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Nth Doctor posted:XPost from the creepy images thread: There was so little fuselage left attaching the cockpit to the rest of the plane that as the pilots turned the plane round and descended for the emergency landing, the passengers could apparently see the floor buckling up and down, and so spent the descent waiting for the front of the plane to fall off.
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Sep 18, 2016 06:06
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Mummy Brown I also heard accounts of people making butcher's paper out of mummies in Britain. As in, paper that's used to wrap food intended for human consumption... http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/ground-mummies-were-once-ingredient-paint-180950350/?no-ist quote:“Edward scouted [scornfully rejected] the idea of the pigment having anything to do with a mummy — said the name must be only borrowed to describe a particular shade of brown — but when assured that it was actually compounded of real mummy, he left us at once, hastened to the studio, and returning with the only tube he had, insisted on our giving it decent burial there and then. So a hole was bored in the green grass at our feet, and we all watched it put safely in, and the spot was marked by one of the girls planting a daisy root above it” quote:In 1964, the manufacturer who made Mummy Brown reportedly ran out of mummies to grind up. ““We might have a few odd limbs lying around somewhere,” the managing director said, “but not enough to make any more paint. We sold our last complete mummy some years ago for, I think, £3. Perhaps we shouldn't have. We certainly can't get any more.” e: this history of mummy brown is an interesting read so far http://www.artinsociety.com/the-life-and-death-of-mummy-brown.html Vladimir Poutine has a new favorite as of 12:09 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 12:05
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Yeah, it turns out that humanity as a whole is REALLY bad at respecting our past, its artifacts, and the cultures of other peoples. The last time I was up at the Field Museum in Chicago, there were a number of empty display cases in the American Indian section that had signs saying something along the lines of, "Our researchers and archaeologists kind of grave-robbed the artifact that used to be here, and we've made efforts to return it to its original place." Which I thought was a nice touch; both returning the items and acknowledging that it was kind of hosed up.
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Sep 18, 2016 14:09
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Special mention should go to Robert E. Peary who was a vile example of humanity who, in the interest of 'science' hosed over native communities hugely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Peary The most famous of these is probably the theft of the Cape York meteorite. People were rather puzzled with the native Inuit and how they had metal tools such as cutlery etc without having any means or methods to perform metallurgy. Turns out that several Meteorites were in the area and were regarded as sacred and that's where the metal for their tools came from. Cue Robert Peary who stole the largest of these meteorites to put in a museum and actually took several of the natives as curiosities. The most famous of these was Minik Wallace, who had the privilege of seeing his dead Father's skeleton in a Museum after they died and Peary organised a mock funeral for him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minik_Wallace The level of shitheadedness displayed here I'd normally associate with the British but this guy was a red blooded American.
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Sep 18, 2016 14:27
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Purple Aki, scourge of YLLS http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-6d083913-0bfb-4988-8cd8-d126fa6dcff1
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Sep 18, 2016 17:01
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Nckdictator posted:Reposting this. Good loving lord 
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Sep 18, 2016 19:15
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This is why newspapers today suck. Wish I lived back when newspapers entertained as well as informed.
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Sep 18, 2016 20:00
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If you are interested in the history of Antarctic exploration, I wholeheartedly recommend The Worst Journey In the World enough. It's written by Apsley Cherry-Garrard, who accompanied Scott's expedition but not the push to the pole. The eponymous worst journey is not the polar journey, but a trip across the Ross Ice Shelf in the middle of winter (spoiler: it wasn't a fun trip). Vladimir Poutine posted:I also heard accounts of people making butcher's paper out of mummies in Britain. As in, paper that's used to wrap food intended for human consumption...  What special type of insanity leads to the point where you casual mention you're out of corpses to grind up but may still have a few stray limbs stashed away somewhere?
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Sep 18, 2016 20:34
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It's crazy to me that people would do something like that just for a certain shade of paint. At least burning them for fuel makes some sort of sense. How much paint can you really get from a mummy anyway? A single person's weight of paint doesn't seem like enough to build an industry off of, though I guess that explains why mummies are thought of as so rare nowadays. I suppose you'd start to consider them rather unremarkable too if you were constantly tripping over them like people in the past apparently were.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:17
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TorpedoFish posted:If you are interested in the history of Antarctic exploration, I wholeheartedly recommend The Worst Journey In the World enough. It's written by Apsley Cherry-Garrard, who accompanied Scott's expedition but not the push to the pole. The eponymous worst journey is not the polar journey, but a trip across the Ross Ice Shelf in the middle of winter (spoiler: it wasn't a fun trip). A complete and utter lack of empathy for both the dead and the culture they belonged to.
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Sep 18, 2016 21:51
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TorpedoFish posted:If you are interested in the history of Antarctic exploration, I wholeheartedly recommend The Worst Journey In the World enough. It's written by Apsley Cherry-Garrard, who accompanied Scott's expedition but not the push to the pole. The eponymous worst journey is not the polar journey, but a trip across the Ross Ice Shelf in the middle of winter (spoiler: it wasn't a fun trip). I've actually JUST started reading this, I got it at the same time as the Scott book from a charity shop. On a total Polar exploration bender at the moment. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they find from HMS Terror and Erebus now they have both been found.
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Sep 18, 2016 22:04
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Rondette posted:I've actually JUST started reading this, I got it at the same time as the Scott book from a charity shop. On a total Polar exploration bender at the moment. I'd recommend skimming the account of the sea journey down there. Summary: they worked the pumps a lot because they were using a cheap, leaky ship.
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Sep 18, 2016 23:22
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8 Ball posted:Purple Aki, scourge of YLLS Reading this gives me the impression that Aki has severe, untreated OCD. He seems obsessed with bodybuilding and muscles which makes his mind create the compulsion to measure and touch and ask people to demonstrate their strength to him. All he needs is a good therapist and the right meds 
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Sep 19, 2016 00:01
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WickedHate posted:though I guess that explains why mummies are thought of as so rare nowadays. Mummies themselves aren't that rare, honestly - it's just that the more elaborate royal burials are scarce and that's what people think of first when they hear the word mummy. Things like King Tut et all aren't what they used for the paint (though I'm certain some really important historical artifacts were destroyed for it, possibly even royalty.). Mummification in Egypt was the trend for hundreds of years and pretty much everyone had /some/ degree of it done, but most were poor and basically didn't have large amounts of the presumed bitumen (spoiler: probably not actually bitumen) in them. That just made them have to use even /more/ mummies to make the paint. The "bitumen" is the key ingredient here, and frankly it was a bit misunderstood through history. Here's a pretty good write up on it: http://www.artinsociety.com/the-life-and-death-of-mummy-brown.html That Damn Satyr has a new favorite as of 01:12 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 01:06
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That drat Satyr posted:Things like King Tut et all aren't what they used for the paint (though I'm certain some really important historical artifacts were destroyed for it, possibly even royalty.). A lot of important historical artifacts were destroyed with the mummies of common people and animals (Egypt had a whole industry of raising cats, dogs, birds, crocodiles specifically to sacrifice and mummify them). These mummies were wrapped in old rags, while rich peoples' mummies were wrapped in brand new linens. The old rags included clothing and linen books that were preserved along with the mummies. A mummy bought in Alexandria in 1848 and brought to Poland was discovered to have a bunch of writing on her linen wrapping that turned out to be the longest piece of Etruscan text ever found. How many similar texts were ground up for paint or burned in a furnace? Millions, probably.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:23
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I actually had a google out of morbid curiosity to see how much mummy paint was in circulation in the kind of places that might sell antiques/artifacts. It must be pretty rare, though Harvard have a few tubes of it in their pigment museum. But there's a hell of a lot of mummy cloth for sale on the internet. I guess the bulk of it was probably exported out of Egypt before the 1970 UNESCO treaty. I suppose it the kind of thing where it would be very easy to fleece non-experts, not unlike meteorite sales. Whether it be mummy cloth, mummy masks, jewellery, faience beads or pottery, it seems like a lot of Egyptian artifacts for sale are the direct result of grave robbing. This dude is selling a mummified catfish: http://www.ancientresource.com/lots/egyptian/egyptian_mummies.html
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Sep 19, 2016 14:39
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:A lot of important historical artifacts were destroyed with the mummies of common people and animals (Egypt had a whole industry of raising cats, dogs, birds, crocodiles specifically to sacrifice and mummify them). These mummies were wrapped in old rags, while rich peoples' mummies were wrapped in brand new linens. The old rags included clothing and linen books that were preserved along with the mummies. A mummy bought in Alexandria in 1848 and brought to Poland was discovered to have a bunch of writing on her linen wrapping that turned out to be the longest piece of Etruscan text ever found. I don't know if grave robbing for historical knowledge is really all that better, honestly.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:54
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Yeah I don't know that I would want to be in the position of desecrating many thousands of bodies just to get at what they're wrapped in. You're either respectful of the integrity of the remains or you're not, whether you're eating them as medicine or painting with them or whatever.
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Sep 19, 2016 18:06
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Wiggy Marie posted:I would recommend the documentary "Touching the Void," although that one involves two mountain climbers so it's not quite the same exploration. The documentary is based on the book by the same name. I watched the documentary on this and when they get to Simpson slipping and breaking his leg it was the most brutal looking and sounding thing I'd ever heard. Mountain climbing is no joke and it's insane what people will go through during a trek if they manage not to die ascending or descending. This and The Summit were both pretty decent, Summit had a good mix of real footage along with reenactments of some things that happened.
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Sep 19, 2016 22:27
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Can I touch your biceps? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-6d083913-0bfb-4988-8cd8-d126fa6dcff1
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Sep 19, 2016 22:45
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TorpedoFish posted:If you are interested in the history of Antarctic exploration, I wholeheartedly recommend The Worst Journey In the World enough. It's written by Apsley Cherry-Garrard, who accompanied Scott's expedition but not the push to the pole. The eponymous worst journey is not the polar journey, but a trip across the Ross Ice Shelf in the middle of winter (spoiler: it wasn't a fun trip).
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Sep 19, 2016 23:29
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Hoover Dam posted:Can I touch your biceps? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-6d083913-0bfb-4988-8cd8-d126fa6dcff1 Only if you read the entire page before posting.
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Sep 19, 2016 23:33
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On mountain - climbing chat, Sherpa is a really great Everest documentary. Not so much unnerving except for in that "oh god nature" kind of way.
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Sep 20, 2016 01:15
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After reading about reinhold messner it makes people look kind of foolish dying trying to scale these mountains when this rear end in a top hat walks up them in tennis shoes and those nylon pants people used to wear. Him and his buddy climbed mount everest without oxygen in a day. A witness said it looked like he ran up the mountain, which isnt much of an exaggeration he would typically jog most of the way up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhold_Messner
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Sep 20, 2016 01:27
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A Pinball Wizard posted:Only if you read the entire page before posting. oh goddamnit
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Sep 20, 2016 02:12
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Jack Gladney posted:Yeah I don't know that I would want to be in the position of desecrating many thousands of bodies just to get at what they're wrapped in. You're either respectful of the integrity of the remains or you're not, whether you're eating them as medicine or painting with them or whatever. I'd be fine with desecrating ancient tombs/burial grounds/whatever so long as the artifacts recovered are studied and put in a museum. Dudes dead. His whole family is dead. Let's learn some poo poo. Now the keeping dead Eskimos in museums even though their family is begging to get the body back...that's not so good.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:38
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Solice Kirsk posted:I'd be fine with desecrating ancient tombs/burial grounds/whatever so long as the artifacts recovered are studied and put in a museum. Dudes dead. His whole family is dead. Let's learn some poo poo. Now the keeping dead Eskimos in museums even though their family is begging to get the body back...that's not so good. Let the white people learn some poo poo, jeez the dude is dead right?  Just because the family is dead or not doesn't matter, the intention is that they stay that way without an expiry date.
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Sep 20, 2016 03:05
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WickedHate posted:Let the white people learn some poo poo, jeez the dude is dead right? Solice Kirsk posted:I'd be fine with desecrating ancient tombs/burial grounds/whatever so long as the artifacts recovered are studied and put in a museum. Dudes dead. His whole family is dead. Let's learn some poo poo. Now the keeping dead Eskimos in museums even though their family is begging to get the body back...that's not so good. Ehh, Its really highly dependent on where you are in the world and culture norms. In Spain burial lots get rented out for like 30 years and then the bodies get swapped for new ones. I agree that respect for the dead should be among an archaeologist highest priority and in many cases researchers try to do the best they can, there were a couple of researchers in Egypt who did some work on a tomb and some mummies and after they were done they replaced/repaired the broken caskets and sealed the tomb better then they found it. However when poo poo like tombs are found they should either be sealed up and guarded tight as gently caress by trusted and and well paid guards or they need to be researched so the information is not lost when the looters come, and they will come if they haven't already. Guess which one both looks better from a publicity standpoint and is both financially and logistically feasible. Archaeological speaking its better to keep poo poo in the ground unless you really need to pull it up or you have a specific,targeted research question that the site will address, along with a detailed excavation plan which you will follow (I have never seen one be followed 100%, poo poo always happens) that will allow you attempt to find answers with least amount of disruption possible to the site. Telsa Cola has a new favorite as of 05:25 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 05:03
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WickedHate posted:Let the white people learn some poo poo, jeez the dude is dead right? Way to bring race into it I guess. And what's your plan for cities like London or Paris where they discover remains when building poo poo? Just stop everything and declare that square of ground sacrosanct? Raising tombs and pulverizing mummies to make one color of paint is pretty lovely, but pretending like life needs to honor the dead forever is childish.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:18
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Solice Kirsk posted:Way to bring race into it I guess. And what's your plan for cities like London or Paris where they discover remains when building poo poo? Just stop everything and declare that square of ground sacrosanct? Raising tombs and pulverizing mummies to make one color of paint is pretty lovely, but pretending like life needs to honor the dead forever is childish. I honestly don't really care that much, what irks me is "wait until everyone who would care about that particular person is dead", which just seems like a dumb loophole. Either respect the sanctity of corpses or don't. It's not like dating after your spouse dies, there's not a period where it suddenly becomes appropriate.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:22
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WickedHate posted:I honestly don't really care that much, what irks me is "wait until everyone who would care about that particular person is dead", which just seems like a dumb loophole. Either respect the sanctity of corpses or don't. It's not like dating after your spouse dies, there's not a period where it suddenly becomes appropriate. That's a loving terrible analogy.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:32
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Well the dead only really matter to their living relatives or, in enough time, archeologists. I'd say the one that outnumbers the other has the better claim. I'm with you though, I don't really care either. I'd water treat my deck with powdered mummy if it meant never needing to stain or replace it again.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:36
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Avenging_Mikon posted:That's a loving terrible analogy. I'm just saying, one should pick a side. Condemning grave robbing in some cases but declaring that it's now okay to hang a body up for gawking at in a museum is silly. At least paint and fuel are tangible practical benefits on some scale, getting your paws all over a corpse because you want to figure out how they did their taxes in ancient Scandinavia is essentially pointless. Solice Kirsk posted:Well the dead only really matter to their living relatives or, in enough time, archeologists. I'd say the one that outnumbers the other has the better claim. I'm with you though, I don't really care either. I'd water treat my deck with powdered mummy if it meant never needing to stain or replace it again. Ah, cool, I'm glad we're not all tensely arguing and stuff. Got nervous for a bit there.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:38
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wickedhate cares very deeply for the sanctity of the dead, and also making more dead people via vigilante murder
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Sep 20, 2016 05:41
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WickedHate posted:I'm just saying, one should pick a side. Condemning grave robbing in some cases but declaring that it's now okay to hang a body up for gawking at in a museum is silly. At least paint and fuel are tangible practical benefits on some scale, getting your paws all over a corpse because you want to figure out how they did their taxes in ancient Scandinavia is essentially pointless. Please tell me how the quest to further understand the past of societies and humankind is pointless. Also its pretty rare for bodies which are being researched to be put up on display, also its pretty rare for new bodies in general to be put up for display unless it was donated to science or something along those lines. Hell, there has been a huge upswing in museums returning displayed human remains to their place of origin because they had no use.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:45
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Telsa Cola posted:Please tell me how the quest to further understand the past of societies and humankind is pointless. So is NASA. Telsa Cola posted:Hell, there has been a huge upswing in museums returning displayed human remains to their place of origin because they had no use. Great, glad they agree. Content: The Monster with 21 Faces was never caught, and the guy in charge of solving the case set himself on fire in grief. WickedHate has a new favorite as of 05:55 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 05:46
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WickedHate posted:So is NASA. Ill be honest I'm not sure I understand your first point. The point was that while those remains were useless for nothing other then shock value and were collected when that was the main appeal, they have no academic use and should and were repatriated. However a body that is discovered that may have useful information either associated with it or in it that may inform us about any number of things should either be protected until such a time where the research can be preformed or researched immediately. This is assuming there is no relevant relatives or culture group that lays claim to it.
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Sep 20, 2016 05:55
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Somewhat related to the discussion... http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20160906-plague-pits-the-london-underground-and-crossrail
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Sep 20, 2016 06:22
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What a terrible and garbage discussion to be a part of. I hereby give all future generations my permission to use my corpse and/or my mummy to paint your paintings with.
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Sep 20, 2016 07:43
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I believe if was Mary Beard who made the point that with a lot of burial rites part of the point is to be remembered by future generations, and there are few better ways, particularly in ancient cultures where there may be no future generations extant, than for their life and culture to be learned about and taught. The various Bog Bodies are a good example. Prior to their discovery they were literally unknown but now we do have some understanding of their life and how they may have lived etc.
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Sep 20, 2016 11:01
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