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Zore posted:...what? The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. Don't spread that poo poo.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:20
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mabels big day posted:I cannot think of anything I hate in this world more than calling a Pokemon move "degenerate". hosed up
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Sep 21, 2016 02:21
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. ok sure.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. Its been popular for decades or centuries, but if the Alt-Right fuckheads are associating themselves with it strongly I'll stop using it. I don't normally read that stuff. I was unaware.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. it's also used not uncommonly when talking about game balance and how it informs the strategies players make for awhile now don't stop yourself from using a perfectly innocuous word just because some dipshits also use that word
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Sep 21, 2016 02:25
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"degenerate" comes from greek, meaning "un-generate" for instance, when you drop a cube of sugar in water it degenerates into sugar water, which ants love
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Sep 21, 2016 02:27
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. Just because angry white people use a word doesn't mean you aren't allowed to either. This is a dumb thing to fixate on.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:28
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Zore posted:I feel like going by BST gives some pokemon a huge advantage over others though. Pokemon with good stat allocation (Scizor for example) are worth less than things like Goodra, Metagross or Hydreigon. Or more blatantly Articuno, Moltres or Entei. Instead of BST someone should clearly just come up with straight up tabletop wargame point allocation rules for teams. Like a magikarp would be a single point, while a good legendary would be something like 15 or so. Add in modifiers for certain moves/ movesets. But obviously coming up with a good set of point totals for 700+ pokemon and moves is way more work than just using what currently exists and mostly fine.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:33
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. your posting is degenerate
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Sep 21, 2016 02:39
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Zore posted:I feel like going by BST gives some pokemon a huge advantage over others though. Pokemon with good stat allocation (Scizor for example) are worth less than things like Goodra, Metagross or Hydreigon. Or more blatantly Articuno, Moltres or Entei. However, all the ones you have listed are psuedo-legendaries. In the BST method I currently play, they wouldn't even be allowed on your team. We usually set a max BST for a pokemon between 400- 555 to exclude psuedo/legendaries but still include Arcanine for example. Setting that number lower makes for some interesting things. Remember, this is just restricting BST not moves, abilities or movesets. So things that have lower BST could end up being more competative bc of their specific traits that would normally ban them in other rule sets. For the BST budget style- sure the advantage could be a thing to worry about. But setting up that method would require a lot of research of what would make an appropriate BST budget that could give a person a well balanced 6 poke team or an evenly matched 4 poke team. cancerianmoth fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 02:42
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cancerianmoth posted:However, all the ones you have listed are psuedo-legendaries. In the BST method I currently play, they wouldn't even be allowed on your team. We usually set a max BST for a pokemon between 400- 555 to exclude psuedo/legendaries but still include Arcanine for example. For the BST budget style- sure the advantage could be a thing to worry about. But setting up that method would require a lot of research of what would make an appropriate BST budget that could give a person a well balanced 6 poke team or an evenly matched 4 poke team. Sort of my point though, Scizor is a stronger and way better pokemon than any of the other six listed and it has 500 BST. That isn't even getting into things like Speed-Boost Blaziken, Protean Greninja etc. To each their own I guess, but about half the pseudos are way worse than those dudes. And a ton of the 600 BST 'cute' legendaries and 580 trios are as well.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:49
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Zore posted:Sort of my point though, Scizor is a stronger and way better pokemon than any of the other six listed and it has 500 BST. The whole point is to have fun with pokemon that aren't usually used. Blaziken, Greninja and Scizor a concern? Then lower the BST so they can't be used, which would be under 500 in order to exclude Scizor from being picked. There aren't that many pokemon over 500 as there are under so there is still ALOT to choose from and have fun with.
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Sep 21, 2016 02:57
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Can I ask the dumbest question ever: why is there a scene (or scenes) with rules that differ from the official vgc rules? Isn't everyone's goal to win the actual vgc? Aside from just generally loving around I mean It seems like the Smogon folks have invested a lot of time into their unique rules and tiers but isn't that like my friends and I adding a 4 point line to our pickup basketball games? That's fine in and of itself but the real game sets the real rules
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Sep 21, 2016 03:01
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Using base stat total as the basis for determining a budget is a bad move, because it means people will harm, rather than help, the usage of Slaking. Which is obviously bad, because Slaking owns. A good way to evaluate a format is whether it makes Slaking more viable or less viable. If Slaking is more viable, then the format is an improvement.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:03
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Waffles Inc. posted:Can I ask the dumbest question ever: why is there a scene (or scenes) with rules that differ from the official vgc rules? Isn't everyone's goal to win the actual vgc? Aside from just generally loving around I mean People play unofficial formats for their own sake, because they think that the result is more balanced and therefore more interesting.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:03
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Waffles Inc. posted:Can I ask the dumbest question ever: why is there a scene (or scenes) with rules that differ from the official vgc rules? Isn't everyone's goal to win the actual vgc? Aside from just generally loving around I mean VGC is balanced normally around doubles isn't it? And some folks despise doubles is my guess. I'm terrible at them personally. but want to try. I also really like classic 6v6 singles which is why when I play with my buddies the only rule we set is the BST to encourage creative teams and strategies usually banned or unheard of anywhere else. Like one time, I got swept hard by a Vespiqueen tank/stall startegy but on paper my team seemed stronger.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:05
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Waffles Inc. posted:Can I ask the dumbest question ever: why is there a scene (or scenes) with rules that differ from the official vgc rules? Isn't everyone's goal to win the actual vgc? Aside from just generally loving around I mean iirc the online simulator scene is older than the official vgc tournies, it makes sense that it wouldn't go away especially when vgc is all about doubles and for better or worse that plays alot differently than the singles that the sim scene had gotten used to
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Sep 21, 2016 03:06
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Smogon should enforce the Item Clause to encourage diversity and creativity in builds.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:08
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Bongo Bill posted:People play unofficial formats for their own sake, because they think that the result is more balanced and therefore more interesting. Is there a lot of crossover? Like would the best Showdown or Smogon players roll over a VGC or do the different rule sets impact the meta to such a big degree that things have to be unlearned? I'm just fascinated by how deep and old the online battle communities are and how much orthodoxy there is and the impact that the vgc scene is having on it
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Sep 21, 2016 03:08
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i have fond memories of being like, 10 and trying(and failing) to understand how the irc chatbot that simulated gsc battles worked
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Sep 21, 2016 03:08
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Bongo Bill posted:Smogon should enforce the Item Clause to encourage diversity and creativity in builds. I'm gonna put leftovers on everything and you can't stop me.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:10
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oddium posted:"degenerate" comes from greek, meaning "un-generate" One weird tip that Durants love
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Sep 21, 2016 03:11
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The term 'degenerate' for thing I don't like is something made popular by weirdo alt right creepers and /pol/ posters usually aimed at People Who Are Not Straight White Dudes. Paranoid much?
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Sep 21, 2016 03:13
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like yeah using a prankster dedenne with thundurus' stats would be extremely my jam, but dedenne is bad so i'm not going to put it on a team. when cool and usable line up on a pokemon... 😚👌
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Sep 21, 2016 03:14
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z-moves incite degenerate gameplay
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Sep 21, 2016 03:17
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Z-Moves are going to change things up so much that Smogon should just throw everything out and reevaluate every pokemon from scratch. This is my prediction.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:19
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In Therian Forme, Thundurus seems to be based on a reptile, most likely a snake or dragon. It may also draw inspiration from the Azure Dragon and/or Black Tortoise of the Chinese Four Symbols constellation, or from Quetzalcoatl, a god from the Aztec mythology that resembles a feathered serpent. bulbapedia what. this is almost worse than the norse mythology zygarde stuff
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Sep 21, 2016 03:24
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Improbable Lobster posted:It's not like Haze or Topsy Turvy or other moves that gently caress with stat boosts don't exist Well, in the current meta the issue is that Speed Boost Ninjask or Blaziken can Swords Dance, Protect, and Baton Pass +2 Speed, +2 Attack to Dragonite or Garchomp and rip your team in half by virtue of Focus Sash guaranteeing that no amount of Flamethrower/Earthquake can stop them. Eevee has the flaw of not being able to wear a Focus Sash (it's going to have a Z Crystal), and being pretty frail in the first place. A strong attack and a priority attack (if even two) will probably take it out fast.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:36
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Waffles Inc. posted:Is there a lot of crossover? Like would the best Showdown or Smogon players roll over a VGC or do the different rule sets impact the meta to such a big degree that things have to be unlearned? A lot of poo poo that is flat out useless in Singles is excellent in Doubles, and vice versa. However, there is definitely some crossover. Gengar is Gengar is Gengar, so he's always good. He's got a good movepool, good typing, good ability, is strong, and sits in an excellent speed tier. All of that is still true in Doubles, PLUS he avoids a lot of his partner's multi-opponent hitting moves by virtue of his type and ability, etc. Conversely, and this is just me talking out of my rear end, something like Skarmory is excellent in Singles because Singles is built around a lot of switching out and Skarmory is excellent at laying down hazards to take advantage of switching and then soaking up damage and Roosting it away, it's probably pretty useless in Doubles. Finally, you would never see a Pachirisu on a serious OU Singles team, but there was an entire strategy devoted to it in Doubles that was awesome. Personally, I think Singles and Doubles are both cool, but I prefer Singles probably because 99% of the in-game battles are Singles, 99% of the battles in the anime and manga are Singles, etc. Nanigans fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 03:37
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why don't the genies learn wish
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Sep 21, 2016 03:37
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i like triple battles because i made a very stupid team based around keeping one pokemon in sky drop forever that flat out doesn't even work against pokemon that are too heavy and it's very funny when it all comes together
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Sep 21, 2016 03:39
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Classtoise posted:Well, in the current meta the issue is that Speed Boost Ninjask or Blaziken can Swords Dance, Protect, and Baton Pass +2 Speed, +2 Attack to Dragonite or Garchomp and rip your team in half by virtue of Focus Sash guaranteeing that no amount of Flamethrower/Earthquake can stop them. neither of those pokemon are existent in the meta
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Sep 21, 2016 03:41
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sharrrk posted:why don't the genies learn wish People make wishes to them, they don't make wishes themselves, that'd be breaking the rules. You didn't see Genie in Aladdlin wish for his own freedom.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:42
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Waffles Inc. posted:Is there a lot of crossover? Like would the best Showdown or Smogon players roll over a VGC or do the different rule sets impact the meta to such a big degree that things have to be unlearned? iirc someone here said that the nugget brigade people (the largest online VGC group) sometimes play with smogon people and just, like, aren't that great comparatively. but that's secondhand knowledge so it might be meaningless. the reason people play different metagames is because that's what they enjoy. there's basically zero money in pokemon so people who play do it because they enjoy playing the thing. it's why people play non-esports comp games. it's like asking why people play old street fighter games rather than the most recent one
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Sep 21, 2016 03:41
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sharrrk posted:why don't the genies learn wish why doesn't hoopa
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Sep 21, 2016 03:45
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Countblanc posted:iirc someone here said that the nugget brigade people (the largest online VGC group) sometimes play with smogon people and just, like, aren't that great comparatively. but that's secondhand knowledge so it might be meaningless.  what she said. Also, I think it's "Nugget Bridge" like the location in Kanto.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:45
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Reinanigans posted:Personally, I think Singles and Doubles are both cool, but I prefer Singles probably because 99% of the in-game battles are Singles, 99% of the battles in the anime and manga are Singles, etc. To be honest, this is probably one of the biggest reasons why there is a competitive scene around singles. Despite Double battles being planned to be in the games since the first gen, it couldn't be implemented until Gen III, and even then that format is barely used in the single player campaigns. It's a bit easier to make the transition since you know what happens in singles. Countblanc posted:iirc someone here said that the nugget brigade people (the largest online VGC group) sometimes play with smogon people and just, like, aren't that great comparatively. but that's secondhand knowledge so it might be meaningless. Also, this.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:46
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lol at the people who didn't put over a hundred hours in both Colosseum and XD and therefore have a deep understanding and respect for Double Battling.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:48
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oddium posted:why doesn't hoopa i don't know
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Sep 21, 2016 03:55
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Doubles was a mistake
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Sep 21, 2016 03:58
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