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Luigi Thirty posted:I mean for the Werdum fight it's a valid complaint Lmao go on
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Sep 15, 2016 19:02
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All sports suck when you know nothing about them and arent invested in them imo, try watching an NFL game with someone who doesnt know the rules of football and doesnt care about it and see how long it holds their attention. The key is to not force your friends to watch fighting if they dont like fighting, or be lucky enough to have friends that will humor you and have a good time when you invite them over for a PPV instead of being like "this is booorrrinnng" like a 5 year old the whole time
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Sep 15, 2016 19:55
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Yeah its really that simple. you can't trick your friends/acquaintences/associates into liking fighting if there's no initial spark of interest to build upon, everything isn't for everybody and it'll always be that way. soccer's meteoric, dynamic, athletic & enduring popularity in North America is proof of this
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Sep 15, 2016 20:14
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203 was boring though until the main event
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Sep 15, 2016 21:27
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Fabricio werdum has had some of the shittiest, most pathetic fights of all times and just because he's diving for ankles against someone you hate instead of someone you like/don't care about doesn't suddenly make his fights exciting
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Sep 15, 2016 21:28
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david carmichael posted:Fabricio werdum has had some of the shittiest, most pathetic fights of all times and just because he's diving for ankles against someone you hate instead of someone you like/don't care about doesn't suddenly make his fights exciting The last two rounds were very bad, but the first round owned so hard I am still not entirely sure I think the fight sucked. It probably did though.
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Sep 15, 2016 21:53
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Luigi Thirty posted:I mean for the Werdum fight it's a valid complaint
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Sep 15, 2016 22:06
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david carmichael posted:Fabricio werdum has had some of the shittiest, most pathetic fights of all times and just because he's diving for ankles against someone you hate instead of someone you like/don't care about doesn't suddenly make his fights exciting The fight had its moments especially by heavyweight standards but i agree
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Sep 15, 2016 22:48
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i thought the whole first round and some if not all of the 2nd was cool. so i dont mind if he coasts a bit and tries to pull guard a lot. conor might say werdum is merely being efficient with his energy :-D
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Sep 15, 2016 22:56
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that was the fight were a dude was temporarily blind right? And the 'time out'?
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Sep 15, 2016 23:08
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manyak posted:The fight had its moments especially by heavyweight standards but i agree For me I think it seemed to suck especially because it really doesn't feel like that longago that they had nearly the same fight, except this time werdum landed that double drag kick at the start
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Sep 15, 2016 23:14
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Herr Tog posted:that was the fight were a dude was temporarily blind right? And the 'time out'? That was the timeout, the temporary blindness was the second fight I think
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Sep 15, 2016 23:39
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Werdum is bad, yes we should all remember this.
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Sep 15, 2016 23:52
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IcePhoenix posted:That was the timeout, the temporary blindness was the second fight I think Then I can see how uninitiated folks found it boring after that kick.
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Sep 16, 2016 00:03
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Here ya go, in case any of you wrestlehutters were still curious about the other punchmen you saw last weekend. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3782863&pagenumber=12#post464313680
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Sep 16, 2016 04:22
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Before this thread dies can any of the wrestlefans explain fans explain how CM Punk made it to the wwe in the first place? It's my understanding that vince mcmahon has a fetish for bodybuilders over 6'4" and unlike other sports there are no accolades like a heisman trophy that basically demand that you be taken seriously on a national level. Obviously vince has poached talent from japan and mexico that has proven to be a draw but was (or is) ring of honor on that level? Was CM Punk on television at all before the wwe?
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Sep 18, 2016 11:47
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Street Horrrsing posted:Before this thread dies can any of the wrestlefans explain fans explain how CM Punk made it to the wwe in the first place? It's my understanding that vince mcmahon has a fetish for bodybuilders over 6'4" and unlike other sports there are no accolades like a heisman trophy that basically demand that you be taken seriously on a national level. Obviously vince has poached talent from japan and mexico that has proven to be a draw but was (or is) ring of honor on that level? Was CM Punk on television at all before the wwe? From 2003 to when he signed in 2005ish, Punk was the most popular American indy wrestler, rivaled only by Samoa Joe. Punk was hired for Ohio Valley Wrestling, at the time a WWE feeder system and also at the time run by Paul Heyman. An OVW signing was no guarantee of getting on WWE TV. Heyman actually paid attention to the indies and liked Punk, but Heyman infamously butts heads with the WWE writing team (and is a huge carny even by wrestling standards). However, Punk's arrival in OVW coincided with WWE doing a reboot of ECW in 2005. This was nothing like actual ECW; WWE positioned it as a C show for underdeveloped wrestlers and older talent that were not going to be featured attractions elsewhere. They also gave Heyman creative control (at first, until he booked December to Dismember, an awful PPV). So Punk was in. Punk jobbed for pretty much everybody they could job him to. But eventually he was pushed near the top of the ECW cards as others quit or demonstrated less talent. Ultimately, almost everyone else that WWE tried to develop via ECW was a failure, for a variety of reasons. Punk eventually moved to Smackdown, which is more important, but also a taped show that Vince never watched. Not to give you a year by year account, but everywhere Punk ended up in the WWE system, he floated to the top of a bunch of bullshit politics, was better at wrestling than almost everybody else, and got a few lucky breaks.
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Sep 18, 2016 12:26
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Street Horrrsing posted:Before this thread dies can any of the wrestlefans explain fans explain how CM Punk made it to the wwe in the first place? It's my understanding that vince mcmahon has a fetish for bodybuilders over 6'4" and unlike other sports there are no accolades like a heisman trophy that basically demand that you be taken seriously on a national level. Obviously vince has poached talent from japan and mexico that has proven to be a draw but was (or is) ring of honor on that level? Was CM Punk on television at all before the wwe? Before moving to WWE, CM Punk was a major player on the United States independent promotion scene and was one of the first people to get known for being really good. Mostly for his promos and feud work with WWE-banned veterans such as Raven and other indy superstars such as Samoa Joe in IWA Mid South and Ring Of Honour. In 2005 he was recruited by Paul Heyman, Brock Lesnar's manager and at the time they guy in charge of WWE developmental program to a contract working in the developmental federation OVW. After finishing up in Ring Of Honor with a program that was known as "The Summer of Punk" where the story was he would take the ROH title to WWE with him if no-one could beat him for it first. His initial time in WWE was not a fun one, with noted veterans (and heir apparent to the company) Triple H and Shawn Michaels dismissing him during a tryout as someone who didn't know how to work, Paul Heyman was his only supporter in the company with many people above him pressuring Paul into releasing him from the contract and not calling him up to either RAW or Smackdown, the two major brands. Heyman stuck by his word that Punk was a star in the making and kept him in OVW until a third brand, a revived ECW, was announced in 2006 with Paul Heyman as it's head. Paul quickly promoted Punk from OVW to ECW and while the rest of ECW fell apart due to creative differences between Vince Macmahon and Paul Heyman, Punk would remain a popular mainstay on the show before being switched to RAW.
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Sep 18, 2016 12:31
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In my mind there was nobody in WWE who benefitted more from his hometown than CM Punk. When he teamed up with DX and the Hardys at Survivor Series 2006 in Philly the crowd cared about him way more than anybody else and I would bet that Vince took notice even if it didn't mean much at the time other than definitely keeping a job. Of course that was long after most of his breaks getting in
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Sep 18, 2016 13:09
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Also Punk's run in Smackdown against Jeff Hardy was one of the most interesting and intriguing storylines they did and helped lift him to a higher level. Thanks to Jeff Hardy's major issues at the time and his decision not to re-sign with WWE despite being arguably their hottest wrestler at the time, a major storyline ended with the bad guy Punk not only winning but (in storyline) running the good guy out of town forever. That did a lot to make him seem like a big deal even if he would continue to spin his wheels thanks to WWE constantly changing their mind on what they wanted to do/where they wanted to go with him, up until his "pipe-bomb" promo where they did a storyline about him winning the top title from their top star and then leaving the company.
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Sep 18, 2016 13:09
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Friend of mine linked me this and I wish this guy had taken the time to steal decent lyrics from this thread instead of the crap he came up with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0PmWJy0jX4
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Sep 18, 2016 13:43
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Jerusalem posted:Also Punk's run in Smackdown against Jeff Hardy was one of the most interesting and intriguing storylines they did and helped lift him to a higher level. Thanks to Jeff Hardy's major issues at the time and his decision not to re-sign with WWE despite being arguably their hottest wrestler at the time, a major storyline ended with the bad guy Punk not only winning but (in storyline) running the good guy out of town forever. I started watching rassling again right at the end of that feud. When Punk first came out I was like "who is this skinny loser? What's his gimmick? CM Punk? What kind of a wrestler name is that?" Then when this happened  After that he was my favorite wrestleman until he stole my woman AJ Lee 
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Sep 18, 2016 14:40
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Wait, didn't Jeff get fired?
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Sep 18, 2016 15:23
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ICHIBAHN posted:Wait, didn't Jeff get fired? No his contract expired and he wanted some time off. The WWE expected him to sign a new one and come back around wrestlemania the next year, but then the whole meth arrest happened and they steered clear. TNA then came in.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:26
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Street Horrrsing posted:Before this thread dies can any of the wrestlefans explain fans explain how CM Punk made it to the wwe in the first place? It's my understanding that vince mcmahon has a fetish for bodybuilders over 6'4" and unlike other sports there are no accolades like a heisman trophy that basically demand that you be taken seriously on a national level. Obviously vince has poached talent from japan and mexico that has proven to be a draw but was (or is) ring of honor on that level? Was CM Punk on television at all before the wwe? It's not quite that black and white - certainly in the modern era it's not difficult to get a job in wrestling as a smaller guy, particularly as the predominant style has moved towards people working high-speed technical matches, and because weekly television meaning that being interesting with a microphone (which is where CM Punk is a Viking) is going to drive more sustained interest in you than what would have worked in the 70s and 80s, which was a bunch of people coming out because they heard that 6'10" Hulk Hogan was going to fight 7'4" Andre the Giant. That said, Vince McMahon definitely has a concept in his head of what a World Champion looks like, and the style of wrestling that WWE has always done, back to the 60s, is about a company built around the one big hero who everybody loves and always comes out on top in the end (and in contrast to a lot of the Southern styles where you have a guy like Ric Flair on top 90% of the time and you build up to the point where someone finally beats him). So, the company is built around that guy, and if Vince McMahon is forever seeking a 6'4" bodybuilder to fill that role. Hogan is famous example, when he was winding down they went through several botched attempts to fill his boots - Ultimate Warrior, Sid, Lex Luger (who completely faceplanted and never really recovered), and McMahon only ever really went with Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and ultimately, Steve Austin, because they were forced into a corner with the older stars being poached by WCW. Very early in John Cena's career, it was obvious that he'd been given the golden ticket - but to a certain extent the fanbase for wrestling has changed and the old model doesn't work any more, and WWE for fifteen years basically just pretended that John Cena was Hogan and that he wasn't being booed on every major show. And then they picked Roman Reigns. And he's been booed thunderously out of every building in the country for two full years, and bless them, they're still trying. When Punk is complaining about something, it's about that. He can be the best at wrestling, he can be the best at talking, he can sell the most merchandise, and they'll give him a world title belt, and they'll give him screen time, but at the end of the day the guy who'll be in the main event of Wrestlemania if WWE can in any way engineer it is the guy who's 6'4" with the comic book build, even though they have to pretty much beg the fans not to throw trash at them. Because Vince McMahon. Vince McMahon never changes.
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Sep 18, 2016 17:16
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LobsterMobster posted:How many horsewomen would it take to beat Punk? 0 because he is a married man now smdh that you would insinuate he would be a philanderer
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Sep 18, 2016 17:31
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Jerusalem posted:Also Punk's run in Smackdown against Jeff Hardy was one of the most interesting and intriguing storylines they did and helped lift him to a higher level. Thanks to Jeff Hardy's major issues at the time and his decision not to re-sign with WWE despite being arguably their hottest wrestler at the time, a major storyline ended with the bad guy Punk not only winning but (in storyline) running the good guy out of town forever. That did a lot to make him seem like a big deal even if he would continue to spin his wheels thanks to WWE constantly changing their mind on what they wanted to do/where they wanted to go with him, up until his "pipe-bomb" promo where they did a storyline about him winning the top title from their top star and then leaving the company. Cavauro posted:In my mind there was nobody in WWE who benefitted more from his hometown than CM Punk. When he teamed up with DX and the Hardys at Survivor Series 2006 in Philly the crowd cared about him way more than anybody else and I would bet that Vince took notice even if it didn't mean much at the time other than definitely keeping a job. Of course that was long after most of his breaks getting in or do you just mean hometown because he was in the indies a lot and worked philly a ton?
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Sep 18, 2016 20:09
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cams posted:cm punk's run with the straight edge society is imo the best heel act the wwe has had since i don't even know. It's too bad the SES pretty much got fed to the Big Show.
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Sep 18, 2016 20:26
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cams posted:cm punk's run with the straight edge society is imo the best heel act the wwe has had since i don't even know. I could make up something about 'indie hometowns' but nah I completely brainfarted even though the Chicago flag is his tights. Disregard the post!!!!
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Sep 18, 2016 20:45
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CM Punk was amazing and WWE are terrible for loving up after his feud with Jeff Hardy.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:14
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The major thing is that Punk became a big name in WWE by default due to injuries and in spite of by virtue of being good.
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Sep 18, 2016 22:32
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Just a note here to say that pro wrestling journalist and powerful roidman Dave Meltzer is now giving estimates for 203 PPV buys in the 425,000-475,000 range, which is 125,000-200,000 up on what you'd expect from a card with a similar main but without a 37-year-old white belt on it. The key thing you should take away from this is that CM Punk: Dream Follower is never going to go away and if Dana doesn't find something for him to do, will end up fighting literal hobos in Bellator main events for more money per fight than Mighty Mouse or Joanna Champion.
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Sep 20, 2016 17:54
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Just a note here to say that pro wrestling journalist and powerful roidman Dave Meltzer is now giving estimates for 203 PPV buys in the 425,000-475,000 range, which is 125,000-200,000 up on what you'd expect from a card with a similar main but without a 37-year-old white belt on it. I don't think that's how it works, otherwise James Toney would have instantly worked through his IRS issues getting tapped by old fat guys on like 20 consecutive ufc cards
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Sep 20, 2016 17:57
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Bluedeanie posted:I don't think that's how it works, otherwise James Toney would have instantly worked through his IRS issues getting tapped by old fat guys on like 20 consecutive ufc cards you say this like if James Toney had wanted to continue fighting MMA, we wouldn't have seen Toney vs Kimbo: The Fight America Wanted on an actual Bellator show
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Sep 20, 2016 18:08
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People have seen CM Punk get his rear end whooped and they've seen him follow through on the promise many thought he never would. The mystique is largely gone and there were zero signs that any fight he could take in the UFC would result in him winning. I don't think he'd pull any particularly great numbers on a second fight in comparison to the first. If he'd won, he'd maybe pull figures close to a million but he didn't so that's fantasy booking level conjecture.
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Sep 20, 2016 18:54
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Josuke Higashikata posted:If he'd won, he'd maybe pull figures close to a million but he didn't so that's fantasy booking level conjecture. Come on.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:17
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FullLeatherJacket posted:you say this like if James Toney had wanted to continue fighting MMA, we wouldn't have seen Toney vs Kimbo: The Fight America Wanted on an actual Bellator show Probably, but my point that others gave gone on to make was those shows wouldn't have done extraordinarily well, seeing as the "draw" in question got owned and did not look good or raise any questions as to how well they'd do.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:21
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You're all overestimating how much wins and losses matter to an audience of pro wrestling fans.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:27
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BGrifter posted:You're all overestimating how much wins and losses matter to an audience of pro wrestling fans. Pro wrestling fans aggressively shat all over a very good card in UFC 203 as "boring" or whatever. Unless Providence, R.I.'s CES MMA show did way better than I recall thanks to Batista, they are not going to tune in to Bellator or Bubba Sparxxx's Florida Fight League and Barbecue Cook-off to see CM Punk struggle with some 50 year old 0-1 guy. Bluedeanie fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 19:39
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Bluedeanie posted:Probably, but my point that others gave gone on to make was those shows wouldn't have done extraordinarily well, seeing as the "draw" in question got owned and did not look good or raise any questions as to how well they'd do. I should clarify here that my suggestion here isn't that CM Punk will draw 100,000+ PPV buys forever onwards and be the face of MMA, but rather that a guy who ever drew 100,000+ buys is enough to make MMA promoters prick up their ears The comparison to Kimbo is that Kimbo never actually demonstrated an ability to sell a ticket to anything at all and was still able to get a co-main fighting a scrub idiot Bellator found on the internet, even years after being demonstrated as an incompetent trashman
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Sep 20, 2016 20:11
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