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Fried Watermelon posted:Any advanced math beyond multiplication and division you'd have to take mathematics courses outside of the teaching degree program and due to the strict timelines of required courses a lot of teachers are not going to take Calc 101 or Linear Algebra 101. This is not advanced math, it's being taught to elementary students.
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Sep 21, 2016 15:25
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Unfortunately topical: Every last school and university in PEI has been closed due to some sort of threat
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Sep 21, 2016 15:28
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CF is currently deploying to defend the strategic potato reserve.
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Sep 21, 2016 15:29
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Fried Watermelon posted:Unfortunately my advice is teach your own children mathematics rather than rely on a school system that by design is not incentivised to teach proper math skills to people. That's pretty hard too, the Discovery based curriculum isn't the same as when we went to school. Some reasonably intelligent parents of older kids I know have been surprised when they went to help their kids with grade 4 math homework and they had no frigging clue what was going on. quote:When mother of two Anna Stokke began digging into the elementary school math curriculum last year, she was flabbergasted by what she found. Instead of teaching the standard methods of arithmetic, the emphasis had shifted to a wide range of alternative methods, such as using grids, blocks, or strips of paper to multiply. Stokke is a professor of math at the University of Winnipeg, but even she found the methods confusing. “It was shocking,” she recalls. “We’re talking about adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing. It shouldn’t be so overly complicated that even parents can’t understand it. It’s absolutely ridiculous.” Ontario's solution has been to double down on the discovery curriculum and mandate that innumerate teachers teach a broken math curriculum but, starting now, for a minimum 60 minutes a day (which most of them were already doing). I honestly don't know if the curriculum is actually great but our teachers aren't qualified or have enough time to teach it properly or if the curriculum just seemed like a good idea but actually doesn't work. Make up your own drat mind. Here's an article about what to change, https://www.cdhowe.org/sites/default/files/attachments/research_papers/mixed/commentary_427.pdf I can't really find much good evidence that's not touchyfeely in support of discovery (even to me, it intuitively feels like exploring the concepts should be superior to rote memorization) so here's an article, Memorizing the times tables is damaging to your child's mind, says discovery math expert
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Sep 21, 2016 16:24
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Ikantski posted:I can't really find much good evidence that's not touchyfeely in support of discovery (even to me, it intuitively feels like exploring the concepts should be superior to rote memorization) so here's an article, Memorizing the times tables is damaging to your child's mind, says discovery math expert The data on discovery learning will probably always be touchy-feely because that's what the whole system is designed to be; hands off enough so that everyone's individual system of learning has space to be put into practice. It'd be like trying to find trends on fingerprint sworls. However, you are right that it is superior to rote learning, particularly for math and science as so much of that data is become externalised to the human brain and indeed needs to be so that we can deal with more sophisticated concepts. But discovery learning doesn't mean write a textbook that a teacher can't understand and it certainly doesn't mean that you can put someone who doesn't understand sophisticated math concepts in charging of teaching the loving subject, in fact much the opposite; as the learning becomes more conceptual and meta-cognitive (which is probably what the future of developing technology will require) you actually need teachers who are better at STEM than the previous generations to allow for that space of discovery while still adhering to learning outcomes. Shocking, I know, but I can't say I'm particularly surprised the Ontario school system did A Stupid Thing.
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Sep 21, 2016 16:38
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If you can't understand the concepts that educators are trying to get across with "Discovery Math" after making an earnest attempt to figure it out, chances are you're either poo poo at math, poo poo at reading, or a closed-minded idiot who thinks nothing should ever change. Maybe all three at the same time! I don't think you need to "teach" times tables, either. Remembering the results of single-digit numbers multiplied by other single digit numbers is something that will happen naturally as you practice the actually-useful skills that require you to know/find those results.
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Sep 21, 2016 16:46
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What? Are you serious?
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Sep 21, 2016 17:06
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Skizzzer posted:What? Are you serious? I see that you're new here.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:12
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I went to Burnaby Central secondary and was lucky enough to be taught by math and chemistry teachers who had masters degrees. What I'm saying is lol gently caress the public system today I sure as gently caress am not condemning my kid to this dumpster fire ~for the sake of the greater good~
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Sep 21, 2016 17:17
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PT6A posted:If you can't understand the concepts that educators are trying to get across with "Discovery Math" after making an earnest attempt to figure it out, chances are you're either poo poo at math, poo poo at reading, or a closed-minded idiot who thinks nothing should ever change. Maybe all three at the same time! The times table is literally the most basic way of practicing multiplication you dolt. We underfund and overload the poo poo out of our public education system while constantly treating teachers like they are human garbage, yet are somehow shocked when we find out our declining intelligence leads to stupid ideas like conspiracy theories and anti-vax. 
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Sep 21, 2016 17:21
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I had a lot of trouble with math in school, to the point where I assumed I had some sort of learning disability in that area. The teachers would always give me poo poo for "not applying myself" no matter how hard I tried (I had a loving tutor) because they knew I could read and write circles around the other kids. But now I'm wondering if it's because all my teachers were know nothing hacks that couldn't educate their way out of a wet paper bag
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Sep 21, 2016 17:26
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Rote memorization of times tables is a lovely method of math instruction, just like focusing on memorizing long vocabulary lists is a lovely method of teaching a language. You may need it just a little bit at the beginning, but it should be regarded as a means to a more interesting end. Focusing obsessively on Mad Minutes, or whatever the gently caress, is pointless and teaches no one anything useful or interesting about mathematics. EDIT: I have no doubt the implementation of what should be a good curriculum is being mishandled by idiots, and taught poorly by teachers who don't understand it well enough to teach it effectively, but that's hardly the fault of Discovery Math. I thought posting about what should be a fairly uncontroversial topic would be safe enough to avoid people having a freakout, but I guess not. I think I'll go now. PT6A fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 17:32
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Tighclops posted:I had a lot of trouble with math in school, to the point where I assumed I had some sort of learning disability in that area. The teachers would always give me poo poo for "not applying myself" no matter how hard I tried (I had a loving tutor) because they knew I could read and write circles around the other kids. Maybe you were just a slow and/or bad student, too.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:32
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namaste faggots posted:I went to Burnaby Central secondary and was lucky enough to be taught by math and chemistry teachers who had masters degrees. What I'm saying is lol gently caress the public system today I sure as gently caress am not condemning my kid to this dumpster fire ~for the sake of the greater good~ I see private school marketing continues to be pretty successful.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:38
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PT6A posted:Rote memorization of times tables is a lovely method of math instruction, just like focusing on memorizing long vocabulary lists is a lovely method of teaching a language. You may need it just a little bit at the beginning, but it should be regarded as a means to a more interesting end. Focusing obsessively on Mad Minutes, or whatever the gently caress, is pointless and teaches no one anything useful or interesting about mathematics. Rote memorization of times tables, as well as learning methods of long division and basic algebra, are some of the most practically useful things to take out of math class. IMO.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:41
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I assume I have ikantski to thank for the new av?Dreylad posted:I see private school marketing continues to be pretty successful. Ive already had this discussion with him and he will fully admit that the education isnt why he likes private schools (its usually just as bad or worse), he likes the social networking that comes from being around other rich peoples hellspawn.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:41
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PT6A posted:Rote memorization of times tables is a lovely method of math instruction, just like focusing on memorizing long vocabulary lists is a lovely method of teaching a language. You may need it just a little bit at the beginning, but it should be regarded as a means to a more interesting end. Focusing obsessively on Mad Minutes, or whatever the gently caress, is pointless and teaches no one anything useful or interesting about mathematics. You can't learn anything useful or interesting about mathematics until you're good enough at arithmetic to be able to do it without a pencil, which means you have to practice and that means drills. Understanding why 7x9=63 and knowing that 63 is a multiple of 3, 9 and 7 by looking at it should be part of the program too, but if you don't do something a lot you're going to suck at it and also at everything that follows. It sucks how kids can talk themselves into thinking they're bad at math once, and then they're proven right year after year because today's lesson makes no sense without last year's concepts because the teacher isn't going to stop a class on fraction-to-decimal conversions to teach a kid how division works.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:45
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Dreylad posted:I see private school marketing continues to be pretty successful. You obviously don't live in BC, where public funding for elementary and high school education has fallen from 3.3% of GDP to a projected 2.5% between 2001 and 2016. BC now has the second-lowest level of public education funding in the country, nearly $1,000 per student below the national average, but hundreds of millions of public taxpayer dollars are being used to subsidize private schools. McGavin fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 17:51
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McGavin posted:You obviously don't live in BC where public funding for elementary and high school education has fallen from 3.3% of GDP to a projected 2.5% between 2001 and 2016. BC now has the second-lowest level of public education funding the country, nearly $1,000 per student below the national average, but hundreds of millions of public taxpayer dollars are being used to subsidize private schools. Let's not let facts get in the way of the argument that private schools are better because reasons.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:53
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Mozi posted:Rote memorization of times tables, as well as learning methods of long division and basic algebra, are some of the most practically useful things to take out of math class. IMO. And having a large vocabulary is one of the most practically useful things to take out of English class, but if you were taught simply by being told to memorize word definitions from a dictionary, I would feel very sorry for you. Memorization of basic arithmetic should be a natural consequence of having done enough math that it becomes like second nature, just like having a large vocabulary comes naturally from reading a lot. The fact that Discovery Math attempts to actually describe what multiplication is, and other ways in which it can be expressed, is far more useful than teaching the results of simple operations that can be looked up in an 8x8 table until they're memorized. Insisting on memorization of things that can be trivially consulted would be like insisting that a physics student memorize all formulas before applying any of them, instead of just providing a formula sheet. Re: long division, look at how many people can't remember how to do it. Why? Because they don't understand the concepts that the process of long division is based on, they only know there's a set of steps that must be followed. But I'm sure all the researchers who've repeatedly endorsed Discovery Math were probably just looking to gently caress over kids' educations and confuse parents and teachers.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:58
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Furnaceface posted:I assume I have ikantski to thank for the new av? Not me, I don't get it. It's a play on a stupid thing PT6A said a long time ago? I see the math thing like learning to play guitar. You can teach a kid how a guitar works, the physics behind it all, let them experiment by twanging the strings and it'll be interesting and they'll be engaged maybe. But if they're ever going to make a crowd in Barrie lose their mind by belting out some Spirit of the Radio, that kid's going to need to practice the basics for hundreds of hours. Life is pain kids. Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 17:58
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Furnaceface posted:Ive already had this discussion with him and he will fully admit that the education isnt why he likes private schools (its usually just as bad or worse), he likes the social networking that comes from being around other rich peoples hellspawn. For sure, networking through private schools will give your kid a huge advantage especially if you can afford to send them out on all their European ski trips. Not going to disagree with that at all.
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Sep 21, 2016 17:59
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Fluffy Chainsaw posted:Unfortunately topical: quote:"Our recommendation is that the schools — staff know the schools better than anybody — that staff go through every area of the school," he said, "and we want to know if they noted anything suspicious or out of the ordinary over the past few days and then as they go through the school, are there any suspicious packages or anything else that seems out of place in the school, and if that's the case, they should call the RCMP, and at that point we'd likely look at bringing in bomb disposal people. This doesn't exactly seem rigorous to me, to volunteer your teachers into doing your bomb-hunting for you Brannock fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 18:08
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PT6A posted:And having a large vocabulary is one of the most practically useful things to take out of English class, but if you were taught simply by being told to memorize word definitions from a dictionary, I would feel very sorry for you. Memorization of basic arithmetic should be a natural consequence of having done enough math that it becomes like second nature, just like having a large vocabulary comes naturally from reading a lot. Did you never try to learn another language? Rote memorization of verb conjugation is a part of it. You need to be able to both understand the rules and access information quickly, and rote memorization helps with the latter.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:23
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Lol at all you "rote is bad" mouth breathers Yeah OK no wonder you couldn't factor a polynomial or do geometry
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Sep 21, 2016 18:27
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Has anyone here ever taken a 4th year optics course because holy poo poo will you run away screaming
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Sep 21, 2016 18:29
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CLAM DOWN posted:Maybe you were just a slow and/or bad student, too. I did really well in other subjects for many years until I finally gave up after one too many "here's four hours of homework we're not going to explain how to do on top of the stuff during the day we deliberately didn't give you any time to finish! Also it's worth a shitload of your final grade cancelling out most of your efforts lolololol hey kid why do you hate 'learning' now". There were other kids in my classes with similar or the same issues so I know it wasn't just me.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:31
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Jordan7hm posted:Did you never try to learn another language? Rote memorization of verb conjugation is a part of it. You need to be able to both understand the rules and access information quickly, and rote memorization helps with the latter. Not only did I try to learn another language, I succeeded! Guess what? Having a conversation with someone, or reading a passage of text, is a better way of reinforcing verb conjugations than endlessly drilling the verb forms out of context. Even basic applied questions, of the form: "which is the correct translation of this sentence?" are superior to filling out those loving verb form charts over and over again. Foreign language instruction is also very poo poo in this country, again because the current pedagogical approach is too memorization-based, and it ends up resulting in people that get fantastic results on irrelevant exams, yet have very little ability to communicate effectively in either written or spoken form.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:32
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Dreylad posted:I see private school marketing continues to be pretty successful. I don't know why someone would brag about sending their child to be taught at a private school by underpaid teachers that aren't even good enough (lol) to get a much better job at a public school
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Sep 21, 2016 18:37
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namaste faggots posted:Lol at all you "rote is bad" mouth breathers I believe "McGill graduate" is the preferred nomenclature
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Sep 21, 2016 18:41
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A Typical Goon posted:I don't know why someone would brag about sending their child to be taught at a private school by underpaid teachers that aren't even good enough (lol) to get a much better job at a public school I suspect that his one crazy trick is to send them to a good private school.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:47
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My girlfriend of 7 years hates public school and wants to homeschool our future kids if it's affordable. This isn't religiously motivated at all- we're both atheists- nor does she rage against common core or sex ed or anything of the sort, but nonetheless has a very poor opinion of public schools. I'm not sure what benefit homeschooling would provide over public schools that couldn't be solved by investing in our education system more (to reduce class sizes) and actually enforcing zero tolerance for bullying policies. I outright rejected the idea of sending our future kids to private school. Thankfully we agree on that point.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:54
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Disadvantaging your kid just so you can claim you pursued "fairness" is an amazing thing to do
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Sep 21, 2016 18:58
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Do you mean by rejecting private school? Well, that's for practical purposes such as simple cost of investment too. It's not like either of us are on the trajectory to Rich Town, USA. Plus, the idea that quality education (particularly for minors) ought to be reserved for people with the ability to pay is fundamentally abhorrent to me.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:00
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It's not that rote is "bad" necessarily, it's just not an exhaustive education solution. We all pretty much learned the alphabet and our first words of another language through rote but were able to expand upon our knowledge of language based on context and experimentation. Which is what we'll need to do with STEM concepts so that we don't take up valuable space in our brains trying to remember the periodic table exactly, especially when that knowledge is right at our fingertips with vastly more accuracy. JFC, maybe y'all needed less STEM to learn how not to take things so literally and get stuck on weird details. Brannock posted:Disadvantaging your kid just so you can claim you pursued "fairness" is an amazing thing to do What has led you to believe that homeschooled kids don't have to meet provincial education standards?
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Sep 21, 2016 19:01
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I was homeschooled out of necessity - I partially grew up in a rural third world shithole and loving lol if you are loving dumb enough to think it's beneficial. Let's just be real here: your wife is a loving narcissist who buys poo poo from Jessica Alba
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Sep 21, 2016 19:04
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namaste faggots posted:I was homeschooled out of necessity - I partially grew up in a rural third world shithole and loving lol if you are loving dumb enough to think it's beneficial. Let's just be real here: your wife is a loving narcissist who buys poo poo from Jessica Alba So many things just clicked into place about your posting.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:06
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peter banana posted:What has led you to believe that homeschooled kids don't have to meet provincial education standards? I'm pretty sure Brannock is referring to the outright dismissal of private schools.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:06
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namaste faggots posted:I was homeschooled out of necessity - I partially grew up in a rural third world shithole and loving lol if you are loving dumb enough to think it's beneficial. Let's just be real here: your wife is a loving narcissist who buys poo poo from Jessica Alba True. I, too, was homeschooled for a time and just look how that turned out.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:06
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If you home school your kid then at least have more than one of them. For God's sake don't home school an only child. Or better yet don't home school. All that social trauma that comes from interacting with other tiny humans is character building.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:08
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