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Negrostrike posted:My friend, Albertoni, made this wad and wants some feedback if possible. I contributed a little with gfx and ideas. There's some nice experimentation in it. Please run it on GZDoom. I don't know if your friend actually reads this thread, but I've got some thoughts on the Wad I figured I'd share. Played it in GZDoom, on UV, with pistol starts. Map 01 - Pretty standard map 01 fare. Light opposition, very rectangular level design. Plays well enough, but nothing that'll stick with you for long. - The drug effect at the beginning is a bit underwhelming. It feels more like a graphical glitch than a conscious design decision. Even something as small as adding a sound effect would go a long way towards making it feel more impactful. - Doors that look like they should open but don't are a bit of a pet peeve of mine. It might be nice to add some wooden bars in front of them, or give them some other visual clue that distinguishes them from normal doors. - The semi-invisible Imps are really cool, and I wish they'd show up again later on. As it is, we only ever encounter them in this brightly lit area, which more or less wastes their gimmick. Map 02 - Now it's getting interesting. I love the structure you can see in the distance to the right. Purple is an unusual choice for Doom, but it works very well here. - Placing three Super Shotguns in the level feels a bit excessive. It's not like you're likely to miss the first one. - The final fight would be more tense if the stairs behind you disappeared upon hitting the switch. As it is, you can very easily just camp on top of the stairs and kill anything that comes too close. Map 03 - My favourite one. Moody, fairly open, and with some actual meat to the combat. Still not too difficult due to the heavy ordinance you're given, but challenging enough to keep you on your toes. - On the way to the Red Key, there's a dark area with a narrow path that comes right after the teleport and subsequent Spectre ambush. While an invisible wall normally prevents you from leaving the path there's a small opening to the left through which you can still fall. If that happens, the map becomes unwinnable because there's no way back up. - Having two Supersphere secrets right after each other is a bit excessive, especially since there's barely any combat between them. - The lone Cacodemon in the open area feels pointless because it takes him forever to reach you. - I like the little message you get when you straferun to one of the ledges. - The Chainsaw should probably be marked as a secret. Dito the BFG. - Is there a way to get the Computer Area Map without straferunning? I never found one of the secrets, so it might be related to that. - The final fight feels appropriately climactic in terms of presentation, but the actual combat is somewhat disappointing. It's very easy to continually run circles around the area, by which point the only danger is getting sniped by the Chaingunners. Maybe it'd be more tense if the monsters spawned at the edge of the area rather than near the centre, or if there was more than one Archvile. Map 04 - It's me, I'm the guy who missed the Super Shotgun on the first screen and subsequently spent ten minutes trying to get the monsters to infight.  - Gameplay-wise, this feels like a step back from the last one. It's basically just an assortment of hallways populated with a few monsters. Nice to see some good Revenant use, though, and it works well enough as a denouément. Though having a single Archvile guard the exit is a bit underwhelming. Map 05 - It's a map, I guess? I'm not sure why this exists, honestly. Is there some technical limitation that prevents you from putting the text at the end of map 04? Overall, it's an enjoyable romp, though map 02 and 03 definitely stand out compared to the other two.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:49
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Samuel Clemens posted:Bioshock's gameplay is also fairly clunky. 2 made a lot of subtle, but very welcome changes, which add a lot to the combat experience. This is exactly why Bioshock 2 is the best. There are legitimate complaints you can levy against the story and atmosphere, but the gunplay is hugely improved and the plasmids are integrated better too. It's a great example of a sequel done right.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:54
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I didn't think the atmosphere was poorly done in BioShock 2. By that point Rapture was on its last legs. I think it was supposed to feel empty.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:06
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Convex posted:Also infinite only let you carry 2 weapons at once, despite both earlier games letting you carry everything. I have no idea why they did that, it was no fun and also not very realistic considering the game took place in a magical floating city in the sky bioshock infinite only lets you carry two weapons, but also has intermediate weapon upgrade stations. the weapon upgrades applied to every weapon you picked up. its odd and it doesn't even really provide much of a positive gameplay benefit either cause there was no guarantee you'd even be able to use your upgrades, the weapons that a level contained were preset. i remember the later levels of the game were pretty bad in not containing a diversity of ammunition so you were forced to use guns you hadn't upgraded. i think that kind of flaw is indicative of most every problem with infinite. there are so many things that simply don't work for no good reason. the entire game is littered with problems.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:15
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Samuel Clemens posted:I don't know if your friend actually reads this thread, but I've got some thoughts on the Wad I figured I'd share. Played it in GZDoom, on UV, with pistol starts. Yes, he does check this thread once in a while. I just sent him a link to your post anyway. Thanks a lot! Samuel Clemens posted:- I like the little message you get when you straferun to one of the ledges. He congratulates you for this.  Samuel Clemens posted:Map 05 Map 05 exists because Map 04 has 2 exits (finishing it in Nightmare). You can't have one text on the normal exit and another on the secret exit.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:20
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RyokoTK posted:This is exactly why Bioshock 2 is the best. There are legitimate complaints you can levy against the story and atmosphere, but the gunplay is hugely improved and the plasmids are integrated better too. I actually found the story in Bioshock 2 more engaging as well, but that's partly because its themes resonated a lot more with me on a personal level. I don't even remember what Infinite's plot was. Something about racism, but also time travel? Edit: Negrostrike posted:Map 05 exists because Map 04 has 2 exits (finishing it in Nightmare). You can't have one text on the normal exit and another on the secret exit. Oh, neat, guess I gotta give it another try then. It's rare that PWADs give any thought to Nightmare difficulty.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:21
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I found the stuff towards the end with Elizabeth very moving in Bioshock Infinite, but then I'm a wet blanket. Also lol at the guy suggesting Infinite was the one to add bulletsponge enemies to the series - that's all each one of the games is made up of after each respective halfway point, if not before.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:31
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A couple of Bioshock Infinite's problems (weapon limit, the shield system) boil down to it being in development during a generation where Call of Duty Modern Warfare came out and everyone was still trying to chase those 5+ million sales by aping its basic gameplay systems. The game had a couple of changes done to pander to a larger demographic, you only have to look up the cover art kerfuffle and Levine's recent interview. The franchise suffers from the Popular Game syndrome where ~~they were bad all along~~ according to people online, but I think all 3 are worth playing. There hasn't been any FPS like them in terms of atmosphere and gameplay in the last two generations, except for maybe Wolfenstein The New Order.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:33
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haveblue posted:It's not garbage, it's just that there's a very clear point where the game should have ended (about 2/3 of the way through, as said) but it inexplicably continues for another third that muddies up all the cool themes and plot it's been building while the impact of the very clear point fades away. …and then they decided that the sequel should be that third part stretched out into a full game, with less interesting narrative and characters. But at least the combat was a bit better. So overall, SS2 >>> BS1 > BS2 > there is no other game in the series.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:39
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The Minerva's Den DLC for #2 is pretty great though.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:42
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I was never terribly impressed with the first Bioshock, I never got too far into it. I greatly preferred SS2, and I felt that for being a spiritual successor, Bioshock was just lacking in everything but looking nice. But I've been meaning to try it again and see if it's grown on me, especially with the remastered version that's out now (and I got for free since I got a copy of Bioshock cheap in a Humble Bundle, with 2 as well, but no Minerva's Den). Or at least, after they patch the remastered version. I've heard that the remastered version has a bunch of bugs that got patched out of the original, and one of the things I wanted to know was about proper widescreen, because at least originally, it just cut off the top and bottom of the screen. Did that get fixed? Does the remastered version do that or does it have proper Hor+? I haven't played 2, but I found Infinite to be ok, but better when it was doing dimensional travel stuff than when it was trying to be a moving father/daughter story. I thought the end was super lame.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:44
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I quite liked Bioshock 1. What's so bad about it? The combat's really clunky, the plot/characterisation is really dumb (whereas 2's is decent, for a video game), and it makes really poor use of Rapture as a setting to explore what it claims is its theme (how objectivism is bad) because it doesn't actually show you any inhabited areas until the upmarket residential quarter near the end of the game. I mean, yeah, garbage is an exaggeration, it's just mediocre and really dumb.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:48
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Rather Dashing posted:The Minerva's Den DLC for #2 is pretty great though. That is true. Speaking of which (ehm… yes), I need to play through Bioforge again, even though it's third-person and doesn't belong in this thread.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:50
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I enjoyed the first Bioshock until the twist and it went all downhill from there.
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Sep 22, 2016 21:53
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Lemon-Lime posted:and it makes really poor use of Rapture as a setting to explore what it claims is its theme (how objectivism is bad) because it doesn't actually show you any inhabited areas until the upmarket residential quarter near the end of the game. No way. The audio logs beat the poo poo out of the sequel and all the splicers are directly related to the civil war in some way. You see the immediate aftermath of Rapture's downfall and everything's kind of frozen in time with splicers doing random poo poo before you provoke them. I can't deny the sequel is a better playing game but nothing about it really resonated with me. All the scripted moments felt rehashed, they even reused the dancing houdini splicers but kind of gently caress it up because the beauty of that scene is they would ignore you unless you attacked them.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:05
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I didn't even hold out long enough to reach the twist. I think I've had it spoiled for me since then, but that's about it.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:06
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Samuel Clemens posted:I actually found the story in Bioshock 2 more engaging as well, but that's partly because its themes resonated a lot more with me on a personal level. The thing that really soured me on Infinite's story was the condemnation of the populist movement because in an alternate timeline they get the advantage and fight back against their oppressors. Booker even said something like "they're no different than the slave masters" seriously gently caress Booker. What an unlikable prick, holy poo poo. Hey oppressed people murdered in their own homes, I sympathize with you... until you get the upper hand then you can eat a dick.
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Sep 22, 2016 22:08
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al-azad posted:The thing that really soured me on Infinite's story was the condemnation of the populist movement because in an alternate timeline they get the advantage and fight back against their oppressors. Booker even said something like "they're no different than the slave masters" seriously gently caress Booker. What an unlikable prick, holy poo poo. Hey oppressed people murdered in their own homes, I sympathize with you... until you get the upper hand then you can eat a dick. Yeah I managed to repress that whole thing somehow. 
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Sep 22, 2016 22:49
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I still haven't gotten very far in Infinite, but I gotta say, I think I'd rather do a replay of 2 before going back to it.
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Sep 22, 2016 23:17
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al-azad posted:The thing that really soured me on Infinite's story was the condemnation of the populist movement because in an alternate timeline they get the advantage and fight back against their oppressors. Booker even said something like "they're no different than the slave masters" seriously gently caress Booker. What an unlikable prick, holy poo poo. Hey oppressed people murdered in their own homes, I sympathize with you... until you get the upper hand then you can eat a dick. Actually that's smart, by video game standards. That extra step after where most game stories end (if you're lucky, sometimes it takes several games just to arrive there), that's Levine's main trick, I think. The revolution in Infinite having both socialist and race components is a brave choice also.
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Sep 22, 2016 23:21
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al-azad posted:The thing that really soured me on Infinite's story was the condemnation of the populist movement because in an alternate timeline they get the advantage and fight back against their oppressors. Booker even said something like "they're no different than the slave masters" seriously gently caress Booker. What an unlikable prick, holy poo poo. Hey oppressed people murdered in their own homes, I sympathize with you... until you get the upper hand then you can eat a dick. Actually now that I've got a bug up my rear end about that, that whole thing could have worked if the game didn't quietly say "this is a correct thing to think" because Booker is already kind of an unreliable narrator and a lovely dude, but no the narrative clearly sides with him on this.
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Sep 22, 2016 23:37
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I never even got that far, the dull combat and the totally linear level design had me tuning out long before then. It's one big violent Disneyland attraction. 
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Sep 22, 2016 23:55
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Glagha posted:Actually now that I've got a bug up my rear end about that, that whole thing could have worked if the game didn't quietly say "this is a correct thing to think" because Booker is already kind of an unreliable narrator and a lovely dude, but no the narrative clearly sides with him on this. Exactly. It's a fine idea worth exploring, revolution is bloody for both sides, and video games are usually about indiscriminate killing which you've been doing the past 8 hours. But having the player's mouth piece (who is also a horrible murderer) tell the audience so bluntly I just gave up caring about the game. The icing is that you get to this point in the game by trying to rescue a person who is brutally tortured and murdered in another timeline.
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Sep 23, 2016 00:05
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loga mira posted:Actually that's smart, by video game standards. That extra step after where most game stories end (if you're lucky, sometimes it takes several games just to arrive there), that's Levine's main trick, I think. The revolution in Infinite having both socialist and race components is a brave choice also. Everything we know indicates that Levine 100% thinks that "black people who rise up against their slave masters are exactly as bad as the slavers" is incisive social commentary.
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Sep 23, 2016 00:09
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Infinite's DLC is good in my opinion. Hell, I can say that I liked all three Bioshock games a lot. I listened to all audio logs and love the ambience. I still rate 2 and Minerva over 1 and Infinite but I admit that I'll end getting the remaster and do a full playthrough of them. Let's see if there's less texture streaming and bioshock 2 audio issues got fixed.
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Sep 23, 2016 00:14
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Lemon-Lime posted:Everything we know indicates that Levine 100% thinks that "black people who rise up against their slave masters are exactly as bad as the slavers" is incisive social commentary. No. Is this really the reaction this game deserves? It may not be super thought-provoking, but for some kid who's happy playing xenophobia shooters, that stuff could be eye-opening. That is good, there should be more games like that. And the ideas expressed aren't exactly extreme or even partisan, how can anyone be seriously offended by it? And it actually ruffled some hardcore pinko feathers, check this out https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/17/bios-a17.html While it may seem like he's criticizing the game for being wishy-washy liberal crap, which it is, in fact he's annoyed at the way the rebellion is presented, because it's an image these people would like to see fade away.
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Sep 23, 2016 00:42
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loga mira posted:No. I agree what you're saying but if you're calling games like CoD and BF "xenophobia shooters" then you haven't actually played the games. Like 70% or so of the people who buy a Call of Duty game don't even touch the single player (if usage statistics for the first Black Ops are anything to go by) and the "xenophobia" bits were mainly just a couple levels in MW2 where it didn't have much to do with the campaign narrative in the long run. People only tolerated the BF campaigns because there were weapon unlocks hidden behind them.
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Sep 23, 2016 01:16
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As far as Bioshock Infinite being wishy-washy liberal crap goes, they have the game's number. WSWS is a Trotskyist website so their oddly specific complaint about how the game portrays anarchism has more to do with sectarianism than anything else.
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Sep 23, 2016 01:21
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al-azad posted:The thing that really soured me on Infinite's story was the condemnation of the populist movement because in an alternate timeline they get the advantage and fight back against their oppressors. Booker even said something like "they're no different than the slave masters" seriously gently caress Booker. What an unlikable prick, holy poo poo. Hey oppressed people murdered in their own homes, I sympathize with you... until you get the upper hand then you can eat a dick. When did he say this edit: Seriously, you're straight-up making this up. Booker doesn't like the vox populi but he absolutely sympathizes with them even when they're trying to shoot at him. further edit: Of course, that's until they jump realities a second time and Daisy Fitzroy turns against him because Booker is dead in that universe- then he's wholly against them because they're still shooting at him and her reasoning doesn't quite count for people who can hop between universes. He's not against their cause (the reason the game even lets you decide not to huck the baseball at the start of the game is because Booker doesn't believe in the stuff the citizens of Columbia do), he's against the fact they want to kill him. He does not care one way or another about their brutalizing of Columbia's citizens and he says as much when he's dealing with Fitzroy in person at the end. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 01:31
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a retard posted:I agree what you're saying but if you're calling games like CoD and BF "xenophobia shooters" then you haven't actually played the games. That's probably not a discussion for this thread. For what it's worth, I don't think those games are harmful, they just add to the noise of conflicting messages in media that makes people so apathetic. Whereas Infinite may help someone notice a pattern in what's going on in the world, as simple as it may be. Bathtub Cheese posted:As far as Bioshock Infinite being wishy-washy liberal crap goes, they have the game's number. WSWS is a Trotskyist website so their oddly specific complaint about how the game portrays anarchism has more to do with sectarianism than anything else. I've read some more commie impressions and they are all kinda funny, but also way more measured than what people ITT have to say about the story.
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Sep 23, 2016 01:55
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catlord posted:I've heard that the remastered version has a bunch of bugs that got patched out of the original, and one of the things I wanted to know was about proper widescreen, because at least originally, it just cut off the top and bottom of the screen. Did that get fixed? Does the remastered version do that or does it have proper Hor+? Movies occasionally do this too, or at least they used to when 4:3 TVs ruled the land. The director's preference might be some widescreen ratio, but they sometimes shoot it so it's "safe" for 4:3 (i.e. no boom mikes or cables on the top/bottom parts of the frame). The fullscreen version actually shows more than the widescreen version, but there's nothing interesting going on in the extra space. This is preferable to the infamous pan-and-scan.
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Sep 23, 2016 02:02
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CJacobs posted:When did he say this I don't care enough to go through that entire section of the game to find the quote but at one point you witness the Vox Populi doing something like attacking civilians. Booker says something along the lines of "They're just as bad as the Founders" which Elizabeth agrees with because they happen to be holding a random kid hostage. e: just going through the game's wiki to refresh my memory I come across this "Once revolution breaks out in Columbia, the Vox show their true colors. Driven by vengeance, they destroy entire portions of the city, and vandalize the rest, executing anyone standing in their way. They also torture innocent citizens they come across, inflicting upon them the same oppression they lived through. Vox Populi members can be seen murdering civilians in Emporia." Whether or not this is the message the game's writers were trying to convey, it's how some people clearly interpreted it. Even in this alternate timeline where the Vox Populi are still the oppressed minority, the fact that there's collateral damage is evidence that they're horrible people. This is in a universe where civilian and soldier are blurred because anyone can drink a magic potion to become a super soldier. e: found it! When going up the elevator Booker says "Only difference between Comstock and Fitzroy is how you spell the name." Ooh boy, the line is even worse than I thought al-azad fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 02:05
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I loved the question Rolling Stone put to Levine in their recent interview:quote:"You created a game in which Donald Trump founded a xenophobic colony in the sky, only to learn that the Mexicans really are rapists." 
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Sep 23, 2016 02:25
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Woolie Wool posted:I never even got that far, the dull combat and the totally linear level design had me tuning out long before then. It's one big violent Disneyland attraction. I might as well have written this post. This is exactly what how I felt, with the addition of the story not being interesting to me in the least.
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Sep 23, 2016 02:28
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al-azad posted:I don't care enough to go through that entire section of the game to find the quote but at one point you witness the Vox Populi doing something like attacking civilians. Booker says something along the lines of "They're just as bad as the Founders" which Elizabeth agrees with because they happen to be holding a random kid hostage. Comstock and Fitzroy are both brutal leaders in different ways; Comstock through oppression and Fitzroy through raw violence. It's almost as if the moral was "everyone can be bad" and not just "racism is bad". loga mira is correct when they said it's beyond the scope of the thread so I won't argue the point any further, I just want to say that the point the game is trying to make there is that being the oppressed minority doesn't automatically make you the good guy. edit: Also, "these two specific people are bad people" is incredibly different from "the slaves are just as bad as their masters" and you really ought to look up stuff like that before just saying it.
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Sep 23, 2016 02:34
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The point is that moral is loving dumb as hell, mate.
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Sep 23, 2016 02:43
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CJacobs posted:Comstock and Fitzroy are both brutal leaders in different ways; Comstock through oppression and Fitzroy through raw violence. It's almost as if the moral was "everyone can be bad" and not just "racism is bad". loga mira is correct when they said it's beyond the scope of the thread so I won't argue the point any further, I just want to say that the point the game is trying to make there is that being the oppressed minority doesn't automatically make you the good guy. And this is my problem with the game's morals, and I guess Levine's idea about morality after reading that Rolling Stone's interview. He explains it in this very black and white binary description, that you flip a switch and go from victim to villain overnight. And I understand where he's going about the cycle of violence but he loses me when he makes the connection that someone who built a whole city on hatred is the same as someone who wants to break free from the city is the dumbest poo poo. I want me another Spec Ops but that game killed the studio.
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Sep 23, 2016 02:57
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Woolie Wool posted:I never even got that far, the dull combat and the totally linear level design had me tuning out long before then. It's one big violent Disneyland attraction. I love Infinite's setting so much, especially on a visual level, but I never wanted to play that type of game in it. There's all these moments where you can wander around and see how people and things normally operate in Columbia without blasting things apart, and then the shooting starts up again and I'm just like ''oh  ".None of the characters really feel comfortable being in a CoD style shoot 'em up with thousands of elite troops and rebels getting killed by the hand of some tipsy ex-pinkerton agent and his shut-in magical disney princess teenage companion. I would have forgiven a lot if it was more like, say, the thief games. CJacobs posted:When did he say this He absolutely says something to the effect of 'they're no worse than Comstock' when him and Elizabeth are on an elevator surveying all of the destruction. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 03:02
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Mr. Flunchy posted:I loved the question Rolling Stone put to Levine in their recent interview: Haha holy gently caress.
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Sep 23, 2016 03:03
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I needed something funny to laugh at and thought of Assassin 2015. If any of you guys want to know where first person shooters would've gone if lovely 90s multimedia took off, here you go. If I ever beat this thing I'll do a full LP.
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Sep 23, 2016 03:10
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