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Any employer whose "relationship" would be compromised because of good-faith compensation negotiation can go piss up a rope.
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Aug 25, 2016 18:30
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I agree, that article is crap. Negotiation is a game, it's an adversarial zero sum game. You can collaborate with people who you have previously been adversarial with, it's pretty much a necessity of being a successful adult. There are limits to the game, there are losing aggressive moves, and you can be a better negotiator than you are at your nominal job responsibilities. The most onerous part though: people looking for advice in negotiating are probably sufficiently unfamiliar to be underpaid, which means that their expectations are probably sufficiently low that they will anchor the discussion low. Pretty much everyone who is just starting off at negotiating and getting their feet wet will do better to stay tight lipped about their current expectations and their current salary and force an employer to disclose a number first. While a person who is confident and well compensated might do well with an opening demand, it's not advice that anyone can pick up and succeed with. Dwight Eisenhower fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 25, 2016 |
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Aug 25, 2016 22:09
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Company A gave me an offer! Hurrah! Company B interviewed me and said I was their best candidate by far, and there is only one candidate interviewing after me. I like Company B better, but they said I can expect a response Tuesday or Wednesday, and Company A said they need a response by Monday. What do I do?
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Aug 27, 2016 19:24
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SmellOfPetroleum posted:Company A gave me an offer! Hurrah! Ask company A for more time and tell company B that you need a response asap because you have an offer from another company but would prefer them. You can pretty much give any reason to A but a common one is that you need to discuss it with your family.
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Aug 27, 2016 20:13
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Company A already gave time to consider the offer but didn't want to go past Monday. How bad would it be to agree to the job but put off actually going in to sign things till Thursday? Regarding Company B, I am worried that telling them about the other offer will a) give them a baseline for their pay offer and b) be rude considering they still have to interview someone on or after my deadline.
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Aug 27, 2016 22:14
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Nope, not rude. They wouldn't hesitate to ask you to sign even if you had another interview, as company A did. You can tell them you have other deadlines without telling them the compensation.
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Aug 27, 2016 23:40
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SmellOfPetroleum posted:Company A already gave time to consider the offer but didn't want to go past Monday. How bad would it be to agree to the job but put off actually going in to sign things till Thursday? Very little company a could do but keep in mind you'd be risking burning some bridges
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Aug 28, 2016 09:33
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Thanks for your advice. I will definitely ask Company B if I can have an answer sooner. I will decide later if I will ask Company A for more time or just accept and potentially have to back out.
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Aug 28, 2016 15:06
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Thanks for the responses to my questions last page. Wanted to chime back in and say we agreed on a $1 raise. Was fairly painless, but more importantly, the experience of asking makes asking again in the future that much easier. I told a friend of mine and she said she's never asked. I was a bit shocked. I've also read however that women are less likely to ask for raises and that accounts for some of the reason why women are generally paid less for the same job. Obama signed link related a few years ago to combat this. But it got me thinking, what does this thread think of the taboo of not discussing wages with coworkers? Justified? None of anyone's business? A form of control? Meant to keep workers ignorant? https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/04/08/executive-order-non-retaliation-disclosure-compensation-information
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Aug 29, 2016 22:14
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Yeah that excerpt is referred to in the title but it's only really one little paragraph of the article. I think it's completely wrong even if the rest of the article is fine. I don't know what range offers are typically negotiated in, but at least in my industry, the margins the company has to make on an employee for them to be worth keeping are way higher than any typical salary negotiation could net anyone. I'm pretty skeptical that he actually knows someone who lost their job because they negotiated their salary too high - pretty sure they would have lost their job anyway if they weren't deemed competent enough for the role.
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Aug 29, 2016 23:37
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rizuhbull posted:Thanks for the responses to my questions last page. Wanted to chime back in and say we agreed on a $1 raise. Was fairly painless, but more importantly, the experience of asking makes asking again in the future that much easier. I told a friend of mine and she said she's never asked. I was a bit shocked. I've also read however that women are less likely to ask for raises and that accounts for some of the reason why women are generally paid less for the same job. Obama signed link related a few years ago to combat this. But it got me thinking, what does this thread think of the taboo of not discussing wages with coworkers? Justified? None of anyone's business? A form of control? Meant to keep workers ignorant?
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Aug 29, 2016 23:39
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Dik Hz posted:I think it goes both ways. People overestimate their own contributions to team successes and downplay their role in team failures. So they almost always think they contribute more than their peers. So it can be highly demotivating for people to find out coworkers make more than them. But their are also companies that put the hush on coworkers discussing salary to get away with paying poo poo. I mean most companies discourage it, lawfully or not.
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Aug 30, 2016 01:08
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So I'm in an odd situation that's made researching salaries on the tough side. It's an internal hire for a new position at a non-profit (a huge, really profitable non-profit), and I pretty much all but have the job already. I strongly suspect I'm the only candidate, and given the bump in responsibilities, and going from part-time wage to full time salary, I think I'm due for a substantial pay bump. The trouble is I have no idea what a good target number is, and when I look for (get a load of this job title, by the way) 'Assistant Guest Experience Manager/Manager on Duty' I mostly find jobs that are for hotels and stores with something like 10-15 people under them, where I'd have, depending on the day, 25-100 people to supervise and 5k-15k guests daily, and additional work when I'm not the MOD. I'm more looking for tactical advice, I suppose I should just wait and listen to what number they throw out then go from there?
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Aug 30, 2016 11:52
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MatildaTheHun posted:So I'm in an odd situation that's made researching salaries on the tough side. It's an internal hire for a new position at a non-profit (a huge, really profitable non-profit), and I pretty much all but have the job already. I strongly suspect I'm the only candidate, and given the bump in responsibilities, and going from part-time wage to full time salary, I think I'm due for a substantial pay bump. The trouble is I have no idea what a good target number is, and when I look for (get a load of this job title, by the way) 'Assistant Guest Experience Manager/Manager on Duty' I mostly find jobs that are for hotels and stores with something like 10-15 people under them, where I'd have, depending on the day, 25-100 people to supervise and 5k-15k guests daily, and additional work when I'm not the MOD. I'm more looking for tactical advice, I suppose I should just wait and listen to what number they throw out then go from there? Have you checked glassdoor.com yet?
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Aug 30, 2016 11:56
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rizuhbull posted:Thanks for the responses to my questions last page. Wanted to chime back in and say we agreed on a $1 raise. Was fairly painless, but more importantly, the experience of asking makes asking again in the future that much easier. I told a friend of mine and she said she's never asked. I was a bit shocked. I've also read however that women are less likely to ask for raises and that accounts for some of the reason why women are generally paid less for the same job. Obama signed link related a few years ago to combat this. But it got me thinking, what does this thread think of the taboo of not discussing wages with coworkers? Justified? None of anyone's business? A form of control? Meant to keep workers ignorant? At my old job there was a management effort to keep people from discussing salaries, as well as to keep people from providing feedback directly to each other. Neither of these were healthy. It also didn't work. People who left often had salary discussions with peers on their way out the door about both what they made and what they would be making. It spread to employees having discussions about compensation prior to leaving, which then lead to numerous people, including me, leaving. Discussing wages is one of the ways that workers find out they're getting stiffed. It can cause its own share of problems but keeps management honest. The reason its discouraged is because nearly all of the negative consequences of not discussing wages fall on rank and file employees.
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Aug 30, 2016 13:46
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Dik Hz posted:Have you checked glassdoor.com yet? Yep, like I said all the common websites are for hospitality industry jobs that are much smaller scale, around 30-35k.
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Sep 1, 2016 01:41
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What do you make right now and what is your current title in relation to the promotion
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Sep 1, 2016 02:34
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Part time, a bit lower than 20k annually. Current title is Lead Guest Service Associate, and it's adjacent to but in a different subdivision of the department, but there's a vague plan to move the some responsibilities around that would ultimately make whoever gets this new job the manager of the team I'm currently in. This job is jumping several rows in the echelon chart and is "senior staff", so I feel comfortable asking for 40 or so, if it comes down to them demanding a number.
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Sep 1, 2016 03:43
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I've been sending out a ton of resumes and i got a response basically saying thanks for the resume please forward your salary expectations. Now I haven't been interviewed and have no idea what the position would be paid. So it's a bit of an awkward spot for me. Suggestions?
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Sep 1, 2016 17:18
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Goodpancakes posted:I've been sending out a ton of resumes and i got a response basically saying thanks for the resume please forward your salary expectations. How could you possibly know what your salary expectations are? You know a few things about the job based on the job posting and nothing about the other benefits (health insurance, vacation, retirement, ???). If you are bored you can ask them to make information on their employee benefits available to you so you can give an educated number (fat chance), but it is most likely that they will disappoint you with their salary expectations.
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Sep 1, 2016 20:09
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Obvious answer is that salary is dependent on role and responsibilities and something like you'd love to discuss the role in more detail, but what Mickey said is likely correct.
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Sep 2, 2016 19:23
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A tactic that has served me well is to overshoot and negotiate down. I just switched jobs where I said I wanted my dream salary for the job +10% right from the get-go and stuck to it. In the end, I signed for dream salary +1% which is still fan-ducking-tastic since I really want the job.
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Sep 2, 2016 20:35
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Is it kosher for me to ask "what would it take for me to get a promotion after this year" during an annual review of some sort? I am friendly with my manager and he tries to fight for us when possible, but it would be nice to get a list of [required achievements to get a promotion to Senior Engineer] or whatever. Unfortunately my job description is too fluid to lock down too many of these goals perfectly.
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Sep 12, 2016 23:41
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Blinky2099 posted:Is it kosher for me to ask "what would it take for me to get a promotion after this year" during an annual review of some sort? I am friendly with my manager and he tries to fight for us when possible, but it would be nice to get a list of [required achievements to get a promotion to Senior Engineer] or whatever.
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Sep 12, 2016 23:47
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Yeah I ask that at every review. How else would you know how to get promoted?
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Sep 12, 2016 23:55
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Anybody familiar with federal contracting and key personnel/wraparound rates on contracts? I just got "promoted" as such a "key" person on our company's contract and while it should come with a raise since my company is now charging more for me, I'm not sure how to play it.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:20
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Deadite posted:Yeah I ask that at every review. How else would you know how to get promoted? This is what I do. I usually find the answers underwhelming and non-committal, even when I really target specific actionable feedback. If my tactic of doing a good job combined with vague innuendo about leaving for other intracompany opportunities actually works I'll post up. Seamonster posted:Anybody familiar with federal contracting and key personnel/wraparound rates on contracts? It seems as simple as: New/more responsibilities + a business case to be made= demand a raise. In the defense world, your charge to the government rate isn't that closely tied to your actual costs or salary because things like IT and other money burners are wound up in the rate. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 23:45
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CarForumPoster posted:vague innuendo about leaving for other intracompany opportunities actually works I'll post up. This almost certainly won't work. If you don't have the courage to actually come right out and say you'll leave for a better opportunity in the same company, why should I believe you'll actually have the courage to go ahead and do it?
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Sep 14, 2016 13:46
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:This almost certainly won't work. There's a lot of movement in my company right now, I think everyone knows if someone offers me a level higher technical position I am gone. There's no question of my courageousness.
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Sep 15, 2016 00:30
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CarForumPoster posted:There's a lot of movement in my company right now, I think everyone knows if someone offers me a level higher technical position I am gone. There's no question of my courageousness. Great, your negotiating position is strong and you have good alternative opportunities. And since you are so courageous, you can confidently go in and say that you expect to receive a promotion plan, with Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Realistic and Timely goals. You will execute on that plan and you will get promoted, or you will make an internal move to another team. No need for vague innuendo. Using vague innuendo is the employee equivalent bad communication to the vague, bad communication about what you need to do to get promoted you are receiving from your manager.
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Sep 15, 2016 15:14
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I have a unique situation. I got laid off a month ago but I got a good severance package and I've been reaching out to various contacts that I have to see if anybody has a job and applying to other jobs. I'm in the middle of interviewing for a full-time position with another company but at the same time I just got offered a contract position from a former coworker she needs filled ASAP and is paying me really good money. Obviously I will take the full-time job with benefits over the contract job but that's not a guarantee yet. How should I go about trying to push the other company into making a decision so that I know whether I need to take this contract job or not? It's been two interviews and both of them I've nailed I feel but I don't want to pass up this opportunity to at least have a job and make some money, especially if I don't get an offer from the other company.
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Sep 19, 2016 18:14
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I've seen my own company speed up an offer package because a highly desirable candidate let their recruiter know there is another offer on the table and they need to decide within a short time period. Thats when someone is already at the end of the process, maybe they would speed up the interviews too, IDK I'm not involved enough. I cannot say if its only something done for the unicorns or if other firms behave the same, because my sample size is too small.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:55
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If I'm being recruited by a company but have no strong desire to go (love my job, great non comp stuff like work/life balance, the company recruiting me has a reputation for the opposite), what's the best way for me to maximize the offer? I've told them outright that I'm very happy with my job and that any offer would have to be extremely compelling. I have a rough sense of what it would take me to move - a 40-50% comp increase, factoring for benefits, stock, etc. Should I throw that out early on? I guess that still just sets the floor and I should let them start by throwing out a number.
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Sep 27, 2016 21:01
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Zauper posted:If I'm being recruited by a company but have no strong desire to go (love my job, great non comp stuff like work/life balance, the company recruiting me has a reputation for the opposite), what's the best way for me to maximize the offer? Just let them make the first move. You've already made clear that you're not going to take the job unless it's an insanley good offer. Let them show you what they think you're worth for them. If it's poo poo just laugh and tell them they're not even close. The next offer will show if they're serious or not. You seem to have the perfect batna so make use of that.
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Sep 27, 2016 21:35
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Think long and hard about you would really need be happy. If I really didn't want to move to a company because I loved my current job and the new company looked lovely, I'd personally need a lot more than a 50% increase to consider it.
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Sep 27, 2016 21:46
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"First year" engineer but position roughly of a third or fourth year. 2.7% raise and a ~8.2% effective raise in equity ([new equity awarded] / [base salary + base signing equity]) with distributions every 3 months starting immediately. 10.9% total raise, minus whatever volatility/opportunity costs of having that 8.2% in equity rather than cash. is this OK or kinda good or really good for engineering? also is this the correct way to look at it? obviously cash is worth more than equity so if you prefer, assuming 30% drop in equity value, 2.7+5.7 = 8.4% ~asking for a friend~
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Sep 27, 2016 23:31
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Blinky2099 posted:"First year" engineer but position roughly of a third or fourth year. 2.7% raise and a ~8.2% effective raise in equity ([new equity awarded] / [base salary + base signing equity]) with distributions every 3 months starting immediately. 10.9% total raise, minus whatever volatility/opportunity costs of having that 8.2% in equity rather than cash. I'm a few years out of college and have gotten good performance reviews and have a few friends that I discuss salary things with openly. None of them have gotten a 10% raise without moving companies with one exception and that was in tech and was an equity bonus. Seems like a very good raise to me.
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Sep 28, 2016 01:19
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CarForumPoster posted:with one exception and that was in tech and was an equity bonus
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Sep 28, 2016 02:12
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Blinky2099 posted:ok yea I fall into this category. i know there are other negatives to it (future raises wont be a % of the equity so no compounding gains, etc.) but for year 2 seems good. thanks Correct. Just curious, is this a publicly traded company? Blue chip stock? These are the huge differentiators. If the stock is Apple/Google/Tesla/Amazon/etc then great....if it is Yahoo or something "pre-IPO"...well significant risk is involved there. 2.7% raise alone with a COLA this year of 0% isn't horrible (and isn't good, either) Also, Bay area/Manhattan tend to have wonky salaries in general because of the hilarious cost of living.
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Sep 28, 2016 03:12
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CarForumPoster posted:Correct. Just curious, is this a publicly traded company? Blue chip stock? These are the huge differentiators. If the stock is Apple/Google/Tesla/Amazon/etc then great....if it is Yahoo or something "pre-IPO"...well significant risk is involved there. The real comparison should be "go get an offer from another company since youre so young and you can probably get a 20-30% raise" but I'm not super interested in moving yet
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Sep 28, 2016 03:25
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