Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
Which Thread Title shall we name this new thread?
This poll is closed.
Independence Day 2: Resturgeonce 44 21.36%
ScotPol - Unclustering this gently caress 19 9.22%
Trainspotting 2: Independence is my heroin 9 4.37%
Indyref II: Boris hosed a Dead Country 14 6.80%
ScotPol: Wings over Bullshit 8 3.88%
Independence 2: Cameron Lied, UK Died 24 11.65%
Scotpol IV: I Vow To Flee My Country 14 6.80%
ScotPol - A twice in a generation thread 17 8.25%
ScotPol - Where Everything's hosed Up and the Referendums Don't Matter 15 7.28%
ScotPol Thread: Dependence Referendum Incoming 2 0.97%
Indyref II: The Scottish Insturgeoncy 10 4.85%
ScotPol Thread: Act of European Union 5 2.43%
ScotPol - Like Game of Thrones only we wish we would all die 25 12.14%
Total: 206 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Post
  • Reply
Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

You missed the P&J again. They're reporting on how the SNP are introducing Council tax raises that disproportionately hit the North East to fund projects in other areas of Scotland. They don't appear to have noticed that the oil industry has collapsed.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010

loves Fat Philippe
It's a good time to leave Aiberdeen

Coohoolin
Aug 5, 2012

Oor Coohoolie.

Cerv posted:

do you really believe that there was no reason?

if this was his first warning from Twitter he doesn't seem to be taking it on board; instead crowing to his followers. which makes me think a permanent ban is inevitable. like Milo Yiannopolous got eventually

I mean he wasn't given a reason by Twitter.

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

Coohoolin posted:

I mean he wasn't given a reason by Twitter.

That's entirely normal. He broke their Terms of Service and was therefore suspended. His reinstatement will have followed him deleting the tweet or tweets that prompted the upheld complaint.

Niric
Jul 23, 2008

Jedit posted:

You missed the P&J again. They're reporting on how the SNP are introducing Council tax raises that disproportionately hit the North East to fund projects in other areas of Scotland. They don't appear to have noticed that the oil industry has collapsed.

Blame the BBC! They're missing the courier as well, though the P&J seems as odd omission; a few years ago it had a claim on being Scotland's most read daily broadsheet, though I'm not sure if that still holds.

Pissflaps posted:

I thought there'd be a jump for Yes support in the polls but it just hasn't happened.

I can't see another referendum happening any time soon.

I don't see another referendum happening soon either, but it just seems strange there's not been much of a shift in the polls, even a temporary/soft one that might easily disappear in the actual polling booth. Again, anecdotal, but support for the EU seems very strong among middle class metropolitan types (across all age ranges in my albeit limited experience), who were, excluding pensioners, roughly evenly split on independence 2014 as I recall (possibly broke more for No, but if anyone has the figures that'd be interesting to see).

Coohoolin
Aug 5, 2012

Oor Coohoolie.
https://twitter.com/alexaitch/status/775699697084276736

mehall
Aug 27, 2010


Regarding the P&J story:

The tax increase is to council tax at Band E or higher (band E is pretty loving high, you gotta have a nice house for that poo poo), and the extra charges are being collected at a national level to be used for schools that have the highest number of free school meals.

I know we like to bitch and moan about the SNP, but this actually seems like a reasonable, and you could say progressive, move.

Now granted, I wish this was applied to the south east of England instead, and redistributed across the whole of the UK, but I take what I get.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

mehall posted:

Regarding the P&J story:

The tax increase is to council tax at Band E or higher (band E is pretty loving high, you gotta have a nice house for that poo poo).

Yeah, let's look at an example of a really nice house in Band E:



There are four flats in that block. The first floor corner flat above the office is Band E.

mehall
Aug 27, 2010


Jedit posted:

Yeah, let's look at an example of a really nice house in Band E:



There are four flats in that block. The first floor corner flat above the office is Band E.

Jeez. They really need to update the evaluations.

I have a 4-in-a-block 2 bed flat, granted not in the nicest area, and I barely push a D.

(I thought i was C, so I take it back about having to be real nice houses, but the point stands.)
(council tax is still regressive and poo poo, regardless of whats done to try and make it better.)

jre
Sep 2, 2011

To the cloud ?



Jedit posted:

Yeah, let's look at an example of a really nice house in Band E:



There are four flats in that block. The first floor corner flat above the office is Band E.

What's the rent / valuation of the flat ?

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

jre posted:

What's the rent / valuation of the flat ?

I don't know, I did a street name search on the City Council website. The point is that Aberdeen will be disproportionately hit by a council tax rise because the oil economy drove up our rents and valuations before the freeze. What would be a band D or even C in Glasgow or Edinburgh is a band E here.

Zalakwe
Jun 4, 2007
Likes Cake, Hates Hamsters



mehall posted:

Jeez. They really need to update the evaluations.

Council tax was implemented in a huge rush. Many of these were made by people driving around the streets then just subjectively picking a band as they went past.

Council tax needs to die, or at least a serious overhaul. Certain Governments need to stop promising to do it and actually do it.

Those that own their own homes and benefitted hugely from increase values vote though, so...

Coohoolin
Aug 5, 2012

Oor Coohoolie.
That's Great Western Road, you're heading into the west end there, which is by far the wealthiest part of town.



See the big chunk of blue in the southwest part of the city? It's the richest part of town and just picking a picture of a small looking flat is disingenuous.

Niric
Jul 23, 2008

Coohoolin posted:

That's Great Western Road, you're heading into the west end there, which is by far the wealthiest part of town.



See the big chunk of blue in the southwest part of the city? It's the richest part of town and just picking a picture of a small looking flat is disingenuous.

You're making a good point, but just a quick note on using SIMD mapping (not aimed at you especially but in general, since it's the kind of thing that easily gets misinterpreted): it doesn't take income into account, just raw numbers receiving JSA, universal credit etc (along with other none income indicators). While obviously there's bound to be a strong correlation between blue areas and wealth, it's not a map OF wealth - it shows (quantitative) deprivation, not the inverse, if that makes sense

Niric
Jul 23, 2008

Scotland's papers: UK's Brexit 'lost decade' and Old Firm 'hogwash'


quote:

Nicola Sturgeon has suggested thatindependence may offer an alternative to a "lost decade" of "uncertainty and turmoil" facing the UK following Brexit, reports The Herald.

The Scotsman also quotes the first minister, who said the reality of Brexitmeant Scots should be ready to consider independence to avoid this "lost decade".

The National reports on Ms Sturgeon's warning that damage to the "economy and other areas of our society and lives [from quitting Europe] would be deep and severe."

The first minister painted the "dire scenario" to MSPs, says The Times of Scotland, which also quotes her warning that it could take years to establish a new working relationships between the UK and the EU following Brexit.

The Scottish Daily Mail claims that the BBC's plans to replace its flagship six o'clock news programme with a Scottish bulletin are "dead in the water" after being rejected by UK ministers.

Scottish football chiefs have been "blasted" by police unions and politicians, writes the Scottish Daily Express, after confirming the next Old Firm match will be played on Hogmanay. [N.B. this doesn't seem to match the express's front page]

On the same story, The Scottish Sun says furious frontline "bobbies" have accused top brass of exposing them to a "frenzy of booze-fuelled mayhem" ahead of the planned game between Celtic and Rangers.

The Daily Star of Scotland also leads with the story and says the police union and politicians have labelled the SPFL's decision to stage the match at Ibrox on 31 December as "unbelievable".

The Daily Record takes up the cause of a mother, who has been diagnosed with breast cancer. Anne Maclean-Chan from Moray has made a "heartbreaking plea" to the first minister to be given the expensive drugs she needs to stay alive so she can have more time with her young sons.

Hundreds of passengers had their travel plans thrown into chaos last night after a hole was spotted on Aberdeen Airport's only runway, according to the Press and Journal.


It's a relatively minor thing, but today's national pretty succinctly demonstrates why it's an awful newspaper. Look at the headline; there's no quote marks, no "Sturgeon says," it simply takes as a given that any SNP statement is objective truth, that this is a statement of fact about the world a decade from now, the transcendental signified of Brexit - what it "really means."

mediadave
Sep 8, 2011
Not sure how you quote twitter, but just leaving this here:

https://twitter.com/IpsosMORIScot/status/776334085987921920

quote:

Ruth Davidson now has highest satisfaction ratings of any party leader

Theresa May +16 satisfaction
Nicola Sturgeon +14 satisfaction
Ruth Davidson +17 satisfaction
Jeremy Corbyn -26 satisfaction




EDIT: Apparently you just paste the link.

hyper from Pixie Sticks
Sep 28, 2004

It's not the best question, asking how satisfied people are with the person's performance as leader of their party.

I'm not a Tory, but I'm very happy with Ruth Davidson's leadership of the party, as she continually advocates policy positions that show the electorate that the Conservatives are still a shower of cunts.

I doubt the poll had room to explain that though.

jre
Sep 2, 2011

To the cloud ?



Jedit posted:

I don't know, I did a street name search on the City Council website. The point is that Aberdeen will be disproportionately hit by a council tax rise because the oil economy drove up our rents and valuations before the freeze. What would be a band D or even C in Glasgow or Edinburgh is a band E here.

Is it not reasonable for people who can afford to pay £700-800 a month in a rent for a city center flat to contribute to the most deprived areas of Scotland ?

Cerv
Sep 14, 2004

This is a silly post with little news value.

Shocked that people stop supporting redistribution of wealth as soon as it hits their pocket


The Fraser of Allander institute report makes grim reading for the Scottish government.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/14/independent-scotland-financial-future-westminster-holyrood-government
Any thoughts on how they'll react? Is a u-turn on the rejection of raising the top rate of income tax on the cards yet?

Cerv fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Sep 15, 2016

Extreme0
Feb 28, 2013

I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!


Just going to say gently caress morrision utility group, BT openreach and Plusnet for my ongoing problem of not having functioning broadband for 3 weeks which is still ongoing.

Cerv posted:

Shocked that people stop supporting redistribution of wealth as soon as it hits their pocket

It's why they prefer to donate money instead of paying a daily bigger tax. They can come off feeling good when they have their little sympathy drive and give money to the folks worse off when they feel like it.

mediadave
Sep 8, 2011
https://twitter.com/markdiffley1/status/776348699991609345

Hmm, interesting. So according to (this) poll, 15% have changed their mind on independence after the brexit vote. I thought that would have been enough to have made more of an impact on the polls - but it turns out that only 55% changed from no to yes. 45% of those that changed their mind went from yes to no.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

jre posted:

Is it not reasonable for people who can afford to pay £700-800 a month in a rent for a city center flat to contribute to the most deprived areas of Scotland ?

Ahahahahahahahaha, look at this person who thinks rents are affordable.

mehall
Aug 27, 2010


Extreme0 posted:

Just going to say gently caress morrision utility group, BT openreach and Plusnet for my ongoing problem of not having functioning broadband for 3 weeks which is still ongoing.


It's why they prefer to donate money instead of paying a daily bigger tax. They can come off feeling good when they have their little sympathy drive and give money to the folks worse off when they feel like it.

It's openreach's fault.

I don't care what the fix ends up being, it's openreach's fault.
Open reach are poo poo.
Their engineers do a half-arsed job.
They don't have decent equipment.

Open reach are poo poo.

The Supreme Court
Feb 25, 2010

Pirate World: Nearly done!
Some of my friends used to have a wall of artwork done solely while on the phone to BT. It was extensive and detailed.

jre
Sep 2, 2011

To the cloud ?



Jedit posted:

Ahahahahahahahaha, look at this person who thinks rents are affordable.

That's not an answer, is it wrong to ask people earning considerably above the national average to pay more to help people in a deprived area ?

Coohoolin
Aug 5, 2012

Oor Coohoolie.

jre posted:

That's not an answer, is it wrong to ask people earning considerably above the national average to pay more to help people in a deprived area ?

It is if the SNP do it, since as we know, everything they do is a secret plot to gain power.

By winning elections.

By doing things the electorate likes.

jre
Sep 2, 2011

To the cloud ?



Coohoolin posted:

It is if the SNP do it, since as we know, everything they do is a secret plot to gain power.

By claiming they are going to abolish council tax for the best part of decade , but actually only freezing it leading to the near collapse of many councils


Fixed the second bit

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

jre posted:

That's not an answer, is it wrong to ask people earning considerably above the national average to pay more to help people in a deprived area ?

Why do you assume they're earning considerably above the national average wage? Aberdeen rents are high for everyone, not just the oil people. Landlords can't charge less without bankrupting themselves and they can't sell up now without taking a big loss, but they can sure as poo poo keep charging high rents to the people who have to rent from them.

So far as raising the money for deprived areas goes, I'd rather it were done by increasing income tax or better yet, corporation tax.

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

Corgis love bread. And Puro


The biggest failure of the last 9 years of SNP government is undoubtedly their miserable failure at replacing the terrible council tax with a more progressive system of local taxation.

At the very least there needs to be a revaluation because it's been 25 years. Might actually start to deflate the insanity of the housing bubble, though god forbid a politician actually comes out and does anything that might lower house prices. But yes, a local income tax would be a much fairer system.

Lord of the Llamas
Jul 9, 2002

EULER'VE TO SEE IT VENN SOMEONE CALLS IT THE WRONG THING AND PROVOKES MY WRATH

Extreme0 posted:

Just going to say gently caress morrision utility group, BT openreach and Plusnet for my ongoing problem of not having functioning broadband for 3 weeks which is still ongoing.

You should probably get someone who works at BT to escalate your complaint.

Niric
Jul 23, 2008

forkboy84 posted:

The biggest failure of the last 9 years of SNP government is undoubtedly their miserable failure at replacing the terrible council tax with a more progressive system of local taxation.

At the very least there needs to be a revaluation because it's been 25 years. Might actually start to deflate the insanity of the housing bubble, though god forbid a politician actually comes out and does anything that might lower house prices. But yes, a local income tax would be a much fairer system.

This is letting the SNP off far too lightly, and misses the key problem. The issue isn't just that they've failed to reform council tax, it's that they've failed reform it while systematically cutting local government funding far in excess changes to holyrood's budget. Its what makes me scoff - and get angry - when people like coohoolin say with a straight face that the SNP have a good record on social justice, it's what makes me sceptical of any SNP claims that they're going to help the poorest. I don't suppose coohoolin has ever had to rely on social work, or the housing office, or community care, or schools, or community addiction teams, or any number of charities who target deprivation. He may not even have been to any libraries or galleries or museums. He probably hasn't ever wondered who pays for local economic regeneration, where projects that aren't billion pound bridges get their money. But he's probably used roads, probably had his bins taken out, probably recycled something.

All of these, and more, are suffering, have suffered and will continue to suffer (and cease) due to loss of local government funding - funding which has been cut more and more quickly than the Scottish government's funding. It's been a deliberate choice by the SNP to starve local government, and it's the most deprived who lose out the most.

Niric fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Sep 16, 2016

jre
Sep 2, 2011

To the cloud ?



Jedit posted:

Why do you assume they're earning considerably above the national average wage? Aberdeen rents are high for everyone, not just the oil people. Landlords can't charge less without bankrupting themselves and they can't sell up now without taking a big loss, but they can sure as poo poo keep charging high rents to the people who have to rent from them.

So far as raising the money for deprived areas goes, I'd rather it were done by increasing income tax or better yet, corporation tax.

Because they are paying 700-800 pounds a month for a one bedroom. People who aren't earning well above the national average just can't pay that. Most folk I know in Aberdeen who aren't on good money live on the outskirts of the city or in Stonehaven.

Niric
Jul 23, 2008

Oh, hey, look at this story from today, and note the absence of the words "Scottish" "Government" "cuts" - the SNP, like the Tories, realise that local government (which still has a strong Labour influence) takes the blame, even when central government takes their money:

Demand for Glasgow rape services soar as boss calls for more council funding

quote:

The head of Glasgow's lifeline service for rape victims has called for more funding after demand has soared by almost 300 per cent.

Isabell Kerr, centre manager for Rape Crisis in Glasgow, penned a letter to Glasgow City Council leader Frank McAveety this week.

In the last year, the vital service has helped thousands of people and plays a huge part in the recovery of rape survivors following their attacks.

In 2015/16, they spent 3541 hours in 3139 appointments, held more than 200 group sessions and handled 779 cases.

They have also had one-off contact with almost 700 survivors of rape, and say in the last three years demand for their some parts of their service has increased by almost 300 per cent.

Demand for support and advocacy related calls, texts and emails have increased by 286 per cent, while overall demand for the service has risen by 58 per cent.

They assist with everything from counselling and referrals to other services, to taking survivors through the court process if they choose to seek a conviction against their attackers.

Isabelle told the Evening Times: "For the past 13 years our grant from the city council has been frozen but the number of survivors and family members seeking support from the Rape Crisis Centre has grown.

"Every year we are told that we have to work within existing budgets.

"We actively raise money to fund our services with many supporters giving up their time and energy for the service.

"But for the past three years we’ve operated at a deficit in order to meet the growing demand on our service.

"There are numerous studies that show the disproportionate number of sexual abuse survivors in addiction and mental health services, so as well as making economic sense to adequately fund the rape crisis centre it makes moral sense to support survivors in Glasgow. The value of our service is well known and accepted across the city so why doesn’t the funding follow?"

According to their records, around 65 per cent of those they help are from the city, yet only 12 per cent of their funding comes from Glasgow City Council.

In the letter, Ms Kerr wrote: " We have acquired a body of expertise over 40 years and we continue to build upon it.

"The training all of our workers must undertake is not only intensive but is also now accredited.

"We are no ‘tea and sympathy outfit.

"We are a body of highly skilled, trained experts in the field of sexual violence and abuse and we should be recognised as such."

The organisation is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year and have held numerous fundraising events to generate cash.

A spokesman from Glasgow City said: “Glasgow Rape Crisis Centre has an very important role in supporting those affected by sexual violence against women.

“Despite a huge reduction in the council’s overall budget in recent years, we have continued to fund the centre at previous levels.

“The centre is able to draw upon other sources of funding and is one of the many providers supported by the council that address violence against women.

“The council remains fully committed to tackling gender-based violence, abuse and exploitation.

“In 2015 Glasgow was named a White Ribbon City in recognition of the work it does to tackle violence against women.

“Our work includes the End Prostitution Now campaign, Sixteen Days of Action, the Routes Out of Prostitution project, the Trafficking Alliance Raising Awareness (TARA) project and ASSIST, the support project linked to Glasgow’s domestic abuse court.”

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Niric posted:

Oh, hey, look at this story from today, and note the absence of the words "Scottish" "Government" "cuts" - the SNP, like the Tories, realise that local government (which still has a strong Labour influence) takes the blame, even when central government takes their money:

Demand for Glasgow rape services soar as boss calls for more council funding

I'm honestly more concerned about the apparent 300% rise in rapes in Glasgow.

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

Corgis love bread. And Puro


I've just found out that one of the Highland Tory MSPs is their Land Reform spokesman. And obviously he is a landlord (& 4th Baronet). For all that Ruth Davidson does well, you have to say that making a member of the landed gentry your land reform spokesman is a mite tone deaf.

Alertrelic
Apr 18, 2008

forkboy84 posted:

I've just found out that one of the Highland Tory MSPs is their Land Reform spokesman. And obviously he is a landlord (& 4th Baronet). For all that Ruth Davidson does well, you have to say that making a member of the landed gentry your land reform spokesman is a mite tone deaf.

You must have missed this little exchange.

Zalakwe
Jun 4, 2007
Likes Cake, Hates Hamsters



Semprini posted:

It's not the best question, asking how satisfied people are with the person's performance as leader of their party.

I'm not a Tory, but I'm very happy with Ruth Davidson's leadership of the party, as she continually advocates policy positions that show the electorate that the Conservatives are still a shower of cunts.

I doubt the poll had room to explain that though.

It's actually a very good question. Lots of evidence is showing that approval ratings can give a better indication of outcomes than voting intention polling as our system becomes more presidential.

Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Sep 16, 2016

forkboy84
Jun 13, 2012

Corgis love bread. And Puro



Nah, that's exactly what I was referring to. Well, I read about the exchange rather than watching it but that's what brought this realisation to mind.

I knew Mountain was a bad egg, he was the local constituency candidate here in 2015 & 2016 (bastard came second behind Fergus Ewing. Between those 2 very conservative candidates accounted for 68.3% of the vote. I loving hate Inverness) before getting in as a region MSP. I just hadn't realised he was the Land Reform guy for the Tories..

Angepain
Jul 13, 2012

what keeps happening to my clothes

Jedit posted:

I'm honestly more concerned about the apparent 300% rise in rapes in Glasgow.

Hopefully that would just be because people are more aware of the service or more willing to use it. Though "hopefully" might not be the best word considering what that would mean about the number of people not getting help beforehand.

Zalakwe posted:

as our system becomes more presidential

:negative:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Zalakwe
Jun 4, 2007
Likes Cake, Hates Hamsters




Not sure where you are coming from here but no-one has managed to make more out of it that the SNP - perhaps Farage excepting. Their big personalities are critical to their success and core part of their strategy. Labour have nowt (in Scotland).

Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Sep 16, 2016

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply