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tenspott posted:Lol no, it was to have enough guns to ward off the impending British invasion. That was a very real threat that came true 25 years later. Not everything is about slaves. Wait are you implying the war of 1812 was a British Invasion?
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Sep 17, 2016 20:22
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tenspott posted:Lol no, it was to have enough guns to ward off the impending British invasion. That was a very real threat that came true 25 years later. Not everything is about slaves. I really have got to read more about that period, it sound like a fascinating time. The uncertainty of how long the whole thing was going to last had to have influenced everything the government did.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:24
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tenspott posted:Lol no, it was to have enough guns to ward off the impending British invasion. That was a very real threat that came true 25 years later. Not everything is about slaves. Actually yeah, just about everything in American history does revolve around slaves. Also we have a perfectly good modern example of the American government literally rounding people up and putting them into camps, and nobody did a goddamned thing about it. Japanese people in WWII didn't have a good time of it in internment, and the 2nd Amendment didn't mean jackshit. The only effective rebellion in American history was backed by rich slaveholding plantation owners and it still failed. A bunch of farmers mad about taxes, whether it's the late 1700s, or tomorrow, won't make a difference. Regardless I think that presently gun control is a losing political issue overall and I think the Dems should abandon it rhetorically and focus on more pressing issues. It's a dumb wedge thing that doesn't bring enough liberals to the polls and energizes shithead conservatives to show up more. We can blunt most of the lovely effects of mass gun ownership by ending the war on drugs and cleaning up organized crime, as well as improved mental health services coupled with universal healthcare. That said if it were ever politically viable I would support full repeal of the 2nd in a heartbeat. I don't think it adds nearly enough to our society to justify the lovely garbage it entails and you don't need to be constitutionally guaranteed guns to be able to own hunting rifles or museum pieces with the proper legislation.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:25
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Trabisnikof posted:Wait are you implying the war of 1812 was a British Invasion? Technically it was the second British invasion - a "new wave" - if you will.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:26
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The Democrat's continuing support of gun control is a gift they give the Republicans every election.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:28
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Guy Goodbody posted:The Democrat's continuing support of gun control is a gift they give the Republicans every election. Exactly. I kind of don't give a poo poo about mass shootings at this point because there clearly is no political will to stop them. We watched two dozen little kids and teachers die in a single morning and nobody gave a gently caress. That was the time to pivot to other things. Most gun violence is in fact related to general crime, and specifically organized crime, and we can tackle that without worrying about worthless conservative shitheels crying about their dick substitutes.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:30
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Guy Goodbody posted:The Democrat's continuing support of gun control is a gift they give the Republicans every election. It is a gift the republicans have made for themselves honestly. It is their insistence on maintaining that the Dem's want to take all guns that allows them to continue to fight successfully against otherwise high public support for various gun control measures. The Democrats backing off on the issue would not stop the republicans from tying them to it in perpetuity.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:31
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Lightning Knight posted:Exactly. I kind of don't give a poo poo about mass shootings at this point because there clearly is no political will to stop them. We watched two dozen little kids and teachers die in a single morning and nobody gave a gently caress. That was the time to pivot to other things. Most gun violence is in fact related to general crime, and specifically organized crime, and we can tackle that without worrying about worthless conservative shitheels crying about their dick substitutes. Remember that time a terrorist murdered 50 people in a gay club and the Democrats response was to insist on gun control measures that wouldn't have prevented the shooting? That was fun.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:33
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How can you tell whether a tweet is from an android or iOs device?
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Sep 17, 2016 20:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:pretty drat sure Israel being into the big 10 is written in stone 
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Sep 17, 2016 20:36
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computer parts posted:I dunno, worked for Iraqis. You don't need intercontinental supply lines, native allies to help with running day to day governance and knowledge of the local terrain, rotating tours of duty, etc for the US army to put down an insurrection inside the US. There are a lot of home court advantages in war, and the US army would have them all. Guy Goodbody posted:The Democrat's continuing support of gun control is a gift they give the Republicans every election. So is anti-racism, doesn't mean they're bad stances to take.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:37
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QuarkJets posted:Is this going to be one of those pedantic things where you say "ah-HAH but that's technically just a semiauto ergo automatic weapons are completely fine" .......words mean things. If someone asks if they've used an automatic weapon, and they haven't used automatic weapons, that's not a "Gotcha!". That's just answering the question, which is a valid question because you can in fact legally own automatic weapons in this country and it's possible one of the million mass shooters we've had might have had one. It doesn't follow from that that anyone has a particular need to have an automatic weapon just because mass shooters haven't used them, you can acknowledge a fact without building some loving mythology around it to appease your personal political god. Or, I don't know, maybe you can't. I sure as hell can.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:37
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Guy Goodbody posted:Remember that time a terrorist murdered 50 people in a gay club and the Democrats response was to insist on gun control measures that wouldn't have prevented the shooting? That was fun. Which measure did they push and why would it of been ineffective?
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Sep 17, 2016 20:37
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remusclaw posted:It is a gift the republicans have made for themselves honestly. It is their insistence on maintaining that the Dem's want to take all guns that allows them to continue to fight successfully against otherwise high public support for various gun control measures. The Democrats backing off on the issue would not stop the republicans from tying them to it in perpetuity. NRA only cares about gun sales so they get the gop to drum up hatred so more people with small penis issues buy lots of guns.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:38
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socialsecurity posted:Which measure did they push and why would it of been ineffective? Expanded background checks and no guns for people on the no-fly list. It was a big thing, Democrats sat on the floor because Republicans wouldn't let those bills get voted on.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:47
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Guy Goodbody posted:Expanded background checks and no guns for people on the no-fly list. It was a big thing, Democrats sat on the floor because Republicans wouldn't let those bills get voted on. And would it of not worked in that situation?
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Sep 17, 2016 20:51
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:The idea that personal gun ownership will be able to stop government tyranny in the US in the 21st century is a loving idiotic delusion and people who cling to it deserve to be ignored, just like we should ignore creationists and climate change denialists. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/08/us/lesson-for-stalemated-sides-in-oregon-a-texas-standoff-without-end.html John Joe Gray hid from the authorities for 15 years until charges were dropped against him. He fled to a compound in east Texas where he and his militia buddies took up arms, warning the authorities to "bring body bags" if they came for him, and it worked. They didn't want another Waco and left them alone. A bunch of militia guys with guns aren't gonna be overthrowing the US government, but as long as they have enough men and enough guns, they can resist and hide out from them if they want to. Imagine if a few hundred (or even thousand) armed men dug themselves into the Rocky Mountains. It took the full might of the US military over a month to clear out a single city in Iraq, and it costed them over 700 casualties.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:52
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Zwabu posted:How can you tell whether a tweet is from an android or iOs device? Tweetdeck shares that information. Alternately, if you only want to see the android tweets, you could read the RealRealDonaldT twitter bot someone at Gawker threw together.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:54
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Then you look at the y'all queda mess.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:54
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im wacky
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Sep 17, 2016 20:54
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It's Vice, so take it as you will, but one of their reporters got arrested for trying to attend a Trump rally
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Sep 17, 2016 20:55
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lozzle posted:But Hillary wants to legalize pot, while Trump's AG-to-be Chris Christie has promised to stamp out legalized pot? Hillary wants to decriminalize pot, not legalize it. Gary Johnson wants to legalize it. So, it is still somewhat dumb to be a legalization only single issue voter, but they are technically being consistent.
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Sep 17, 2016 20:58
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Kenzie posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/08/us/lesson-for-stalemated-sides-in-oregon-a-texas-standoff-without-end.html
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Sep 17, 2016 21:01
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Apparently the US Military launched airstrikes against Syrian army elements and Russia is displeased. I don't have a link but it's on BBC. Expect more Russian hackers, I suspect, in retaliation.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:04
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Nessus posted:I imagine the calculus would change if any of these guys' fantasies about striking back against the tyranny of the government started getting put into practice. Well yeah, the we don't want another Waco excuse is one of several reasons why the government treat such things with kid gloves, operating with both hands tied behind their back if you will. Gloves come off, ain't poo poo an M16 or much less a AR-15 is going to do against drone strikes.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Hillary wants to decriminalize pot, not legalize it. wait wait wait. Back up. Is there a difference? Like, it's probably  but seriously, after all the derails and this election in general, I can't tell irony anymore.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Hillary wants to decriminalize pot, not legalize it. Last time I checked, Johnson was totally okay with states criminalizing it, has that changed or is he still a basic "The federal government shouldn't impinge on our rights! (that's the for the state governments to do)" rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Hillary wants to decriminalize pot, not legalize it. She has said she does not want the federal government to interfere with fully legal pot in WA and CO and believes that it should be decided by the states and not by the federal government. That's good enough for me.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:05
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socialsecurity posted:And would it of not worked in that situation? Thing is, it depends on the situation. That church-shooting fucker ended up on a three-day wait list while his gun purchasing application was processed. No answer came before the three days, after which it was up to the retailer whether or not to sell the gun, and of course he sold the gun. It came back later that the shooter had been denied and the ruling hadn't reached the retailer in time. Extended background checks might help in this case -- no sale before the check is through, period. This should never, ever without even a hint of anything be an issue. But the loving NRA and GOP exist, so it's still 'no problem sir here you go good luck with your church massacre'. Until there's D president and D supermajority congress and senate, nothing is ever, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever changing. Ever.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:06
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A Fancy 400 lbs posted:Last time I checked, Johnson was totally okay with states criminalizing it, has that changed or is he still a basic "The federal government shouldn't impinge on our rights! (that's the for the state governments to do)" rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:07
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acejackson42 posted:Thing is, it depends on the situation. That church-shooting fucker ended up on a three-day wait list while his gun purchasing application was processed. No answer came before the three days, after which it was up to the retailer whether or not to sell the gun, and of course he sold the gun. It came back later that the shooter had been denied and the ruling hadn't reached the retailer in time. Specifically talking about the Pulse shooter here though.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:08
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Chokes McGee posted:wait wait wait. Back up. Is there a difference? Yes. If it is decriminalized, you are issued a civil fine for possession, no criminal record or charges. You can still go to jail for trafficking or possessing large amounts with intent to distribute. If it is legalized, you can apply for business license and open a Weed-Mart on the corner of mainstreet to sell it and possess however much you need to run your business.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:12
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Trabisnikof posted:Wait are you implying the war of 1812 was a British Invasion? The greatest crime of 1812 was America's failure to liberate Canadian property from the yoke of crown loyalists.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:15
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socialsecurity posted:Specifically talking about the Pulse shooter here though. From Wikipedia so, obviously, not the greatest source. But according to this info he legally purchased the weapons 7-8 days prior to the shooting. Would that fall under the regulations pushed? Weapons Federal officials said a SIG Sauer MCX semi-automatic rifle and a 9mm Glock 17 semi-automatic pistol were recovered from Mateen's body, along with additional rounds.[10][197][198] Mateen had legally purchased the two guns used in the shooting from a shop in Port St. Lucie: the SIG Sauer MCX rifle on June 4 and the Glock 17 pistol on June 5.[6][199] He and law enforcement were reported to have fired a total of 202 rounds; Mateen reportedly fired at least 110 rounds.[19][200][201][better source needed] From his car, "hundreds of rounds" were found along with a .38 caliber Smith & Wesson revolver; this gun was not used in the shooting.[51][198]
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Sep 17, 2016 21:17
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socialsecurity posted:Specifically talking about the Pulse shooter here though. The 2nd Amendment is a constitutional right, and I believe terrorists have abandoned their constitutional rights, including their right to firearms. No guns for terrorists now, no equal protections under the law for terrorists tomorow.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:17
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yes. Hillary can't really "legalize" pot though. Marijuana is also illegal under state law which she (and Congress) have no authority over. States have always had the ability to ban marijuana, and they will continue to have that ability even if marijuana is removed from the controlled substances list. You would have to pass a constitutional amendment to stop states from being able to ban marijuana (which the vast majority of them have already done). Consider this: prohibition is legal at the state level; the amendment repealing prohibition specifically includes a clause banning the importation of alcohol into states where alcohol is illegal. "Effectively legalized at the federal level" is really the best you can do until state legislatures get their heads out of their asses.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:21
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GreyjoyBastard posted:The logical conclusion is unfettered civilian access to howitzers. The same way you stop a lot of bad guys, a Good Guy with an A-10  HorseRenoir posted:lol Trump is such a dumb motherfucker. Every time it looks like his campaign is starting to get its poo poo together he decides to torch everything for no reason. OTOH our media's pretty awful and the odds they'll forget or stop caring about this birther thing by the debate is pretty high. It's pretty much all on the moderator to bring it up.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:23
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My Imaginary GF posted:The 2nd Amendment is a constitutional right, and I believe terrorists have abandoned their constitutional rights, including their right to firearms. No guns for terrorists now, no equal protections under the law for terrorists tomorow. your frustrated midwestern ambition is still pretty frustrated huh
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Sep 17, 2016 21:24
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Lightning Knight posted:That said if it were ever politically viable I would support full repeal of the 2nd in a heartbeat. I don't think it adds nearly enough to our society to justify the lovely garbage it entails and you don't need to be constitutionally guaranteed guns to be able to own hunting rifles or museum pieces with the proper legislation. I think it should be clarified that you have to be a part of a registered state-regulated militia. Of which the National Guard could be the "public option" version. If you are a military serviceman, a Private Military Contractor, part of some sort of hunting organization, the national guard, or some new official "Militia" sanctions by the state, then you can own a firearm. The basic advantage of the Militia requirement is that they have self regulate and state governments can insist on certain standards. Such as regular psychiatric evaluations, fitness standards, gun safety, and forced socialization; for example you could be forced to go to a range in a group with minorities as a means of forcefully desegregating the yahoos and maybe get some of them outside their comfort zone and be less racist. Also the socialization aspect can make it so that if you start acting strange or anti social or other clear signs of crazy, the other members your forced to interact with can sit down with you and make sure you're alright and there can be a process to move your case along to experts before it gets serious. On a side note, I looked into the process to get my licenses to own and operate a firearm in Quebec because a friend of mine in Ontario might be buying a bunch of WWII Russian rifles in a crate and I want to have one just to collect it as a prop but all of the websites are only in French.  For me though it's just a potentially dangerous toy, so I'm not too upset, it's just an additional hoop.
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Sep 17, 2016 21:27
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a bomb went off at a marine 5k today and a handul of police officers were shot, so expect that to be the new focus
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Sep 17, 2016 21:35
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