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The konigs would be a lot cooler if it couldn't be citadelled from literally any angle.
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Sep 13, 2016 16:42
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The weak armor is the only thing keeping those guns in check.
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Sep 13, 2016 17:03
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So apparently some changes are going through on the PTR. Wait, does this mean yamatos can now citadel each other from pretty much any angle? Wasn't the issue with the montana was that it couldnt stand up to the yamato already due to overpen?
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Sep 13, 2016 17:05
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So apparently some changes are going through on the PTR. What a joke of a nerf to the Khabarovsk. A whole 0.4 second difference - and in practice even less since basically every single one is going to have BFT. I'm sure that's really going to cut down on that ~20k average damage gap between it and the other two T10 destroyers, especially with the new RADAR change loving them over as opposed to the relatively unaffected Khabarovsk. Range change is more significant, mostly to completely removing their invisifire zone, but most ships struggle to hit a full speed one at that range anyways. As for the other change... short answer is yes, 28mm of bow armor can be penned by 16" guns (so long as you don't have the magical fairy dusted bow of the Moskva). More in-depth answer, this is not so much a buff to Montana, but a totally unneeded buff to the German T9-10 battleships. Don't believe me? Go look at how the bow armor between the three nations is structured. Both the US and IJN have a contiguous value of 32mm across their entire bow, whereas the German ones only have a very thin strip of that value at the very tip (slightly larger for the T9, barely even there for the T10. Bismarck and Tirpitz do this too, but the previously 32mm area is much larger on them), with everything below getting far heavier 60mm armor. So you'll still get huge numbers of bounces with those, while everything else is vulnerable to everything. German T10s will likely stick with their default 16" guns now too, which actually reload faster than the ones on Montana. JuffoWup posted:Wait, does this mean yamatos can now citadel each other from pretty much any angle? Wasn't the issue with the montana was that it couldnt stand up to the yamato already due to overpen? Yamatos already had the capability of citadelling other Yamatos from any angle. Their 460 mm guns were the ONLY guns in the game that overmatched 32mm bow armor. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 17:14
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Lord Koth posted:As for the other change... short answer is yes, 28mm of bow armor can be penned by 16" guns (so long as you don't have the magical fairy dusted bow of the Moskva). More in-depth answer, this is not so much a buff to Montana, but a totally unneeded buff to the German T9-10 battleships. Don't believe me? Go look at how the bow armor between the three nations is structured. Both the US and IJN have a contiguous value of 32mm across their entire bow, whereas the German ones only have a very thin strip of that value at the very tip (slightly larger for the T9, barely even there for the T10. Bismarck and Tirpitz do this too, but the previously 32mm area is much larger on them), with everything below getting far heavier 60mm armor. So you'll still get huge numbers of bounces with those, while everything else is vulnerable to everything. So basically, this will be a buff to the Kurfurst?
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Sep 13, 2016 17:30
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Adventure Pigeon posted:So basically, this will be a buff to the Kurfurst? And to a lesser extent the Montana.
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Sep 13, 2016 17:34
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xthetenth posted:And to a lesser extent the Montana. Far more a nerf to the Yamato and a buff to the Friedrich/Kurfurst though. Any buffs to the Montana were basically made irrelevant due to the already better Kurfurst benefitting significantly more. If they really wanted to buff the Montana, they should have just made its 16" guns have special bonus considerations in regards to the overmatch mechanic. Hell, the German 16" guns even fire faster than the US ones.
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Sep 13, 2016 17:42
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I thought the reason ships didn't go bow-on in real life is that hits to the superstructure would rip through the entire length of the bow, increasing damage and oh-by-the-way casualties among the crew. Is that right?
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Sep 13, 2016 17:47
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Vengarr posted:I thought the reason ships didn't go bow-on in real life is that hits to the superstructure would rip through the entire length of the bow, increasing damage and oh-by-the-way casualties among the crew. Is that right? Ships didn't go bow-on because armor was more effective in real life than in the game, so why not get all your guns firing?
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Sep 13, 2016 17:49
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Also, you know, isn't getting your T crossed and thus having the enemy able to fire all weapons, you able to fire less weapons, and them having more room to get the range wrong and still hit you a terrible thing?
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Sep 13, 2016 17:56
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Although angling was considered (it was part of how they justified the Iowas as balanced designs), battles took much longer with far fewer hits so relative position and therefore the direction of movement was a lot more important, and in WWII fights were at long range, where deck armor was more important relatively, and that doesn't respond to angling at all. They would be a lot more likely to try and keep in their immune zone than to angle and commit to closing or opening the distance. In WWI they were running battle lines, and good luck getting 4-10+ ships in line astern to angle without absolutely screwing up their position relative to the enemy.
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Sep 13, 2016 17:57
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Night10194 posted:Also, you know, isn't getting your T crossed and thus having the enemy able to fire all weapons, you able to fire less weapons, and them having more room to get the range wrong and still hit you a terrible thing? I've had people yell at me for letting someone cross the T on me, which is hilarious when considering how this game works.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:02
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Ice Fist posted:I've had people yell at me for letting someone cross the T on me, which is hilarious when considering how this game works. Meanwhile, if someone crosses your T in steel ocean you are now hosed.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:06
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Night10194 posted:Meanwhile, if someone crosses your T in steel ocean you are now hosed. How's that one work incidentally?
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Sep 13, 2016 18:12
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xthetenth posted:How's that one work incidentally? Firstly, BBs fire from very long range and they get a top-down artillery view, limited by the fact that fully aiming in a shot takes like 10-15 seconds. So they can line up their intended point of impact right into your open deck if they're doing it right and go through the deck armor. Secondly, the aim circle is more of an oval, with higher vertical than horizontal dispersion, so if someone lets you cross their T you can get enfilade fire on them where it's mostly just a question of pens, not hits. Thirdly, if they let you get multiple salvos, the closer your aim point is to your last shot the more your crew zeroes in the guns and corrects calculations, so you get up to 50% accuracy if you're firing in the same beaten zone over and over. SO is really good, just the player population is tiny since they don't advertise the English server at all. It's my replacement for WoWS, personally, though I definitely get 'gently caress waiting 5 minutes for a match'.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:22
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Night10194 posted:Firstly, BBs fire from very long range and they get a top-down artillery view, limited by the fact that fully aiming in a shot takes like 10-15 seconds. So they can line up their intended point of impact right into your open deck if they're doing it right and go through the deck armor. Secondly, the aim circle is more of an oval, with higher vertical than horizontal dispersion, so if someone lets you cross their T you can get enfilade fire on them where it's mostly just a question of pens, not hits. Thirdly, if they let you get multiple salvos, the closer your aim point is to your last shot the more your crew zeroes in the guns and corrects calculations, so you get up to 50% accuracy if you're firing in the same beaten zone over and over. Okay yeah I remember that setup from back when warships was like that. That was kind of good times but also incredibly awkward.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:25
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xthetenth posted:Okay yeah I remember that setup from back when warships was like that. That was kind of good times but also incredibly awkward. Warships was originally like that rather than everyone being direct fire?
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Sep 13, 2016 18:26
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Night10194 posted:Warships was originally like that rather than everyone being direct fire? Yes. It was brutal for smaller ships and back then they were talking about BB  DD being equivalent at a 1:2:4 ratio, and the way DDs died backed that up.Manually controlled scout planes were interesting as well but they were right that they were too much of a management burden. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 18:43
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xthetenth posted:Yes. It was brutal for smaller ships and back then they were talking about BB The strat for DDs in SO is to hide in the water-bushes and creepily stare at a battle line that can't see them and is wondering why it's getting the poo poo shot out of it by BBs it can't see. Torp-rushing is a death run. Oh, also, they're needed to kill subs.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:45
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Night10194 posted:The strat for DDs in SO is to hide in the water-bushes and creepily stare at a battle line that can't see them and is wondering why it's getting the poo poo shot out of it by BBs it can't see. You responded before I mentioned manual scout planes  .
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Sep 13, 2016 18:46
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Night10194 posted:The strat for DDs in SO is to hide in the water-bushes and creepily stare at a battle line that can't see them and is wondering why it's getting the poo poo shot out of it by BBs it can't see. You can torp rush with well placed smoke in SO, you can shoot your smoke between yourself and the target to block LOS on approach. Much easier for me there than in WoWS, anyways.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:23
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Warbadger posted:You can torp rush with well placed smoke in SO, you can shoot your smoke between yourself and the target to block LOS on approach. Much easier for me there than in WoWS, anyways. And then you hear 'gently caress! PLON!' and the scout plane is over you and everything is on fire. Which is not an experience unique to SO for DDs.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:27
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wdarkk posted:Ships didn't go bow-on because armor was more effective in real life than in the game, Plus destroyers couldn't set your battleship on fire and burn it down for half of its hit points. Plus ranges were much further, shell travel times were longer, and the difference between hitting a target bow-on to you and hitting one side-on to you was pretty negligible.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:42
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If a real CA found itself in a mess with a battleship, didn't it just sail away and shadow it? Like with the Bismarck?
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Sep 13, 2016 19:44
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A Königsberg crossed my T at a few km range the other day when I was in my Omaha. It ended very, very, very badly for him.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:51
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Night10194 posted:If a real CA found itself in a mess with a battleship, didn't it just sail away and shadow it? Like with the Bismarck? Essentially yes, though a couple good shots before getting back out of gun range after some careless look out work could ruin a day, and shadowing from too far out meant a fast battleship could shake its tail in weather or the night, even with surface search radar.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:12
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Phanatic posted:Plus destroyers couldn't set your battleship on fire and burn it down for half of its hit points. Plus ranges were much further, shell travel times were longer, and the difference between hitting a target bow-on to you and hitting one side-on to you was pretty negligible. They could do a number on superstructure and really mess with the functioning of a ship, though. I kinda wish had a sort of panic mechanic in game rather than the endless "I hope I make fire on battleship"
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Sep 13, 2016 21:49
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Adventure Pigeon posted:They could do a number on superstructure and really mess with the functioning of a ship, though. I kinda wish had a sort of panic mechanic in game rather than the endless "I hope I make fire on battleship" And if they got closer they could make life way too interesting for the BB. Hiei took a pretty nasty hit from the San Fransisco at first Guadalcanal. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 21:53
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Just fyi, there is currently a bug on the Nagato where some of the sloped armor on its sides isn't working properly, leading to random citadel hits when the Nagato is angled mostly bow on to another ship, even to 8 inch guns. Might want to hold off on playing the Nagato till next patch.
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Sep 13, 2016 22:15
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Insert name here posted:I have no clue how the in-game trajectories are modeled in game when the shells hit water, but you definitely can get underwater hits. In early CBT you could actually cause flooding with them, but they removed that part. I actually went and tested in a training room about a month or two back so I'd have proof you can get underwater hits but I think I misplaced the screenshots/video somewhere. Are you saying artillery fire cannot cause flooding? Night10194 posted:If a real CA found itself in a mess with a battleship, didn't it just sail away and shadow it? Like with the Bismarck? Unless it bungled into a battleship because of visibility issues, yes. Heavy cruisers (and the Scharnhorst as well) were specifically designed to outrun what they could not outgun. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 22:56
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ZombieLenin posted:Are you saying artillery fire cannot cause flooding? Presently the only things that can cause flooding are torpedo hits and ramming (over a certain damage, I believe its inflicted on a 1k+ damage tick?). The only things to cause fire are a ship section being affected by the AoE of an HE shell, regardless of whether or not the HE munition (be it shell or bomb) actually hits the ship.
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Sep 13, 2016 23:13
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Night10194 posted:And then you hear 'gently caress! PLON!' and the scout plane is over you and everything is on fire. At least in SO you have a great chance in a lot of DD's to blow the gently caress out of the plane(s) from outside their spotting range. You get lit for a few seconds, dodge a salvo, and you're home free. In my experience DD's in SO were the best solo ships in the game. Avoiding fire worked much better than soaking it, you were fast as gently caress so you could dictate terms of most fights, could murder submarines, pick cruisers apart from a distance with guns, had decent AAA, and DD spotting outright won the vast majority of games (the rest being won by elite crewed pro carrier or well supported sub spotting). The only things I feared in that game in my DD's were a handful of crazy good carrier players and solo battleships in open water at the end of a game when out of both smoke and allied pubbie morons. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 23:55
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I just realized that my Colorado BB captain has 8 unassigned skill points, as well as probably most of my other ships. What should American and Japanese BBs focus on?
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Sep 14, 2016 00:13
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Code you can redeem in the premium shop for 15x Equal Speed Charlie London and 15x Zulu signals along with 20k silver: WEDIDITREDDIT20K (NA server only) To answer the post above, for battleship captains there are a couple schools of thought. A very common build focuses on repairs. You take Basics of Survivability, Expert Marksman, and then either High Alert, Vigilance, or Superintendant for an extra heal. For a level 4 skill I like Advanced Firing Training. This build is also good for AA. Japanese and German BBs start to get long-ranged secondary batteries at tier 7. If you grind up enough exp to take the five point skill Manual Secondaries and fit the secondaries upgrade to your ship, they can be quite potent. For American BBs I think its probably better to use Concealment Expert for your 5 point skill. Or simply take more of those 3 point skills. Lakedaimon fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 05:05
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Chill la Chill posted:I just realized that my Colorado BB captain has 8 unassigned skill points, as well as probably most of my other ships. What should American and Japanese BBs focus on? 1. Basics of Survivability 2. Faster turret rotation 3. Superintendent because four heals 4. Advanced Firing Training imo because that extra secondary range gets handy in higher tiers and more AA is never bad 5. Depends on what specific ship. Concealment Expert can allow some dumb things, Manual Secondaries combined with secondary mods makes you melt things that get too close and there's the real option to just skip on a fifth-row skill entirely to grab more nice things lower in the tree like Vigilance or High Alert or Basic Firing Training etc.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:49
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Lakedaimon posted:Code you can redeem in the premium shop for 15x Equal Speed Charlie London and 15x Zulu signals along with 20k silver: Nice, thanks!
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Sep 14, 2016 05:54
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This is something:quote:In todays twitch the developers mentioned that the RN cruiser line will be reworked, possibly getting Speed Boost, Improved Repair Party, better ballistics, orientation to AP, and may even lose HE. So instead of super Atlantas its super Nurnbergs. Maybe.
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Sep 14, 2016 06:46
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CitizenKain posted:super Nurnbergs 
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Sep 14, 2016 06:54
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God drat that'd be amazing. A whole line of Kbergs
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Sep 14, 2016 06:57
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So it turns out the white circle that turns red in Epicentre is lava, and kills any battleship that touches it
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Sep 14, 2016 08:52
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