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Rhyno posted:Very basically, she's not Alicia. It's a Skrull impersonating her. Of loving course it is. Was Byrne writing F4 at that point ('87)? I've been tempted to read his run since I've read the other famous runs, Lee/Kirby, Waid, Hickman. Skrulls were in the second issue of F4, and they've been loving up the Marvel universe ever since.
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Sep 17, 2016 23:32
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No, at that time it was supposed to actually be Alicia. She was retconned into being Lyja a few years later.
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Sep 17, 2016 23:37
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X-O posted:No, at that time it was supposed to actually be Alicia. She was retconned into being Lyja a few years later. Then my original question still stands. How the gently caress is Johnny Storm dating Alicia Masters?
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Sep 17, 2016 23:57
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I think Ben's still stuck on the Secret Wars planet because he can shift forms freely there. Johnny decides to try dating Alicia because he's a jerk!
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Sep 17, 2016 23:59
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Skwirl posted:Then my original question still stands. How the gently caress is Johnny Storm dating Alicia Masters? They actually got married. They got close because Ben left the planet after Secret Wars.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:03
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SynthOrange posted:I think Ben's still stuck on the Secret Wars planet because he can shift forms freely there. Johnny decides to try dating Alicia because he's a jerk! So that's two relationships hosed up by Secret Wars (Colossus broke up with Kitty because he was in love with a dead alien girl from that planet). Oh and people who care about creepy poo poo in Claremont comics, F4 vs. X-Men ends with a naked ghost Kitty Pryde doing a waltz with the astral projection of a toddler Franklin Richards.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:04
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Skwirl posted:Oh and people who care about creepy poo poo in Claremont comics, Yo, what's up? Skwirl posted:F4 vs. X-Men ends with a naked ghost Kitty Pryde doing a waltz with the astral projection of a toddler Franklin Richards. Uh, I... I gotta go.
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Sep 18, 2016 00:11
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Another X-Men question, How does Kitty come back from the giant phased bullet thing in Breakworld? I switch up my 80's X-Men with Millennial X-Men when I need a break from Claremont's purple prose.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:03
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Skwirl posted:Another X-Men question, How does Kitty come back from the giant phased bullet thing in Breakworld? I switch up my 80's X-Men with Millennial X-Men when I need a break from Claremont's purple prose. Magneto brought her back as a goodwill gesture back during the start of his time as an X-Man.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:05
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SynthOrange posted:Johnny decides to try dating Alicia because he's a jerk! Here's something to chew over - in her first appearance, much is made of Alicia apparently looking almost identical to Sue if you put a blonde wig on her.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:10
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Wheat Loaf posted:Here's something to chew over - in her first appearance, much is made of Alicia apparently looking almost identical to Sue if you put a blonde wig on her. Comics are the best.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:12
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WickedHate posted:Magneto brought her back as a goodwill gesture back during the start of his time as an X-Man. That was a really good time to be reading Uncanny X-Men.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:13
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Lobok posted:I remember one panel of Harold and Ace walking down a tunnel and I feel like the narration said something to the effect of both of them gave Jean-Paul a wide berth and stayed clear. JP basically takes over a part of it and makes it his own workshop space though.
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Sep 18, 2016 03:56
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Has there ever been a good/heroic incarnation of Ultron?
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Sep 18, 2016 05:41
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Could you argue Victor from Runaways?
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Sep 18, 2016 05:44
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Thats not Ultron thats just one of his offspring. I think Ultron single digits wanted to be good then got killed by the next iteration.
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Sep 18, 2016 05:58
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SynthOrange posted:Thats not Ultron thats just one of his offspring. Angsty Vic Mancha snaps back with "I wish my awareness subroutines had never forked from yours!  "
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Sep 18, 2016 06:09
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FilthyImp posted:Is that a philosophical point, assuming he shares the base code with Dadtron? Then murders his nephew
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Sep 18, 2016 06:13
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Schneider Heim posted:Has there ever been a good/heroic incarnation of Ultron? Maybe Ultron 8 from Old Man Logan, in that, he's not out to rule the world, or overthrow humanity. He's basically step-dad to Hawkeye's kid.
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Sep 18, 2016 06:16
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bobkatt013 posted:Then murders his nephew Hey, come on. It was an accident. That makes it manslaughter.
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Sep 18, 2016 06:30
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Ultron 12 was the one who turned nice.
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Sep 18, 2016 14:41
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CzarChasm posted:Maybe Ultron 8 from Old Man Logan, in that, he's not out to rule the world, or overthrow humanity. He's basically step-dad to Hawkeye's kid. That's really cute. Lurdiak posted:Ultron 12 was the one who turned nice. Ooh! I must see this.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:10
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It was West Coast Avengers, so me and my "40 years of Avengers" DVD unfortunately can't help.
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Sep 18, 2016 16:13
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Ultron Mark XII, also known as "Mark". Very pathos-y, because of course he dies saving everybody from another Ultron.
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Sep 19, 2016 00:20
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Senior Woodchuck posted:Ultron Mark XII, also known as "Mark". Very pathos-y, because of course he dies saving everybody from another Ultron. Like Weyoun 6!
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Sep 19, 2016 00:22
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Travis343 posted:I try to ignore Hush and War Games as much as I possibly can, so Harold walked off into the sunset and helped rebuild Gotham City and lived happily ever after, as far as I'm concerned. Poor Cass, though, she lost her BFF to lovely writing, her Bludhaven supporting cast to Infinite Crisis, THEN got Beechened, and right when she was about to finally get a stable status quo as consolation prize, she gets written out of the universe or having ever been Batgirl. Then her budding relationship with Tim gets thrown out the window in Convergence for a lazy writer to go back to Steph angsting over Tim & vice versa because the writer was pretty much stuck in the late 90s. Then she's FINALLY added back to the universe with a new, more traumatic backstory (because of cause it is) and a garbage costume and codename. Actually that reminds me - how are they planning to explain Pre-Flashpoint Earth being in Convergence if the New 52 was actually the 'real' DCU all along?
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Sep 20, 2016 08:20
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Yvonmukluk posted:Actually that reminds me - how are they planning to explain Pre-Flashpoint Earth being in Convergence if the New 52 was actually the 'real' DCU all along? Considering the Superman titles are still running with the idea Superbro died and was replaced with the pre-Flashpoint version, there's probably gonna be an explanation but it'll be too convoluted for me to care.
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Sep 20, 2016 08:25
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Yvonmukluk posted:Poor Cass, though, she lost her BFF to lovely writing, her Bludhaven supporting cast to Infinite Crisis, THEN got Beechened, and right when she was about to finally get a stable status quo as consolation prize, she gets written out of the universe or having ever been Batgirl. Then her budding relationship with Tim gets thrown out the window in Convergence for a lazy writer to go back to Steph angsting over Tim & vice versa because the writer was pretty much stuck in the late 90s. Then she's FINALLY added back to the universe with a new, more traumatic backstory (because of cause it is) and a garbage costume and codename. Whats the garvage new origin? ive read everything in No mans land about her and really confused what they could have tweaked
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Sep 20, 2016 13:40
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What's worse, Orphan or BLACKBAT? (Cassandra really likes Taskmaster's alternate costume.)
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Sep 20, 2016 14:10
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Halloween Jack posted:What's worse, Orphan or BLACKBAT? The Orphan costume is definitely worse. I actually like the name better than Black Bat.
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Sep 20, 2016 14:16
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Sinners Sandwich posted:Whats the garvage new origin? ive read everything in No mans land about her and really confused what they could have tweaked Well, instead of her realising how terrible murder is the first time she kills somebody, instead her father (who seems almost gleefully abusive, whereas Pre-Flashpoint David Cain was still obviously a monstrous human being did genuinely care for his daughter and she seemed to also have some positive feelings for him) instead makes her watch as he murders a whole bunch of people in front of her to traumatise her. Then it turns out she killed Harper Row's mom. Then when she becomes a member of the batfamily she doesn't even get a costume of her own, just literally adds a full-face mask to her previous costume that she wore while still under her father's thumb - and calling herself Orphan - AKA the codename her father was using. Now I'm not calling her origin in and itself 'garbage' - general consensus is that it was fairly well written - but the insertion of over-the-top darkness and murder - her classic origin was hardly sunshine and rainbows, but there's a bit in her series were Cass flashes back to her and her dad staring up at the stars together - whereas the only real bonding I could see for the New52 versions is murder time in the basement. The codename/costume thing is garbage, though. I mean she literally smeared a bat on her face in blood at one point in the story to show she's fully committed to the Batfamily, but never bothers to put one her her costume? What the heck, DC.
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Sep 20, 2016 17:25
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I liked Black Bat as the Batman of China. Maybe it sounds bad rear end in Chinese. Orphan is just the most depressing super hero name. "You have no parents? My planet blew up. I'm Superman, I don't go around calling myself the Last Son of Krypton."
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Sep 20, 2016 17:29
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I don't know if her new origin is actually any darker than the original, you're already dealing with one of the most extreme abusive parents in the history of comics, but they really did lose a great character in the old David Cain. I think having her kill Harper's mom is a great change, especially since it was Batman's fault it happened at all. It makes Cassandra and Harper's origins much more personal to the bat family at the same time,without changing the core of Cassandra's character.
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Sep 20, 2016 17:40
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"Orphan Battle" is my friends' nickname for Batman vs. Superman.
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Sep 20, 2016 17:41
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I'm against any storylines that allow writers to have Batman and his adopted kids endlessly agonize over his dumb rules about killing.
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Sep 20, 2016 17:44
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Halloween Jack posted:I'm against any storylines that allow writers to have Batman and his adopted kids endlessly agonize over his dumb rules about killing. People complain about Red Hood, but the whole "Batman politely looks the other way" thing has been going on since Katana.
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Sep 20, 2016 18:16
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WickedHate posted:People complain about Red Hood, but the whole "Batman politely looks the other way" thing has been going on since Katana. I missed the issues where Katana was Robin, and where she was like a child to Bruce, and where she started wearing a batsymbol on her outfit. (Also the Outsiders sucked, I'll be more than happy to complain about that)
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Sep 20, 2016 20:12
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Travis343 posted:I missed the issues where Katana was Robin, and where she was like a child to Bruce, and where she started wearing a batsymbol on her outfit. There's always Beware the Batpffthahaha.
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Sep 20, 2016 20:17
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WickedHate posted:People complain about Red Hood, but the whole "Batman politely looks the other way" thing has been going on since Katana. In fact in the original Batman and the Outsider's series there is a scene where Batman is trying to interrogate a dude. And the guy is like "But I know the Batman has a code against killing!" And Batman just says "I may have...BUT SHE DOESN'T." Then he points to Katana, and he smiles in this really creepy way that Jim Apero would do with Batman.
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Sep 20, 2016 20:54
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This got me thinking: how many Marvel-616 villains (I haven't read through Secret Wars yet  ) reformed and had it stick?
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Sep 20, 2016 21:02
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