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Subjunctive posted:N.B. that if she invested in the stock market over the worst-performing 25-year period between 1950 and 2002, she would have come out at 6.7x. 1991-2016 is 7.9x. You do have to value the utility of the asset outside of its financial return, though. It provided a place for her to live for 25 years. (of course don't forget to then account for all the costs associated with owning the home either...)
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Sep 9, 2016 21:11
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Subjunctive posted:N.B. that if she invested in the stock market over the worst-performing 25-year period between 1950 and 2002, she would have come out at 6.7x. 1991-2016 is 7.9x. Can I find somewhere that will loan me money at 3.2% interest on a 30 year payback schedule to buy stocks?
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Sep 9, 2016 21:12
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I'm not saying that she made a bad choice, just that "5x over 25 years" isn't  in terms of returns.
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Sep 9, 2016 21:15
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Requesting an update on the leveraged AMD trader. 
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Sep 9, 2016 21:15
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You do have to value the utility of the asset outside of its financial return, though. It provided a place for her to live for 25 years. (of course don't forget to then account for all the costs associated with owning the home either...) Of course, the costs associated with renting a 3 bedroom apartment have the potential of being a lot higher given that lovely apartments are $1500 now, while a house in a much less convenient area would be 25-3000. It's also not relevant to stock investment, it's relative to the housing market in other locations. What's the mean or median increase over the past 25 years?
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Sep 9, 2016 21:17
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Homes aren't investments, at their best they are a savings account you can live inside. And only a fraction of every payment actually makes it into that savings account
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Sep 9, 2016 21:25
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I'm not sure if that was directed at me, I wasn't trying to imply it was an investment, I was just saying that an average 20% per year increase is a lot from a few minutes googling. It's an example of how quickly the cost of a house has increased, and it's pricing a lot of natives out of the market unless they move to the middle of nowhere in the mountains or to the eastern plains.
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Sep 9, 2016 21:37
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Mercury Ballistic posted:The financial institutions love binding arbitration, and odds are, you are already unable to sue them if you use their services. It is pretty insidious, and the CFPB is starting to hit them hard over it. Well then maybe this will be the straw that breaks the binding arbitration back. I mean, I'm trying to think back and I can't recall a bank getting caught in something of this scope. If anyone can reasonably doubt the monetary damage Wells Fargo is claiming then no arbitration clause in the world is going to help them.
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Sep 9, 2016 22:08
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It needs to happen, here is some info http://www.consumerfinance.gov/abou...heir-day-court/
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Sep 9, 2016 22:34
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canyoneer posted:Homes aren't investments, at their best they are a savings account you can live inside. I get the sentiment you're trying to combat here but this is just misinformation. Homes absolutely 100% are investments, and they are often the only investment people make that is highly leveraged. Understanding the implications of both those things is really good. That being said just because your shithead uncle bought 3 houses and lucked into some wealth because of it doesn't mean it's an "investment" in the sense you should attempt to build most of your net worth around it. Don't make that mistake for sure. Pryor on Fire fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Sep 9, 2016 |
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Sep 9, 2016 22:40
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ExtrudeAlongCurve posted:What blows my mind is how did customers not notice getting charged bullshit fees for accounts they didn't open. Like, "Oh welp there's a fee, guess I should pay it," no questions asked? It was just low level people this to meet dumb quotas.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:05
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gvibes posted:It actually sounds like a lot of these incidents didn't result in any fees. I read somewhere that there were like 1.5 million of these unauthorized account openings, but they only brought in about 2.1 million in fees or something like that. Pretty sure the 2.1 million is the number the bank pulled out of their rear end as the amount they agreed to pay rather than the actual findings of any investigation
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Sep 9, 2016 23:09
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Pretty sure the 2.1 million is the number the bank pulled out of their rear end as the amount they agreed to pay rather than the actual findings of any investigation e: Looks like the numbers were from a Wells Fargo-funded investigation, so yeah, not very trustworthy.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:11
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I was a teller at Wells Fargo in 2010. "Being a bank teller" was like... 25% of my responsibility. The other 75% was making sure I pressured enough customers into opening new checking accounts and credit cards. There was a big green button on our screen that we clicked every time we did it. If we didn't average 2x per day on a monthly basis, we had our hours cut. If we averaged 5x per day, we effectively earned an extra $5/hr. Not at all surprised that this happened. Click the big green button, uncheck the "Allow Online Access" and "Send paper statements" buttons, and the customer would never know.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:11
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I went into Wells Fargo last year to pay off my private student loan because mailing a check wouldn't get there in time to match whatever the complete payoff amount was and I was ready to be done with it. The teller said "Congratulations! I see you don't have any other accounts with us, could I interest you in a checking or savings account?"
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Sep 9, 2016 23:43
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Next on "Tales of Adequate Service!"The Mandingo posted:I went into Wells Fargo last year to pay off my private student loan because mailing a check wouldn't get there in time to match whatever the complete payoff amount was and I was ready to be done with it.
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Sep 9, 2016 23:53
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So if WF employees didn't allow online access to an account, and disabled paper statements, how would you even know if you had an account (assuming no fees attached)?
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Sep 10, 2016 00:08
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https://twitter.com/WellsFargoNews/status/773921419654795264 Sounds like the invisible hand of the glorious free market (pbuh) needs to reach over and choke Wells Fargo until it collapses. Good lord, the arseholery and general prickishness encapsulated in just this one tweet. "in the interest of putting this matter behind us" Read: "Please please please let us 'settle' this gigantic, top-to-bottom fuckup before the feds start looking!" "Wells Fargo is committed to putting our customer's interests first 100 percent of the time" No you loving well are not, as this entire matter just proved, you fuckwits! "we regret and take responsibility for any instances where customers may have received a product they did not request" ... but we do not regret our mandated-by-the-execs program that fraudulently signed up customers to financial services that actively hosed them. That part we're proud of and planning to continue! "Our entire culture is centered on doing what is right for our customers" No it loving well is not, as this entire matter just proved, you fuckwits! edit: how do i embed twete
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Sep 10, 2016 00:12
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sparkmaster posted:So if WF employees didn't allow online access to an account, and disabled paper statements, how would you even know if you had an account (assuming no fees attached)? Exactly. So WF just purged less then 2% of it's work force, that are wiling to commit wholesale fraud. They are spending 185 million, to remove the most unprofessional members of their 200 billion dollar company.
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Sep 10, 2016 00:15
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Subjunctive posted:N.B. that if she invested in the stock market over the worst-performing 25-year period between 1950 and 2002, she would have come out at 6.7x. 1991-2016 is 7.9x. You also have to value not having to pay rent for 15 years as well as the value of any interest/depreciation you deducted.
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Sep 10, 2016 00:40
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22 Eargesplitten posted:I'm half joking, but prices are getting ridiculously high on houses and apartments because of the influx of people from higher income areas. My mother sold her house recently, she bought it in '91 for <100,000. She sold it in less than a week for $500,000, higher than the asking price. There were some improvements, but that's over 5x the original price in 25 years. Town has also become distinctly less friendly over the past 10 years. Except Denver, that's always been rear end in a top hat central. Did she actually pay less than $100k cash for the house or does that ignore her financing cost
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Sep 10, 2016 00:49
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Mantle posted:Did she actually pay less than $100k cash for the house or does that ignore her financing cost Also 25 years of maintenance, repairs, and upkeep, and taxes. I'm not at all anti-buying-a-house but I am always extremely skeptical when people say things like "yeah my house value has TRIPLED in 15 years!!" and only compare their financed purchase price vs. their unrealized current appraised value without accounting for the many, many expenses that come with it. Unfortunately most people are money-stupid and like was mentioned, primary residences are a de-facto investment vehicle for many Americans. It's lovely but true.
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Sep 10, 2016 01:01
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Mantle posted:Did she actually pay less than $100k cash for the house or does that ignore her financing cost No, they were paying off the original mortgage still, although she obviously had a whole lot left after paying it off. I did say that I'm not talking about this as an investment, but talking about the drastic change in housing prices. While I was too young to know the housing market back then, my understanding is that this started in the early-mid '00s, when Californians started migrating into Colorado in droves. Everyone who has lived here long is amazed by how much the city has changed. Compare the price increase to the average wage increase in CO and inflation, if you can find it.
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Sep 10, 2016 02:39
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pr0zac posted:Not sure why you're including California in that list when it's Californians the rest of the list hates. No different than any other place. Every place has assholes.
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Sep 10, 2016 04:56
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Have you considered a rural location such as Des Moines? Just like San Francisco, a city with a large underground homosexual population. Perfect example, Stuart.
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Sep 10, 2016 05:42
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I don't know if they had any quota for not closing accounts, but I'm pretty sure Wells Fargo did that to me when I tried to close my savings account with them. They took the balance to $.01 and said "oh, that will settle in a few days, and the account will be closed out". Then it stopped showing up on my online accounts page, but when I would get quarterly paper statements in the mail, the savings account still showed up with a penny in it. It was never charged any fees, and I am familiar with corporate number-gaming myself, so I just rolled my eyes, but I wonder if that was the same kind of scheme. It's probably still open, for all I know.
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Sep 10, 2016 06:25
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Moneyball posted:Programming bootcamps seem to be the new University of Phoenix as far as respectability (or so I've read- I could be completely full of poo poo) but I've been thinking of taking the Level course offered by Northeastern. Is that a good way to get up to speed? Quoting this from waaaay back, but I'm curious if you went ahead with the Level bootcamp. I did a guest lecture for them and was less than impressed by some aspects of it.
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Sep 10, 2016 18:32
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There's a couple bootcamps in my city and it's a complete crock of poo poo. They basically give you all the up-front skills you need to pass an interview but the skillsets they provide are paper thin, with no complete understanding of any concepts. And then they charge over ten thousand dollars for it, which would pay for most of a degree at the local community college. We do have one however that's funded by a grant by the city and covers 12 weeks of education for free. That's a solid opportunity, but it definitely makes the for-profit ones in this city look bad. Last week I saw one of the local bootcamps advertising on reddit "Local code bootcamp offers $500 scholarship!!" trying to make it into a charity case when the reality is five-hundred bucks isn't even a downpayment.
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Sep 10, 2016 19:12
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kimbo305 posted:Quoting this from waaaay back, but I'm curious if you went ahead with the Level bootcamp. I did a guest lecture for them and was less than impressed by some aspects of it. I never seriously pursued it. I might learn something, but it's $8,000 and I would have to leave my job to have the time to actually get anything from it. It doesn't give any college credits, of which I need 30 to get my CPA license. I'll just take some community college courses instead.
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Sep 10, 2016 20:49
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BWM big bank story: When I was 16 I got a $1500 limit credit card from Bank of America, quickly near-maxxed it out and then took all of my savings from my crappy movie theater job (~$500) and took a month and a half trip through south america. Seven years later I successfully managed to pay it all off completely because I was a poor debt-trap up until then, at which point I began a four year process of trying to a actually close the account. I would call up and go through the process of closing it and then call six months later to double check that it had been closed (it never was.) Honestly I should have just abandoned it to gain credit score points, but BoA had hosed me with fees for so long I didn't want to leave an abandoned anything with my name on it in their hands.
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Sep 10, 2016 21:05
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http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?499858-Paying-Board-in-Adavance-Good-or-Badquote:I currently began a doctorate program, and will be receiving a large lump sum from a loan I was approved for that will be used specifically for living expenses for the semester. I thought of the idea of paying for my horses board four or five months in advance, simply to have one less thing to pay every month and to have the peace of mind that his board is done and take care of my entire first semester. I have never done this before, and although I tried to do some research online on the pros and cons I really couldn't find much. So many layers of BWM here: 1. Taking out loans for a PhD program 2. Owning a horse 3. Owning a horse while in debt for a PhD program 4. Paying several months of horse board up front 5. Using student loan money for a horse 6. Paying horse board up front with student loans taken out for a PhD program
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Sep 11, 2016 00:13
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Youth Decay posted:http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?499858-Paying-Board-in-Adavance-Good-or-Bad This has got to be peak BWM. Bonus points for the fact that they'll lose whatever free time they used to spend with said horse by month 3-4 of said PhD.
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Sep 11, 2016 00:29
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ego symphonic posted:This has got to be peak BWM. Bonus points for the fact that they'll lose whatever free time they used to spend with said horse by month 3-4 of said PhD. The horse is 27 and she claims leasing him out is "not an option" so he probably isn't even rideable.
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Sep 11, 2016 00:31
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Youth Decay posted:The horse is 27 and she claims leasing him out is "not an option" so he probably isn't even rideable. 7. Paying multiple months of board in advance for a horse that will die any second
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Sep 11, 2016 00:35
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ego symphonic posted:This has got to be peak BWM. Bonus points for the fact that they'll lose whatever free time they used to spend with said horse by month 3-4 of said PhD. best part: quote:I see it as being no different than a mother or father requesting, and being approved, for a loan that will be used (in part) for day care expenses or even tuition for a private school (if their child attended one).
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Sep 11, 2016 00:36
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Pompous Rhombus posted:best part: Day care expenses for their geriatric child who requires expensive metal shoes to be custom-fit and nailed to his feet, sure.
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Sep 11, 2016 01:03
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Spending student loan money on not tuition and school expenses is fraud.
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Sep 11, 2016 01:20
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cowofwar posted:Spending student loan money on not tuition and school expenses is fraud. They're living expenses, obviously I can't live without my emotional support horse 
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Sep 11, 2016 01:26
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I'm kind of proud of myself for disliking horses long before I discovered what a financial plague they were. Horrible animals.
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Sep 11, 2016 04:51
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Oxxidation posted:I'm kind of proud of myself for disliking horses long before I discovered what a financial plague they were. Horrible animals. And the less said about mules, the better.
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Sep 11, 2016 06:39
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