberham posted:Are you married again? yes to a cis male man
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Sep 10, 2016 10:22
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