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PT6A posted:Because unless you're paying attention and thinking critically about things, you may not know or you may have been lied to about what HB2 actually does, and why it's bad. Given how much Republicans have been  muh states rights ever since the Southern Strategy, the only slightly non-animus justification for HB2 is kinda shot.iospace posted:[*]For ideology (Very lib, somewhat lib, mod, someone con, very con) has a weird breakdown. Very Lib has the highest support of HB2 outside of the two con groupings, the highest oppose, and the least not sures at 21/73/6, and somewhat lib is 13/62/24, moderate 17/54/29, and somewhat and very con are 46/33/21 and 69/16/16 respectively. I wouldn't be surprised if there was the American TERF contingent self-described as "very liberal" for the purposes of polling; in the UK, most of them are in Labour, with about eight or so in the Green Party. Despite the fact their opinions on anyone who isn't a middle-class cis woman wouldn't be out of place in the Tories.
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Sep 22, 2016 20:08
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TinTower posted:I wouldn't be surprised if there was the American TERF contingent self-described as "very liberal" for the purposes of polling; in the UK, most of them are in Labour, with about eight or so in the Green Party. It's this. Extremely liberal women (straight and gay) who reject trans women's identities as being inauthentic. TERFs are honestly even more hateful than garden variety bigots; normal bigotry comes from ignorance and TERFs are generally well educated and extremely active in civil rights activism and absolutely have the resources to know better but choose not to out of some sort of "but they're not exactly like meeeeeeee" reaction.
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Sep 23, 2016 16:36
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There's a piece here about homophobia and transphobia on the left that also addresses some of what might be going on in the 'very liberal' set too. The first half of it also works as a good response to that dumbass 'Orthodox Marxist' guy who claimed that gay people are Uranians who use antiretrovirals to spread HIV to Africa to advance Jewish Freemasonry or whatever, that TinTower linked a while back. Not that he deserves a good response.
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Sep 23, 2016 17:33
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Guavanaut posted:There's a piece here about homophobia and transphobia on the left that also addresses some of what might be going on in the 'very liberal' set too. God, don't remind me. Good article though, thanks for sharing. I've seen too many leftists online denouncing identity politics as "a distraction from the real issues." gently caress off.
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Sep 23, 2016 19:48
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It's annoying and I don't really get why people do it. Marx was right about a lot of things, but while the history of all hitherto existing society may have been the history of (economic) class warfare, nowadays we have some other forms of conflict too that are going to need resolving. You can't shove all that back in the box because it's easier to think about that way.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:45
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NBCNews has polling for LGBT voters overwhelmingly supporting Clinton (72%), but I really want to meet the 20% of those polled saying they're supporting Trump. Outside of Thiel and Milo I can't really think of anybody publicly supporting him in that community.
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Sep 23, 2016 20:56
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Party Plane Jones posted:NBCNews has polling for LGBT voters overwhelmingly supporting Clinton (72%), but I really want to meet the 20% of those polled saying they're supporting Trump. Outside of Thiel and Milo I can't really think of anybody publicly supporting him in that community. Were the poll choices only Clinton and Trump? I know some people that have bought into the "where there is smoke there is fire" idea about all the 'scandals', but who are still very anti-trump
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Sep 23, 2016 21:26
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It's not that surprising. Log Cabin Republicans are a thing, and I've encountered my fare share of rich entitled gay males with a hefty dose of FYGM attitude. You really don't want to meet them. They're quite insufferable. And then with the the Pulse tragedy and ISIS regularly throwing gay people off buildings, some will fall prey to the evil muslims waging war on western culture fear mongering narrative.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:30
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Cocks Cable posted:It's not that surprising. Log Cabin Republicans are a thing, and I've encountered my fare share of rich entitled gay males with a hefty dose of FYGM attitude. You really don't want to meet them. They're quite insufferable. And then with the the Pulse tragedy and ISIS regularly throwing gay people off buildings, some will fall prey to the evil muslims waging war on western culture fear mongering narrative. Milo and Peter Thiel come to mind
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Sep 23, 2016 21:34
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Speaking of some old entitled gay males being horrible people, it's Bi Visibility Day today  , so I decided to see what people were saying about that, and the first thing I found was a piece with a link to some biphobic poo poo that happened just over a month ago.I don't get how you can be a member of standing in a community that was treated horrendously during the Western AIDS epidemic, and turn around and lay those same accusations at the feet of another LGBT subgroup who were also blamed. (Given his other comments it's probably just called "being a poo poo person" which knows no human boundaries.)
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Sep 24, 2016 00:38
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OwlFancier posted:It's annoying and I don't really get why people do it. Even Marxists need an infallible God and Savior to believe in. RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 02:44
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If you want that I think the efforts to promote intersectionality with LGBT/Feminist issues have far more promise and offer far more solace to the modern economic left than "let's pretend it's 1900 again".
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Sep 24, 2016 02:53
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OwlFancier posted:If you want that I think the efforts to promote intersectionality with LGBT/Feminist issues have far more promise and offer far more solace to the modern economic left than "let's pretend it's 1900 again". Not really, the "no war but class war" mantra is comforting because it says that their cause is the only one, and not only that, but once their cause is won, all other problems will melt away. It's a proverbial paradise and reaffirms just how important it is in their mind.
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Sep 24, 2016 02:56
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That's a bit... weird because chanting that mantra won't do anything to actually build society-wide support for the cause which is sort of what you need. You want an example of effective modern organizing and unity among people who are absolutely not natural allies, the LGBT community is right at the top of my list for who you look to. Marxism-as-religion is a bit of a weird one for me as I don't think I know anyone with that specific brand of insular crazy.
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Sep 24, 2016 02:59
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I've met more than I care to of Marxism as religion. The weirdest was the guy who told me by turning him down I was depriving society or some poo poo.
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Sep 24, 2016 03:12
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Trying desperately to come up with an "own the means of production" chatup line and failing. E: "Hey my dick is communally owned so long as you know how to work it!"
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Sep 24, 2016 03:17
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Just clarifying I don't think just everyone who subscribes to communism/Marxism is like that. I consider myself a communist, but there are some who go full crazy and thump Marx's work like an objectivist and rand.
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Sep 24, 2016 03:36
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RagnarokAngel posted:Not really, the "no war but class war" mantra is comforting because it says that their cause is the only one, and not only that, but once their cause is won, all other problems will melt away. It's a proverbial paradise and reaffirms just how important it is in their mind. That's not even what that slogan means and "our cause before yours" is a dumb strawman that has never accurately represented left opposition to identity politics. But of course if that's how the privilege-checkers of the world see things they're welcome to call the FBI as always.
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Sep 24, 2016 04:38
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spotlessd posted:That's not even what that slogan means and "our cause before yours" is a dumb strawman that has never accurately represented left opposition to identity politics. Right, the opposition is usually "your cause doesn't matter at all, and is in fact actively harmful".
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Sep 24, 2016 04:51
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drat those privilege checkers. drat them.
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Sep 24, 2016 05:32
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I'm fairly sure "privilege checkers" is just chess.
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Sep 24, 2016 06:55
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computer parts posted:Right, the opposition is usually "your cause doesn't matter at all, and is in fact actively harmful". I mean this is a perfectly true fact but you kind of trailed off there. Actively harmful to whom? Somehow people got the impression that debates around left identity politics are theoretical questions of strategy and priorities. That's bullshit. No one on the left side of that argument had any hope of resisting the self-appointed (brace yourself--they're all rich!) power brokers who put their normative politics in to practice over the objections of their more radical counterparts. It's a done deal. The only question is what happened next and that turns out to be pretty obvious if you're approach to history isn't as fuzzy and sloppy as the person who wrote that article but also just if you have any notion at all of what usually happens when you make a deal with Satan. Access to liberal institutions is great if you're a liberal who still thinks they can just bring in some folding chairs at some future date and get this tide a-risin' but no one who actually needs to see a doctor more than they need to get loving married is really holding their breath. Honestly its heartwarming to see the Tumblr crowd returning to their old redbaiting schtick in an election season but try to remember whose fault it actually is that we're fighting an incipient fascist insurgency in the first place.
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Sep 24, 2016 07:38
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You're kind of an idiot if you don't see the significant value in social and legal acceptance and how much they intertwine. When you're dead set on pushing them out you create your own enemy. It requires a special kind of audacity to claim access to a millenia old social institution which ties into so many different aspects of life is just those gays being uppity bourgeis who only care about "liberal institutions" and then say "hey guys remember the REAL enemy is!". It also is seriously misjudging the goal of the lgbt rights movement (hint: it's about way more than getting married). RagnarokAngel fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 09:30
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spotlessd posted:That's not even what that slogan means and "our cause before yours" is a dumb strawman that has never accurately represented left opposition to identity politics. But of course if that's how the privilege-checkers of the world see things they're welcome to call the FBI as always. spotlessd posted:I mean this is a perfectly true fact but you kind of trailed off there. Actively harmful to whom?
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Sep 24, 2016 09:42
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spotlessd posted:Honestly its heartwarming to see the Tumblr crowd returning to their old redbaiting schtick in an election season but try to remember whose fault it actually is that we're fighting an incipient fascist insurgency in the first place.
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Sep 24, 2016 10:59
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ThaumPenguin posted:I'm fairly sure "privilege checkers" is just chess. Just letting you know that this didn't go unnoticed ❤
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Sep 24, 2016 12:27
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ThaumPenguin posted:I'm fairly sure "privilege checkers" is just chess. 
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Sep 24, 2016 13:47
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I'm not sure it's the devious gays who are holding back the revolution, comrade. I mean it'd be flattering if that were so but it's not really true.
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Sep 24, 2016 15:07
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spotlessd posted:I mean this is a perfectly true fact but you kind of trailed off there. Actively harmful to whom? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States It's Wikipedia but BOOM. All the legal rights you get in the US when you are married. It's all stuff that you don't think matters till you try to start a family. LGBT people fighting for marriage rights is about normalizing LGBT people AND getting the same benefits straight married couples get. Fake edit: Go gently caress Yourself. Real edit: http://www.houstonpress.com/news/texas-high-court-judge-wants-to-deny-houston-gay-couples-marriage-benefits-8744089 here is a sneak peek of what the fight for marriage rights is going to look like in the next few years by the way. Courts and judges splitting hairs over a Surpreme Court decision over marriage rights and benefits. This is why this poo poo is important. This is the poo poo that he's people build their lives and form families. Fake edit: Suck my dick, You Fuckman. BigRed0427 fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 15:10
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Family support in general is one topic that a lot of internet leftists have a major blindspot for, probably due to lack of experience. Like between universal pre-K and free college tuition, take a guess at which one will actually help more poor people.
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Sep 24, 2016 15:18
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Party Plane Jones posted:NBCNews has polling for LGBT voters overwhelmingly supporting Clinton (72%), but I really want to meet the 20% of those polled saying they're supporting Trump. Outside of Thiel and Milo I can't really think of anybody publicly supporting him in that community. I know one. He's from Dallas (  of course), and he is a huge Trump supporter because he is a massive racist who is tired of quote "ignorant African Americans acting up and getting themselves shot by police". Doesn't help that his husband is a cop. Whenever anyone points out how horrible Trump is going to be for gay rights, he answers "I'm not a single-issue voter."It's loving weird but living in Texas you meet plenty of super-racist gay people who know what it's like to be pre-judged by rear end in a top hat bigots and treated like poo poo for who they are, yet have no introspection and are completely incapable of analogizing the injustice they experience with the injustice other groups experience 
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Sep 24, 2016 15:37
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computer parts posted:Family support in general is one topic that a lot of internet leftists have a major blindspot for, probably due to lack of experience. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't both help equally? I mean, universal Pre-K (and child care) would help people take advantage of free college. The reason free college gets so much play is millennials are very vocal on social media, and thus it gets echo chambered until it bursts out like a laser. Of course, that's my opinion, and I'm willing to be proven wrong here.
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Sep 24, 2016 15:56
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OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure it's the devious gays who are holding back the revolution, comrade. Yours is a subtle and insidious power. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 15:59
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iospace posted:Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't both help equally? I mean, universal Pre-K (and child care) would help people take advantage of free college. The reason free college gets so much play is millennials are very vocal on social media, and thus it gets echo chambered until it bursts out like a laser. Pre-K would help poor kids (more numerous than poor teens, I wager), but also their poor parents.
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Sep 24, 2016 16:01
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Grundulum posted:Pre-K would help poor kids (more numerous than poor teens, I wager), but also their poor parents. That is true. Also, to add on to my prior post as why free college gets promoted over free pre-K is guess who votes, people under 18 or people over? (that's not an endorsement one way or another, just why it's a big campaign issue)
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Sep 24, 2016 16:04
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Generally the more foundational a reform the more it can strike at root causes. People who get universal pre-K are more likely to be able to do well in secondary education even lacking reforms in that area (which remain necessary) and then in college. That doesn't lessen the need for reforms downstream but it does ease more pain per unit of reform, if you want to quantify it that way.
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Sep 24, 2016 16:22
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iospace posted:Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wouldn't both help equally? I mean, universal Pre-K (and child care) would help people take advantage of free college. The reason free college gets so much play is millennials are very vocal on social media, and thus it gets echo chambered until it bursts out like a laser. Pre-K and improved basic education in general would help far more people. Everyone goes to primary school, while even if college was free not everyone has a reason or the opportunity to go to it
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Sep 24, 2016 16:44
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iospace posted:Also, to add on to my prior post as why free college gets promoted over free pre-K is guess who votes, people under 18 or people over? (that's not an endorsement one way or another, just why it's a big campaign issue) Plus even for voters who have trouble caring about people in different circumstances to them, you can use the return on investment argument.
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Sep 24, 2016 16:50
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Guavanaut posted:I'd imagine there's more working parents who would benefit from free pre-K in the pool of people who vote though. Oh yeah, I know, but right now millennials are the "Big Prize" according to every pundit who has an opinion on the voting blocs this year. If you can swing them over to your side /and/ get them to vote, you win. The problem is right now they're waffling, because A. Bernie IS THE BEST, and B. e: I do want to make it abundantly clear that I do support universal pre-K, but I'm trying to see it from another perspective, namely that of the campaigns'.
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Sep 24, 2016 17:07
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iospace posted:Oh yeah, I know, but right now millennials are the "Big Prize" according to every pundit who has an opinion on the voting blocs this year. If you can swing them over to your side /and/ get them to vote, you win. The problem is right now they're waffling, because A. Bernie IS THE BEST, and B. The vast majority of millennials are already out of college. Only the very youngest are still in high school or college. So most millenials don't need to care about free college that much. If anything the biggest voting group that would like free college would be gen xers and boomers who are just about to or are int he middle of putting their kids through college.
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Sep 24, 2016 17:30
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