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Scrivener + Dropbox ftw
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Sep 18, 2016 01:46
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Screaming Idiot posted:I know this question has been answered enough times in the past, but I've dug around and I can't find it and so I'll ask again and maybe tattoo the answer backwards across my forehead: How long should a manuscript be before and after editing? The current one I'm on is 9078 words long and 379 double-spaced pages at 13pt. Times New Roman. On the one hand, I think editing shouldn't be a matter of reaching an arbitrary number like '20% less than the first draft'. It should be about tightening the novel up so that it reads better. On the other hand -- 90,000 words sounds pretty long for comic sci-fi. I haven't read too many books in that genre, so you should do your own research into similar novels and see how long they are. From a bit of googling I learned that Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is 46,000 words, but some of Terry Pratchett's books are up around 90,000.
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Sep 18, 2016 02:40
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Sailor Viy posted:On the one hand, I think editing shouldn't be a matter of reaching an arbitrary number like '20% less than the first draft'. It should be about tightening the novel up so that it reads better. Oh, length isn't the entire goal, I'm just trying to pare it down to something a little more manageable while working out the kinks in the story. I've actually removed about three chapters worth of useless fluff, including a spectacularly stupid introduction that had absolutely nothing to do with the story. I know the quality of the book's contents is the most important thing, but I want to keep my work short enough to be interesting not just to the reader, but to a potential publisher. I know a lot of budding authors want to be the next Tolkien or GRRM, but those guys got to where they were in spite of their books being large enough club buffaloes to death, not because. Also, where do you guys stand on illustrations? After I get my first book edited I was toying with the idea of hiring and artist to draw some of the more important scenes, either as inserts for the book itself or as potential covers.
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Sep 18, 2016 04:22
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Tell me how to make Lovecraft work in a contemporary tale. I can't get with the "thing that can't be described!" and "isolated town holds the beast at bay with old-world methods!" but that's about the only parts I tend to roll my eyes at. I love the notion of beasts so huge they're not even concerned with mankind, they've co-existed on this planet forever, we just haven't seen them because X; but, how do you work a fiction tale where defeat isn't an issue - we're either so doomed there's no point, or they'd only wipe us out by accident... so, that's not exactly the conflict. Can you give me some contemporary tales to dig into? I enjoyed D.Wong's JDATE and Book Filled with Spiders. Can y'all think of tales like that?
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Sep 18, 2016 18:53
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magnificent7 posted:Tell me how to make Lovecraft work in a contemporary tale. You might want to read the Laundry Files series, in particular the first book, The Atrocity Archives. They're sort of James Bond crossed with Lovecraft by way of Snow Crash. Spoilers for the first book's climax if you don't want to read the entire thing: The protagonists are lured into an adjacent dimension where the Nazis summoned an "ice giant" to help them win World War II. The giant is actually some entropy-eating, universe-spanning entity that the author never even tries to describe except in abstract, but it went on to bring that universe to a "cold death" -- everything except for the dying remnants of the solar system has been eaten, and even the light from the sun is being red-shifted as the giant extracts energy from it. The protagonists then have to deal with a) the fact that it's now consuming their heat, the signal from their radios, etc., and b) the nuclear bomb they brought with them that would give the giant enough power to cross over into our dimension if it exploded...and it's on a timer that can't be shut off. I guess one way to think of it is that you can use Lovecraftian horrors as a kind of "terrain" that needs to be navigated. The ancient undying horror doesn't really care about you, but if you have to do things in its vicinity then it may well end up killing you. It may also have goals that are counter to your own goal (viz. surviving). Sort of like if Galactus decided to visit your planet.
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Sep 18, 2016 19:51
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The mood of a lot of cosmic horror/Lovecraftian stuff ports well to other times and periods. I mean, At the Mountains of Madness is set in Antarctica, which is pretty far from New England. But I wanted to answer the question about writing fiction where failure is a foregone conclusion. I think you can actually extend this to cover a lot of world-heavy fiction. By that I mean things like cyberpunk, or fantasy, or cosmic horror, or anything where you need to put a lot of work into the detail of a setting. It sounds simple, but what I've found helps a lot is asking in this world, what would someone want? I've noticed when I do a lot of worldbuilding that I run into plots that involve explaining the world. Someone has to learn about the world, and given what they now know, they come to a decision. That's not a great way to start a plot. What do they want in the beginning? Why are they learning about this? What's forcing their hand to make this decision? A better way to start, I've found, is by thinking about the character. Put the world aside--not away, but just off to the side--while you think about them. What do they want? Sure, maybe the world is doomed; sure, maybe they can't even hope to stand up against some horrible force of nature. But they still want something. Maybe it's to escape. That's what the deal is in Call of Cthulhu. Maybe it's to find answers, like the explorers trying to figure out what happened in At the Mountains of Madness, or the protagonist trying to learn what the deal is with his family in Shadow over Innsmouth. Even 'rescue my loved one' works, that's the ultimate goal in King of Shreds and Patches, a Lovecraftian text adventure. None of these people want things that involve the ultimate fate of the world, and the ultimate fate doesn't even really matter in their stories. The stories are all about their personal struggles. None of them are really trying to change or fix the world. That's not to say that you couldn't write about someone who's eventually trying to save the world, but no one gets out of the shower thinking they're going to save the world today.
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Sep 19, 2016 00:15
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magnificent7 posted:Tell me how to make Lovecraft work in a contemporary tale. I've written three Lovecraftian novellas in modern settings, which have been pretty well received. HPL used to write about then-current science and theory in his Mythos stories, and science has only gotten stranger since his day, so there are plenty of ideas to play with if you want to set it in the present day. In terms of finding conflict, even if your protagonists are on an ultimately doomed trajectory, they can still have personal struggles and objectives. Djeser posted:A better way to start, I've found, is by thinking about the character. Put the world aside--not away, but just off to the side--while you think about them. What do they want? Exactly: you make the futilitarian Lovecraft universe the setting for telling the actual story, whether that is personal, or philosophical, or political, or whatever. It's hard to say anything more about that without sounding like the most godawful embarrassing pseud, but shoot me a PM if you want me to expand on it.
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Sep 19, 2016 10:46
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Thanks. Good places to start, great points.
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Sep 19, 2016 18:13
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I actually just started writing a Lovecraftian science fiction novel too (but more as in fiction about science) that began as the cheap schlocky romance novel I posted about earlier. It's still about a heartbroken widow moving to a small town to find solace, but she's a trained astronomer who starts noticing small, scientifically impossible phenomena that the normal residents had been overlooking.
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Sep 21, 2016 01:32
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change my name posted:I actually just started writing a Lovecraftian science fiction novel too (but more as in fiction about science) that began as the cheap schlocky romance novel I posted about earlier. It's still about a heartbroken widow moving to a small town to find solace, but she's a trained astronomer who starts noticing small, scientifically impossible phenomena that the normal residents had been overlooking. Goonspeed to Carla and may she find much happiness with Cecilia i'm sorry i couldn't resist
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Sep 21, 2016 06:44
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General Battuta posted:Goonspeed to Carla and may she find much happiness with Cecilia I said small things.
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Sep 21, 2016 15:14
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how do yall get feedback on your books. i dont know any like writer groups or anything that would be willing to trade me reading their garbage for mine. do i just use like meetup.com or something or what
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Sep 22, 2016 19:54
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anime was right posted:how do yall get feedback on your books. i dont know any like writer groups or anything that would be willing to trade me reading their garbage for mine. do i just use like meetup.com or something or what tinder
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Sep 22, 2016 20:02
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anime was right posted:how do yall get feedback on your books. i dont know any like writer groups or anything that would be willing to trade me reading their garbage for mine. do i just use like meetup.com or something or what I found my writing group on Meet Up so it's at least worth checking out.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:11
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sebmojo posted:tinder What is this poo poo? Go grindr or go home. (Make friends with readers/writers you trust and get their feedback. See if there are local writer organizations in your area, those often hold workshops. Be careful about posting your work on display sites if you choose to go that route for critique.)
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Sep 23, 2016 00:48
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HIJK posted:I found my writing group on Meet Up so it's at least worth checking out. I did the same thing. Tindr is also good though, especially since you can get double the value by getting valuable feedback on sex.
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Sep 23, 2016 06:07
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Naerasa posted:I did the same thing. Tindr is also good though, especially since you can get double the value by getting valuable feedback on sex. Show don't tell
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Sep 23, 2016 08:31
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I went to a critique group's monthly meeting last night, only to find out I'd misread the schedule. It was actually on Tuesday.
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Sep 23, 2016 14:19
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sebmojo posted:Show don't tell DEEZ are my NUTZ. Sweaty, gnarled, and somewhat stanky. They move when nobody's looking. And feedback is hell to find. Be ready to do two things: endure lovely writing and either be honest or sell your soul, AND, be ready to hear critique without responding "You don't understand..."
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Sep 24, 2016 01:48
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Keromaru5 posted:I went to a critique group's monthly meeting last night, only to find out I'd misread the schedule. It was actually on Tuesday. if you want to write, you must also read it is very important
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Sep 24, 2016 02:29
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sebmojo posted:if you want to write, you must also read it is very important im not a commie, sobmejo
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Sep 24, 2016 02:31
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sebmojo posted:if you want to write, you must also read it is very important This is a lie. I'm illiterate and people pay to read my poo poo. (Please read good words, lots of good words, in a variety of genres and forms both fiction and non-fiction. Reading literary criticism of works you've read is also useful, in my experience. (Yeah, that's words about words.))
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Sep 24, 2016 02:49
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RedTonic posted:This is a lie. I'm illiterate and people pay to read my poo poo. who pays to read your poo poo. how do i make entire dollars puking words.
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Sep 24, 2016 04:55
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anime was right posted:who pays to read your poo poo.  Check out the self pub thread, read systran's posts.(Or be like Battuta and nail down a publisher!)
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Sep 24, 2016 05:00
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RedTonic posted:
yeah but how do i do it without any talent or effort this is important to me, a person who builds huge imaginary worlds in my head that i think have consistency but are really just a hodgepodge of anime tropes
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Sep 24, 2016 05:05
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anime was right posted:yeah but how do i do it without any talent or effort this is important to me, a person who builds huge imaginary worlds in my head that i think have consistency but are really just a hodgepodge of anime tropes This is perhaps something that the hypothetical "you" will have to sort out with TCC and/or a religious megathread!  A few years ago I was at a panel on writing professionally and another audience member asked exactly this but without a hint of irony. The panel members patiently supplied a bunch of alternatives (none good enough, ofc) until they finally gave up in that old, familiar way.
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Sep 24, 2016 05:15
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anime was right posted:yeah but how do i do it without any talent or effort this is important to me, a person who builds huge imaginary worlds in my head that i think have consistency but are really just a hodgepodge of anime tropes Just tag it as 'urban fantasy' and you're golden.
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Sep 24, 2016 17:07
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anime was right posted:yeah but how do i do it without any talent or effort this is important to me, a person who builds huge imaginary worlds in my head that i think have consistency but are really just a hodgepodge of anime tropes Have you tried TVtropes?
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Sep 24, 2016 17:11
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Flopstick posted:Just tag it as 'urban fantasy' and you're golden. 
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Sep 24, 2016 17:16
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anime was right posted:yeah but how do i do it without any talent or effort this is important to me, a person who builds huge imaginary worlds in my head that i think have consistency but are really just a hodgepodge of anime tropes just keep telling yourself you'll pull it together someday  repeat until you die, die hopeful
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Sep 24, 2016 17:36
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my life is a hodgepodge of anime tropes so i think u can pull it off forums poster anime was right
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Sep 24, 2016 17:49
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flerp posted:my life is a hodgepodge of anime tropes so i think u can pull it off forums poster anime was right ty for believing in me also thanks to all the people who gave me actual good advice
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Sep 24, 2016 17:58
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ok in all seriousness, this year I've discovered that discipline, above anything else, is the most necessary tool for writing. like it's oft-repeated and it really sucks to hear. I tried to make my brain do hula hoop acrobat gymnastics around it. It sucks in a way that is specific to things that are hard but true. Anyway my point is gently caress writing, man.
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Sep 24, 2016 18:15
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Sitting Here posted:discipline, above anything else, is the most necessary tool for writing.
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Sep 24, 2016 18:31
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Sitting Here posted:ok in all seriousness, this year I've discovered that discipline, above anything else, is the most necessary tool for writing. are you saying
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Sep 24, 2016 20:18
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anime was right posted:are you saying No i would never say a thing crabrock said but to be a little bit blathery for a second, i would say that "just write" is a good mindset in the beginning, when you need to convince yourself to get words on the page. I think discipline is the next step. Discipline might be, for example, completing a full outline with notes and then writing an entire story or chapter by a self-imposed deadline. It might be getting up a little earlier every day to have time to write. It might mean maintaining your writing practice even when you're on vacation/relaxing. Etc etc etc. Basically it amounts to time management + resolve to keep working even when you're not ~inspired~. Then there is discipline in the writing craft itself. That's a little more vague. Maybe it's knowing what is tired and hackneyed and working to keep that stuff out your prose. Maybe it's forcing yourself to think through hazy plot points in advance, rather than solving things slapdash on the page. Maybe it's keeping detailed notes so you avoid dumb description/continuity fuckups. Beyond that, I think there is a certain kind of life discipline you should have too. Don't drink so much you can't make yourself get out of bed to write the next morning. Don't give away all your free time to leisure and then go "woops where did all my writing time go." Make sure your writing environment isn't an assy cesspit of empty beer and energy drink cans. Etc. in conclusion, don't Just Write. Write Right.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:45
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Clean living?! Well I never.  The Long Walk threads were helpful for improving my discipline w/r/t output and deadlines. Keeping your workspace tidy and relatively distraction free is also good for obvious reasons. Outlines are loving great. I'm never going back to winging it, gently caress that poo poo. It's too easy to say "oh, I'm not feeling it today, no inspiration" when you're winging it. With an outline, especially a detailed outline, that excuse rings hollow. A good outline will help you write more words more quickly than you believed you could. I don't think you have to write Every Day -- I usually like to take weekends off and recharge -- but you can't beat the results of regularly and frequently writing. Not just panic-writing once a week to the TD deadline, either (though I'll maintain that that's better than never writing at all, and only thinking "I should be writing" or "I should have written").
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Sep 24, 2016 20:52
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outlines are p useful.
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Sep 24, 2016 21:00
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anime was right posted:outlines are p useful. They also help your words be less poo poo! 
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Sep 24, 2016 21:02
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RedTonic posted:They also help your words be less poo poo! my words are 100% grade a bullshit
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Sep 24, 2016 23:22
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