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Droyer posted:The one part of the ending I feel is a bit odd is Guin and Merrybell ending up exiled together. They only had like one conversation so lumping them together (albeit nonromantically) at the end strikes me as a bit odd. Probably the only two people willing to put up with each other. Guin had outed himself as a sociopatic rear end in a top hat and Merrybell was Crazy from the start. With Gym dead I can't really imagine anyone else wanting Merrybell around and I don't really see anyone wanting to be around Guin after he tried to sell out everyone.
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Sep 20, 2016 14:11
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More specifically, they were the last two surviving members of the Ghingnham faction with names and personalities (well, give or take what happened to Gym), which meant they'd naturally end up lumped together in exile.
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Sep 20, 2016 14:14
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The Zaku II remained relevant up to the end of the war, with high performance variants still being made, like the Psyco prototype or the FZ. Actually, the FZ is kind of neat, because it is the opposite of the F2. Both types are late war refits of the Zaku II but with opposing design goals. The F2 gives a slight performance increase and a greatly extending operating range, while the FZ gives a high performance increase but halves its operational time. But that's what you get when you strap Dom style hover boosters to the feet.
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Sep 20, 2016 15:24
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ninjewtsu posted:what exactly do you mean by obsolete? like, the zaku 2 was relevant up until the very end of the war, even though its specs got pretty heavily outclassed halfway through, right? Well, that's the Borjarnon. It's always going to be trying its best.
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Sep 20, 2016 18:29
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ninjewtsu posted:what exactly do you mean by obsolete? like, the zaku 2 was relevant up until the very end of the war, even though its specs got pretty heavily outclassed halfway through, right? Kind of like the Panzer IV! It was badly outdated by the end of the war, but it was a solid, reliable, easy-to-build machine that never got fully replaced by the powerful but finicky and expensive Panthers (Doms) and Tigers (Gelgoogs). In case you're wondering, the Zaku I is probably closest to the Panzer II, a pre-war machine intended as a stopgap before the Panzers III and IV came out that played an instrumental role in the initial blitzkrieg but was rapidly relegated to specialist roles behind the lines and only used in the most desperate circumstances near the end of the war. The Panzer III, for the record, was built alongside the IV as a more specialised anti-tank machine (as opposed to the IV's initial infantry-support role), but swiftly became obsolete once the Allies started building moderately OK tanks, and had the more versatile IV and more advanced tanks like the Panther take over its role. So... uhh... I guess it's the Gouf?
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Sep 20, 2016 19:13
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Well the gouf is a straight upgrade to the zaku isn't it? And it's meant to fill the same role? Once the war was underway zeon wanted a successor to the zaku and both the gouf and the dom were presented. Zeon chose the dom over the gouf for reasons that I don't remember off the top of my head, but the gouf was a fully adequate zaku++ in its own right. Ramba ral wasn't stuck with some specialist machine, he was piloting essentially a stronger zaku. Just like the black tri stars were piloting slightly different stronger zakus. They all filled the same battlefield role, just at different levels of strength.
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Sep 20, 2016 19:51
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I thought the Gouf was designed for close range gravity combat?
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Sep 20, 2016 19:57
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Guy Goodbody posted:I thought the Gouf was designed for close range gravity combat? Straight upgrade to the Zaku J type? EDIT: actually, I'd say that the Gouf line is more like the self propelled guns that were built from the Panzer III chassis. Goufs and Efreets tend to be operated by ace pilots, which was also the case for the Sturmgeschutz III, the StuG. It was an assault gun that turned out to be one of the best tank killers the Germans fielded. So maybe not "close range" combat, but the same mentality of building off a proven design to create something new for a specialized combat role. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Sep 20, 2016 |
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Sep 20, 2016 20:10
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I did get the impression that the Gouf lost out because it was more specialised than the Dom, with its overreliance on fixed weapons like its heat rods and finger-guns (which would presumably make it really hard for it to hold any weapon above a certain size).
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Sep 20, 2016 21:03
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Darth Walrus posted:I did get the impression that the Gouf lost out because it was more specialised than the Dom, with its overreliance on fixed weapons like its heat rods and finger-guns (which would presumably make it really hard for it to hold any weapon above a certain size). Yeah, that's pretty much why the Gouf Custom happened, because all the close quarters, built-in weapons weren't working out, so they redesigned it to focus on being a lightweight, more modular suit for ace pilots.
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Sep 20, 2016 21:37
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Also it can't go into space, which was why the Zaku II was so valuable.
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Sep 20, 2016 23:27
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Moon Moon was some of the best ZZ so far. Judau is hilariously ineffective at getting his sister back. Beecha is an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 21, 2016 00:56
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Moon Moon was absolutely ridiculous and I love it
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Sep 21, 2016 01:09
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Xarbala posted:Moon Moon was absolutely ridiculous and I love it I wish UC Gundam had more stuff like that. Culturally distinct colonies would be neat.
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Sep 21, 2016 03:58
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Guy Goodbody posted:I wish UC Gundam had more stuff like that. Culturally distinct colonies would be neat. It was super lol that they regressed from members of a spacefaring civilization to tribal animism in the space of like 20 years.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:08
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Midjack posted:It was super lol that they regressed from members of a spacefaring civilization to tribal animism in the space of like 20 years. Man, with how lovely space society gets in the UC, Moon Moon is a breath of fresh air.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:32
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Moon Moon is like a weird early draft of Turn A looking back on it.
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Sep 21, 2016 04:42
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brainwrinkle posted:Moon Moon was some of the best ZZ so far. Judau is hilariously ineffective at getting his sister back. Beecha is an rear end in a top hat. I love moon moon especially since the first dozen episodes ZZ are fuckin awful and it's like "oh hey, something not incredibly irritating"
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Sep 21, 2016 04:58
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Moon Moon are the two worst episodes in the worst UC series
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Sep 21, 2016 05:16
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not even by a long ahot
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Sep 21, 2016 05:30
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That's a weird way of saying the two Kelly episodes for 0083.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:30
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Moon Moon does have Chara Soon so it is terrible as is any episode with Chara Soon.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:33
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Near the end of Zeta, all actions characters take have dire consequences. People die, they lose friends, wars are won and lost. In the beginning of ZZ, nothing results in serious consequences at all. No one besides Judau cares that his sister is captured or tries to help rescue her. Beecha and Mondo try to get their friends killed multiple times to make a profit, yet no one tries to arrest them. The villains get their men killed, but are held back from being scary by ridiculous comedic character flaws. Bright just doesn't give a poo poo anymore. Hell, Judau pilots the Zeta and ZZ without really acknowledging that he could be killed. That especially seems like a departure for the main Gundam pilot. It's such a weird, jarring tonal shift for the setting in continuity. I think it really works better when they dial up the wackiness, so Moon Moon is great, Mashymere is great, and Chara is great. Everything else feels like children playing at war incompetently. I don't dislike it, but I'm so glad I took a few months break in between the series.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:39
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Mashymere and Gotton are the best two ZZ characters and its a shame how short the time they spend together is.
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Sep 21, 2016 05:43
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PBS Newshour posted:Moon Moon does have Chara Soon so it is terrible as is any episode with Chara Soon. In other words, really good?
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Sep 21, 2016 06:09
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Arcsquad12 posted:That's a weird way of saying the two Kelly episodes for 0083. Hey, the incredible homoeroticism of them playing sax music while Kou sits on Kelly's shoulders with his thighs clenched against Kelly's neck as they work on the Val Varo together is an unintentionally hilarious high point of 0083, though not at all in the way they probably intended. (I'm still not entirely clear why Kou willingly committed high treason by helping Kelly rebuild the Val Varo despite actively overhearing Kelly talking to the Cima Fleet about joining the Delaz Fleet with it, so I'll just chalk it up to it being 0083.)
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Sep 21, 2016 12:11
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Kou is an idiot who should have noticed that ideals like that died with the people slightly older than him in the opening hours of that war. Sure I'll help you repair a machine that will use to kill my friends and gently caress with my allies! Guy Goodbody posted:In other words, really good? I am still sad they fridged her. She could have worn some sweet shutter shades and hung out with space queen Haman.
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Sep 21, 2016 13:39
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Absolutely nothing funny in 0083 is intentionally so. And Kou does everything he does because he's a god damned imbecile. We've been through this!
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Sep 21, 2016 15:02
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SeanBeansShako posted:Kou is an idiot who should have noticed that ideals like that died with the people slightly older than him in the opening hours of that war. Did Chara's death really count as a fridging? I usually think of that as a pointless, tragic, and mean-spirited killing to motivate another character, removing a woman's agency to give it to someone else. You know, like what happened to Yurin in AGE. Chara, on the other hand, simply followed the suit of the rest of her faction, going out like a beast in a glorious last stand against impossible odds while taking vastly superior enemies with her. Seriously, she almost single-handedly broke Glemmy's clone brigade. Her death just seemed way too heroic and impressive to count as a fridging.
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Sep 21, 2016 15:35
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Darth Walrus posted:Did Chara's death really count as a fridging? I usually think of that as a pointless, tragic, and mean-spirited killing to motivate another character, removing a woman's agency to give it to someone else. You know, like what happened to Yurin in AGE. Chara, on the other hand, simply followed the suit of the rest of her faction, going out like a beast in a glorious last stand against impossible odds while taking vastly superior enemies with her. Seriously, she almost single-handedly broke Glemmy's clone brigade. Perhaps it wasn't fridging, I watched ZZ straight after Zeta and all the Tomino kill all the minor dudes kind of blur together in my head. It got a bit silly after a while with ZZ due to the rushed and confusing nature of that civil war. I can barely remember who fought for Glemy and who fought for Haman. I just remember lots of exploding mobile suits.
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Sep 21, 2016 15:37
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Bimmi posted:Absolutely nothing funny in 0083 is intentionally so. And Kou does everything he does because he's a god damned imbecile. We've been through this! The entire reason why kou hates carrots is because he's voiced by vegeta
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Sep 21, 2016 15:45
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I actually like Chara but then sometimes I suddenly don't. Very much like Chara.
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Sep 21, 2016 18:36
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"I'm the enemy you idiot!" was absolutely intended to be funny as well.
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Sep 22, 2016 03:44
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Raxivace posted:"I'm the enemy you idiot!" was absolutely intended to be funny as well. I'm still not sure if Kou was a naive kid way out of his depth, or if he had some kind of actual developmental disability.
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Sep 22, 2016 04:13
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Guy Goodbody posted:I'm still not sure if Kou was a naive kid way out of his depth, or if he had some kind of actual developmental disability. Kou is absolutely intended to be a naive, immature kid from basically when the series starts to after he kills Kelly. His entire romance with Nina in the first half of the show is characterized by him being as timid as a middle schooler asking a girl on a date and her getting increasingly frustrated by this. Kou repeatedly snaps to attention and responds in a respectful manner reflexively whenever anyone speaks to him in a commanding manner, even if they're a stranger(Kelly) or an enemy(Gato). This characterization is fine and is even played for laughs(such as when he responds to Gato's taunting with "yes sir" and the aforementioned "I'm your enemy you idiot" exchange), it's just that when it tips over the ledge from naivety to actual honest to god high treason that it becomes stupid as hell.
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Sep 22, 2016 06:42
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Peace newbie cadets are scared as poo poo to anyone in rank. That was probably the worst anxiety for me, walking along and having to salute and figure out what a guy's rank is from his stripes at that very moment.
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Sep 22, 2016 12:22
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I dont think kou's characterization is too bad, but he's a naive idiot as an adult in a series full up with child soldiers and it comes off as really bizarre.
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Sep 22, 2016 14:50
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His characterization in episode one is so off base with the rest of the show. I mean seriously, Keith keeps talking like kou is some hotshot daredevil who is always getting into wild adventures, but once the episode ends kou becomes a nervous wreck for the remainder of the series. In a smarter show, I'd say this would be an effective switch up as the blowhard gets his first taste of real combat and crumples under pressure, but 0083 is not a smart show. His arrogance gets replaced by recklessness, and his conversations with Nina change tone entirely from two mechanics obsessed nerds to awkward badly written flirting.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:34
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The wildest thing about kou being a hapless rookie is when you realize he's the same age as Amuro and by all rights would have been conscripted into the OYW like all the other teenagers in the earth sphere
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Sep 22, 2016 19:31
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The wildest thing about kou being a hapless rookie is when you realize he's the same age as Amuro and by all rights would have been conscripted into the OYW like all the other teenagers in the earth sphere
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Sep 22, 2016 19:38
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