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The law posted:If you are a manufacturer, importer, distributor, and/or retailer of consumer products, you have a legal obligation to immediately report the following types of information to the CPSC: Emphasis mine. You'll note how it's not optional. All companies know to report this and all of them do because to not do so will almost certainly result in liability. Thermopyle posted:I'm not sure why you think this is a retort to my point. I don't understand you, you don't understand me, or we don't understand each other. Thermopyle posted:You guys are fooling yourself if you think any company would have been markedly different in how they handled this. This is false. Every other company would have reported this to the CPSC immediately. It would be reckless not to, and that's exactly what the quote I quoted says: quote:“This is completely unusual; companies just don’t issue recalls without the CPSC,” says Pamela Gilbert, a partner with Washington’s Cuneo Gilbert & LaDuca LLP and a former executive director of the CPSC. Not only is it a retort, it is a direct contradiction to your stated premise that "any other company" would not have done anything differently. In fact the opposite is true, "companies just don't issue recalls without the CPSC". So either you're wrong about how recalls work, or the former director of the government agency responsible for issuing recalls is wrong about how recalls work. Moochewmoo posted:But that's not a fact? It's unusual. Not every recall ever done in the history of business has been done through them. What actually changed once they got on board with CSPC for the recall? Verizon already sent out text September second notifying of the recall. What else is to be done in your enlightened opinion? Every recall for safety reasons since 1972 has. What actually changed is that the recall has force of law, with prescribed remedies and required notifications for consumers. That's the point of regulation.
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Sep 17, 2016 06:47
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This is a big game of "he said, she said". According to Samsung the US recall took longer precisely because they went through Federal channels. Having worked with and for the Federal government I find it very easy to believe that is the case, as one week is considered expedited processing at a federal level. Regardless, this is an unprecedented event in the smartphone market.
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Sep 17, 2016 07:33
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A quick google turns up a few companies that've failed to comply with the cpsc and are sued for anywhere between 4-15 million, or a slap on the wrist to Samsung. I don't think they're going to go after Samsung for a week's notice, given that they had unofficially "recalled" their product beforehand (while the product was still being sold in stores in Asia apparently, some of which were being imported to the US by weirdos on XDA apparently), but it's still weird that such a large company had a goof on that scale with a product of theirs that could literally injure people or damage property. I can understand why people buy Samsungs even though I wouldn't, but if people are reporting phones exploding or causing fires I'd expect maybe two to three days tops to verify the problem internally before issuing a recall through the appropriate channels for each country they sell in. Seven days of not knowing whether your $900 device might destroy your home seems unacceptable no matter what side of the argument you're on. A "voluntary" recall doesn't really cut it because as seen in this thread even, people are willing to play the odds given the choice. Even if I'm completely wrong here, what it looks like is Samsung tried to shove it under the rug with a voluntary recall, then when that didn't work went ahead and did what they should have done in the first place. Even if it just took that long for the paperwork to go through they could have at least made that information known for a product that had an extremely small chance to injure people. I think Samsung's marketing is strong enough that this won't hurt them too much in the long run, but it still seems handled kind of badly.
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Sep 17, 2016 07:57
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Wrist Watch posted:A quick google turns up a few companies that've failed to comply with the cpsc and are sued for anywhere between 4-15 million, or a slap on the wrist to Samsung. I don't think they're going to go after Samsung for a week's notice, given that they had unofficially "recalled" their product beforehand (while the product was still being sold in stores in Asia apparently, some of which were being imported to the US by weirdos on XDA apparently), but it's still weird that such a large company had a goof on that scale with a product of theirs that could literally injure people or damage property. This is exactly what I'm trying to say only said much better. Particularly this: "what it looks like is Samsung tried to shove it under the rug with a voluntary recall, then when that didn't work went ahead and did what they should have done in the first place". Whether that's what happened or that's what it looks like, it's the optics that matter.
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Sep 17, 2016 08:34
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LastInLine posted:Emphasis mine. Ahh, I see where the confusion arises. 1) I'm talking about a more meta level than you and is why I specifically said "regulatory agencies" rather than "CPSC". We have regulatory agencies because companies act in their own (often short-term) interests which many times doesn't directly coincide with societies interests. There's the SEC, CPSC, IRS, agencies all around the world and up and down the governments. Companies require regulation and we should expect them to behave in their own interest. 2) As such, even if I believed that every company has issued a safety recall when they should have (they haven't) and that when they did so they did through via the CPSC (I doubt it)...the CPSC is a red herring. Most people don't actually care about whether the recall is done through the CPSC, they care about the result...did the recall happen quickly, efficiently, and with a minimum of confusion. As someone who has dealt with several safety-recalled products over his life this does not describe most CPSC recalls I have been involved in. 3) Even if I was talking on the level of the CPSC, I literally do not believe every company in the exact same situation that Samsung (which is what I referred to as "any company"...because it's the only comparison that makes sense) is in would have done exactly as we would desire them to do. In fact, I believe that the majority of companies would have been in a narrow band of possible actions both above and below the actions Samsung actually took. I mean, why not? They either were inept (like many companies) or they took a calculated risk (like many companies) and weighed the potential costs of non-compliance with regulatory schemes against potential savings that they calculated they would achieve by not complying with whatever regulatory scheme. None of this is to say that Samsung is not terrible. All companies are terrible to some degree and we should expect any company to cut whatever corners they can. You can read that as excusing Samsung, or you can read it as accusing capitalism, or you can read it as "that's the way the universe works" (my preferred reading).
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Sep 17, 2016 21:58
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Ah, I understand where you're coming from and to a degree I'd even agree with you. I feel that I'm actually more optimistic on this point than you are* in that I believe that some actors would in fact "do what's right", if only to get out ahead of bad press and potential litigation. By that I mean to say that in a way, Note7s blowing up could have actually been a good thing for Samsung in the long run. If they'd had quickly had a cohesive and coordinated strategy of appearing to work with local regulatory bodies to swiftly replace their devices, universally replacing them either temporarily or permanently with an S7/S7E (owner's choice), and quickly pushing software to brick the devices, they would've actually grown in public esteem. Granted, that's not doing what's right for the right reasons but that's capitalism, not Samsung. *Genuinely surprising because while I feel like you'd describe yourself as a person who is rational and who tries to be objective by acknowledging your own biases, I feel like your opinions and views represent, on the whole, a far more optimistic view of the world than I am willing to accept. I imagine, though I have no evidence, that there is a positive correlation to optimism and parenthood. ClassActionFursuit fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Sep 17, 2016 |
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Sep 17, 2016 22:42
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LastInLine posted:Ah, I understand where you're coming from and to a degree I'd even agree with you. I feel that I'm actually more optimistic on this point than you are* in that I believe that some actors would in fact "do what's right", if only to get out ahead of bad press and potential litigation. I don't know how realistic it is to expect a company to have a million loaner devices ready to go in such a short time frame.
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Sep 17, 2016 23:12
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Desk Lamp posted:I don't know how realistic it is to expect a company to have a million loaner devices ready to go in such a short time frame. At least they were in the retail channel and had been for a while. It's a hypothetical regardless but I would suspect that given how early in the Note7's run the problem emerged, even with the huge sales numbers Samsung generates, that there would have been a good amount of supply of the S7/S7E to make a dent. Given what we know about Samsung's poor supply chain management now I could be wrong, but still you'd expect any company to have a good handle on how much unsold inventory exists at a given moment. Still I think you're missing the forest for the trees because I'm saying this was just as much a PR opportunity as it turned out to be a blunder. I think we can all agree that they're taking a beating in the press and it's mainly because they've never looked like they were out in front of it (mainly because they weren't). Even if the timeline for their actions was the same, with the same amount of time from acknowledgment of the problem to replacement program in place, surely simply doing things like communicating effectively what the plan was to everyone and coordinating with local regulatory regimes quickly would have ameliorated most of the bad press? To me it seems like it's the difference between looking like you're covering your rear end and looking like you give a poo poo even if in reality there is no difference in the timeframe for resolution (which you've correctly noted is solely determined by supply constraints).
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Sep 17, 2016 23:33
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My friend is thinking about getting the HTC 10. What's the consensus on that device?
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Sep 18, 2016 00:08
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LastInLine posted:At least they were in the retail channel and had been for a while. It's a hypothetical regardless but I would suspect that given how early in the Note7's run the problem emerged, even with the huge sales numbers Samsung generates, that there would have been a good amount of supply of the S7/S7E to make a dent. Given what we know about Samsung's poor supply chain management now I could be wrong, but still you'd expect any company to have a good handle on how much unsold inventory exists at a given moment. I'm not disagreeing with you, I wouldn't dare make the argument that they've done a great job with the recall. But given the sheer unprecedented scale of the issue I don't think it could've been anything but a blunder. We don't really know how Samsung manages their supply lines, it's easy for us on the outside to assume that they should have no problem identifying which phones are faulty. E: and while there's probably a million potential replacement units in retail channels, coordinating a replacement program with the myriad different retail partners in possession of those units is probably a more herculean task than the recall itself. Desk Lamp fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 00:15
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FAA has issued updated guidance. http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=86504&cid=TW475 Now that the recall is official with the CPSC, Note 7s are considered hazardous material. Essentially, it's gone from an advisory asking that they not be used to requirement that they cannot be used. You also must take precautions to ensure they can't start up while in flight such as protecting the power button. This also essentially means that if your Note 7 causes an incident in flight due to it being improperly stowed, you could be charged with unlawfully transporting hazardous material on an airplane.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:42
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ManSedan posted:My friend is thinking about getting the HTC 10. What's the consensus on that device? I tried one out for 2 weeks and thought it was a really solid well made phone. The screen is a little washed out and there's no adaptive display I guess because it is LCD. The camera produced great colors but for the life of me I couldn't get it to completely focus. The performance was great but I felt like it stuttered a couple of times where the Axon 7 didn't. Battery life is 12-15 hours with 2-3 SOT and constant Bluetooth podcast listening but it's got QC 3.0 so it charges up really quickly. I can't speak about how quickly it gets updates but I figure 2-3 months for it to get 7.0. The phone is mostly stock and I ignored most of the software additions. It has double tap to wake. I'm not sure it is worth $700 but I haven't messed around with the S7 so I can't give a comparison there. I'd wait till October to see what the Nexus is like since it's also made by HTC.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:27
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Jigoku posted:Battery life is 12-15 hours with 2-3 SOT This is unacceptable imo and here is a comparison with a $150 new moto g, almost two days with ~2 hours sot 
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Sep 18, 2016 03:37
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Impressive that if you don't use your phone it lasts awhile!
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Sep 18, 2016 03:57
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How is a public "voluntary recall" that was being reported by tech news all over the Internet "sweeping it under the rug"?
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Sep 18, 2016 05:28
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Blue Train posted:This is unacceptable imo and here is a comparison with a $150 new moto g, almost two days with ~2 hours sot I own the Ten and I've found the battery life disappointing but not problematic. That is, I was hoping for "better than my old One M8 got when it was new" and what I've received is about the same. I, too, have found that with QC 3.0 the point is moot. If the phone's gotten low by evening, I plug it in for half an hour while I relax on the couch, and that gives it more than enough juice to make it to bedtime.
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Sep 18, 2016 05:51
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Yeah. QC 3.0 has been awesome but USB PD takes much longer as far as the Nexii 5x and 6p are concerned.
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Sep 18, 2016 08:10
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The plural of Nexus is Nexuses please stop that other poo poo
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Sep 18, 2016 08:14
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Syrinxx posted:The plural of Nexus is Nexuses please stop that other poo poo This must be why they switched to Pixel.
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Sep 18, 2016 09:31
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Syrinxx posted:The plural of Nexus is Nexuses please stop that other poo poo Octopii
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Sep 18, 2016 11:30
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Nitrousoxide posted:Octopii 
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Sep 18, 2016 11:47
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Octopussies. There was even a film about it, c'mon!
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Sep 18, 2016 11:53
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"You may use your phone or tablet in flight mode. Except for the Samsung Galaxy Note 7. This device must be turned off" Whole plane laughs
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Sep 18, 2016 11:55
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Nitrousoxide posted:Octopii Nexopodes.
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Sep 18, 2016 12:15
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Farchanter posted:This must be why they switched to Pixel. Pixii
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Sep 18, 2016 12:42
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Endless Mike posted:Impressive that if you don't use your phone it lasts awhile! not if you have an htc 10!
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Sep 18, 2016 13:16
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A double i ending doesn't even make sense in Latin. The double i endings come about in some words that end in -ius, where the -us becomes -i making for a -ii. The word nexus in Latin pluralizes to nexi, but I'm guessing they aren't using the Latin definition of Nexus: http://www.latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/Nexus
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Sep 18, 2016 15:18
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quote:Definitions: Something something millennials always on their phones Alternatively: something something Google owns our data
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Sep 18, 2016 16:37
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I set up my mom's new phone today and, while the built in device migration process has improved significantly, it was still slow and crappy. I had to download a separate app to move SMSes and the background image and home screen shortcuts didn't transfer. This was 2013 Moto X to Moto G 4. My dad said the Samsung process is better, and my iphone having siblings were blown away by how slow and painful it was comparatively. Still, it's come a long way.
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Sep 19, 2016 00:37
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Mr. Powers posted:A double i ending doesn't even make sense in Latin. The double i endings come about in some words that end in -ius, where the -us becomes -i making for a -ii. The word nexus in Latin pluralizes to nexi, but I'm guessing they aren't using the Latin definition of Nexus: http://www.latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/Nexus 
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Sep 19, 2016 01:17
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Any word on the new PIXEL PHONES being water resistant? My WIFE had the iPhone seven and I'm jealous of that one feature.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:00
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Mr. Powers posted:A double i ending doesn't even make sense in Latin. The double i endings come about in some words that end in -ius, where the -us becomes -i making for a -ii. The word nexus in Latin pluralizes to nexi, but I'm guessing they aren't using the Latin definition of Nexus: http://www.latin-dictionary.net/search/latin/Nexus Well, it traces back to the 'tie, bind' definition, as the modern use of the word nexus to mean a point where everything is tied together. That's presumably the word Blade Runner and then Google was using.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:02
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Any word on the new PIXEL PHONES being water resistant? My WIFE had the iPhone seven and I'm jealous of that one feature. I hear the Samsung phones are waterproof, but they may light on fire.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:42
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Jerk McJerkface posted:Any word on the new PIXEL PHONES being water resistant? My WIFE had the iPhone seven and I'm jealous of that one feature. We don't know yet. I'm reallllly hoping they will be IP68, or I may skip them.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:54
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What are the go-to phones if you need one with dual SIM support?
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Sep 19, 2016 03:15
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At work we make stuff work at 10m of submersion. I demand the same from my phone.
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Sep 19, 2016 03:18
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isndl posted:What are the go-to phones if you need one with dual SIM support?
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Sep 19, 2016 05:52
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Moey posted:I hear the Samsung phones are waterproof, but they may light on fire. ITYM: "self-drying".
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Sep 19, 2016 05:57
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The battery life on the 5x bothered me so much (I was getting 8 hours of battery life when I connected my watch to it) I picked up the Moto Z Play. It's awesome so far. It's got a mid level processor but gently caress if I notice. It's less choppy than the 6p and is on par with the HTC 10 and ZTE Axon 7. Build quality is good and the phone feels solid. Battery life is looking to be awesome and all of the features I missed from the Droid Turbo are present. I increased the animation speed in developer settings with no lag save for Play Music which is choppy regardless of device. Camera and speakers are adequate, I don't know about updates as this is another Verizon phone, and it's loving huge compared to the Axon 7 even with the same screen size but it finally feels like I've found a keeper until the Nexii come out. On Moto's website if you order the phone you get a free battery mod.
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Sep 19, 2016 09:21
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I'm currently looking to replace my elderly original moto x with something new. With the new Sony Xperia X compact available soon, I was wondering if anyone had opinions on that line. Most websites seem to review them favorably for Sony keeping their non monolithic phones in the more competitive range of specs, and the camera is a tempting feature as I find myself documenting more and more things for work usage. Size is a concern for me and the decent options for the range I'd prefer is this line or iPhone. I do not know anyone who uses one of the compact line, let alone Sony and I'm wondering if there is something I'm overlooking about them that is a real deal breaker.
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Sep 19, 2016 09:45
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