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JawnV6 posted:I mean, full communism now, but given where we are this attitude applied as myopically as a programmer might makes it really hard to justify QA, or marketing, or literally any cost center. I guess they pay the company to work there? Joel took a whack at it a decade ago, this is decidedly stale material. Yes, other departments are important too, but if companies didn't expect to derive more value from you than your salary they wouldn't be paying you whatever they pay you.
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Sep 18, 2016 01:28
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Recent bootcamp grad here, in the job search curriculum now. They are having us spend a lot of time on LinkedIn/AngelList. How important is this? Wondering where my limited time is best spent (making projects better? cleaning up GitHub? refactoring old code? going to meetups?) Any general advice is appreciated.
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Sep 18, 2016 02:03
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RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS posted:Yes, other departments are important too, but if companies didn't expect to derive more value from you than your salary they wouldn't be paying you whatever they pay you. Those are all parts of a whole of course but a salesman with nothing to sell makes no commission. A ceo has no product if nobody there makes anything. Yeah sales guy deserves a cut too but that goes without saying. Really if I wasn't increasing the value of the company somehow I'd be out a job.
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Sep 18, 2016 02:07
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Those are all parts of a whole of course but a salesman with nothing to sell makes no commission. A ceo has no product if nobody there makes anything. Yeah sales guy deserves a cut too but that goes without saying. How is this even an argument? The CEO runs the company but it doesn't seem odd that he gets paid more than a programmer just because "running the business" is a vital part of running a business but not "programming the software we sell". Literally every company works like this - a product without an infrastructure for sales, support, management, etc is just as worthless as an infrastructure without a product. Why do programmers have such stunning egocentrism? We're talking about businesses, not government. They're not employing people in unnecessary positions out of the goodness of their heart. bomblol fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Sep 18, 2016 |
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Sep 18, 2016 02:21
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Keetron posted:Coming from test, I looked into the market and there is a demand for Selenium Test Automation in a Java/JUnit framework and other magic such as continuous delivery tools as Jenkins and ANT. Over my Christmas leave I decided to spend a ton of time on this, learning Java basics, learning Selenium and all the rest. Also I talk to much and made the mistake to tell my employer, a large Indian IT vendor, where I was planning to do this in my own time as I did not want my bosses to have any say in the speed or destination I was taking my life. To my massive surprise, they found me a role as a Test Automation Consultant in some local project (45min commute) and overall they seem to be rather accommodating. Wether this was coincidence or not, I don't care because now I can build billable experience in what I want to do. Starting the 25th, I am super nervous. Just popping in to give an update to my now somewhat edited post. Upon arrival to the client it turned out that the actual position of test automation engineer was not as available as I was told and I would be working on a different project. This should have set off some alarm bells but I went along with it, as a paycheck is nice. So a few months later, I didn't do any test automation at all just plain dumb manual testing of some lovely legacy application. This made me pretty unhappy so at the end of August I decided to make a move for freedom and more influence on my work and went interviewing for a medior/senior Test Engineer role. Three weeks later I can say a client want to hire me as a contractor for a very handsome hourly rate surpassing my current wages, all on a 12 month contract. Apparently I was the first candidate they talked to that did any of the following: - Keep a blog with my findings on test automation - Work on test automation outside of work for learning and enjoyment purposes - Was enthusiastic about knowing all the tools and techniques or at least have the ambition to do so - Knew more about Selenium than namedropping - Had a Github account with actual self-written code This was after they talked to three others who claimed to be test automation engineers. Main lesson learned would be that it is not hard to rise above the crowd of mediocrity. If you can talk passionately about whatever weird poo poo you did, it doesn't matter if it is an android port of the 90s game Astrotits. In fact, where do you host the apk (asking for a friend)?
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Sep 19, 2016 10:41
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Pilsner posted:Sarcasm aside (I laughed), you make a good point. Some people underestimate the value of a full-time permanent job position where you get your fixed salary every month pretty much no matter what the business value of your programming ends up at, as long as you perform within reason. Having been on both sides -- I think employees forget that people are risking lot of money to fund pre-IPO companies. I know it's a dramatic over simplification -- but the worst that happens if the company fails is that you loose your job but you got paid the entire time, and move on. I'm out millions of dollars.... never to be seen again. Having said that, you want a percentage of the profits? Expose yourself to some risk and we'll talk.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:02
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Pixelboy posted:Having been on both sides -- I think employees forget that people are risking lot of money to fund pre-IPO companies. Employees at startups do just that when they accept equity pay
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Sep 20, 2016 02:49
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So here goes a long post that basically asks, how employable am I? I'm currently a controls/electrical engineer looking to get into the software development industry for various reasons including not wanting to work in factories/natural gas plants anymore. I've been more or less programming PLCs the past couple of years. It's similar to traditional software programming in that there's logic that needs to be implemented, but usually it's done with visual diagrams, instead of typed code, so we're not talking C/C++ here. And it's very simplified. Being able to use functions is kinda cutting edge in this industry. While in university (graduated 4 years ago, bs in Electronics Engineering) I completed 4 of co-op placements and I gained experience using/learning open source software, C# programming, and web development/MVC stuff. Most of it was self taught, as I would basically be given a project at the start of the co-op and told to figure it out. Also took a bunch of object oriented programming/C++ classes while in school, so I think my programming fundamentals are solid. I've also been re-learning some fundamentals from guides online. How do I present myself as an attractive candidate with the experience that I have? My most relevant experience is 5-6 years old, and I'm not sure if my current experience is relevant at all. I've recently started a personal project trying to do some basic things with OpenCV and put it on GitHub, but I feel like that isn't enough. I got the bright idea to start an Udacity course to learn how to develop an Android applications, and to put a small one on GitHub to showcase what I can do. Is this viable? Or should I be exploring other avenues to at least get an interview. Scorpio fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 05:25
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Series DD Funding posted:Employees at startups do just that when they accept equity pay Taking a meaningful pay cut in exchange for equity is not really a normal thing to do anymore for anyone but the founders. Generally the base salary is about the same and the main total comp difference is just because your options are a lottery ticket rather than the nearly guaranteed money you'd get at Google.
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Sep 20, 2016 06:05
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Plorkyeran posted:Taking a meaningful pay cut in exchange for equity is not really a normal thing to do anymore for anyone but the founders. Generally the base salary is about the same and the main total comp difference is just because your options are a lottery ticket rather than the nearly guaranteed money you'd get at Google. I'm pretty sure your second sentence there just contradicted the first. Maybe people don't take big salary cut anymore, but by not getting that nearly guaranteed money at Google or some other public company, and instead getting startup equity, that's a compensation cut, pending a payout.
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Sep 20, 2016 06:13
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Regardless if people do or do not do that... I think "employees" taking equity as part of their compensation basically means the same thing as "people are risking lot of money to fund pre-IPO companies." so I'm not sure which side of the argument bringing up equity pay is supposed to argue for.
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Sep 20, 2016 14:55
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Plorkyeran posted:Taking a meaningful pay cut in exchange for equity is not really a normal thing to do anymore for anyone but the founders. Generally the base salary is about the same and the main total comp difference is just because your options are a lottery ticket rather than the nearly guaranteed money you'd get at Google. I dunno if it's my specialization or what, but angellist base salaries are typically 25~40% lower than I'd expect from an established employer. Maybe it has to do with series as well? If you know a series A/B startup giving full points and a $150k base I'd be really surprised.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:03
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dantheman650 posted:Recent bootcamp grad here, in the job search curriculum now. They are having us spend a lot of time on LinkedIn/AngelList. How important is this? Wondering where my limited time is best spent (making projects better? cleaning up GitHub? refactoring old code? going to meetups?) Any general advice is appreciated. I think there are a lot of recruiters making a living by spraying resumes, so I expect that your instructors are right and that's the most effective thing for you, too. If you're good at striking up conversation, going to meet-ups can be even better. I interviewed a bunch of bootcamp grads somewhat recently, and the most disappointing thing was when someone listed a project on their resume and it didn't work (usually the web page loads but all the server-side stuff is broken because of CORS or some other failure that's not apparent during local testing). But then you have to remember that there may have been other students with working projects who never managed to get their resumes to me. It's better to make sure that you get past step $n$ than to make sure that you get past step $n+1$.
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Sep 21, 2016 01:48
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Keetron posted:Apparently I was the first candidate they talked to that did any of the following: To be fair, that's an unusual hobby.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:13
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greatZebu posted:To be fair, that's an unusual hobby. Well, if you put it like that. I meant more: because I am curious and want to learn I have a home setup to allow me to fiddle around with test automation. So basically "Testers first Dev setup". But hey, it set me apart from the others.
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Sep 21, 2016 07:55
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Keetron posted:Well, if you put it like that. Testing is boring and tedious and nobody ever does enough of it. Somebody who not only takes initiative but likes testing is a rare bird indeed.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:22
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Hopefully this is the right web dev thread to post this in. I've been teaching myself vanilla JS, and I'm at the point where I think I can move into frameworks and semi understand how they work. I'm about to build my own personal portfolio site, and now I have a million "modern" front end technologies going through my head after watching a bunch of youtube talks, and I'm kind of concerned with what to build it with. Would it look better if code everything by hand with some sort of build system for minification/concat/whatever, or use a static site generator like Jekyll? I'm basically looking for something that will put me at an advantage when I start interviewing. I'd like to start learning React, but it kind of seems overkill for how small in scale my portfolio site will be. Or does none of this poo poo matter and I should just pick something? EDIT: Whoops, probably should have mentioned I'm hoping to land a junior front end dev position sometime early next year. ddiddles fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Sep 21, 2016 |
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Sep 21, 2016 21:43
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Just pick something.
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Sep 21, 2016 21:53
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The fact you're even building something puts you above the crowd. You're thinking way too hard about something a potential employer will look at for ten seconds. Ithaqua posted:Just pick something.
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Sep 21, 2016 22:02
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Testing is boring and tedious and nobody ever does enough of it. Somebody who not only takes initiative but likes testing is a rare bird indeed. Oh, there are most certainly people who do too much testing, usually well-intentioned. These tend to be the same people that believe every class needs an interface and that 10 line functions are bad for being too wordy.
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Sep 21, 2016 22:19
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baquerd posted:every class needs an interface and 10 line functions are bad for being too wordy Agreed.
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Sep 21, 2016 22:38
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baquerd posted:every class needs an interface and that 10 line functions are bad for being too wordy Correct opinions.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:32
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Ithaqua posted:Just pick something. Necc0 posted:The fact you're even building something puts you above the crowd. You're thinking way too hard about something a potential employer will look at for ten seconds. Thanks dudes, think I'll build it using Jekyll.
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Sep 21, 2016 23:37
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return0 posted:Correct opinions. That's what I find funny about this subforum. Most questions get as many answers as responses.
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Sep 22, 2016 00:13
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ddiddles posted:Thanks dudes, think I'll build it using Jekyll. Another thing I've done is have my portfolio site on github, then make branches of it recreating it using different frameworks/libraries.
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Sep 22, 2016 00:24
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rt4 posted:Agreed. return0 posted:Correct opinions. Look guys, we may disagree whether you are cargo culting this stuff from a particular elderly, white-haired astronomer enthusiast, but I respect that you jump to your cause's defense.
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Sep 22, 2016 03:17
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Got a call today from an unrecognized number today while I was in my math class. My heart skipped a beat cause somehow I knew it wasn't another robocall. Agonizing 20 minutes waiting for class to end. Get out of class, check my voicemail "Hey this is <recruiter>, the team has gotten back to me and I have an update on your application, so give me a call when you get this" I read online that Google will call regardless of whether they're rejecting you or taking you to the next step, and I was pretty positive I was getting rejected. Paced around for 10 minutes preparing to call and have my hopes crushed. drat, was I surprised. a great surprise  looks like i'll be getting flown out to mountain view soon!now to graduate from "i'll probably never get this job anyway so oh well"-level anxiety to "wow this is within my grasp and if I gently caress it up I'll feel terrible" anxiety
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Sep 22, 2016 05:22
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baquerd posted:Look guys, we may disagree whether you are cargo culting this stuff from a particular elderly, white-haired astronomer enthusiast, but I respect that you jump to your cause's defense. Yeah, let's instead encourage large functions and less use of interfaces in statically typed languages, in this thread, for newbie programmers.
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Sep 22, 2016 07:46
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Testing is boring and tedious and nobody ever does enough of it. Somebody who not only takes initiative but likes testing is a rare bird indeed. Manual testing is boring and tedious. Test Automation is making people (developers) happy. What I do is test automation so that the boring and tedious stuff is done only once and then I get paid to write code so that I never have to do the boring and tedious thing ever again. I seriously don't understand why others are so against doing this but hey, it is a living and the more people share your opinion, the better my pay due to low competition in the marketplace. In a good year I will be making about 125K. My biggest question remains "Why didn't I do this years earlier?" Besides, it is almost programming in that I work in IntelliJ to: - Build a bunch of classes to hold my statics - Build a bunch of classes to describe basic front-end interactions either per screen, process or element, whatever fits best in the framework - Build a bunch of classes to handle XML-interfaces matching whatever was done in the above step - Build a bunch of test classes to run the three in unison and provide nice reporting Then the next step is either improving readability by implementing some BDD tool like Cucumber or ATDD tool like Fitnesse and linking that to the above. Then move on to full automation by putting this in Jenkins and have it run after every compile / deploy cycle. Then when all this is in place, properly document and hand over to some junior and move on to the next client to do it all again with whatever at this time is the newest flavor of the month tool to do it in.
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Sep 22, 2016 09:52
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An interface on every class, just for the sake of, grossly pollutes the codebase and is terrible. It is a hack concept that stems from unittesting frameworks that require you to have an interface on a class in order to be able to mock it. Writing the code properly with as little technical fluff as possible is first priority, making it fit to some test framework or mocking is second priority. Thinking about putting an interface on your class? Considering an inheritance hierarchy? When in doubt, leave it out, as the saying goes. It makes no sense to put an interface on a class where you know with certainty that this is going to be only one implementation of that interface. Edit: I should note that this is talking about .NET development, where I have seen some horror examples of interface- and inheritance spewing that makes the code very hard to read and debug. In other languages it might be different. Pilsner fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Sep 22, 2016 |
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Sep 22, 2016 09:56
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bomblol posted:drat, was I surprised. a great surprise
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Sep 22, 2016 10:33
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Pilsner posted:An interface on every class, just for the sake of, grossly pollutes the codebase and is terrible. It is a hack concept that stems from unittesting frameworks that require you to have an interface on a class in order to be able to mock it. Writing the code properly with as little technical fluff as possible is first priority, making it fit to some test framework or mocking is second priority. Which mocking frameworks don't require an interface?
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Sep 22, 2016 16:19
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Munkeymon posted:Which mocking frameworks don't require an interface? What language are you using? Mockito for Java is a good start.
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Sep 22, 2016 16:43
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Munkeymon posted:Which mocking frameworks don't require an interface? In C# land, Typemock Isolator and the MS Fakes framework can both do "shims" that do runtime injection of fakes. So you can do code:Personally I don't like it for a lot of cases because it just lets you hack your way around the fact that you've written tightly coupled, hard to test code.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:04
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Munkeymon posted:Which mocking frameworks don't require an interface? ScalaMock will mock classes that have 0-parameter constructors; trivial enough to create such a test class that subclasses any class without a 0-parameter constructor. Unless it is a final class or extends a sealed trait.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:11
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Easy mock in java can mock any nonfinal class.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:59
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Munkeymon posted:Which mocking frameworks don't require an interface? YOSPOS provides a cloud service for security applications
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Sep 22, 2016 19:55
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hobbesmaster posted:YOSPOS provides a cloud service for security applications  I stopped reading that thread at work because the corporate firewall gave me an especially scary "no you can't look at this" message on one page and I figure that poo poo is logged somewhere :\
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Sep 22, 2016 20:17
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So what should be in a good C++ coding sample? Like, I'm working on a Ray Tracer for my graphics class, if I clean it up and update it from C++98 would that suffice? Is there a good checklist of features of the language I should make sure I understand and correctly implement, and things to avoid?
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Sep 23, 2016 01:03
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everythingWasBees posted:So what should be in a good C++ coding sample? Like, good C++ code? It being exception-safe would be nice.
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