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E: drat new page.Radio Talmudist posted:What's the consensus on playing BG1, EE? I usually start with BG2, and I remember asking this question a while back on this thread before and getting something to the effect of "it's not really worth playing, BG2 is a superior experience," but has that changed with the EE? BG1 is just a really different experience from BG2. BG1 is framed as a grand adventure and for most of the game, the plot is pretty thin. The characters that join your party clearly have no purpose other than to fill out your party as they generally clam up the second they join and aren't often referenced in dialog. The game is much more about exploring the world and doing whatever little adventures you run into be they plot related stuff or otherwise. Also it's a low level campaign so it's going to be rough starting out. BG2 is a much more plot and character driven affair. The game world is smaller and more tightly knit. There are fewer potential recruits but they are all brimming with personality. it's generally considered to be the better video game BGEE adds a whole lot of quality of life features that the original (as well as the mods that run BG1's content within BG2) lack, so unless there's a specific mod or something out there that requires the original, I see no reason to play the original games. Same goes fro BG2EE. Especially if you've never played the games before there's basically no reason you won't find the EEs superior. My suggestion is if you're willing to drop the money on it, give BG1 a shot. If the campaigns style doesn't jive with you, feel free to jump ahead to BG2, but don't write off bG2 based on your opinions of BG1 either. Head Hit Keyboard fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 18:02
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EE is worth it for the loot vacuum alone
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Sep 9, 2016 18:47
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what about the bgee expansion thingy
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Sep 9, 2016 19:25
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To add to Head Hit Keyboard's good summary of the situation, one of the appeals of going through the BG1(EE) campaign is going from a 4 HP twig to a demigod within the entire BG series campaign, the contrast is fun to look back on. But yeah, the BG1 world is very much 'wander around and see what kind of weird stuff there is in the forest' (there's a lot of weird stuff) or the same in BG city proper. And then there's Durlag's Tower, which is a great but also sometimes infuriating mid-low-level dungeon romp. BG2(EE) has much more content on railroads, but the quest-driven nature of it is a much more coherent experience. Also BG1 has all the tomes of stat rising, so if you feel it is 'cheating' to CLUA-import them to the start of BG2, it's a forest romp for you my friend! 
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Sep 9, 2016 21:27
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BG1 was made in an era that didn't require you to have dragons in your videogame.
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Sep 9, 2016 21:39
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An era that ended when BG2 came out and had several crammed into it.Super No Vacancy posted:what about the bgee expansion thingy
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Sep 9, 2016 21:51
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Rappaport posted:the BG1 world is very much 'wander around and see what kind of weird stuff there is in the forest' (there's a lot of weird stuff) or the same in BG city proper. I was going to this, basically. The biggest knock against 2nd edition D&D is that low-level combat is horrid and that's hard to deny, but the game does feel very... organic, I suppose, because you can just bop off into the wilderness where you might meet a new companion or get involved in some silliness. It's also a great way to get experience in a game where every level makes a huge difference. BG2 is the better game, but everything in BG2 is there for a reason. In BG1, some things are just there because forests, sea shores and caves exist in fantasy worlds and sometimes interesting things happen in or near them. I'm also going to defend BG1's plot. I won't go into detail here because clearly there are people who haven't played it, but I think that the progression of the critical path and the slow revelations about the antagonist's motivations are quite compelling. Also, because a normal game of BG1 with a lot of exploring takes months of in-game time, it makes perfect sense that all of that intrigue would need weeks and weeks to unfold. In short, I think that BG1's plot is woefully underappreciated and that if one really takes time to drink it in, it's logical and satisfying.
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Sep 9, 2016 22:24
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And conversely, in BG2 the plot motivation for the character's path is rather at odds with what would be the optimum progression from a game play point of view. Of course part of that could be that I just want to explore everything like in BG1 
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Sep 9, 2016 23:53
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Rappaport posted:And conversely, in BG2 the plot motivation for the character's path is rather at odds with what would be the optimum progression from a game play point of view. Of course part of that could be that I just want to explore everything like in BG1 Yeah, BGII really needs a post-game mod.
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Sep 10, 2016 00:29
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The answer to "should I play BG1 as well?" is and always should be a definitive "yes". Particularly with the EE doing all the work of putting it into the same game engine, it isn't even really two separate games.
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Sep 10, 2016 01:05
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Decrepus posted:BG1 was made in an era that didn't require you to have dragons in your videogame. Executive: Ok! We got the license for Dungeons & Dragons. Designer: Cool! I designed this game with lots of Dungeons in it! Executive: Great Ship it! Wait are we missing something? Designer: Nope!
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Sep 10, 2016 14:42
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Suspicious posted:Only elder orbs have imprisonment. Is the twisted rune beholder an elder orb? Also, while I don't remember if beholders have disintegrate, what they do love to do is petrify their victims then attack them once to shatter them. Same effect. At least going by one of the sources Bioware would have used (Lands of Intrigue), yes, Vaxall is an elder orb. Hughlander posted:Executive: Ok! We got the license for Dungeons & Dragons. Nah, it made sense back in 1998. D&D had been slipping away from the kill things in a dungeon basis for a decade then. At the same time, Dragon magazine was running Ed Greenwood's Wyrms of the North series, which was the epitome of a design philosophy crafting dragons as individual characters with tons of plots and plans, never to be fought as encounters in a dungeon. A "dragon fight" wasn't really in the cards for D&D like that at that point. By the time SoA rolled around, Wizards of the Coast's back to the dungeon plans had really come through, so you were starting to see "B3. Dragon's Lair" again or whatever. Honestly, I think it might just have been technical limitations. Dragons do wonky things to the engine because they're so large as is. BG1 was sprawling as is without adding dragons (although they definitely tried something similar with the wyverns' lair.) There are a couple notable Faerunian dragons that should show up during Baldur's Gate they didn't include. Miirym would have been really cool, she's the mad ghost dragon protector of the Candlekeep crypts.
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Sep 10, 2016 16:38
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Arivia posted:Honestly, I think it might just have been technical limitations. Dragons do wonky things to the engine because they're so large as is. A dragon would barely even fit on the screen at that resolution.
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Sep 10, 2016 16:46
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Wizard Styles posted:Wasn't BG1 capped at 640x480 at release, too? I think you could do 800x600 as well, but maybe that was added later on. Bigger resolutions definitely came with BG2 though.
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Sep 10, 2016 16:48
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Smol posted:I think you could do 800x600 as well, but maybe that was added later on. Bigger resolutions definitely came with BG2 though. I think 800x600 was added in TotSC.
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Sep 10, 2016 16:50
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About to play Watcher's Keep for the first time ever. Any pro tips?
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Sep 10, 2016 16:54
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Arivia posted:I think 800x600 was added in TotSC. nah, you're thinking of IWD, that was 480 at release and HoW added higher resolutions. bg1 never had it higher than 480 even with totsc.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:05
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Wizard Styles posted:Wasn't BG1 capped at 640x480 at release, too? It is baldurs gate. You aren't supposed to kill the enemy while they are on your screen.
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Sep 10, 2016 17:24
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BadAstronaut posted:About to play Watcher's Keep for the first time ever. Any pro tips? Afterwards you'll have to deal with wild and no magic zones, as well as enemies that like to use fear, charm and stun. e: And after that, imprisonment becomes an issue, so do what you can to prepare for that/just bring Korgan and laugh all the way to the bank. Make a save as soon as you see a friendly Cambion. Decrepus posted:It is baldurs gate. You aren't supposed to kill the enemy while they are on your screen. Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Sep 10, 2016 |
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Sep 10, 2016 19:16
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Arivia posted:Nah, it made sense back in 1998. D&D had been slipping away from the kill things in a dungeon basis for a decade then. At the same time, Dragon magazine was running Ed Greenwood's Wyrms of the North series, which was the epitome of a design philosophy crafting dragons as individual characters with tons of plots and plans, never to be fought as encounters in a dungeon. A "dragon fight" wasn't really in the cards for D&D like that at that point.
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Sep 10, 2016 23:48
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I have a Heroic (20) rep party and I'd like to pick up Edwin and Korgan. How can I drop a few rep points easily and safely? Currently I have: Me: Fighter/Cleric Jaheira Keldoen Imoen Jan Haer'Dalis EDIT: Just found this FYI. SO looks Like I just need to keep that rep at 18 or below. NPC Reactions Toward Reputation Rep.......Alignment ........Good.....Neutral ....Evil 1.....Break.....Break......Happy 2.....Break.....Angry......Happy 3.....Angry.....Angry......Happy 4.....Angry.....Unhappy...Happy 5.....Angry.....Unhappy...Happy 6.....Unhappy..Neutral...Happy 7.....Unhappy..Neutral...Neutral 8.....Unhappy...Neutral...Neutral 9.....Neutral....Neutral...Neutral 10....Neutral....Neutral...Neutral 11....Neutral....Neutral...Neutral 12....Neutral....Neutral...Neutral 13....Happy.....Neutral...Unhappy 14....Happy.....Neutral...Unhappy 15....Happy.....Neutral...Unhappy 16....Happy.....Neutral...Angry 17....Happy.....Neutral...Angry 18....Happy.....Neutral...Angry 19....Happy.....Unhappy...Break 20....Happy.....Unhappy...Break BadAstronaut fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Sep 11, 2016 |
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Sep 11, 2016 08:39
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BadAstronaut posted:I have a Heroic (20) rep party and I'd like to pick up Edwin and Korgan. How can I drop a few rep points easily and safely? Activating slayer decreases your reputation by 2.
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Sep 11, 2016 09:11
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Just install the tweak that makes NPCs not leave when your reputation gets too high/low.
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Sep 11, 2016 09:14
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm also going to defend BG1's plot. I won't go into detail here because clearly there are people who haven't played it, but I think that the progression of the critical path and the slow revelations about the antagonist's motivations are quite compelling. Also, because a normal game of BG1 with a lot of exploring takes months of in-game time, it makes perfect sense that all of that intrigue would need weeks and weeks to unfold. In short, I think that BG1's plot is woefully underappreciated and that if one really takes time to drink it in, it's logical and satisfying. The plot is surprisingly nice and almost understated at points, but the low-level writing is often so, so bad, and so little effort seems to have been put to tie the hook with the early adventures and progression, that I can't help but wonder if someone wrote an outline and then left the company/worked on some other project.
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Sep 11, 2016 09:36
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rope kid posted:AFAIK no one at WotC gave a poo poo if we did or didn't have dragons in the IE games. It literally never came up that I remember. Sprite size limitations were an issue in BG1. They weren't in IWD and onward so we had bigger creatures. It was as simple as that. I just wanted to thank you for posting these sorts of insights into the thread. It's always fascinating having an inside look at the design decisions that made up the infinity engine games back in the day.
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Sep 11, 2016 10:31
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JustJeff88 posted:I'm also going to defend BG1's plot. I won't go into detail here because clearly there are people who haven't played it, but I think that the progression of the critical path and the slow revelations about the antagonist's motivations are quite compelling. Also, because a normal game of BG1 with a lot of exploring takes months of in-game time, it makes perfect sense that all of that intrigue would need weeks and weeks to unfold. In short, I think that BG1's plot is woefully underappreciated and that if one really takes time to drink it in, it's logical and satisfying. e: BG1 is alright in the rave but BG2: SoA is probably the best CRPG ever so just play that.
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Sep 11, 2016 10:38
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jBrereton posted:A logical, satisfying plot about a resource shortage that doesn't affect the game in any way Well, except for things made of iron breaking
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Sep 11, 2016 10:52
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Well, except for things made of iron breaking Nothing happens to the agriculture of the area, prices don't even actually go up over time, it's a non-event.
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Sep 11, 2016 10:53
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jBrereton posted:Wow my non magical sword that is basically free sometimes breaks. I don't think those are reasonable expectations
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Sep 11, 2016 10:55
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jBrereton posted:Wow my non magical sword that is basically free sometimes breaks. Except it's a catalyst for the war against Amn that Sarevok is trying to start
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Sep 11, 2016 10:57
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MrL_JaKiri posted:I don't think those are reasonable expectations
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Sep 11, 2016 10:58
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It's not like the plot of BG2 changes in any way depending on how long you take. "Yep, going to sleep outside suldanessellar for six months I hope nothing happens inside in that time"jBrereton posted:Yeah why would the plot influence the game at all, that would be awful. How many RPGs change the world based on how long you take with the main quest
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Sep 11, 2016 10:58
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How dare those lazy Canadians not add an simulation of the effects of the iron shortage in their 1998 debut role-playing game
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Sep 11, 2016 10:59
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MrL_JaKiri posted:How many RPGs change the world based on how long you take with the main quest Fallout 1 is the only one I can think of (Getting the water chip has a time limit). But they essentially patched it away, now you have almost purposelly fail to hit it.
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Sep 11, 2016 11:04
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MrL_JaKiri posted:It's not like the plot of BG2 changes in any way depending on how long you take. "Yep, going to sleep outside suldanessellar for six months I hope nothing happens inside in that time" quote:How many RPGs change the world based on how long you take with the main quest But I mean if literally all they did was somewhat put the prices up based on an amount-of-days-passed trigger (which is presumably possible inside the infinity engine?) that would've been something? Doesn't seem that absurd, and I don't know how you could spend anything more than a couple of in-game months in BG1 before you're completely tooled up and outrageously wealthy to the point that a longsword costing 250 gold or crossbow bolts costing 50 gold for 10 wouldn't be an obvious sign that the economy was breaking down but unlikely to end your run, especially with bandits carrying both. Maybe if you went to Werewolf Island for half a year or whatever it even is, upon coming back there might be an NPC or two shouting at the mayor about their scythes breaking and when are we going to see the end of all this etc. etc. in the next town you visit. That kind of thing. Little tokens of this story around you. The plot is driven by an economic crisis that doesn't actually do anything. Doesn't ruin the game by any means but it's a weakness of it.
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Sep 11, 2016 11:15
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This would be a not-insignificant amount of extra work for something with a negligible effect that only a handful of people would care about.
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Sep 11, 2016 11:19
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jBrereton posted:Mass Effect 2, sorta? And that's a very straightforward, limited cosmetic change that's isolated to the endgame - not something that fundamentally affects the game balance as doing things like changing all the prices would.
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Sep 11, 2016 11:43
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Just about every NPC you talk to in BG1 complains about the iron shortage. Several of the spoken lines that NPC spout as they wander are about it. You get mugged by bandits demanding your iron. Your non magical weapons break all the drat time. I honestly think the plot in BG1 is one of the best thought out and integrated of any RPG.
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Sep 11, 2016 12:10
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The iron crisis is meaningless to the player because bows never break, normal weapons are handed out like candy, and magic weapons completely circumvent the problem. Changing the vendor prices wouldn't fix any of these issues. If you wanted the iron shortage to actually feel impactful, you'd need to both increase the chance of breaking and the price you pay when it happens, but that doesn't gel well with a game where you solve 95% of all problems through brute force. It might have worked better in a game like Fallout where most quests offer a non-violent alternative.
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Sep 11, 2016 12:49
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Is Imprisonment permanet? Kangaxx demi lich, failed attempt #15 with deathw ard and immunity from abjuration going on here.
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Sep 11, 2016 15:17
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