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Blitz7x posted:Mark Davis knew Vegas was the place to be after he started banging Bonnie Rotten Really?
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Sep 16, 2016 01:03
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Are you asking me "really? You had to go there" or "really? Bonnie Rotten?"
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Sep 16, 2016 01:06
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Neil Armbong posted:Still so scummy that a minority investor reaps all benefits. Eh I wouldn't worry too much. 1) Governor has to agree to send it to the legislature and then it has to get by the Nevada legislature by a 2/3 majority 2) Then the NFL actually has to agree to have a team in Vegas But yeah for the moment let's laugh at these loving hilarious terms again: quote:At a meeting stoked with enthusiasm and a few minor squabbles, the 11-member committee unanimously supported the stadium developers’ preferred funding option, which requires a $750 million public investment, eliminates a 39 percent public contribution cap and allows the private partners to reap all stadium profits during the lifetime of the Raiders’ lease. Holy poo poo it's amazing how people (well not the actual people instead a group of 11 who have vested interest in this poo poo) agree to willingly get hosed. Like it sounds Adelson et. al like they could just massively decrease the actual cost of the stadium and reap all the same profits while committing much less capital. Jesus on further reflection that is such a bad deal. Conceptually if this passes the private investors could put in nothing, build at $750mio stadium, and collect all profits. It's a heads you lose, tails you lose scenario Adun fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 03:58
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v2vian man posted:Again, if not for the stadium, they could have that tax and better schools or public services They're raising the tax for that payment.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:30
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computer parts posted:They're raising the tax for that payment. Which just shows how hosed the priorities are of the local government.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:58
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computer parts posted:They're raising the tax for that payment. Oh good. So it was free money then. v2vian man posted:Again, if not for the stadium, they could have that tax and better schools or public services Stop coming into threads just to poo poo them up with "reasons" and "fact".
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Sep 16, 2016 05:39
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me and chiche. unexpected friends
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Sep 16, 2016 05:50
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What happens if the hotel tax doesn't cover the city's funding commitment? What happens if the stadium ends up costing more than projected? I'm legitimately asking because I don't know, and those are very important questions to consider. I also live in Oakland and even though they aren't my team I'm sad to see them go, but happy not a dime of public money is going to be spent to keep them here.
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Sep 16, 2016 06:00
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v2vian man posted:me and chiche. unexpected friends I can fake post my way through Frank Clark beating a woman and Aaron Hernandez committing actual murders, but, God help me, I can't help but drop the act when Mark Davis pulls out his pockets and plays the "poor me, I'm not some billionaire trustfund owner" and posters on this very board eat it up.
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Sep 16, 2016 06:03
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Ross Angeles posted:Vote Yes On C
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Sep 16, 2016 06:52
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Chichevache posted:I can fake post my way through Frank Clark beating a woman and Aaron Hernandez committing actual murders, but, God help me, I can't help but drop the act when Mark Davis pulls out his pockets and plays the "poor me, I'm not some billionaire trustfund owner" and posters on this very board eat it up. Yeah gently caress this. I don't know about you for sure, but I'm guessing your feelings on this are influenced by the Sonics going, same as mine. I hate this horseshit bidding war prisoners dilemma. Just ban public financing of stadiums on a federal level, tia. It's the only way this poo poo will end.
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Sep 16, 2016 06:55
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warcrimes posted:
scrub doesn't know the warboy handsign is a V8, 2/10
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Sep 16, 2016 07:29
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bawfuls posted:Nah, no thanks I'm gonna. (It won't pass anyway)
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Sep 16, 2016 07:35
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Skwirl posted:What happens if the hotel tax doesn't cover the city's funding commitment? What happens if the stadium ends up costing more than projected? I'm legitimately asking because I don't know, and those are very important questions to consider. Do people who know more about this kinda poo poo have answers to these questions, seeing the loving tunnel disaster in Seattle has made me a lot more curious about what happens with cost overruns in public financing issues.
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Sep 16, 2016 08:27
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Skwirl posted:Do people who know more about this kinda poo poo have answers to these questions, seeing the loving tunnel disaster in Seattle has made me a lot more curious about what happens with cost overruns in public financing issues. This is by no means complete but I found this for you. The teams have been at least partially responsible for overruns in the past, which makes me think they have probably started to write protections for that into building contracts. It also doesn't mention where the millions of dollars difference between overruns and payments in the last column is made up. So yeah that doesn't help much at all really. e: poo poo someone with more search savvy than I have find the second part of this article. Grittybeard fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Sep 16, 2016 |
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Sep 16, 2016 09:02
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It still seems insane that the Nevada Game Board Control is (allegedly) blocking all non-slots gambling from the new arena. Who goes to Vegas with the intention of not gambling, drinking, or seeing naked women?
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Sep 16, 2016 09:05
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Zurreco posted:It still seems insane that the Nevada Game Board Control is (allegedly) blocking all non-slots gambling from the new arena. Who goes to Vegas with the intention of not gambling, drinking, or seeing naked women? That sounds like the nearby casinos not wanting to lose gambling business. Being next to the arena is nice if it means more guests in your hotel/casino, less nice if they never visit the casino half of your hotel/casino.
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Sep 16, 2016 09:10
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Grittybeard posted:This is by no means complete but I found this for you. The teams have been at least partially responsible for overruns in the past, which makes me think they have probably started to write protections for that into building contracts. It also doesn't mention where the millions of dollars difference between overruns and payments in the last column is made up. Yeah, both the "who paid" column not adding up to overrun column, and some massive formatting errors (under the Cleveland Indians stadium entry talks about the NBA Cavs in the "Who Paid" column) your first link is interesting but not enlightening. Resting more and more on the side of "NFL is a multi-billion dollar industry owned by people who'd never be poor if they never made another dollar in their life, they can pay for their own loving stadiums."
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Sep 16, 2016 09:25
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I know nothing about football aside from "field goal is 3 points, touchdown is 6/7 points", so I feel bad posting here. But I know enough about my local politics to say the Raiders aren't coming. Not only have we gotten no guarantee, but almost nobody who has been elected has approved of it, and the two people on the committee that approved the plan was a lot of casino industry execs. It was a Chamber of Commerce with the Governor's ear, basically. The two politicians on that board were the most skeptical. And before they voted another county commissioner showed up on behalf of No Subsidies For Stadiums Ever. It will be an enormous battle, you have a lot of libertarians in this state in addition to people like myself who don't believe in bootstraps but will vow to vote out anyone who approves a subsidy. The Democrats now have an option to either support a top Republican donor who wants them all out of office, or fight against the liberal stereotype and look like responsible stewards of the purse in a show of posturing for the taxpayer. Hmm, wonder what they'll choose?
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Sep 17, 2016 04:38
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Well if I know liberals, they'll pick "liberal stereotype" every time. :P
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Sep 17, 2016 05:11
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Wouldn't bet on that. Not here, anyway. The enormous opportunity cost to public services like schools combined with the truth that the recession wasn't that long ago and all it'll take is a serious drop in RevPAR and we won't be able to find that stadium commitment but will still be required to pay it anyway. This thing was initially sold as a college football stadium that would hold NFL games on a rather intimate seat count compared to modern stadiums, but it's since ballooned into an NFL first project that Adelson wants to charge UNLV to use.
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Sep 17, 2016 05:14
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I'm trying to plan my version of disaster tourism with a trip to Qualcomm and I've settled on the game against Tampa Bay. What part of the stadium has the most dreadful experience? Tickets for the game have fallen to below $18 bucks. I'll spend a little more for a sadder experience (although at 18 bucks I might just buy a seat buffer for myself).
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Sep 17, 2016 05:25
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Craptacular! posted:The Democrats now have an option to either support a top Republican donor who wants them all out of office, or fight against the liberal stereotype and look like responsible stewards of the purse in a show of posturing for the taxpayer. Hmm, wonder what they'll choose? If there's any kind of division, it'll be north vs south. there's already rumors of the practice facility being built in reno (on unr's campus) and maybe preseason games winding up there somehow
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Sep 18, 2016 07:50
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Volkerball posted:You could say the same about welfare spending and public transportation if you don't use it. It's not just football fans. There's all kinds of concerts and things that are available with a stadium that large. There'll probably be some major UFC fights and boxing matches as well being Vegas, and those will be incredible spectator events. They'll also certainly get a super bowl, with all the attention and side events that come along with that. Then there's the soccer friendlies between actual good teams that are fun as hell to watch. A stadium brings a whole bunch of entertainment options that cover the base of pretty much everyone at the expense of a 1% increase in taxes aimed at people who stay in hotels. It's cool and good. someone spent $7.95 to shame you and I'm glad for it lmao
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Sep 18, 2016 21:34
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Luna Was Here posted:someone spent $7.95 to shame you and I'm glad for it lmao That welfare and public transportation are beneficial to the people who use them at least at some tax expense to those who don't isn't controversial. In fact, in the case of welfare, that's the entire point of the program. The point being that not every penny of taxes spent by every person is going to be spent in a way that is a direct benefit to themselves, so a stadium doesn't need to meet that criteria. Whether those programs are more or less important than a stadium is a completely separate discussion that I didn't comment on whatsoever. If someone can't read and gets so salty about it they want to throw money away, lol ok. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 22:01
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okay which one of you did this (ham) Volkerball posted:That welfare and public transportation are beneficial to the people who use them at least at some tax expense to those who don't isn't controversial. In fact, in the case of welfare, that's the entire point of the program. The point being that not every penny of taxes spent by every person is going to be spent in a way that is a direct benefit to themselves. Whether or not they are justified is a completely separate conversation that I didn't comment on. If someone can't read and gets salty about it, that's their problem. you are massively, insanely dumb
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Sep 18, 2016 22:02
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Volkerball posted:That welfare and public transportation are beneficial to the people who use them at least at some tax expense to those who don't isn't controversial. In fact, in the case of welfare, that's the entire point of the program. The point being that not every penny of taxes spent by every person is going to be spent in a way that is a direct benefit to themselves, so a stadium doesn't need to meet that criteria. Whether those programs are more or less important than a stadium is a completely separate discussion that I didn't comment on whatsoever. If someone can't read and gets so salty about it they want to throw money away, lol ok. Ok except there aren't people making millions of dollars off of welfare or public transit but there is someone profiting from the stadium so why should tax payers have to foot the bill for what is nearly pure profit for the stadium owner, regardless of what tax money it may or may not bring from sales of tickets and concessions Luna Was Here fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 22:08
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Luna Was Here posted:Ok except there aren't people making millions of dollars off of welfare or public transit but there is someone profiting from the stadium so why should tax payers have to foot the bill for what is nearly pure profit for the stadium owner, regardless of what tax money it may or may not bring from sales of tickets and concessions It's not a matter of whether or not they should have to. More than 32 cities are willing to do it, so you have to do it too if you want to compete. If you won't pay, you don't get a team. It's that simple. Oakland has played this game for 10 years, and they are going to lose the Raiders over it. If you want to chase teams out as a matter of principle when it comes to financing stadiums, that's your right. You can vote for like minded city-level politicians and push for that as a policy. And I see the merit in that, even if I think it'll just end up with you with your dick in your hand with no team and the US no closer towards ending public financing for stadiums. But for the 32+ cities willing to pay, it's a matter of what it will cost, and whether it's worth it. If it costs Vegas a 1% tax increase on hotel rooms targeted at tourists, then I think the pros, which I've already outlined, are worth the cons. It's a good deal. It may not be ideal, but that's the way poo poo works.
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Sep 18, 2016 22:19
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Volkerball posted:It's not a matter of whether or not they should have to. More than 32 cities are willing to do it, so you have to do it too if you want to compete. If you won't pay, you don't get a team. It's that simple. Oakland has played this game for 10 years, and they are going to lose the Raiders over it. If you want to chase teams out as a matter of principle when it comes to financing stadiums, that's your right. You can vote for like minded city-level politicians and push for that as a policy. And I see the merit in that, even if I think it'll just end up with you with your dick in your hand with no team and the US no closer towards ending public financing for stadiums. But for the 32+ cities willing to pay, it's a matter of what it will cost, and whether it's worth it. If it costs Vegas a 1% tax increase on hotel rooms targeted at tourists, then I think the pros, which I've already outlined, are worth the cons. It's a good deal. It may not be ideal, but that's the way poo poo works. Maybe this is just because I'm not a big sport or concert goer-toer (which is likely to do with the fact I'm from Montana, which as far as entertainment goes is a barren wasteland) but I don't see the allure to having a team you can claim as your own. I think it's totally fine for wanting one because it might add a little more city or state pride or whatnot, but I think you equating it to welfare and public transit is probably where your comparison crosses the line. Stadiums are a luxury, they're non-essential for every party except for the party standing to make the king's ransom off of taxes that end up footing the bill. Things like welfare and public transit are services that (for the people who use them) ARE essential, and are not a luxury and even people who do not use them can see the benefit to someone who would need them.
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Sep 18, 2016 22:41
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Edit: eh, nm
Neil Armbong fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 22:45
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Alaois posted:okay which one of you did this (ham) i don't know the last time i gave money to this website
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Sep 18, 2016 23:37
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not to mention i love vokerball and i haven't really read his posts in this thread either
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Sep 18, 2016 23:38
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Alaois posted:okay which one of you did this (ham) came to this thread from this ad
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Sep 18, 2016 23:41
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Volkerball posted:That welfare and public transportation are beneficial to the people who use them at least at some tax expense to those who don't isn't controversial. In fact, in the case of welfare, that's the entire point of the program. The point being that not every penny of taxes spent by every person is going to be spent in a way that is a direct benefit to themselves, so a stadium doesn't need to meet that criteria. Whether those programs are more or less important than a stadium is a completely separate discussion that I didn't comment on whatsoever. If someone can't read and gets so salty about it they want to throw money away, lol ok. Welfare and public transportation benefits everyone, including people who don't use it directly. Everyone on a bus is someone not in a car, so you driving in your car has less traffic to deal with.
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Sep 18, 2016 23:48
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Do we know how the bed taxes or other taxes in LV are allocated? Orlando - another large tourist destination- can ONLY spend its bed taxes on certain things, like a convention center, and required a near act of God to get that money spent on the Citrus Bowl and the Orlando Arena.
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Sep 19, 2016 00:56
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Volkerball posted:It's not a matter of whether or not they should have to. More than 32 cities are willing to do it, so you have to do it too if you want to compete. If you won't pay, you don't get a team. Nobody is making Nevada pay except a man who is worth almost 50x as much as Donald Trump. If it was such a fantastic thing, our local multi-billion-dollar luminaries would find the money between their couch cushions. They already spend about $3billion every time they put up a casino. He spent $140 million in a bid to control the local press. But if what his newspaper has to say is true, he couldn't even convince his own company's board that it was a good use of the company purse so he's using his own cash and hiring them as representation. Nystral posted:Do we know how the bed taxes or other taxes in LV are allocated? Orlando - another large tourist destination- can ONLY spend its bed taxes on certain things, like a convention center, and required a near act of God to get that money spent on the Citrus Bowl and the Orlando Arena. Room taxes vary by county, and both the state and county governments have the power to adjust a county's room tax rate. The current room tax rate for Clark is 12%. Of that, it's divided as such: 5% for the Las Vegas Convention & Visitors Authority (organization that owns the public Convention Center and runs those "What Happens Here" commercials) 2% for a state tourism fund that also supplements school districts (aka your typical "come to Nevada" state tourism bureau that promotes the entire state along with Vegas) 1% goes to transportation funding 1% goes to the county's general fund 3% goes to the State Supplemental School Fund. That last one was the last big alteration to the tax, added in 2009 to fund schools through the recession, and raising the rate from 9% to 12. That 2% Tourism fund one would be raised to 2.8% as part of the budget magic behind this stuff. As the Governor's committee reports to the Governor, the most he can do is summon the legislature to vote on it. Voting on it will require a 2/3rds majority due to a law that makes it harder to raise any tax than it does add on spending (which is how California ended up in a huge rut.) The guy putting together this deal basically owns the state GOP, so it becomes a partisan battle at this point. If the state can't get two-thirds, then it goes to the county, where a simple majority is needed. One of these county politicians was on this task board, another commissioner spoke out from the audience against subsidy. In general county/city politicians here are just as corrupt as they are in the state capitol, but receive less huge corporate donations. If you're wondering why the local tourism board was completely cut out of this, it's because Sheldon Adelson's Las Vegas Sands dislikes the LVCVA for reasons that are too boring to explain here but come down to convention center envy. (edited because I cleaned this post up a lot and removed a lot of regional politics) Edit 2: As you can see, the taxation increase is not as significant as tax jumps we have done in the past like our hail mary for education, but these are 33 year bonds; though the Raiders would agree to lease it for 30 years, leaving us with only 10% of the time that we are paying for a football stadium that has no football team. Assuming the lease is iron-clad and Sands refuses to let them out of it, which ahahahahah they'll have demolished it and built another casino by then. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 12:01
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Mel Mudkiper posted:came to this thread from this ad Me too and might I just say that as a person who doesn't care about football or live anywhere near the west coast, gently caress you all for caring so much about this dumb thing.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:27
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Alvie posted:Me too and might I just say that as a person who doesn't care about football or live anywhere near the west coast, gently caress you all for caring so much about this dumb thing. Thanks for chiming in.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:38
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Vote Yes On C
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Sep 19, 2016 19:39
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Alvie posted:Me too and might I just say that as a person who doesn't care about football or live anywhere near the west coast, gently caress you all for caring so much about this dumb thing. Thanks mate.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:40
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