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kid sinister posted:Most likely not. Some surge suppressors actually need that prong to suppress. Some older major appliances with big motors can fool GFCIs with false positives and cause them to trip. It's mostly fridges, washing machines and vacuums that do that. Awesome, so it's safe at least? I found an interesting thing (other than no ground wires) while doing GFCI installation on the first outlet in all the circuits. On one circuit, my non-contact voltage detector picked up a very small signal from the live wire from the breaker box even when the primary circuit breaker was turned off. Other than this signal from my detector, I can directly short the wiring with no ill effects (as long as the primary breaker is off) and it doesn't shock me either. I don't have any issues with the new GFCI tripping/resetting or anything else. What causes that detection?
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Sep 11, 2016 01:30
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baquerd posted:Awesome, so it's safe at least? I found an interesting thing (other than no ground wires) while doing GFCI installation on the first outlet in all the circuits. On one circuit, my non-contact voltage detector picked up a very small signal from the live wire from the breaker box even when the primary circuit breaker was turned off. Other than this signal from my detector, I can directly short the wiring with no ill effects (as long as the primary breaker is off) and it doesn't shock me either. I don't have any issues with the new GFCI tripping/resetting or anything else. What causes that detection? It's hard to say. The thing with non contact testers is that they test in an area, not on any one wire unless you really splay them out. Did you verify it with a multimeter?
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Sep 11, 2016 02:41
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kid sinister posted:It's hard to say. The thing with non contact testers is that they test in an area, not on any one wire unless you really splay them out. Did you verify it with a multimeter? Yeah, I should really get one of those  I did splay the wires way out though, nothing except air was within several inches of the one wire picking up the small signal. I've now also verified that the signal is coming from the circuit immediately above the one in question in the breaker box - turning that breaker off too removes the signal. Now I suppose I need to figure out the magnitude of the leakage with the multimeter, then track down the source of the leakage from that circuit unless some small leakage is somehow expected for adjacent circuits.
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Sep 11, 2016 14:52
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baquerd posted:Yeah, I should really get one of those Small leakage is normal. Those two breakers probably share a neutral, so the neutral current induces voltage in the other wires of the system. If you can touch the neutral and hot together and don't see any spark, you're fine to touch the wires themselves. Interestingly, if you have a decent digital multimeter, then you'll see 50-70V on the hot wire, but using an analog meter, you won't see anything. The high input impedance of digital stuff means the stray voltages can be seen by the meter, but the analog meter's movement draws microamps, which is more current than induced voltage can provide.
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Sep 11, 2016 15:40
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baquerd posted:Yeah, I should really get one of those I would greatly recommend one then. They are very useful tools and you can use them for lots of projects, from household electricity to car electrical repair to testing batteries. You don't need to buy some hundreds of dollars Fluke one either. You can get a good one for under $20. Hell, Black Friday is coming up. I swear I remember seeing ones for free after mail in rebate? I want to say I saw that at Harbor Freight?
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Sep 11, 2016 17:26
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Thanks to both of you! Multiple multimeter models are available for like  at my local hardware store, just need to pick one up.
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Sep 11, 2016 19:03
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baquerd posted:Thanks to both of you! Multiple multimeter models are available for like 
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Sep 12, 2016 01:21
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I need to replace a dimmer switch that is broken- the old switch only has two wires, while the new one has three, adding a green ground. My plan is to follow the wiring diagram for the hot and neutral wires, and just cap off the green one on the new switch and call it a day. Sound ok?
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Sep 12, 2016 04:23
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The light in my closet (one of those ceiling mounted light bulb holders with a pull chain) quit working while I was away for a week. Replacing the bulb didn't help. I measured it with a multimeter, and I'm seeing ~1.5 volts AC when the receptacle is on, zero when it's off. Weird, huh? Does that sound like any kind of normal failure mode?
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Sep 12, 2016 04:56
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Safety Dance posted:The light in my closet (one of those ceiling mounted light bulb holders with a pull chain) quit working while I was away for a week. Replacing the bulb didn't help. I measured it with a multimeter, and I'm seeing ~1.5 volts AC when the receptacle is on, zero when it's off. Weird, huh? Does that sound like any kind of normal failure mode? It sounds like the contacts in the switch may have failed. If you are comfortable opening a junction box those things are generally very easy to replace.
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Sep 12, 2016 15:28
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Hubis posted:It sounds like the contacts in the switch may have failed. If you are comfortable opening a junction box those things are generally very easy to replace. I'll have to borrow a ladder, but I should be able to do that. Thanks!
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Sep 12, 2016 15:33
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chef posted:I need to replace a dimmer switch that is broken- the old switch only has two wires, while the new one has three, adding a green ground. My plan is to follow the wiring diagram for the hot and neutral wires, and just cap off the green one on the new switch and call it a day. Sound ok?
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Sep 12, 2016 18:41
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chef posted:I need to replace a dimmer switch that is broken- the old switch only has two wires, while the new one has three, adding a green ground. My plan is to follow the wiring diagram for the hot and neutral wires, and just cap off the green one on the new switch and call it a day. Sound ok? If there's a green wire or bare wire in the box you MUST connect the green wire. If not, then make sure everything in the box is plastic and just realize if the dimmer fails, it can shock you.
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Sep 13, 2016 01:09
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chef posted:I need to replace a dimmer switch that is broken- the old switch only has two wires, while the new one has three, adding a green ground. My plan is to follow the wiring diagram for the hot and neutral wires, and just cap off the green one on the new switch and call it a day. Sound ok? Only the newer, more featureful dimmer have a neutral wire. Is this a switch leg? If so, you're also supposed to put some electrical tape on the white wire to show that it's no longer being used as a neutral.
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Sep 13, 2016 02:52
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kid sinister posted:Only the newer, more featureful dimmer have a neutral wire. Is this a switch leg? If so, you're also supposed to put some electrical tape on the white wire to show that it's no longer being used as a neutral. I do not think this is a switch leg, and I will not use it as one. It's a Leviton 6691. Here is the wiring diagram:  I have two wires currently connected to the dimmer, a one white and one black, or at least wrapped in a black cloth. The current dimmer just has two black wires.  The new dimmer has Black, Red and Green. I was going to do Black(dimmer) to Black (wall) and Red (dimmer) to White (Wall) and cap off the Green.
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Sep 13, 2016 05:35
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chef posted:I do not think this is a switch leg, and I will not use it as one. It's a Leviton 6691. Here is the wiring diagram: See how the box is metal? See how there's a small hole in the back of the box that a screw could go in? Get a green ground screw and screw your green wire to that. It is foolish, dangerous and against the law to do otherwise.
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Sep 13, 2016 11:47
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:See how the box is metal? See how there's a small hole in the back of the box that a screw could go in? Get a green ground screw and screw your green wire to that. It is foolish, dangerous and against the law to do otherwise.
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Sep 13, 2016 13:19
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Slugworth posted:Not saying you're wrong, just asking for my own education - Using the box for ground requires that there be conduit from the box to the panel, right? But if that's the case, then doesn't simply screwing the device itself into the box ground it? Unless the metal box is grounded, you are correct. Either a ground wire in romex needs to be attached to the box or you live in Chicago or its surrounding suburbs.
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Sep 13, 2016 13:43
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Slugworth posted:Not saying you're wrong, just asking for my own education - Using the box for ground requires that there be conduit from the box to the panel, right? But if that's the case, then doesn't simply screwing the device itself into the box ground it? And I think the above poster is also right, unless you have metal conduit or flex, it appears you don't have an equipment grounding conductor going to that device location. But if you do, the green wire needs to be attached to the box. I remember reading somewhere that they sell plastic cover plate screws and a sticker that identifies the location as ungrounded for this situation...anyone familiar with that?
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Sep 13, 2016 18:24
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ausgezeichnet posted:Unless the metal box is grounded, you are correct. Either a ground wire in romex needs to be attached to the box or you live in Chicago or its surrounding suburbs. Is this a joke post or like a real Midwest thing? I need to open up my outlets just north of Chicago and am praying for this on my 68 year old house
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Sep 13, 2016 18:34
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I seriously doubt the box is connected by conduit all the way to the panel. This is a 1905 house that had seen its fair share of questionable fixes. The outlets in the room are not grounded according to one of those plug in testers, and I can see various romex runs in the exposed basement ceiling not in conduit. Is there a way to test this? Assuming the box is not grounded properly, now what should I do? I have a contact voltage tester so I will confirm which wires are hot. I also just realized the black cloth wire may very well be knob and tube still, we have some on this floor. The outlets are romex in this room. The white seems more modern plastic coated though. chef fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 19:27
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mastershakeman posted:Is this a joke post or like a real Midwest thing? I need to open up my outlets just north of Chicago and am praying for this on my 68 year old house The mighty IBEW has ensured that an exception to the NEC has remained in both the Chicago and Suburban Building Codes used in Cook, Lake and I believe DuPage Counties prohibiting the use of Romex. I got really good at bending saddles, offsets and stubs in 1/2" and 3/4" conduit in my 20 years of rehabbing and just recently donated my conduit benders to Habitat before I moved to Florida. I kind of miss the existence and use of conduit down here. It sure makes rewiring circuits a lot easier and you rarely have to mess with grounding conductors. If your house is circa 1945 you might have rigid conduit and 1911 boxes in your house. You can pretty much hang a ballroom chandelier from that and not worry about it crashing down on your head. You also probably missed the knob and tube age as long as the house was built post-war.
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Sep 13, 2016 19:31
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ausgezeichnet posted:
My house (in Chicago proper) is from 1885 and had electrical (as well as gas and water) retrofit at some point in its history. It's mostly flexible conduit, with some rigid stuff in the more recent additions. Hilariously, the electrical supply to my garage is just romex that's suspended in the air about 7' off the ground. My electrician looked at that and went "yep, that was never to code." It's a 20A circuit 
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Sep 14, 2016 00:33
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mastershakeman posted:Is this a joke post or like a real Midwest thing? I need to open up my outlets just north of Chicago and am praying for this on my 68 year old house But I was legitimately weirded out walking down the electric aisle at the nearby Home Depot and seeing blue plastic boxes for the first time in my life. Like, I knew they existed, but Chicago area depots don't carry them. Slugworth fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 03:13
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As far as I'm aware, in Chicago, water lines must be copper, and waste cast-iron.
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Sep 14, 2016 03:27
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minivanmegafun posted:As far as I'm aware, in Chicago, water lines must be copper, and waste cast-iron.
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Sep 14, 2016 03:37
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Slugworth posted:But I was legitimately weirded out walking down the electric aisle at the nearby Home Depot and seeing blue plastic boxes for the first time in my life. Like, I knew they existed, but Chicago area depots don't carry them. They don't like smurf tube in Chicago?
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Sep 14, 2016 06:02
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kid sinister posted:They don't like smurf tube in Chicago? Just looked up smurf tube, definitely never seen that in a wall around here, but honestly I'm not sure I've ever really seen any elaborate low voltage stuff installed. Which in retrospect is strange, considering how many fancy-dancy homes I've done demo in. If the rich aren't filling their walls with smurf tubes, who is? .... It's all in Silicon Valley, isn't it?
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Sep 14, 2016 06:12
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Slugworth posted:You coming on to me? ENT aka smurf tube is allowed for mains voltage too, just nothing above 600V, so it's fine for residential power.
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Sep 14, 2016 07:46
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I'm going to mount my tv to the wall to keep grubby kid fingers from touching it and also to keep it from falling and maiming/killing said kids. I want to add an outlet behind the mounted TV so it looks nice and is up to code or whatever. Before I disconnect everything and get started, I had a couple of questions. 1) I likely don't have a ton of slack, and the outlet I'll be tapping off of is probably in the middle of a daisy chain. If there's romex coming in the top tabs (whatever they're called), how hard would it be to fish the new romex from one of the bottom tabs back up to the tv outlet? 2) if 1 is really difficult, how hard is removing the new work box that's most likely there and replacing with an old work box? 3) I have some of those side terminal outlets, I am not supposed to wire 3 sets of romex to one outlet though, am I? I have to pigtail? I guess the right answer is to replace the box, I'm just nervous about not having enough slack and I don't really know the right way to remove the box. Maybe I'll find the end of the pigtail and loop back around through the attic? I have a good bit of spare romex and I also have pretty easy attic access, assuming the end of the chain is on that same wall.
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Sep 14, 2016 16:00
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PuTTY riot posted:I'm going to mount my tv to the wall to keep grubby kid fingers from touching it and also to keep it from falling and maiming/killing said kids. I want to add an outlet behind the mounted TV so it looks nice and is up to code or whatever. Before I disconnect everything and get started, I had a couple of questions. quote:2) if 1 is really difficult, how hard is removing the new work box that's most likely there and replacing with an old work box? quote:3) I have some of those side terminal outlets, I am not supposed to wire 3 sets of romex to one outlet though, am I? I have to pigtail? quote:I guess the right answer is to replace the box, I'm just nervous about not having enough slack and I don't really know the right way to remove the box. Maybe I'll find the end of the pigtail and loop back around through the attic? I have a good bit of spare romex and I also have pretty easy attic access, assuming the end of the chain is on that same wall.  Oh, and for cutting the drywall to put in your recessed box, get yourself a drywall jab saw. Sooooo easy and nice. You just sketch your line, put the blade on it, give it a couple whacks with the butt of your hand to poke through, and then saw away. I don't know why some people use jigsaws or dremels or poo poo, they just make lovely holes with a lovely mess everywhere. Don't be that person. The saw costs <$10. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 16:08
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Bad Munki posted:Also super easy, just get a bare hacksaw blade, figure out which side of the box the stud is on, fish the blade in there between the box and the stud, and in a couple minutes the box will be free. Where work gloves, duh. Easy peasy. Note: you may have to jam a flathead screwdriver between the box and stud first and pry around a bit to make a gap big enough to fit that hacksaw blade in. They also make what's called a pocket/mini hacksaw if you want a handle on that bare blade. From experience, you want to orient the blade so that if cuts on the pull. Holding it the other way is a good way to fold the blade if you jam it while pushing it in. If you got one or can borrow one, I highly recommend an oscillating tool. They can actually do both cuts, removing the old box out of the wall and making a nice, smooth cut for the new box. Last tip: if you're replacing an old work box and want the replacement box to match the original, you may need to enlarge the hole slightly. The easiest way to match up the new box is to match the top and bottom holes for height. If you haven't already removed the old box, put up some masking/painter's tape to the side and use a level to draw a line on the tape at the height of the old box's screw hole. If you already removed the old box, then you need another box in that room. Take the face plate off and measure the distance between the bottom screw hole and the baseboard.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:29
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Does anyone know of anywhere I could buy outlets that have indicator lights as to whether or not they're not? This is for a shop where I'll have per-tool circuits, I want an extra layer of safety for when I think a tool is powered down, something like an indicator light at the outlet would be perfect. Of course, being a shop, it'd need to have various amperage and voltage options available. Semi-related: I'm going to have spray in insulation put in, so of course I need to wire up before that. I'm of a mind to use conduit, though, with a cord pulled through preemptively, so I can pull new circuits when I inevitably change my mind later on specifics. What would be the ideal kind of conduit to use for such a thing?
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Sep 17, 2016 03:01
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Bad Munki posted:Does anyone know of anywhere I could buy outlets that have indicator lights as to whether or not they're not? This is for a shop where I'll have per-tool circuits, I want an extra layer of safety for when I think a tool is powered down, something like an indicator light at the outlet would be perfect. Of course, being a shop, it'd need to have various amperage and voltage options available. I've only ever seen switches (pilot light) or just recently GFCIs like that. I did something similar, and I just used an illuminated pilot switch wired for "lit = hot" as my warning. Of course there's nothing stopping you from having a regular switched lamp of some sort just be your indicator. Hubis fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 04:01
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Couldn't you just put a nightlight into the other outlet in the box?
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Sep 17, 2016 04:02
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For any little 120VAC 15A outlets, sure. Doesn't help with the 240VAC outlets, or anything using appropriate plugs/receptacles for larger amperages.
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Sep 17, 2016 04:16
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Bad Munki posted:For any little 120VAC 15A outlets, sure. Doesn't help with the 240VAC outlets, or anything using appropriate plugs/receptacles for larger amperages. Don't be so sure! Apparently 240VAC night lights are a thing!
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Sep 17, 2016 04:36
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Well, that's not super surprising I suppose. Although I imagine the different form factors for the various amperage receptacles would be an issue. I like the idea in principal though, simple and easy to manage. Might be a good solution for some of the stuff.
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Sep 17, 2016 04:41
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You could put in a switch with a pilot light for each outlet
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Sep 17, 2016 04:47
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Another alternative, I suppose, would be to do that but use one of those in-box night lights, so it'd just be wired in instead of plugged in. Then I just need 120/240 variants and the receptacle form factor doesn't matter. Something like this: http://m.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-1-Wa...AQ&gclsrc=aw.ds e: gdi I'm dumb, that was literally the second suggestion. Sorry, doing this on my phone while putting kids to bed.  ee: or maybe not, I think I read that as a plug-in night light, not sure if you meant the plug-in sort or an in-wall type. Either way, the in-wall type would pretty much be exactly what I need. Awesome. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 04:55
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