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namaste faggots posted:I was homeschooled out of necessity - I partially grew up in a rural third world shithole and loving lol if you are loving dumb enough to think it's beneficial. Let's just be real here: your wife is a loving narcissist who buys poo poo from Jessica Alba totally agree except for like, the facts. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/cbs/43/3/195/ quote:the data showed that structured homeschooled children achieved higher standardized scores compared with children attending public school. There's no reason to believe that someone with pedgogical training wouldn't be able to homeschool their own kids. Helsing posted:If you home school your kid then at least have more than one of them. For God's sake don't home school an only child. Most homeschooling parents today arrange structured socialization time, often with other homeschool kids for this reason. You know, there's an off chance that homeschooling parents have given the process just a little bit more thought than a bunch of childless goons on the innernet. peter banana fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 19:13
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There's a pretty fuckin' wide gap between "[a self-selecting group with other advantages] achieves higher standardized test scores" and "beneficial." It's possible. It's possible to drive a car with just your legs. That doesn't make it a good loving idea. EDIT: "Structured socialization time" sounds completely natural, and comparable to having both supervised and unsupervised contact with a wide number of children on a regular basis, instead of a selected group. 
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Sep 21, 2016 19:16
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It's completely unsurprising that someone getting one-on-one attention from an instructor would score higher than someone in a classroom of children, especially if the study doesn't control for other variables like the parent's education and income. The question is whether you think performance on standardized tests is the only real criteria for evaluating schooling or whether a kid's ability to interact with peers and work in groups is important.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:18
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peter banana posted:totally agree except for like, the facts. Totally convinced by your arguments consisting of a sample size of one. tyvm u have changed my life
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Sep 21, 2016 19:19
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peter banana posted:You know, there's an off chance that anti vax parents have given vaccines just a little bit more thought than a bunch of childless goons on the innernet. I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong about homeschooling- but that is a pretty poor argument for the reasons readily apparent above. Nonetheless, if research says homeschooling is better, I'm more than willing to consider it. While I am opposed to private schooling as an institution, my opposition to homeschooling is more about the ideal welfare of my hypothetical future children. Helsing posted:It's completely unsurprising that someone getting one-on-one attention from an instructor would score higher than someone in a classroom of children, especially if the study doesn't control for other variables like the parent's education and income. The question is whether you think performance on standardized tests is the only real criteria for evaluating schooling or whether a kid's ability to interact with peers and work in groups is important. God yes, and I say this as an extremely high academic achiever who rarely participated in sports or extra curriculars. I fell victim to the 'education is everything!' parental generation. I'll definitely make a point of emphasizing the importance of non-academic aspects of my child's development. If there's something I've learned from grad school, it's that most successful students have a good work ethic and well rounded interests rather than excel specifically at test scores. PoizenJam fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 19:19
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Good thing that homeschooled children have 'structured socialization time' wouldn't want our kids to be able to make their own choices about who to befriend and interact with, im sure they'll be much better off if socially Mommy gets to choose 100% of the people they interact with
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Sep 21, 2016 19:20
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Yeah because school cohorts are totally representative of the economic and racial diversity the average person encounters in life. And schools also have structured socialization time? And literally that's what all sports are?
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Sep 21, 2016 19:22
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This whole "structured socialization time" sounds very cultish and bad, IMO.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:23
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PT6A posted:This whole "structured socialization time" sounds very cultish and bad, IMO. Structured in terms of time, really. Meaning homeschool parents work it into the schedule of the kid's education. And there are far more "structured socialization" events that we enrolls kids in without batting an eye. As I said, sports, etc. namaste faggots posted:Totally convinced by your arguments consisting of a sample size of one. tyvm u have changed my life I mean Google exists, dude. You could always try to falsify your own hypothesis. You're the one always talking about how important it is that we're all STEM-drones.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:24
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peter banana posted:Yeah because school cohorts are totally representative of the economic and racial diversity the average person encounters in life. This, but not sarcastic.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:25
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peter banana posted:Structured in terms of time, really. Meaning homeschool parents work it into the schedule of the kid's education. And there are far more "structured socialization" events that we enrolls kids in without batting an eye. As I said, sports, etc. Yes, in addition to going to school. It's not the only amount of socialization, and even school-based activities will necessarily put you into contact with a wider variety of people than the options available to parents who homeschool.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:26
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PT6A posted:Yes, in addition to going to school. It's not the only amount of socialization, and even school-based activities will necessarily put you into contact with a wider variety of people than the options available to parents who homeschool. Source? There are homeschooling experiences beyond exactly the one you had, just fyi.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:28
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peter banana posted:Yeah because school cohorts are totally representative of the economic and racial diversity the average person encounters in life. And schools also have structured socialization time? And literally that's what all sports are? Yeah because homeschooled cohorts of only people Mommy find acceptable for little Kaedyn to socially interact with are totally representative of the economic and racial diversity found in real life, right? 
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Sep 21, 2016 19:29
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A Typical Goon posted:Yeah because homeschooled cohorts of only people Mommy find acceptable for little Kaedyn to socially interact with are totally representative of the economic and racial diversity found in real life, right? it depends? Some people homeschool and travel a lot precisely because it will expose their kids to different cultures and types of people. Look, I'm not saying that weird, cloistered religious homeschooling isn't A Thing. It's just that there are a lot of reasons to homeschooland not least of which is because a parent a)might have training in education and b) might see deficits in the public school system that he/she could better address him/herself while ensuring that his/her kids have the opportunity to socialize as much as possible. That's my experience anyway, since I work in the education industry and try to stay up to date on the research about this kind of stuff.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:34
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holy poo poo you loving white people you don't need to homeschool your loving kids just pay attention to them when they get home from school jfc
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Sep 21, 2016 19:34
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PT6A posted:And having a large vocabulary is one of the most practically useful things to take out of English class, but if you were taught simply by being told to memorize word definitions from a dictionary, I would feel very sorry for you. Memorization of basic arithmetic should be a natural consequence of having done enough math that it becomes like second nature, just like having a large vocabulary comes naturally from reading a lot. I think we probably agree with each other. On a daily basis when I think 'what's 6 times 7', it's nice to have the answer right there. But of course I also have a deeper understanding of what's going on as well if I actually need to think. Honestly I was pretty into math as a kid but had to do the Kumon program and got pretty burnt out. But as it stands of stuff I use on a daily basis in my head it's pretty much times tables, algebra, and division. So if you're trying to impart useful life skills to a population of which 90%+ doesn't care about math at all you could do worse than drilling those in. Also I was homeschooled as well for a few years, to the effect that it took me a long time to learn to disguise the fact that I am a big weirdo.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:38
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Anecdotally, with additional evidence now provided by our own CanPol posting superstars, homeschooled kids turn out loving weird
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Sep 21, 2016 19:39
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If you're actually able to produce a better person through home schooling than public schooling then you're probably living so rarefied an existence, and your argument for home schooling is so couched in "as long as" and "assuming that" clauses, that it's wholly irrelevant and uninteresting. Wealthy people have resources, more at 11:00.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:40
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A lot of homeschool kids don't get socialized properly and end up...weird. Regardless of whether or not they're from a religious they end up overly precocious and don't understand personal space. There's a pretty good job market for tutoring homeschool kids whose parents can't teach to the provincial standard, but it requires going way out into the boonies and dealing with those kids. Decent money but those two factors can make it challenging. Many kids shake it off when they hit post-secondary and have to deal with large groups of people who aren't paying attention to them, the rest don't last very long.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:41
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peter banana posted:Yeah because school cohorts are totally representative of the economic and racial diversity the average person encounters in life. And schools also have structured socialization time? And literally that's what all sports are? It's not a question of whether the kid get's a totally representative sample of society's demographic rainbow, it's just a question of whether there might be some value in placing kid's in social situations that aren't meticulously controlled by their parent(s). Putting a kid in a group of other kids semi-randomly assembled from the local neighborhood and then giving those kids some amount of independent space in which to develop relationships and figure things out for themselves does seem to have some value, even if it does require some degree of adult supervision to deal with excessive bullying and the like. Honestly I already think some of the kid's I see don't get enough free time to just play make-believe, what with all the language and music lessons and sports programs and other structured classes, after which they turn to television or vidya games. This wouldn't be the first time in this thread I've drifted into Old Man Yells at Cloud territory but I can't imagine how kids will grow up to be proper citizens participating in society when they're emerging from such meticulously controlled and staged childhoods. PT6A posted:This whole "structured socialization time" sounds very cultish and bad, IMO. I'd go the opposite direction and say it just sounds like weird management-speak for what used to be called a play date. Helsing fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 19:42
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namaste faggots posted:holy poo poo you loving white people This is true, but funny coming from someone who loves to hype the benefits of private school. Every study that I've ever seen on the subject suggest that the most important factor for a child's development is level of parental involvement, and that level of schooling/income levels are much less key. A poor child who has a parent that cares will generally do better academically than a rich child who's parents don't give a gently caress
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Sep 21, 2016 19:46
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Dreylad posted:A lot of homeschool kids don't get socialized properly and end up...weird. When you say "a lot", how many is that? Because there were also "a lot" of kids throughout my schooling (which was all public) who were just as weird.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:47
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Helsing posted:I'd go the opposite direction and say it just sounds like weird management-speak for what used to be called a play date. Which itself used to be called, "I'm going over to so-and-so's house, I'll be back at X" because it's not some kind of complex operation that requires a whole bunch of timing. Mozi posted:I think we probably agree with each other. On a daily basis when I think 'what's 6 times 7', it's nice to have the answer right there. But of course I also have a deeper understanding of what's going on as well if I actually need to think. Oh, for sure. I love that I don't have to think about basic arithmetic. I'm just saying that memorization, whether of math or verb endings in foreign languages, should be a side effect rather than an end goal.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:47
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I went to alternative school and it was nice to have teachers who would acknowledge things like 'this is a waste of time' and 'the government forces me to teach you this.' Also, lots of weed smoking and hacky sack/frisbee for gym class. I feel sorry for people who missed out.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:48
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Lobok posted:When you say "a lot", how many is that? Because there were also "a lot" of kids throughout my schooling (which was all public) who were just as weird. We're all chucking around personal anecdotes around so I wasn't really trying to say my sample size is representative. But they're a different kind of weird, one that normally gets teased and bullied out of kids in public school. Not saying that's a good thing, just how it seems to go. Personally I'd like to see year round schooling with two-week breaks every few months instead of a summer long break. I think summer breaks interrupt learning so that teachers have to restart every September and re-teach basic concepts because kids (well, people) don't retain knowledge that well. It'd probably cost provinces a lot more, but I think it'd improve learning and keep kids engaged in school.
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Sep 21, 2016 19:49
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Helsing posted:It's not a question of whether the kid get's a totally representative sample of society's demographic rainbow, it's just a question of whether there might be some value in placing kid's in social situations that aren't meticulously controlled by their parent(s). Putting a kid in a group of other kids semi-randomly assembled from the local neighborhood and then giving those kids some amount of independent space in which to develop relationships and figure things out for themselves does seem to have some value, even if it does require some degree of adult supervision to deal with excessive bullying and the like. But honestly I think public schooled kids are just as managed and we all know that neurotic parental control has seeped into public schools as well. For example, Ontario sex-ed. As an anti-anecdote, my husband went to fancy boarding school in Ireland where he couldn't have had more attention from literal geniuses and men who had given up stuff like sex and living regular lives in the pursuit of providing a (pretty well-rounded) Catholic education and he also turned out socially...weird and almost completely unable to act independently unless someone else structured his time. And he definitely didn't go to school with any poor kids, not at whatever the 90's equivelent of 15,000 euro a year is (that's what it costs today). When a kid can direct a certain amount of their own learning and how they spend their time not learning, as well as getting a diverse range of educations experiences (outdoors education or maybe even specialized arts education) it can create different effects. But yeah, a lot of the time that is middle to upper middle-class people who can expend those resources. But the same thing happens in public school. It's not the working class kids who get Kumon classes. peter banana fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 19:50
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peter banana posted:men who had given up stuff like sex and living regular lives in the pursuit of providing a (pretty well-rounded) Catholic education and he also turned out socially...weird Sounds like what you'd expect
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Sep 21, 2016 20:01
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oh yeah I'll vote for whichever politician decides to destroy the catholic school system.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:03
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Dreylad posted:oh yeah I'll vote for whichever politician decides to destroy the catholic school system. I literally voted for the Ontario Green Party because of this. Single issue voters represent.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:05
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Dreylad posted:oh yeah I'll vote for whichever politician decides to destroy the catholic school system. Force them to use Discovery based learning for religion classes and it should be self resolving.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:06
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Dreylad posted:We're all chucking around personal anecdotes around so I wasn't really trying to say my sample size is representative. But they're a different kind of weird, one that normally gets teased and bullied out of kids in public school. Not saying that's a good thing, just how it seems to go. Dont places like Japan and some of the Scandinavian countries do this to good effect? They get 3(?) weeks off in July plus 1-2 week long breaks periodically throughout the year.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:08
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My parents want me to send my kid to a catholic private school and I literally told them no over my dead body will I subject my kid to a bunch of loving Catholics
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Sep 21, 2016 20:09
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My hometown has two high schools, one catholic one public. They are pretty much exactly the same except in the catholic one you had to take a mandatory religion course. Well that's my lovely anecdote, bye
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Sep 21, 2016 20:13
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Dreylad posted:We're all chucking around personal anecdotes around so I wasn't really trying to say my sample size is representative. But they're a different kind of weird, one that normally gets teased and bullied out of kids in public school. Not saying that's a good thing, just how it seems to go. This also affects post-secondary learning. There were a lot of reasons I preferred the courses at my university lasting only a semester but one way it wasn't as good as two-semester courses was because of having to re-learn material. If "Stats" existed at one school but was broken up into "Stats 1" and "Stats 2" at my school a student could take them back to back and have only a few weeks of break but they could also leave a few semesters in between.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:14
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My partner's brother and sister are both type-1 diabetic and went to Catholic school in Ontario. So when they acted up what was the teacher's punishment? Not letting them eat their lunch.
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Sep 21, 2016 20:20
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Dreylad posted:My partner's brother and sister are both type-1 diabetic and went to Catholic school in Ontario. There are lovely teachers in every system. My son went to a French catholic school for the first half of last year, and it was pretty good. A hell of a lot better than the French public school he was in previously. Ended up taking him out of French entirely and the English public board is a lot better, but that's another story. It's also just what school he goes to though. There's a huge difference between different schools in the same system let alone different systems.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:17
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I'm kind of scratching my head trying to figure out what myself, peter banana, and Furnaceface and whomever else did to earn this sweet new thread gangtang.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:19
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haha had to turn avatars on. I love it
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Sep 21, 2016 21:22
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No rage red text. A shameful avatar purchase(s).
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Sep 21, 2016 21:28
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I never liked Harper much till I had the chance to hang out with him at Bohemian Grove.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:29
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