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cheese posted:Probably because we have spent the last few decades pumping up post-grad education to the point where even an MA or PhD doesn't mean a whole lot. We also no longer (especially after 2008) really have enough jobs for the majority of college graduates, which has fueled a "go back to school and get your MA/PhD in the same field where a BA wouldn't get you a job" boom. Oh and rack up 6 figures of student loan debt while doing it. This already wasn't true, and today's economic news makes it doubly so.
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Sep 14, 2016 04:22
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Kim Jong Il posted:This already wasn't true, and today's economic news makes it doubly so. It wasn't true? WTF? What universe have you been living in?
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Sep 14, 2016 04:25
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Schlitzkrieg Bop posted:Chicago at least requires most cabs to take credit cards. If the reader is "broken," they have to have the old fashioned carbon paper up front to take payment. Of course, you have to weigh that against whether you want to push your luck with a moody cabbie. I've had the problem much less in the last few years though, credit cards are just a fact of life they need to deal with.
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Sep 14, 2016 04:41
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Discendo Vox posted:I think we've identified the locus of your problem. Discendo Vox posted:
Airbnb isn't purely about price, which is why they didn't fight paying hotel taxes. Edit: enjoying the new thread title. nm fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 04:48
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nm posted:I thought you were a better poster than that. Seriously. Dude, they did try to fight back. They backed off when they realized it wouldn't work, and that they could still circumvent other regulations (such as zoning laws, which are kinda important) that would let them undercut hotels. They're still operating at a loss, though I can't find exact numbers. Their only route to profitability is to drive all competitors out of the market before their costs and regulators catch up with them and their bubble bursts. I mean, there's a reason the thread has this title. More generally, your argument is built on the assumption of legal circumvention, on the failure of law to produce socially preferable outcomes. Do you understand why that might raise ethical concerns, especially when you started this argument by framing the whole thing on how the company benefits your personal convenience? And yes, other companies provide the service airbnb does- they're called hotels. Cripes, this is the SUV argument all over again. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 04:55
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nm posted:Actually, I'm not sure that is true with airbnb. It essentially provides a service no one else does (except vrbo). well, so do drug dealers
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Sep 14, 2016 05:19
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Halloween Jack posted:I got bad service from multiple cab companies and I would prefer good service from any cab companies that provide it. I like Uber's app-based model with up-front pricing. I've also gotten the same service from good cab companies and am willing to pay more for it as long as I get the good service. I'm not sure why this is a problem for you. Law abiding cab companies in metro areas are increasingly using apps that accept credit card as hail and payment, try checking to see if the cabs in your area do.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:32
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I think the problem is that you combine separate and distinct points. 1. I think airbnb decided quite early that paying taxes were the path to appearing legitimate. They support laxer regulations, but they're not an uber level player that takes their balls and goes home. Locally, at least, airbnb has been a fairly reasonable actor when it comes to regulation. That puts them miles above most distruptors. 2. I don't think airbnb is really a legal issue for most people. Most of complaints about airbnb are not the result of breaking laws -- they may be legitmate, but they are not based on laws airbnb breaks. This is compared to uber, whose biggest complaints are abuse of labor laws and lack of proper insurance. I know that you tend to conflate ethical and legal, but you can be legal and unethical and vice versa. This is I think why "but they are breaking laws!" doesn't work as well with airbnb v. uber. Or maybe people just think loving over workers is a problem. 3. The reason I don't think airbnb is as concerned about being regulated is they provide a different product. Yes, they take some clients away from hotels, but i do not believe a fair percentage of those clients really care about the savings. Most would probably stay at an airbnb if the costs were comparable. Hotels tend to focus on a business clientile and have locations and services based on those needs. Airbnb focuses more on tourists and focuses more on that. They are more analogous to bnbs except that they don't have doilies and lace everywhere.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:33
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nm posted:1. I think airbnb decided quite early that paying taxes were the path to appearing legitimate. They support laxer regulations, but they're not an uber level player that takes their balls and goes home. Locally, at least, airbnb has been a fairly reasonable actor when it comes to regulation. That puts them miles above most distruptors. Their only difference from Uber is that they use https://bribery. The damage done is the same. nm posted:2. I don't think airbnb is really a legal issue for most people. Most of complaints about airbnb are not the result of breaking laws -- they may be legitmate, but they are not based on laws airbnb breaks. This is compared to uber, whose biggest complaints are abuse of labor laws and lack of proper insurance. People don't complain about airbnb breaking laws, they complain about the effects of airbnb breaking laws. Again, zoning and inspections are the biggest example here. Again, the "loving over workers" is a thing that is able to happen because airbnb breaks laws. nm posted:3. The reason I don't think airbnb is as concerned about being regulated is they provide a different product. Yes, they take some clients away from hotels, but i do not believe a fair percentage of those clients really care about the savings. Most would probably stay at an airbnb if the costs were comparable. Airbnb is not profitable. It cannot be profitable without capturing the market from conventional hotels, and bnbs, and motels, and anywhere else, that obey the law. Their entire scheme is to drive competitors out of the market before the costs of their approach become clear, their money runs out, or regulators begin banning them.
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Sep 14, 2016 05:39
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Wait, you think airbnb's business plan is to drive hotels, most of which are run by large multinational chains, out of business before they can be regulated?
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Sep 14, 2016 05:42
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nm posted:I think the problem is that you combine separate and distinct points. they sometimes follow the law, and sometimes don't depending on how easy it is to get away with it. this link has more. "We follow the law if you call us on it!" is sadly above most disruptors but still not laudable quote:2. I don't think airbnb is really a legal issue for most people. Most of complaints about airbnb are not the result of breaking laws -- they may be legitmate, but they are not based on laws airbnb breaks. This is compared to uber, whose biggest complaints are abuse of labor laws and lack of proper insurance. reminder that earlier i said my main problem is that i dont like business models which basically collect a cut from outsourcing petty crime. i dont care if people do it but i do care if there's a for profit organization encouraging and facilitating people turning a buck off petty crime quote:3. The reason I don't think airbnb is as concerned about being regulated is they provide a different product. Yes, they take some clients away from hotels, but i do not believe a fair percentage of those clients really care about the savings. Most would probably stay at an airbnb if the costs were comparable. the reason airbnb is often cheaper is because they have less expenses by not adhering to local regulations like fire safety for a commercial dwelling or paying sales tax. uber is cheaper because they have no overhead and by hiring the driver as a 'contractor' they can easily pay less than minimum wage as payment is based on driver activity and the volume of business. like yeah, it's much easier to provide a quality product for cheaper if you purposely sidestep cost-adding regulations, this is pretty much how most crime works nm posted:Airbnb focuses more on tourists and focuses more on that. They are more analogous to bnbs except that they don't have doilies and lace everywhere. well, nearly all bed and breakfasts register as hotels and adhere to local hotel regulations. with airbnb it could go either way. that's the big difference i see
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Sep 14, 2016 06:02
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and i just want to emphasize one more time in a separate post that i'm not trying to wave a moralist flag and accuse others of illegal behavior. i smoke weed, i dont care, do whatever i just think it's hilarious that more than one billion dollar company's business model relies on its end users breaking the law in a really minimal way so they can send a percentage back to headquarters. i should find a way to set up a gray market lottery or numbers racket and retire early. we can call it Rollr. this is what silicon valley can come up with, apps that deliver groceries to me at a mild markup and basic level organized crime rackets
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Sep 14, 2016 06:06
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Popular Thug Drink posted:and i just want to emphasize one more time in a separate post that i'm not trying to wave a moralist flag and accuse others of illegal behavior. i smoke weed, i dont care, do whatever Pretty sure they're called games with in-app purchases. I agree in theory, I guess I don't care so much about airbnb because they don't seem actively evil like the ubers and others they are compared to. I also will admit to liking the product, independent of price and would happily pay more to ensure that it is legal -- I like seeing, for example, that I am paying local hotel taxes as I have in basically every airbnb I've ever booked (which has only been 4, I think). re: B&Bs, I understand that, I just think that B&Bs are the closest thing to airbnb there is in terms of the product. Airbnb is a little less personal and less "cute" than the average B&B, so I think the average single person (and/or me) is a bit more comfortable with them. B&Bs still generally don't provide access to stoves and even laundry access is sketchy.
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Sep 14, 2016 06:24
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If you make enough money on airbnb they report your income to the IRS. You enter it as Schedule D rental income. You can deduct your expenses (or a portion thereof if you live there.) Depending on the city, AirBNB also collects local taxes at transaction time. The host has no control over this, and the AirBNB platform is smart enough to know when various taxes apply (like not charging local taxes for 2 month stays). There are a good number of AirBNB hosts who live in a place full time and then go stay at a friend's house when it books. These tend to be in places where everything doesn't book all the time (ie, cities that build enough housing, or resort towns with well-defined travel seasons).
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Sep 14, 2016 07:26
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the only people i ever see defending airbnb are people who rent out their property using it
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Sep 14, 2016 08:05
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Interestingly enough, most AirBnBs that actually get used are commercially-owned. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/vancouvers-top-airbnb-earners-are-commercial-hosts-research/article30324477/ There are definitely people who rent out all or part of their home, but they only account for about 5% of AirBnB stays by revenue. E: at least in Vancouver, but that article mentions similar research in New York.
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Sep 14, 2016 09:00
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:the only people i ever see defending airbnb are people who rent out their property using it
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Sep 14, 2016 10:20
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ShadowHawk posted:If you make enough money on airbnb they report your income to the IRS. You enter it as Schedule D rental income. You can deduct your expenses (or a portion thereof if you live there.) For anyone taking this post seriously, this person willingly lived in a "hacker hostel" and has obviously drunk the silicon kool aid.
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Sep 14, 2016 12:11
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The appeal of Uber for me is unrelated to the price. I wouldn't mind paying the going taxi rate (which is kind of a lot in Boston) for the following things on a reliable basis: - driver accepting credit card without lying or fighting about it - cabs being clean and not smelling like stale cigarettes - driver having GPS and knowing the destination in advance (even when I call ahead for a cab, frequently the driver arrives with no idea where to go) - fare estimates - rating/feedback if the driver is rude or insane etc. - knowing the driver's name/face and the car license before getting in - seeing how close the cab is while I'm waiting - having tip included in the fare so I don't have to carry cash If an app/platform comes along that can provide these things on top of the existing medallion system, I would be overjoyed. Even better, obviously, would be to reform the medallion system to allow more competition for new cab companies who comply with regulations. There shouldn't be an artificial scarcity of cabs. It should only be limited by a company's ability to insure and comply with safety and labor laws.
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Sep 14, 2016 12:43
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nm posted:
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Sep 14, 2016 13:26
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mobby_6kl posted:And the people using it to find a place to stay. On the other hand, the opposition seems to be mostly from the established hospitality industry, based around "the law is the law" and vague ramblings about externalities. Do...do you not know what an externality is? Do you not know why zoning laws exist?
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Sep 14, 2016 13:50
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remember when someone died at an airbnb
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Sep 14, 2016 13:55
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Interestingly enough, most AirBnBs that actually get used are commercially-owned.
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Sep 14, 2016 14:52
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FlamingLiberal posted:I think an article came out about that being the case in a lot of major cities. Yea, having used it a bit and having my dad airbnb bis place nonstop, it's clear that the expectation from guests is a pristine place that has no evidence of the owner being there. So it's much easier for corporate types to just have a property manager and cleaning service handle a bunch of properties than any other method.
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Sep 14, 2016 14:55
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mobby_6kl posted:And the people using it to find a place to stay. On the other hand, the opposition seems to be mostly from the established hospitality industry, based around "the law is the law" and vague ramblings about externalities. haha yeah maybe if you expand "the hospitality industry" to include anyone annoyed at having an airbnb neighbor and anyone fed up with living in a city experiencing a housing crisis (since airbnb has been widely reported to take a significant number of residencies off of the rental market everywhere they've measured it) these are examples of the nebulous "externality" you seem to be unfamiliar with btw which have a significant number of people pissed off beyond bed & breakfast owners and whoever you think whiteknights for hotels
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Sep 14, 2016 15:35
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#MarriottMatters #FourSeasonsForAll #CheckInNotOut Urban planning depends on zoning laws. Annulling them would have the effect of turning all effected areas into Texas. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 15:43
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EDIT: Oops, thought this was the California thread.
e_angst fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 15:57
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There was an AirBnb next to me in NYC that was obnoxious. They were loud as hell at least 2x a week so I kept having to get up at 3am to ask people to keep it down. They were always very nice and complied but having to have the same conversation over and over was kind of draining. It's not like a normal neighbor where we could have worked it out by being adults and having a conversation. I talked to the guy who ran it and he put a notice to be quiet in the ad. It didn't do much. Also, finding vomit and dropped street food in the hall got old. I think they got evicted for it. At the very least it isn't being rented to tourists anymore.
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Sep 14, 2016 16:11
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e_angst posted:EDIT: Oops, thought this was the California thread. The fall of unicorns: Oops, thought this was the California thread.
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Sep 14, 2016 16:17
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neonnoodle posted:The appeal of Uber for me is unrelated to the price. I wouldn't mind paying the going taxi rate (which is kind of a lot in Boston) for the following things on a reliable basis: There should absolutely be an "artificial scarcity of cabs" because every cab roaming the streets looking for fares has a far worse impact on city traffic than a normal car.
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Sep 14, 2016 16:36
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neonnoodle posted:The appeal of Uber for me is unrelated to the price. I wouldn't mind paying the going taxi rate (which is kind of a lot in Boston) for the following things on a reliable basis: So you want the regular swedish cab industry?  Like everything but the "see how close the cab is" and ability to report drivers is industry standard. Legislation does work, it was poo poo just 5 years ago here in Stockholm for instance.
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Sep 14, 2016 18:18
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The majority of Airbnb's I've stayed in have been people renting out their extra room, granted I usually go for the cheaper ones though. Airbnb's becoming party houses has become a definite issue in some parts of town though.
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Sep 14, 2016 18:32
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MiddleOne posted:So you want the regular swedish cab industry? Stockholm is the only place I've had the cab driver pull the "credit card machine broken" trick. However, stockholm also has (had, he was pretty old and this was a few years ago) with a loving mercedes grosser which was baller as loving hell.
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Sep 14, 2016 18:43
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nm posted:the "credit card machine broken" trick. aka the "cool my ride was free" trick
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Sep 14, 2016 18:47
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:aka the "cool my ride was free" trick How does that work? I have a feeling the machine will suddenly be fixed if you say you just have a credit card. Also I noticed they stopped doing this poo poo ever since Uber got huge(in LA anyways). Buckwheat Sings fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Sep 14, 2016 |
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Sep 14, 2016 19:40
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nm posted:Stockholm is the only place I've had the cab driver pull the "credit card machine broken" trick. Can't have been in glorious 2016 where no one in Stockholm has cash anymore.  But yeah it used to be really bad. I moved in after things started changing but I remember it cropping up in the news on a monthly basis back in 2010.
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Sep 14, 2016 19:46
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Every drat time I've had to take a cab from the airport here in Orlando it's a taxi that has no suspension left. Like I never get car sick but I have the times I've been in these cabs.
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Sep 14, 2016 19:55
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I like Ubers because trying to get a cab otherwise I feel physically ill with how gross they are. I've had 'real' cabs that smelled like cigarettes so strongly it set me off on coughing fits the whole time I was in the cab. I've had 'real' cabs with abandoned fast food ON the back seat. I've had 'real cabs' where the driver intentionally got himself lost and didn't listen to my directions (because OF COURSE he didn't use GPS) just to make it cost more. And oh, I've definitely had cabs where their credit card machine didn't work, until I revealed it was all I had on me, when it suddenly worked again. The worst I've had with Ubers was a driver who really wanted to talk to me about weed regulations (I am in california) and how we should just legalize weed. His car was still spotless, he put my phone on the aux and listened to my music with me. The cab industry sucks, and I hope Uber drives it out of business, and then when it no longer has to 'compete' with them is able to be better to their employees.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:30
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KittyEmpress posted:and then when it no longer has to 'compete' with them is able to be better to their employees.  if you think that's ever going to happen.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:32
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KittyEmpress posted:The cab industry sucks, and I hope Uber drives it out of business, and then when it no longer has to 'compete' with them is able to be better to their employees. Yeah, monopolies are forced to treat their employees well.
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Sep 14, 2016 20:33
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