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On top of being good games, the books are also beautiful in terms of art direction and they feel pretty great as a big ol' RPG book.
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Sep 12, 2016 14:28
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Drone posted:On top of being good games, the books are also beautiful in terms of art direction and they feel pretty great as a big ol' RPG book. Like this cthulu cowboy 
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Sep 12, 2016 14:34
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Yeah Fantasy Flight is good on books. The Netrunner world building book is super nice. Just wish the bindings on their Dark Heresy stuff wasn't trash. I need to get my core rulebook replaced before they light everything on fire.
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Sep 12, 2016 14:34
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kingcom posted:Get Edge of the Empire or Age of Rebellion, its rad as gently caress. The game is entirely about you playing A New Hope and Empire Strikes back as chucklefuck heroes careening to the finish line. Also half the abilities + books in the game a star wars quotes. The most a jedi gets is Luke in a Empire, you can lift some rocks and get some bad feelings about poo poo but at the same time you have the Soldiers who can instantly kill every stormtrooper in a fight or the smuggler who can escape absolutely any situation, no questions asked. rear end in a top hat, I was trying to avoid buying more RPGs with no one to play with  Edit: Especially FF books which are hella expensive
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Sep 12, 2016 14:35
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Iron Crowned posted:rear end in a top hat, I was trying to avoid buying more RPGs with no one to play with but the paper stock is so thick~~~ Thankfully as far as I know the SW books all lack the binding problems that Dark Heresy was infamous for. Edit: it's also worth mentioning that FFG SW has a reputation for having a ton of splat books. You can totally have a kickass time with just the core books, and the splat books are generally all good for offering even more flexibility, but they're also like 25 a pop. Drone fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 14:38
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Radish posted:Yeah Fantasy Flight is good on books. The Netrunner world building book is super nice. Oh god, this. The binding on every single one of the 40kRP books I own has worn out badly.
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Sep 12, 2016 14:38
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Drone posted:but the paper stock is so thick~~~ I know, they are really nice books, one of these days I'll have friends that aren't old women and I'll be able to play RPGs. I probably should snag Dark Heresy, and whatever other 40k core books they have before they're gone first though.
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Sep 12, 2016 14:40
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Iron Crowned posted:rear end in a top hat, I was trying to avoid buying more RPGs with no one to play with If you just want to check it out you can try out one of the free adventures they have or the fan made (based on the Rebels tv show). Should give you a decent feel for it at least. http://www.d20radio.com/main/shadow-over-tarkintown-a-star-wars-rpg-rebels-beginner-game/
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Sep 12, 2016 14:42
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Iron Crowned posted:I know, they are really nice books, one of these days I'll have friends that aren't old women and I'll be able to play RPGs. I probably should snag Dark Heresy, and whatever other 40k core books they have before they're gone first though. Old women can RP dude, and they probably even know about Star Wars!
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Sep 12, 2016 15:02
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Iron Crowned posted:I know, they are really nice books, one of these days I'll have friends that aren't old women and I'll be able to play RPGs. You can play RPGs with old ladies. I've heard good things about the NCIS RPG
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Sep 12, 2016 15:05
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Night10194 posted:Oh god, this. The binding on every single one of the 40kRP books I own has worn out badly. They were really good about replacing my Ordo Hereticus book so I'm hoping they will be as good on the core rulebook. I think they acknowledged there was a big issue with their initial bindings.
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Sep 12, 2016 15:23
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Night10194 posted:Actually, I feel the refining was the worst part of 40kRP. The system just seemed to get worse and worse as time goes, to the point that I really wish I hadn't bought Only War. This was because they really wanted to do more action packed and heroic stuff than the original 'You're a bunch of nobody low level intel agents, go die to lovecraftian horror' pitch, but never really examined how to make the system work with that and just piled more and more cruft and bad subsystems onto it. Not to mention the completely out of control gear inflation and stat inflation over time, for everything except survivability. This is a couple of pages back but I kind of wanted to touch on this some more. I really don't understand what you're going on about gear and stat inflation, if anything both of these points got smoothed out going into the later systems. The later systems are also *significantly* less lethal than the early systems. Keep in mind that before Black Crusade, shooting guns on full auto gave you a +20 to the test on top of the extra hit per degree of success. This meant that you could game the system to your advantage with things like Autoguns, twin linking and (especially in Rogue Trader and Deathwatch) using storm bolters to allow you a completely asinine amount of hits on any given damage roll. While nice for the player, all those things could easily and readily be used against you too if your DM is feeling dickish and can basically end a player character on a good roll if they felt like it. By and large when you look at how things have advanced in the system, almost all the damage values have stayed fairly close to their original adaptation except in cases where they were underperforming or non-viable: -Melta weapons got a fairly big bump going forward from DH1, for example, and gained a fairly big chunk of damage because they were hug range and did kind of poo poo damage in DH1 against even medium/heavy armored targets vs what you could do in a full-auto burst with a auto gun and manstopper rounds. -Going in the opposite direction Scatter rules for shotguns were changed for Black Crusade and beyond in a way that made them more useful in short range but not hellishly deadly in point blank like they were in DH1/RT -Also in the same vein, Heavy Bolters are straight up nerfed going from DH1 to DH2. DH1 HBs did 2d10 damage with tearing (all DH1 bolt weapons have tearing per errata) and rate of fire 10. DH2 Heavy bolters did 1d10+5 Tearing with Rate of Fire 6. Statistically speaking the Dark Heresy Bolters do statistically higher damage (13.48 for DH1 versus 12.15 in DH2) plus the consideration that DH1 bolters have a higher chance to crit, have a higher rate of fire, and benefit from the +20 to full auto skill checks that DH1 had. -Long Las gained +1 damage and Felling (4) going into the later versions, but that's really not a big deal since player characters outside of BC and Deathwatch generally don't have unnatural toughness so it's really not all that much more lethal vs human PCs -Plasma weapon overheat got changed after DH to where plasma guns no longer have a chance to just detonate like a grenade in your hand which makes their use less lethal against the wielder. Especially in the early RPG systems there was basically never a situation where you wanted a plasma gun over a bolter and that was kind of a problem compared to how Plasma was portrayed in the fluff of the setting. -All this by and large meant that after the early 40k rpgs, single shot weapons got slight buffs and auto-fire weapons got mechanically hit fairly significantly with the FFG nerf stick. -Pretty much all the melee weapons have identical stat blocks going from DH1-DH2 with the only major reworking being to how primitive works to make it more consistent and actually make primitive weapons useful vs anyone who has more than 2 armor, and to differentiate between different levels of primitive to make a basic spear more deadly than a basic staff, which is something that kind of makes sense in theory. Rogue Trader started at a significantly higher gear level than DH1 because of course it did, you were playing some of the most resourced and best equipped people in the imperium versus DH1 being basically a fresh faced recruit. Stat inflation in those systems basically isn't a thing either for the same reasons as the gear differences isn't, it's a different splat meant to accomplish different things. If anything, the earlier systems feel very dated compared to the later ones if only due to the skill bloat that exists in DH1/RT with things like Move Silent, Concealment, and Shadowing all being separate skills rather than DH2 having the 'stealth' skill that covers all three. The one way I will freely admit that the later systems made the system more lethal was to de-emphasize Sound Constitution as character advances. This can actively be remedied with homerules that allow for free Sound Constitution advances at certain exp breakpoints (ever 1500-2000, for example). That's not even counting things like 'Unnatural XXXX' in the early books being goddamned ridiculous multiplicative modifiers that can do poo poo like give ascension level assassins 12+ agility bonuses or give Space Marines with power fists punch for something like 2d10 +24 damage if they build for it. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 15:57
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Iceclaw posted:Try again without ridiculous internet buzzwords like Mary Sue? I mean, yeah, fully trained Jedi are supposed to be in universe super powerful, though that's a lifetime commitment. So what? Ah yes, that Internet Buzzword that predates the internet by decades.
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Sep 12, 2016 15:57
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DeathSandwich posted:This is a couple of pages back but I kind of wanted to touch on this some more. I really don't understand what you're going on about gear and stat inflation, if anything both of these points got smoothed out going into the later systems. The later systems are also *significantly* less lethal than the early systems. Keep in mind that before Black Crusade, shooting guns on full auto gave you a +20 to the test on top of the extra hit per degree of success. This meant that you could game the system to your advantage with things like Autoguns, twin linking and (especially in Rogue Trader and Deathwatch) using storm bolters to allow you a completely asinine amount of hits on any given damage roll. While nice for the player, all those things could easily and readily be used against you too if your DM is feeling dickish and can basically end a player character on a good roll if they felt like it. By and large when you look at how things have advanced in the system, almost all the damage values have stayed fairly close to their original adaptation except in cases where they were underperforming or non-viable: It's less the base stats for the gear and more that every single PC has it. Take a look at Only War and ask yourself how many of the PCs will actually use a lasgun as their primary weapon, even at the beginning. And yes, the changes to rate of fire stuff and unnaturals were really good and needed, but the massive increases in weaponry were never really matched by any kind of increase in armor or durability and even more than before, combat becomes incredibly rocket-tag at high levels. Basically, they never came up with corresponding increases in toughness available to PCs and the only viable solution being to dodgetank as much as you could. There's no questioning the basic system improved. They ironed out a lot of the worse ideas from the first. What I mean is they consistently moved to a much higher power theme when the original system really wasn't good for epic high powered campaigns. My general complaint isn't 'it should've stayed DH1e all the time!' and more 'I really wish they'd gotten permission to write a new system for the later games rather than work with one another company developed and that FFG obviously wasn't that fond of.' E: Basically, FFG is most comfortable developing for stuff like Star Wars' and WHFRP3e's systems, and so I wish they'd been able to do the same kind of thing for 40kRP because I think they'd have put out a mechanically better product rather than be stuck polishing something that didn't work for them and was kind of a mess to begin with.
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Sep 12, 2016 16:20
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El Estrago Bonito posted:Ah yes, that Internet Buzzword that predates the internet by decades. Only at that time it held actual meaning instead of being shorthand for "I think this character I don't like is overpowered" like it is now. e: Just for info, I was more refering to Jedi rather than GK. Iceclaw fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Sep 12, 2016 |
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Sep 12, 2016 19:10
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I think the Space Marines who are even better Space Marines than the other Space Marines and are descended from the Emperor directly and also they get gear the others don't and they're all psykers and are the best at fighting daemons and not a one of them has ever been corrupted and their Chapter Master got sucked into the Warp but instead of dying he just started punching all the Daemons forever Mary Sues is fairly reasonable. Edit: I should say, I actually like the Grey Knights for how blatantly over the top they are
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Sep 12, 2016 19:15
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Don't forget that they murder women.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:16
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Guy Goodbody posted:I think the Space Marines who are even better Space Marines than the other Space Marines and are descended from the Emperor directly and also they get gear the others don't and they're all psykers and are the best at fighting daemons and not a one of them has ever been corrupted and their Chapter Master got sucked into the Warp but instead of dying he just started punching all the Daemons forever Mary Sues is fairly reasonable. Not to mention that even Great Daemons soil their loincloths at the mere thought of Kaldor Draigo existing in the same dimension as them. Though that ridiculous Dread Knight thing substracts a lot of coolness points. Avenging Dentist posted:Don't forget that they murder women. Which is considered an honor. Only the purest of Melta Maidens are worthy of becoming red paint for the Grey Knights' armor.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:20
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Look the un-corruptible chapter of super men needed that blood that was immune to corruption. Anywhere else this would be the not-subtle hint that those guys were actually evil and working for the villains but in 40k land murdering women that are your allies then using their dead bodies to decorate your armor is totally a cool and good thing to do.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:21
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Avenging Dentist posted:Don't forget that they murder women. oh poo poo, and they're more secret than the Raven Guard, and one just regular Grey Knight fought Angron and broke his arm and sent him back into the Warp
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Sep 12, 2016 19:21
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When a Grey Knight jumps in a lake, he does not get wet. The lake gets Grey Knighted.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:28
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I have a confession to make. Many moons ago, I committed the sin of giving GW money by buying a bunch of Space Marines, many of which remain unassembled in their boxes. If I were to sell/trade them to someone who is looking to build a Space Marine force for a more reasonable amount than whatever insane price GW are charging now, is that moral? I mean on one hand I am enabling a GW player, on the other I am stopping him from giving GW money (at least in part) and I'm certain he would be building the force anyway (he was looking for some bitz for a conversion anyway, which is where the topic of these boxes came up)...plus it clears out some of the mountain of unassembled & unpainted plastic taunting me.
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Sep 12, 2016 19:35
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It's moral as long as you sell them to someone who was going to get marines anyway (ie, don't lure your recovering friends back into the hobby this way) and as long as you spend the resulting money on good games, possums, or charitable donations.
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Sep 12, 2016 22:12
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Space Marines are cool
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Sep 12, 2016 22:19
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Ashcans posted:It's moral as long as you sell them to someone who was going to get marines anyway (ie, don't lure your recovering friends back into the hobby this way) and as long as you spend the resulting money on good games, possums, or charitable donations. Fair enough, I'm buying into Bolt Action right now anyway. Actually the bloke in question is actually going to teach me how to play (Bolt Action, that is, not Hams).
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Sep 12, 2016 22:49
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Avenging Dentist posted:Don't forget that they murder women. No Grey Knight has been corrupted and they are 100% pure. Except for the their Purifiers who are SUPER 100% pure and haven't been super corrupted. For reals. Iceclaw posted:Only at that time it held actual meaning instead of being shorthand for "I think this character I don't like is overpowered" like it is now. Didn't mean to but a bee in your bonnet, but at the same time learn to take a joke on the website www dot something awful dot com. I mean, the posts above yours was about Jedi in RPGs being super powerful and stuff.
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Sep 12, 2016 23:47
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Local art, made me think of you guys Could it be a sign we're getting a Warhammer store soon???
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Sep 13, 2016 00:00
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It's weird people saying jedi of all things(at least from the non-EU media) are over the top mary sue stuff. They're not really written to one-up something else, they're just part of the fantasy of star wars' space fantasy. Compare it to grey knights or space marines in general which are just written to one-up other things. I can dig someone liking the more grounded aspects of star wars though the tie fighters and imperial ships look extremely goofy. To be fair, though, a swastika on a space marine's shoulderpad wouldn't be out of place except for the fact that it cuts way too close to what 40k is really all about- neo-nazi fanfic.
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Sep 13, 2016 00:05
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I feel like WH40K had three phases. First was a satire similar to Judge Dread where the over the top nature of everything was the joke. Then was the really weird psychedellic phase like the Inquisition War Trilogy where there was the Star Child and weird electric tattoos. Now it's dropped the weirder stuff and turned into what it was originally parodying where all the stuff that was supposed to be a joke like the "good guys" being obsessed with skulls and space marines being genetically altered permanent man children is expected to be taken seriously.
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Sep 13, 2016 00:40
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I think I might be able to finish grieving for death of the games I once loved if I stopped reading threads about them every day. Maybe I'll also pack up the models that never get used any more and accept that my orc's and goblins will never be finished. Seeing them in the cabinet everyday keeps the wounds too fresh..
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Sep 13, 2016 04:15
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neaden posted:I feel like WH40K had three phases. First was a satire similar to Judge Dread where the over the top nature of everything was the joke. Then was the really weird psychedellic phase like the Inquisition War Trilogy where there was the Star Child and weird electric tattoos. Now it's dropped the weirder stuff and turned into what it was originally parodying where all the stuff that was supposed to be a joke like the "good guys" being obsessed with skulls and space marines being genetically altered permanent man children is expected to be taken seriously. I feel like the Judge Dredd phase and the psychedelic phase were really just two ends of the same era. It started off as a hard satire that was borrowing heavily from other sources and then through 2nd edition it tried to forge its own identity, but its roots and influences were still very obvious. 3e is the real shift where it changes from a satire to being grim-dark, but it was at least ambiguous about whether or not the Imperium were the good guys. Somewhere around 5e is when things started to be taken at face value and the Imperium became the good guys.
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Sep 13, 2016 05:17
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Atlas Hugged posted:I feel like the Judge Dredd phase and the psychedelic phase were really just two ends of the same era. It started off as a hard satire that was borrowing heavily from other sources and then through 2nd edition it tried to forge its own identity, but its roots and influences were still very obvious. 3e is the real shift where it changes from a satire to being grim-dark, but it was at least ambiguous about whether or not the Imperium were the good guys. Somewhere around 5e is when things started to be taken at face value and the Imperium became the good guys. They weren't even the ends of the same era. 40k wasn't just based on Dredd but more on 2000AD as a whole. 40k was HEAVILY inspired by Nemesis The Warlock. The main difference between 40k and Nemesis is that in Nemesis the Imperium/Emperor are the villains. This influence really continued pretty heavily up until like 4th ed or so, since most of Blanche's 40k art is pretty much him drawing stuff in the style of Nemesis. The marines are also pretty clearly influenced by Rogue Trooper and ABC Warriors (especially a certain 40k Assassin). 2000AD is a very interesting beast and it goes a long way towards explaining why 40k is the way it is. Basically all their comics were sort of tongue and cheek ironic satires of fascism/the police state/Thatcher era Britain/Racist politics/etc but in order to do that within the actual universe of each comic everything must be taken absolutely dead seriously. That was sort of what makes it work, that no one ever looks and winks at the camera, the characters in the story treat everything with a unflinching lack of irony which is what, you know, makes the irony work so well. There have always been fans of 2000AD that didn't "get" the irony angle of it, but it permeates the whole thing so well that you'd have to be pretty loving dumb not to. I think as we moved away from the 80's and British culture itself shifted into an area of taking things that were always meant to be goofy and a little bit dumb far too seriously (the Dr. Who reboot for one), there became this idea that you couldn't have both something that was a serious property for serious people and also have it be ironic or silly in any way. Combine that with the fact that, lets be real here, nerds are pretty loving tone deaf when it comes to fascist/extremist/sexist overtones in things (look at Frank Miller fans), it doesn't shock me in any way that the people currently in charge of 40k don't really "get" what made the setting interesting in the first place.
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Sep 13, 2016 05:57
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Out of curiosity, has anyone actually played any amount of Silver Tower? Is it even passable?
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Sep 13, 2016 08:14
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S.J. posted:Out of curiosity, has anyone actually played any amount of Silver Tower? Is it even passable? There was a guy in this or the other thread talking about how fun it was because everything was on random tables and you never knew (or had control over) what was going to happen. Edit: "This" being the previous Death Thread and "the other thread" being the Sad Thread. Atlas Hugged fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 08:51
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dmnz posted:I think I might be able to finish grieving for death of the games I once loved if I stopped reading threads about them every day. Ebay + Kings of War will help you out. Or 9th age if that is your thing.
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Sep 13, 2016 11:50
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LordAba posted:Or 9th age if that is your thing. Like treating heroin with morphine.
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Sep 13, 2016 12:04
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Softface posted:Local art, made me think of you guys That's some quality wall dogging right there
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Sep 13, 2016 12:19
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LordAba posted:Ebay + Kings of War will help you out. Or 9th age if that is your thing. I should try KoW, I just need to convince an opponent to try it too.
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Sep 13, 2016 12:52
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dmnz posted:I should try KoW, I just need to convince an opponent to try it too. Sounds like somebody is in the market for two armies.
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Sep 13, 2016 13:32
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Atlas Hugged posted:Like treating heroin with morphine. I don't know whether to laugh or feel bad reading those guys's posts/forums in other places. Its like meeting somebody who's stuck in the "Denial" phase of grief but its been years and they need to move on.
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Sep 13, 2016 14:00
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