|
MacheteZombie posted:You mean you don't receive the twice hourly CineD hivemind PMs? Yeah, SMG cut me off when I disagreed with him about Force Awakens. Which sucks, because I was really pumped way back when I first got invited to team up with everybody in pretending that Prometheus was good.
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 01:57 |
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Probably because it's loving ridiculous if it's true. It makes no sense. Aliens attack and now he decides that 20 years of being a hyper disciplined non lethal warrior was a bad idea. Superman is a threat, time to break my vow and kill some dudes This isn't what happens, at all. Here's an alternative reading: Batman is a guy who was put in a situation where he felt truly helpless, and people he loved suffered for it. So his entire persona became "I'm not going to ever let that happen again", trains himself, becomes classic Batman, tries to leave criminals alive (but in this world, a couple probably die in the hospital because it's impossible not to inadvertently kill somebody in the situations that Batman creates). You know this because the Birth of Batman scene in BvS pretty much makes him A Superman (not THE Superman, but visually he's flying and symbolic). So, the point is, he's pretty much comic book Batman, albeit more fragile psychologically because, again, this is a more 'real' world where watching your sidekick get murdered and fighting an endless war against Tony Montana in a purple coat is going to take its toll. But overall - Batman. Then Superman comes, and Wayne employees die and a little girl loses her parents, and Batman is thrown back into that exact mindset that he had the night his parents were murdered - he's helpless, he's powerless, this guy can burn it all down, yeah he's nicer now but look at all the people who have gone bad over the years, etc. This triggers a period of introspection where he beats himself up for not conquering crime, not succeeding, he did a bad job, etc. He externalizes all that guilt for getting Robin killed, not ending crime, any mistakes he's made - on Superman, and now Superman Must Die. "This may be the only important thing I do." And so we enter an "ends justify the means" Batman career, where he doesn't go full Punisher but his floor for preserving life has dropped EXTREMELY low. Mess with Batman, and he neutralizes you. If you die, you die. And of course Superman does the exact wrong thing when he confronts him - shows up, breaks his toy, tells him to knock it off, and doesn't even stick around to hear the punchline threat he delivers. Emphasizes Batman's powerlessness. And we literally see, in the following scene, that Batman is regressing into a petulant child. He angrily gets out of the Batmobile and stomps over to his computer to surf for Kryptonite. Of course the big point in the movie is when Batman realizes that instead of killing Joe Chill, HE is Joe Chill. This is the entire fulcrum of his character change - when he realizes that he and Superman are the same, and that neither of them are corruptible, and that he has become an executioner for imagined thought- and future-crimes. That shared connection makes Batman put down the spear and solemnly swear that Superman won't feel the pain he has. "I swear to you - Martha won't die tonight." Superman recognizes this shared connection, nods, and then we get the most narratively satisfying scene in the film - the newly baptized Batman (it's no coincidence it's raining during his fight with Superman) regains his purity of purposes and smashes his way through a bunch of garbage mercs to save an innocent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, SMG cut me off when I disagreed with him about Force Awakens. Which sucks, because I was really pumped way back when I first got invited to team up with everybody in pretending that Prometheus was good. But Prometheus was great?
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
Red posted:But Prometheus was great? Prometheus was my favorite movie that year but I knew I would be in the minority opinion when the Engineer tore off an android's head and beat an old man to death with it and I was the only one in the theatre laughing my rear end off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:45
|
|
|
Sir Kodiak posted:Yeah, SMG cut me off when I disagreed with him about Force Awakens. Which sucks, because I was really pumped way back when I first got invited to team up with everybody in pretending that Prometheus was good. I liked Prometheus. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:48
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I liked Prometheus. So did Kodiak, he's making a joke.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:52
|
|
|
LesterGroans posted:So did Kodiak, he's making a joke. I'm glad that's not the reason the PMs stopped coming then
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:52
|
|
|
On the balance I didn't like Prometheus but I will say that the thread about it significantly improved my opinion on it from "worthless" to "interesting". Good job hivemind.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:53
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:I'm glad that's not the reason the PMs stopped coming then So am I. I live and die by them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 16:55
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:Stark sensed that the status quo was changing and decided to adapt early so that he could gain a position of high influence in the new order, and shape the system to suit his desires. This is how an industrialist typically thinks and is actually the smart thing to do. Honestly I think Cap is the foolish one. The disaster at the airport happens because Cap badly wants to believe that his best friend is not a brainwashed Hydra agent who is possibly manipulating him in order to flee the authorities. You're on the right track. In the first Iron Man film, Tony is appalled at the fact that the terrorists are using Stark-built weapons. He does have a genuine sense of guilt, but more than anything, Tony is scared shitless by his loss of control. The first thing he does when he returns to the US is shut down weapons manufacturing - but he builds a flying suit of armor to fight, which is a weapon. This makes Obadiah Stane take action, because he sees Tony trying to retake control. Stane didn't realize that challenging Tony's control would end badly for him - he should've just kept Tony complacent with women and booze. Iron Man 2 sees Tony become complacent, and is forced to retake control of his life. Iron Man 3, I have no idea, because that thing was a pile of poo poo. Avengers shows that Tony struggles to relinquish control to his equals, and, oddly enough, is fascinated with Bruce's ability to maintain some measure of control of the Hulk personality. In Age of Ultron, Tony creates the Ultron problem through his obsession with control. Edit: He learns absolutely nothing from his mistake and helps build Vision. In Civil War, Tony is approached by the mother of a dead aid worker, and feels remorse - but again, is more terrified at his inability to control threats and how the Avengers respond. Accepting the accords means Tony will have some measure of control. He can see that Cap is the true leader of the Avengers, through inspiration and friendships. When he tries to assert control through the battle at the airport, he loses the only real relationship he has left, when Rhodes is seriously injured. With nothing tying him down, he goes into 'gently caress you' mode after Cap and Bucky. What reinforces this whole concept is that he lost his parents when he was younger, and ignores real life through partying. Only when shown the results of his inattentiveness to Stane's dealings does he come around. We can tell that losing his parents affected him deeply, because he basically invents a better last memory with them, and is crushed by the fact he was powerless to help them. These circumstances have created a dangerous individual who overcompensates and obsesses with everything - his salvation will be creating bonds with others and developing trust.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:00
|
|
|
I am fond of the way AoU ends with Tony learning nothing and doubling down on his megalomania. "Yeah, I almost caused an extinction event, but whaddaya gonna do? Not try to fix everything and control everything with my genius and money?"
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:12
|
|
|
I'm upset that talk about Emilia Clarke and terminator genisys was enough to get me to watch that pile of trash and yes she's made up/costumed in a way to show her having baby fat which is weird since she was 27 at the time of filming. speaking of fitness the only scene I liked was seeing jai Courtneys ripped body and realizing he was roughly 1/3rd the size of prime Arnold. I could watch a movie about naked 1984 Arnold walking around la all day but just instead I'll just have to make do with pumping iron
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:speaking of fitness the only scene I liked was seeing jai Courtneys ripped body and realizing he was roughly 1/3rd the size of prime Arnold.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9zCgPtsups
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:35
|
|
|
LesterGroans posted:So am I. I live and die by them. How do I get added to these PMs? Do I have to see Chappie and think it's good, or something?
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:38
|
|
|
Terrorist Fistbump posted:How do I get added to these PMs? Do I have to see Chappie and think it's good, or something? 15/05/11 - ABANDONED GRAIN ELEVATOR is required viewing.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
Terrorist Fistbump posted:How do I get added to these PMs? Do I have to see Chappie and think it's good, or something? You gotta swear fealty to at least three of the following five things: - The DC Extended Universe - The Transformers series - The Star Wars prequels - Prometheus - The Twilight series Four if you want to be a capo, all five if you want to be a don
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:52
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:You gotta swear fealty to at least three of the following five things: Aren't there a few other things we can add? I can only swear fealty to two of those things. What about BvS? Edit: Oh poo poo its on there, I missed it. Hell yea I'm in!
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:You gotta swear fealty to at least three of the following five things:
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:55
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:You gotta swear fealty to at least three of the following five things: Found Footage movies should probably be in there as well.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
I don't get why people hate Iron Man 3. It's the best movie with Iron Man in it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:You gotta swear fealty to at least three of the following five things: If CineD had a wartime consigliere, a Sicilian, we wouldn't be in this shape!
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:56
|
|
|
LesterGroans posted:If CineD had a wartime consigliere, a Sicilian, we wouldn't be in this shape! It's okay the great war between CineD and the rest of the internet will be ending soon when SA breaks the movie subforum in half, like an occupied Berlin.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
MacheteZombie posted:Found Footage movies should probably be in there as well. Adding them would make me six for six, at which point I start to get a little self-conscious
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 17:59
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:Adding them would make me six for six, at which point I start to get a little self-conscious Please don't be, Lord Commander
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:00
|
|
|
greatn posted:I don't get why people hate Iron Man 3. It's the best movie with Iron Man in it. No Vanko, no sale. MacheteZombie posted:15/05/11 - ABANDONED GRAIN ELEVATOR is required viewing. Yessss
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:01
|
|
|
Kurzon posted:I thought the same thing too but it wouldn't have worked. Had Stark defied the Sokovia Accords, his superhero career would have been over because the government would have seized all his assets, including his basement Iron Man factory. This is the problem when the source of your powers is money. Whereas Cap has his in his blood and can go be a superhero in the jungle or wherever. Black Panther may even give him a new vibranium shield. I think there is enough in the preceding movies to justify this switch. Stark feels guilty about loving up over Ultron, Cap got burned by Hydra's infiltration of SHIELD. Neither of their views are entirely reasonable but that is the tragedy of the hero. But as a counterpoint, Iron Man was born in a cave with scraps. In the comics, Tony has had to rebuild his fortune a few of times, I think he's sort of semi-officially given the reins of Stark International over to Pepper, too, in IM2. A reveal that he's so forward-thinking (or paranoid) that since IM3 he's been secretly prepping for a day he might have to go underground to escape enemies wouldn't be so far fetched. Stark's assets maybe end up being seized by folks like Roxxon, Hammer, etc. Tony going from the target/hostage of secret terrorists to becoming a hunted terrorist himself could have been a way to turn it..
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:06
|
|
|
Jenny Angel posted:You gotta swear fealty to at least three of the following five things: *sad Incredible Hulk music starts playing* I guess I'll see myself out, then.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:This isn't what happens, at all. Here's an alternative reading: This is the exact reading of the film I had. Karloff posted:the visuals clearly show a Superman distant from the people he rescues ... a figure who dangles above people in superiority. Isn't that the entire point of the flood scene? It's like 10 seconds long and in slow motion, so I assumed he actually floated up in the sky for like 2 or 3 seconds to survey the scene before acting and saving everyone. But we see him from the flood victim's perspective: as a shape in the sky, beaming down from the sun like a religious figure there to save them. He's not a man, he's not a human, he's an angel sent to save us all. We're not seeing him from the perspective of the movie viewer, we're seeing him from the perspective of someone in the middle of a tragedy about to be saved by a flying angelic white man from the sky. That's one of the big points of the film as others have outlined: he doesn't feel like a man because he's treated like an angel (or demon). Edit: Each of the heroic scene in the montage plays out a different aspect of Clark's feelings of being Superman.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
greatn posted:I don't get why people hate Iron Man 3. It's the best movie with Iron Man in it. It's a bad Saturday morning cartoon that does its best to separate Tony from the armor. It largely ignores logic and common sense. The villain is a generic scowling nyah-ah-ah type. The worst part is, it's punctuated by Tony going, "Oh gently caress it, I'll just get the surgery." gently caress that movie.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
Iron Man 3 was a pretty good movie, though I never got around to watching it again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:31
|
|
|
Karloff posted:Re-read my post. I explain what bolded means the very sentence after, you see how that works? I make a statement, then I back it up and with the film in the next sentence after. You don't, though. You don't actually back up the "shorn of context and clarity" thing. Firstly, it's wrong in the most straightforward sense: we have a context (Batman lives in Gotham and protects it; dirty bombs are bad) and clarity (Batman explicitly tells us why he wants the ship). It seems that your problem is, as with the Luthor thing you were talking about earlier, you yourself were fooled - just as Batman tricked Alfred, he tricked you! But that's good. That's the point. It's actually part of the movie's drama that Batman turns out to have been thinking like Luthor, or at least to have been thinking like the senators Luthor himself was tricking. There's no real reason Batman should've told Alfred he was after an anti-Superman deterrence weapon all along, and actually it makes a lot of sense that he didn't because he obviously likes and respects Alfred while Alfred obviously likes and respects Superman. Maybe Batman wasn't even admitting the truth to himself! Either way, your criticism just doesn't cut it - it's not true that it would've been more interesting to know what was going on all along, and it's also not true that Batman's stated plan was somehow random, arbitrary, or nonsensical, because stopping a dirty bomb from entering Gotham is just what you and Alfred would expect Batman to do. To be clear, I'm not making fun of you for missing an obvious detail or something. I, too, believed that Batman was just trying to stop some run of the mill criminals and that he'd end up tripping over or stumbling onto a Luthor plot in the process. I was right there with you and Alfred staring in shock as Batman revealed his true intentions. It's just... that's fine. It's perfectly fine. It's okay if, in a movie, a character says one thing but thinks a different thing. quote:All you all have done is convince me how right I am, because rather than tackle my arguments or say anything interesting at all you just raise some sort of half-baked, insecure reason why anyone who dislikes Batman v Superman has some alternative agenda, whether it's "NOT MY BATMAN" or something else, or that my arguments just aren't communicative at all, or you say they're "innacurate" and fail to elaborate upon why. The sheer madness of you accusing me of accusing you all of loving a "PSYCHO BATMAN", which was a comment in response to you all saying "that anyone who doesn't like murder Bat just wants to vicariously experience violence without the real life responsibility" is hypocrisy of the highest order, I can barely comprehend it. It looks like BravestOfTheLamps is taking care of this one, but yes, you definitely are. And hell, there's nothing wrong with loving PSYCHO BATMAN. The problem is loving or rejecting something without allowing yourself to analyze it, which you are doing here. quote:The very fact that you think Batman v Superman is a commentary on violence at all, and bring up no evidence to back this terrible assertion up is damning in and of itself. Okay, I took "has no import or function on anything else in the film" as "just bad" because I couldn't believe you were being serious. I thought it was empty hyperbole. You're drawing a distinction between scenes that affect the plot and scenes that don't... but all scenes affect the plot. Batman's nightmare affected the plot. No, it did not affect the plot by giving him a piece of prophetic advice which he'd dramatically use later, it affected the plot by demonstrating how he felt. Batman is a character in the movie, and so the thoughts he thinks or the fantasies he envisions are important to the movie. They establish his character (and his relation to violence, incidentally; you can see that in the end times, when Superman is an open tyrant, Batman's actually just carrying a gun on his person, which is a step behind just having guns on his car which pretty much every incarnation of Batman does) just as much as the scenes in which he's terrifying drug traffickers or schmoozing with richies. Now, maybe it's your preference for scenes like that to much more literally foreshadow things, such that Batman prophetically receives some piece of concrete tactical info that he dramatically remembers and uses later. I think that would've been too on the nose, but whatever, different strokes. It's still asinine for you to conclude that because the scene was about illustrating a character's mindset rather than arming the character with hidden information, it did literally nothing, and therefore that people only liked the scene because it was a power fantasy relating to killing people with guns. Like, that's seriously crazy. Knightmare Batman as a power fantasy? You understand that that was the character at his lowest possible point being defeated in every possible way, right? You noticed how he just got loving played and chumped and finally disintegrated? Power fantasy??? I think you're actually empathizing with Batman too much. I think you're somehow internalizing the forbidden allure that guns have for Batman, such that if you see other people praising a scene that happens to involve Batman using a gun you assume that those people must have fallen to the temptation that you and Batman are resisting. Like we're hapless birds and blowing people's heads off is a swaying cobra.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:33
|
|
|
Megaman's Jockstrap posted:You know this because the Birth of Batman scene in BvS pretty much makes him A Superman (not THE Superman, but visually he's flying and symbolic). So, the point is, he's pretty much comic book Batman, albeit more fragile psychologically because, again, this is a more 'real' world where watching your sidekick get murdered and fighting an endless war against Tony Montana in a purple coat is going to take its toll. But overall - Batman. Probably only in hindsight can you realize you need this, but a quick montage of Batman catching his famous criminals would have been helpful for comic fans. Mirror Superman's heroic montage with one of Batman catching members of his rogue's gallery and showing them alive. Also mirroring each other, I thought it might have been neat if in the beginning desert scene when the war lord has a gun to Lois and says "I'll kill her!", Superman would reply "I believe you" just before he saves her just like Batman does when saving Martha Kent. This also could have been terribly corny, I'm not sure. ALSO, does Superman (edit: accidentally said Batman here) talk in this universe? I kinda got the impression he's never actually spoken to humanity at large and only said small things to people he has directly interfaced with one on one. It felt like that was one of the big things about him going to congress. "He'll finally speak and explain himself!" Violator fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Sep 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:37
|
|
|
Important reminder:
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:39
|
|
|
I know what'd be cool. Ten more loving pages about Batman and his killing/no killing rule. It's captivating. Can we just make a thread to deal specifically with that subject?
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:Important reminder: That's not the real Nightmare Batman.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:40
|
|
|
Man, I checked out of Transformers after the first movie and there is apparently a 5th one coming out soon. What exactly happened in the last 3 movies that ended up with time traveling Hitler, Magic being real, humans having sex with transformers, and racist talking dinosaurs? I don't remember any of this from the toys or cartoons.quote:Optimus Prime is on a quest to restore Cybertron to its former glory. To do that, he needs to find an ancient Cybertronian artifact that gave Merlin his magic powers centuries ago. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/sep/23/anger-churchill-home-turned-hitler-hq-transformers-5-michael-bay-swastika-flags quote:The conversion of Winston Churchill’s former home into the swastika-draped headquarters of Adolf Hitler for a Transformers movie has been denounced by veterans’ groups and former military commanders. quote:Another controversial scene involves a human (Josh Duhamel) being seduced by an incognito Transformer and the resulting love scene. This sentence is amazing. quote:Ken Watanabe returns as Drift, a Samurai robot who has mastered the ancient art of swordplay and can transform into a helicopter, who has been criticized for promoting stereotypes about Asian peoples. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:41
|
|
|
Violator posted:
He told humanity what the S means.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:47
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:He told humanity what the S means. Do the people know that or just the military? Like I don't think he's ever shown actually talking with large groups of civilians. He's spoken to Lois and the military (when forced). What I'm getting at is that I'm guessing Superman doesn't speak to people very often, and that helps people project onto him what they want him to be. Instead, his quality of character is defined by the media and how they report on him. Which, in Metropolis, is good. But is probably bad elsewhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:51
|
|
|
Violator posted:ALSO, does Superman (edit: accidentally said Batman here) talk in this universe? I kinda got the impression he's never actually spoken to humanity at large and only said small things to people he has directly interfaced with one on one. It felt like that was one of the big things about him going to congress. "He'll finally speak and explain himself!" It's not definitively resolved, but it's strongly implied that he says very little/nothing and simply intervenes and leaves. Probably because of the messianic worship - anything he could/would say could be misinterpreted by some people as literally The Word Of God. That's kind of a theme of the movie - unless it's Lois, Superman is hesitant because of fear/indecision. Whereas that same fear/indecision drives Batman into a foolish crusade. Interestingly enough, when he's Clark, Superman dives right in there. He wants to get in that congressional witness's face and explain himself.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 01:57 |
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:He told humanity what the S means. It's not an S, it's a symbol. On my planet it means Superman.
|
|
#
?
Sep 23, 2016 18:54
|
|