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Heavy Metal posted:What's Worlds? I googled a couple things but not sure what it is. One of those hard to google titles, like the anime X. It was a chat client in the 90's. 
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Sep 12, 2016 04:03
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Right on, that looks far out!
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Sep 12, 2016 04:33
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Actually thinking about Far Cry from earlier... man, the series really improved a lot after Ubisoft bought the name and did its own thing with it. Far Cry and Crysis are pretty and technically impressive for their times, but they are riddled with some real bad problems. Now the franchise is chill gently caress-around open world games and I think they're a lot better for it.
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Sep 12, 2016 05:50
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far cry 2 will always hold a special place in my heart.
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Sep 12, 2016 06:03
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Roobanguy posted:far cry 2 will always hold a special place in my heart. The place where ubisoft hadn't figured out they can sell the same game again every year yet. Lots of experimental ideas you just don't see from them anymore in it.
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Sep 12, 2016 06:51
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Flannelette posted:The place where ubisoft hadn't figured out they can sell the same game again every year yet. Ubisoft still has a bit of expiremental quirk to them sometimes: Grow Home, Valiant Hearts, Rainbow Six Siege, trying to reinvent extreme sports games in 2016???
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Sep 12, 2016 07:08
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Roobanguy posted:far cry 2 will always hold a special place in my heart. I really love what Far Cry 2 almost was, but only get sad at what it turned out to be. When you play FC2, there are occasional moments where you experience brief flashes of an amazing shooter, maybe the single best shooter of that generation, but they're gone too quickly and then it's another slog of identical missions, endless padding and hours of downtime just driving to and from objectives. In most FPSes guns aren't real weapons- they're magical wands that cast Bullet. In FPSes you couldn't depend on your guns as if they were infallible, as they could fail in the middle of a fight. They tried to make everything an object that you interacted with, like the map and the cell phone being physical objects you could see held in your hand- little touches that seem superfluous but you realize how much they added to the immersion when you go to FC3 and FC4, where once again loot boxes snap open with the power of telekinesis. What FC2 offered was an environment where everything was hostile. It had this surreal, post apocalyptic atmosphere to it. Not even STALKER did it to the same degree. Save for your one buddy that you had equipped at the time, everyone else was trying to kill you. It was dreary and oppressive. I hoped FC3 and FC4 would grab that atmosphere and feel and run with it, but the whole atmosphere fell apart as you now have civilians and team mates roaming around, you don't feel like you're in an alien country where everyone hates you, it feels like you're on vacation with a gun. The setpieces in FC2 were amazing too, and it was great because they weren't scripted. It was all based on the level design. The mission where you have to assault the Dogo Village still sticks out in my memory. In most missions you could start sniping from afar and significantly soften up the bad guys before you went in close. In the village there's a mortar position so if you try that you find yourself frantically running to and fro avoiding mortar fire while trying to trade sniper shots. Eventually you're forced to close the distance and enter an intense close quarters battle with a lot of claustrophobic spaces between huts that feel amazing to navigate blowing away dudes with a shotgun. That was an awesome mission but if it was a story mission in one of the sequels all of that probably would have been linear and scripted out. There's another mission where you have to climb up way high above a river and cross a rope bridge to assassinate some warlord, and when you do a bunch of bad guys start showing up and presumably you're expected to fight your way back down, but you can be a crafty bastard and just jump off the bridge down into the waters below and escape that way instead, which is a lot faster, easier, and cooler. If it had been a story mission in the sequels, that would have been a scripted part too. It was so, so close to being a perfect game. It sucks that it'll never be fixed- any remake that could conceivably be made would add the bloated crap I hate involving hunting animals to craft ammo bags and climbing radio towers.
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Sep 12, 2016 07:10
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Bilal posted:I really love what Far Cry 2 almost was, but only get sad at what it turned out to be. When you play FC2, there are occasional moments where you experience brief flashes of an amazing shooter, maybe the single best shooter of that generation, but they're gone too quickly and then it's another slog of identical missions, endless padding and hours of downtime just driving to and from objectives. pretty much, although the thing i honestly miss the most from fc2 is the healing animations. there was a whole shitload of them and they were all different kinds of hosed up, like twisting your arm back into place, or jamming shrapnel out of your leg. all the later games had were like 3 at most.
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Sep 12, 2016 07:24
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Bilal posted:I really love what Far Cry 2 almost was, but only get sad at what it turned out to be. When you play FC2, there are occasional moments where you experience brief flashes of an amazing shooter, maybe the single best shooter of that generation, but they're gone too quickly and then it's another slog of identical missions, endless padding and hours of downtime just driving to and from objectives. Agreed, Far Cry 2 is the best Far Cry and I still really miss the map and satphone being tangible objects instead of having to open a menu. I just wish I could get a bow in that game since I love using the bows in 3/4.
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Sep 12, 2016 07:31
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Roobanguy posted:pretty much, although the thing i honestly miss the most from fc2 is the healing animations. there was a whole shitload of them and they were all different kinds of hosed up, like twisting your arm back into place, or jamming shrapnel out of your leg. all the later games had were like 3 at most. Might as well bring up this classic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enb0zWbYUik
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Sep 12, 2016 08:25
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Heavy Metal posted:This map is so drat good, everybody with a computer and eduke32 give this a play. You may openly weep tears of joy. Yes, it's a great map. It gives the same feeling as when I saw for the first time Flooded Zone and The Highway (secret level in ep.3) in the original Duke3d. Excellent use of stock art and various objects to create new things (the debris swimming in the water looks especially great). Really liking the fact that despite the size and the openness, the progression is quite easy. Waiting for the second part!
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Sep 12, 2016 08:37
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:It is: Nooooo it was different. 
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Sep 12, 2016 08:48
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Doom 64 was fuckin awesome. I'd expected it to be a bit easy, given its Nintendo origins and reliance on an iffy controller - but it really steps up in the latter set of levels. For example, you're thrown into transforming rooms with three Pain Elementals, four Barons and some Arachnotrons and expected to get on with it. Also, actually having a proper end boss was awesome, and a lot more involved and interesting to fight than I'd anticipated. Certainly more fun than mindlessly poking a Cyberdemon with rockets for 5 minutes. Granted, the level design isn't breaking any boundaries (there's a lot of moat/castle/keep type maps) and the lack of Revenants and Archviles hurts the later levels and causes a reliance on Barons that gets a bit tedious, but overall an awesome collection. Everyone should play through it once. Here's some screens:     
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Sep 12, 2016 13:22
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Lurdiak posted:Nooooo it was different. If DOOM (4) had had scanning, and smart backtracking, would it have been closer to MP? I haven't played it yet. That'd be a great mod, if people were able to mod it rather than just use the level editor. Maybe someday  Until then, I really have to try out Dreadnought.
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Sep 12, 2016 13:28
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The Metroid Prime feelings I got out of DO4M is mostly the platforming actually. Doomguy's gravity is really similar to Samus'. FPS generally can't do platforming well but I think giving the player really generous floaty jumps makes it work well, it worked in DO4M and it worked in Prime. The gunplay and level design is obviously completely different. It really depresses me that there will never be a game like Metroid Prime again. Sure as poo poo Retro won't make it 
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Sep 12, 2016 13:40
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RyokoTK posted:The Metroid Prime feelings I got out of DO4M is mostly the platforming actually. Doomguy's gravity is really similar to Samus'. FPS generally can't do platforming well but I think giving the player really generous floaty jumps makes it work well, it worked in DO4M and it worked in Prime. The gunplay and level design is obviously completely different. Yeah, the aerial movement did remind me a lot of Prime. It's not Retro's fault that we won't get another game like Prime, though. You need to blame a much larger company for that.
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Sep 12, 2016 14:06
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Did Nintendo interfere with Retro and tell them to take out as much sequence breaking as possible and make the game more linear and cinematic? The decline of Metroid-ness between Prime and Corruption is palpable. I was under the impression that Retro wanted people to follow the game in sequence, which is why they fixed a bunch of sequence breaks between the original and PAL releases of Prime. e: Unless you meant that Nintendo just put Metroid out to pasture in general, in which case v  v
RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 14:18
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Tobaccrow posted:It was a chat client in the 90's. That reminds me of the days of Cybertown and its confident proclamations that VRML was the wave of the future. It was the most '90s thing that ever existed.
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Sep 12, 2016 14:43
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RyokoTK posted:e: Unless you meant that Nintendo just put Metroid out to pasture in general, in which case v Metroid has never been one of their top franchises and it always sold better in the West than in Japan. That, combined with 2 flops in a row, and the franchise is most likely dead for the foreseeable future 
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Sep 12, 2016 15:11
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RyokoTK posted:Did Nintendo interfere with Retro and tell them to take out as much sequence breaking as possible and make the game more linear and cinematic? The decline of Metroid-ness between Prime and Corruption is palpable. I was under the impression that Retro wanted people to follow the game in sequence, which is why they fixed a bunch of sequence breaks between the original and PAL releases of Prime. Probably not as sequence breaking decreased with each game. There's evidence that sequence breaking in the original games was unintentionally with a few exceptions like in Super Metroid where wall jumping and shinespark line up way too well to be accidental. Fusion also has the easter egg that acknowledges sequence breaking but overall I think Nintendo and Retro viewed them as bugs that needed to be polished out whereas Metroid and Super Metroid are pretty shoddily programmed as a whole.
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Sep 12, 2016 15:20
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Wait, two flops? Oh wow, Fed Force came out.  I'm happy that there are indie gamers making cool 2D Metroidvanias but what I wouldn't give for a sicknasty FPS with the exploration and weirdness of Metroid Prime again. Bilal posted:
I definitely agree with you that Far Cry 2 fell short of its potential, but I don't necessarily agree with the position on FC3/4. I actually like the phrase "vacation with a gun." Right now there's a glut of survival games in pretty much every genre and I'm pretty well tired of it. Stuff like weapon degradation in FC2 did nothing but annoy me, and I like that it was scrapped for 3/4; I just don't think it contributes to any game that it's in. I don't mind that it's a relatively casual and low-key approach to open-ended shootmans stuff. FC3 and 4 still have plenty of emergent gameplay and open-ended engagements like how you describe in FC2. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong or inferior to a scripted mission, although "scripting" in this case usually just means that you go to an area, kill everyone there, and then more guys show up and you have to kill them too; it's still pretty open-ended in how you want to kill them. The outpost engagements aren't scripted at all, and to me that's the most fun, and I don't really mind that the player is basically a superhero that can climb walls and murder an army of dudes with a bow and a knife. There are other FPS that take a more serious approach to survival and a hostile world and I can play those if I want that. al-azad posted:Probably not as sequence breaking decreased with each game. There's evidence that sequence breaking in the original games was unintentionally with a few exceptions like in Super Metroid where wall jumping and shinespark line up way too well to be accidental. Fusion also has the easter egg that acknowledges sequence breaking but overall I think Nintendo and Retro viewed them as bugs that needed to be polished out whereas Metroid and Super Metroid are pretty shoddily programmed as a whole. Fusion was really heavily gated but it was also panned heavily for that, so they responded with Zero Mission which is fantastically open-ended, and intentionally so. There was a "main path" but they built in tons of shortcuts and sequence breaks. I don't know how much of the sequence breaks in Super Metroid were intentional, but my guess is that since shinesparking and wall jumping were "secret" techniques they had a lot of smaller shortcuts that the player could find for themselves, but yeah, major sequence breaks that require stuff like mockball are definitely not intended. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 15:26
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about Far Cry 2
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Doom 64 was fuckin awesome. I'd expected it to be a bit easy, given its Nintendo origins and reliance on an iffy controller - but it really steps up in the latter set of levels. For example, you're thrown into transforming rooms with three Pain Elementals, four Barons and some Arachnotrons and expected to get on with it. Also, actually having a proper end boss was awesome, and a lot more involved and interesting to fight than I'd anticipated. Certainly more fun than mindlessly poking a Cyberdemon with rockets for 5 minutes. Doom 64 is one of my favorite games of all time and I'm always glad when someone plays through it the first time and shares their thoughts. The game is insanely hard on higher difficulties on real hardware. Not only is your turn speed limited because of the controller but you also have to cycle through your weapons. D64 EX isn't too bad on the higher difficulty levels but I feel that it's still considerably harder at its highest than Doom 2 is on UV. I've been pistol-starting the game with no quicksaves lately (I Own Doom! difficulty) and I've been having a hell of a lot of fun. The level design lends itself well to it. Game loving crashed after beating Map22 though 
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Sep 12, 2016 16:07
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I would happily pay full price for a HD PC remaster of the Prime trilogy. I'm sure as gently caress not going to buy another console however. Grow a dick, Nintendo.
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Sep 12, 2016 16:10
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my plan for a navy seals campaign is a hosed up bauhaus hellscape paced half-life style with combat setpieces and more tame walk-around sections with a lot of scripted player interaction but thats more of a 'what i want to do' than 'what i am currently working on' i put an action dive into navy seals and i don't know how i feel about it. it's useful for avoiding the ridiculous amount of grenades the npcs chuck at you. it's a lot like the dive in The Specialists except theres no player state system, its basically just a super crouch. it feels like TS though, which is all that matters tbh. also more polish like rifle shells RyokoTK posted:FC3 and 4 still have plenty of emergent gameplay and open-ended engagements like how you describe in FC2. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong or inferior to a scripted mission, although "scripting" in this case usually just means that you go to an area, kill everyone there, and then more guys show up and you have to kill them too; it's still pretty open-ended in how you want to kill them. The outpost engagements aren't scripted at all, and to me that's the most fun, and I don't really mind that the player is basically a superhero that can climb walls and murder an army of dudes with a bow and a knife. There are other FPS that take a more serious approach to survival and a hostile world and I can play those if I want that. what emergent gameplay in far cry 3? everything is so scripted and explicitly pointed out to the player i legitimately don't see how you can say that. i intensely dislike far cry 3 though and consider it a fine example of how to not make a game. when you're faced with like 30 dudes, yeah you have a whole boatload of resources at your disposal to kill them but because of that it isn't even fun. theres no sense of satisfaction in mowing down all of those dudes who don't pose a challenge and don't give any reward to the player. after the first tower i was like 'oh poo poo... this is the entire game isn't it' and got bored like an hour later because i had already got the semi auto rifle and there was zero challenge to the game (at all, whatsoever). i mean yeah i could go around shooting things with a different gun or with a bow and arrow or with a molitov - but it doesn't change much. like for fucks sake the animals were clearly marked on the map. if the game had any semblance of emergent properties you would be stumbling into alligator nests. there is no point during any part of far cry 3 where the game surprises you or puts you on edge without warning you beforehand. just cause 2 is still fun, on the other hand. because at any given moment you can pull off some dumbass stuff like 'poo poo out of ammo - im gonna grapple that helicopter to that last dude' and you do and you chuckle as a screaming man flies off into the sunset. not only would that situation never happen in far cry 3 (because ways to kill are so plentiful you never have to think of how you're gonna do it, nor will you ever find yourself in a situation where you can't immediately murder an enemy you want to) but far cry 3 does not give you any tools to create interesting emergent gameplay like that - unless you're considering \'hitting a dude with your car' or 'hitting a dude with a molitov' emergent gameplay :/ nigga crab pollock fucked around with this message at 16:46 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 16:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ9qJZ90w8I
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Sep 12, 2016 16:41
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Not that you're necessarily wrong about the FC games (I've never played any of them) but "emergent" doesn't mean unpredictable and constantly blindsiding you, it means elements of the game can combine and exhibit new behaviors. Predators fighting soldiers or opposing soldiers fighting each other without your involvement. Setting a fire to create an updraft that you can parasail on in the new Zelda game. Grappling cows onto helicopter blades. Automated farms in Minecraft. That guy who ran around Deus Ex HR killing dudes with a vending machine. Warthog jumping. Predictability is actually something you want here since it makes it easier to come up with crazy ideas that will work.
haveblue fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 16:59
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nigga crab pollock posted:what emergent gameplay in far cry 3? everything is so scripted and explicitly pointed out to the player i legitimately don't see how you can say that. i intensely dislike far cry 3 though and consider it a fine example of how to not make a game. If having a bevy of resources to take down dudes in any direction and playstyle you want, sometimes in random engagements on the map and sometimes fixed positions, is not emergent gameplay, then I guess I don't know what the term means.  It's cool to not like a game though. Maybe I don't remember FC3 that well but FC4 at the very least is not "heavily scripted" unless you mean having an enemy base marked on the map, and having guys be there when you get there, is scripted and explicitly pointed out. In which case then yeah man I think it's not the game you were expecting.It's not an overwhelmingly hard game but I don't need every game to be hard I guess. What I like about 4 is that I can wander around through the mountains and find dudes to kill and accomplish objectives at my own pace without there being a loving Man vs. Wild simulator built around it. e: ^ Yeah that's what I think of when I think of "emergent gameplay." One time in FC4 I approached an outpost to capture it, only to find that the guards had deliberately aggroed an elephant which proceeded to kill everyone inside it and it counted as a win. It was completely random and I thought it was funny as hell even though obviously I didn't "earn" a win in any appreciable sense. The only sense of "scripted" event here is that bad guys have an AI routine where they shoot at elephants and elephants defend themselves when attacked. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 17:01
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RyokoTK posted:
Yeah it's why it's "sequence breaks" instead of "alternate paths". 
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Sep 12, 2016 17:16
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There were a lot of those made on Doomworld. https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/85526-doom-songs-transposed-from-minor-to-major/ Also they're used in Jimmy's latest weirdo mod. https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/90605-demo-v0-1-7-a-boy-and-his-barrel/
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Sep 12, 2016 17:17
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RyokoTK posted:If having a bevy of resources to take down dudes in any direction and playstyle you want, sometimes in random engagements on the map and sometimes fixed positions, is not emergent gameplay, then I guess I don't know what the term means. the survival elements were probably the worst part of 3 and i never tried 4. but everything in 3 just felt like the truman show. there wasn't really a sense that the environment was anything less than drawn out in a map editor and homogeneously peppered with Content. like yeah there was a ton of ways to murder dudes but they basically only exist for you to shoot them (the game even goes as far as spawning in a platoon of randos from the jungle during Designated Shooting Time) and the game is always set up for you to be an unstoppable murdering machine anyways so it never builds any tension from any of it
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Sep 12, 2016 17:18
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nigga crab pollock posted:the survival elements were probably the worst part of 3 and i never tried 4. but everything in 3 just felt like the truman show. there wasn't really a sense that the environment was anything less than drawn out in a map editor and homogeneously peppered with Content. like yeah there was a ton of ways to murder dudes but they basically only exist for you to shoot them (the game even goes as far as spawning in a platoon of randos from the jungle during Designated Shooting Time) and the game is always set up for you to be an unstoppable murdering machine anyways so it never builds any tension from any of it yeah see that's kind of what I like about it.
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Sep 12, 2016 17:28
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RyokoTK posted:
I agree and wasn't knocking the gameplay of 3 and 4- I thought 3 was good and 4 was even better. If you play them side by side, 4 is more fun than 2, but only because it diverges from 2 instead of improving on it. That's not a bad thing- FC2 enemies were way too aggressive and took too many hits. I think it took 6-9 assault rifle bullets to kill a shirtless merc in 2 and even then they might be on the ground but could still pull a pistol and continue shooting at you. I only wish the gunplay and fun weapon gimmicks (FC2 the only game I know of other than Jagged Alliance 2 where you get to carry a mortar along with you) had been transferred over to a game without tower climbing and ammo pouch crafting, which I don't want to deal with at all.
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Sep 12, 2016 17:29
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RyokoTK posted:Actually thinking about Far Cry from earlier... man, the series really improved a lot after Ubisoft bought the name and did its own thing with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vfod9_jLWA
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Sep 12, 2016 17:45
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FC2 is by far the weakest of the series and I think people who prefer 2 over the others are brain damaged. I'm not even talking about the awfulness of the guard posts, but just the overall design. Look at the maps of FC2. Looks huge, right? Well if you overlay where you can actually travel it's only around 30% of either one, the remaining 70% is totally inaccessible. The huge world is just an illusion and everything is designed to funnel you into the outposts. Some of the story missions allow some freedom in how you approach the objective but most are so unbelievably linear it might as well be a corridor shooter. You have practically no stealth at all, it's just non stop going loud, shooting people wearing kevlar t-shirts. Oh all the guns are apparently made of paper mache and mine just loving exploded, and I'm dead, how exciting, how emergent. Also I don't think people who complained that the later ones get a bit empty of enemies when you take outposts actually loving played FC2, because this game is EEEMMMMMPTY outside of outposts and story missions, there's absolutely NOTHING TO DO but stare at the trees. And outposts? Here's how you deal with them once you get sick to loving death of dealing for the hojillionth time with the rear end in a top hat AI who will see you from a million miles away, drive faster than you, and literally kill themselves and/or drive across the entire goddamn map trying to catch you: just get a vehicle with a mounted machine gun, drive through, get on your gun and just blast everything. Whee, totally exciting and emergent. The game is tedium personified. I got 40 hours out of it, only because I was drinking heavily and tossed aside my "if it ain't fun don't do it" philosophy out of pure spite, replacing it with "I paid for this poo poo and I'm gonna finish it I won't let it beat me!!! yyyaaarrghgsjhdfgjhdsg!!!!" after realizing about 3/4rds of the way through just how miserably tedious the game was. Also the voice acting is so poo poo it's distracting beyond belief and it's overall loving bizarre beyond comprehension. I'd really like to know what the voice director was thinking. Anyone who says that might it be a half accurate version of how South Africans talk may or may not be right, but then EVERYONE talks like that, and the mercenary cast is about as diverse as you can make a group of mercenary killers so it makes no goddamn sense. The ending is just retarded, too.
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Sep 12, 2016 17:45
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Cardboard Box A posted:I actually miss the whole "linear progression through a series of wide-open levels" (as opposed to open world) thing the old Crytek games had, very few FPS games try it. It's too bad Far Cry 1 and Crysis 1 were shitted up by monsters of various flavors because each of those titles are half amazingly good and half interminably terrible. I seem to recall Crysis Warhead had a lot less alien stuff than regular Crysis and it was a massive improvement.
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Sep 12, 2016 17:49
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nigga crab pollock posted:my plan for a navy seals campaign is a hosed up bauhaus hellscape paced half-life style with combat setpieces and more tame walk-around sections with a lot of scripted player interaction but thats more of a 'what i want to do' than 'what i am currently working on' Are you going to make some kind of progress video or sth because I'm curious.
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Sep 12, 2016 17:56
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RyokoTK posted:I seem to recall Crysis Warhead had a lot less alien stuff than regular Crysis and it was a massive improvement. I think it had a fair deal of aliens, but they were usually thrown in alongside the NK so you could get in some great three-way battles. The devs might have tweaked their AI to be less obnoxious, too.
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Sep 12, 2016 18:01
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I will give Far Cry 2 this: It really nailed the whole "war is poo poo, and you're a lovely person for enjoying it" message that a lot of other games half-heartedly strive for and fail to achieve. It's rare to see a game with such strong contempt for the player.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:01
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The question is if that's a message worth exploring in a war game where it's supposed to be fun to shoot mans. Like, I don't think it's a controversial opinion or a hot take that war sucks; however, Far Cry 2 is not war, it is a video game.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:04
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That's kind of what I admire about it; it takes guts to make your game actively unfun to play just to ensure the consistency of your message. It's definitely more of an intellectual appreciation than a visceral one. I don't think I'll ever replay Far Cry 2, but it has stuck with me a lot more than most FPS titles.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:06
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