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Ryoshi posted:Infinite got no end of poo poo here and I've never understood why. It was a way more solid game than the first one, and while the graphics weren't mind-shattering or anything both the art and sound direction are really top-notch. Don't go into it expecting it to be life changing (because it is a video game) and it's a real fun experience. Most posts I see about it are too busy mythologizing Ken Levine as the Hackiest Hack Who Ever Hacked because the story wasn't great and the politics deplorable, but my biggest problem with Infinite was that the core gameplay barely resembled the previous games. Except for a bunch of legacy mechanics that now make little to no sense in the linear shooter format they squeezed the game into, which only harm it further. It also bore little resemblance to the pre-release material and Columbia ended up less fleshed out than Rapture, making it pretty but ultimately more vapid. There's also some inevitable blowback because Infinite was heralded as The Best Game of All Time, Bioshock Infinite Proves That Games Are Art, Citizen Kane of Games, etc. (Elizabeth as a companion was also way overrated as some tentpole achievement in NPC design.) It isn't the worst game ever made by any stretch, but it's awfully flawed, IMO. Kind of the equivalent of one of those summer blockbusters that's an alright sit but you can't help pulling at all the loose threads the second you leave the theater. The Moon Monster posted:I feel like Bioshock was a great game with some pretty big flaws. Bioshock 2 was kind of like Mario Galaxy 2, better mechanically but its impact was lessened a lot since it didn't really do much new. Infinite had great graphics, serviceable but disappointing gameplay that felt like a step back in most respects, and a dumb and poorly communicated story. Yeah, this. John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 21:04 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 21:01
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The problem with Handymen is that they were bullet sponges, which is the problem with every enemy in every Bioshock game, but Handymen were possibly the worst.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:13
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Ryoshi posted:Infinite got no end of poo poo here and I've never understood why. It was a way more solid game than the first one, and while the graphics weren't mind-shattering or anything both the art and sound direction are really top-notch. Don't go into it expecting it to be life changing (because it is a video game) and it's a real fun experience. poptart_fairy posted:Plot criticisms aside, a lot of Infinite's backlash felt like people were suddenly trying to make up for going nuts about the first couple of games. Oh-poo poo-we-need-to-rein-it-in kinda thing. The Arkham and Modern Warfare games have suffered similar - first one gave everyone erections and ice cream, but then suddenly their sequels are actually really awful and jesus christ so repetitive. It's really not that complicated. It was an extremely hyped video game that didn't live up to the expectations, one example being the walking back on weaponspace. Six in 1, 5 in 2 and then just 2 in Infinite. That's all not counting melee weapons that you always have though. And it certainly didn't match up to early trailers either. I think there were a lot less railway fights than originally advertised.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:23
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If anyone falls for hype at this point that's their own dumb problem and shouldn't be attributed to the game itself.My Lovely Horse posted:I would have disagreed with that until a few weeks ago, when I picked up Arkham Knight on a sale and it was actually really really good and I realized I'd got suckered in by that sentiment. Yeah I mean I can understand not liking the Batmobile, and the PC version's performance issues were inexcusable, but even detached from that a lot of the criticism comes across as simply having being bored of playing the Arkham formula so much. See Telltale, see Modern Warfare, etc. I do wish more people would separate their distaste for a franchise with an entry in that franchise actually being weak, but this is getting into that whole bollocks about what objectivity means in the context of reviews, etc, so.  Funnily enough the thread's darling Dark Souls is quite similar. DS1 was flawless then DS2 comes along and it's a hugely flawed game, then DS3 comes along and it's a hugely flawed game with DS2 suddenly becoming amazing, etc etc. 
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Sep 23, 2016 21:24
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Bioshock Infinite sucked because it's possibly the single worst example of ludonarrative dissonance ever except maybe Uncharted, but at least Drake is likeable and not a preachy smug rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:28
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Xen Tricks posted:Bioshock Infinite sucked because it's possibly the single worst example of ludonarrative dissonance ever except maybe Uncharted, but at least Drake is likeable and not a preachy smug rear end in a top hat. This is my first time reading that term! I'd say it's pretty fitting, but could you extrapolate a little further? What kind of game "should" Bioshock Infinite have been, given it's narrative? I certainly remember that "I look exactly like these people's symbol of hope, why are they shooting me" moment, but I'm not sure what could have been done with that section otherwise.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:47
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People want to shoot lots of dudes in games but have the protagonist feel bad, or something.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:50
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RBA Starblade posted:Distressingly true to life Sims is supposed to be my escape from life. Guess I should get a crappy job and broken down car in the game to fully immerse myself 
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Sep 23, 2016 21:53
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Poulpe posted:This is my first time reading that term! I'd say it's pretty fitting, but could you extrapolate a little further? Honestly I can't get that deep into it with BI because I played around an hour or two before I got fed up with the story and somewhat the mechanics. Basically though, there's the disconnect between DeWitt's horror and judgement towards the violent society of Columbia and the game just immediately forcing you into indiscriminately mowing down people. It just feels gross for it to try and be high and mighty while simultaneously giving you no option but "Kill all of those people now". It's similar in a way to the issues with Watch Dogs, where Adrian Pierce is a despicable rear end in a top hat but the game revolves around "Oh my niece is dead what can I do I am so sad and broken" while you just non stop shoot people who are maybe half-way culpable at best. It tries to humanize the main character while downplaying or entirely ignoring the actions you are taking as the PC.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:57
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RareAcumen posted:walking back on weaponspace. Six in 1, 5 in 2 and then just 2 in Infinite. That's all not counting melee weapons that you always have though. I think it woulda been better if they made it so you could have one of each type of weapon in a wheel instead of choosing to drop either my shotgun or assault rifle to pick up the hand cannon at my feet
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Sep 23, 2016 22:02
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Xen Tricks posted:Honestly I can't get that deep into it with BI because I played around an hour or two before I got fed up with the story and somewhat the mechanics. Basically though, there's the disconnect between DeWitt's horror and judgement towards the violent society of Columbia and the game just immediately forcing you into indiscriminately mowing down people. It just feels gross for it to try and be high and mighty while simultaneously giving you no option but "Kill all of those people now". There's a scene before the first battle which establishes the society as a bunch of racists, so it's fine.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:02
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poptart_fairy posted:Plot criticisms aside, a lot of Infinite's backlash felt like people were suddenly trying to make up for going nuts about the first couple of games. Oh-poo poo-we-need-to-rein-it-in kinda thing. The Arkham and Modern Warfare games have suffered similar - first one gave everyone erections and ice cream, but then suddenly their sequels are actually really awful and jesus christ so repetitive. Bioshock 2 retroactively getting a ton of praise and being heralded as The True Bioshock Successor after Infinite came out and everyone turned on it, too.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:02
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:There's a scene before the first battle which establishes the society as a bunch of racists, so it's fine. Then you start shooting at the revolutionaries trying to overthrow this highly racist system because they're obviously just as bad. Someone have that Levine interview where he says about as much?
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Sep 23, 2016 22:09
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CapitanGarlic posted:In the game, no, not so much. The Books of Sorrow, unlocked with the Calcified Fragments around the Dreadnaught, give Oryx's backstory and touch on the Traveler's past actions. You can read it here, though it's a long one: http://db.destinytracker.com/grimoire/enemies/books-of-sorrow Whooooa thanks for this, I kept looking for a wiki and getting stuff that had like a page on the Traveler that was seriously a single paragraph long and didn't really mention anything. My favorite thing I've seen in this so far is in XIV: 52 and On: A Traveler?! Why on earth would Bungie write all this awesome bullshit about space-krill bonding with Lovecraftian worms and then bury it so hard? What a waste. RBA Starblade posted:Also Crohhhhhtahhhhhhh beat someone to death with their dinklebot It's dragging Destiny down that instead of Dinklage's awesome deadpan I'm stuck listening to Nolan North yammer on in another goddamn video game.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:10
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Then you start shooting at the revolutionaries trying to overthrow this highly racist system because they're obviously just as bad. This?: http://www.pcgamer.com/bioshock-infinite-interview-ken-levine-racism-history/ quote:Levine: And BioShock had the same thing, where you had Objectivists being infuriated by it, and people more on the left thinking that it was a love letter to Objectivism. I think these games are a bit of a Rorschach for people. It's usually a negative Rorshach. It pisses them off, you know? But I'd way rather have that than to…These games are, to some degree… If they're about anything they're about not buying into a single point of view. About having a lack of confidence in anything. They're not ever an attack on a single idea. It's a bit of a plague on all your houses. The American experiment is insanely successful and positive. The notion of democracy is the most… There's that saying that “it's the worst political system in the world, except for all the others.” It's transformed the entire world. The founders in this world, this city, were worshipped. e: stupid bbcode
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Sep 23, 2016 22:16
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BillmasterCozb posted:I think it woulda been better if they made it so you could have one of each type of weapon in a wheel instead of choosing to drop either my shotgun or assault rifle to pick up the hand cannon at my feet That's what I mean by weaponspace. Compare Doom or Wolfenstein the New Order to a Halo game.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:17
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Then you start shooting at the revolutionaries trying to overthrow this highly racist system because they're obviously just as bad. I recall the in-game reason being that you traveled to another dimension where you had already died and become worshiped as a hero figure for the revolution, so Fitzroy started trying to kill you because it would confuse matters if you were still alive. Then she starts killing white kids because all white people are the devil or something like that, and the revolutionaries are your enemies at that point. The Columbia soldiers are also still your enemies, so you end up killing everyone regardless of sides. It's dumb, but at least has some hamfisted plot justifications instead of just making you kill everyone because the game has to have an enemy for the sake of there being something to do.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:27
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BillmasterCozb posted:I think it woulda been better if they made it so you could have one of each type of weapon in a wheel instead of choosing to drop either my shotgun or assault rifle to pick up the hand cannon at my feet And just like that the weapon upgrade subsystem makes sense. Well, actually you'd also need to make the ammo shared between weapon types, then you'd be good.
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Sep 23, 2016 22:57
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Ryoshi posted:At least this one has an actual plot and nobody has said anything about Crota or his loving soul in a few hours. I'm really digging it after not touching Destiny in months. It barely has a plot though, even by Destiny standards. Out of nowhere this guy who until now only hosted PVP events is like "Yeah so this computer killed all my buddies. We never mentioned this before because. But it's basically a god." and then you have to go kill it and surprise, the fallen are there! Even the NPCs are confused about how the fallen know this thing exists. Do you ever get answers on that front? Nope! So aliens found this super secret thing you ever knew about before, the one that was never brought up before despite killing the biggest and baddest asses. Then you just walk in and hit the explosive power switch. I don't know what they're planning for the raid, but if it's anything like the rest of the expansion so far it'll be a lot like King's Fall but with the fun bits taken out.
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Sep 23, 2016 23:02
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here's a problem I had with WASTED - you cant take weapons from traps laying around. I feel like with a TINKER rating of 10, you should be able to.
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Sep 23, 2016 23:06
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Then she starts killing white kids because all white people are the devil or something like that, and the revolutionaries are your enemies at that point. The Columbia soldiers are also still your enemies, so you end up killing everyone regardless of sides. She specifically goes after Fink's entire family because she believes that if even one of them lives they'll keep the Fink legacy (i.e. the legacy of factory towns and prison slavery) alive. The DLC changes this, but not for the better. Also the whole point of the game's narrative is that Booker is a goddamned moron who ruins everything he touches. He says out loud that the revolutionaries are just as bad as the power structure that existed before and he is clearly and explicitly wrong. I'm sorry that so many people are so appalled at the idea that Booker isn't a blank-slate protagonist like Jack was in Bioshock. The world of the revolution is a mirror image of the world before the revolution. In the world before the revolution, you were "the false shepherd." In the world of the revolution, you're "the fake hero." I thought that was a nice touch. By the way, 'ludonarrative dissonance' does not loving apply to Bioshock Infinite. It's one of the most abused phrases in the gaming press and it needs to stop. Booker relishes violence, violence is the only thing he knows and the only thing he's good at, so of course he violences the poo poo out of everything he comes across. The fact that you wanted to explore the city more peacefully doesn't change the fact that Booker sees the whole place as a war zone from the start- he's a voiced protagonist with his own perspective on the world, dammit. The only problem that the ludonarrative has is that the Vigors don't make any loving sense in-world, and Booker's instant ability to use them perfectly isn't explained either. Given that we are shown how horrific it is to put that poo poo in your body, you'd think there would be an explanation as to how he knows how to use it. Or at least how it feels. Remember when he first uses the Skyhook and he mentions that it "must be magnetised?" That's an explanation for the player to explain what it feels like for Booker to jump thirty feet and clamp onto something with the Skyhook. Again, the DLC changes this, but not for the better. Also the fact that I am clearly not wearing a hat in the end scene. Why would you make the powerup items into clothes if I'm not playing pretty princess dressup, Levine!? And why would you make the best item in the game a hat if I'm not able to see what it looks like it probably looks pretty cool Somfin has a new favorite as of 23:37 on Sep 23, 2016 |
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Sep 23, 2016 23:27
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Yeah - I was going to let that ludonarrative dissonance thing slide, but now that Somfin has pointed it out...you guys remember Booker is literally a genocidal soldier since before the game even started, right? Like a major plot point is that he was a major participant at the massacre at Wounded Knee. Ludonarrative dissonance means more than "you shoot guns at a lot of people".
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Sep 23, 2016 23:33
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Hitman 2016 is an amazing game that I finally got into recently but goddamn the always online aspect is terrible. Normally I don't care about that sort of thing but the game calls home so often during the menus that it becomes infuriating. Loading, saving, looking up challenges, switching between level menus; the whole thing is slowed down by this call home bullshit. It's fortunate there's no loading within levels because with these load times the game would be unplayable to me.
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Sep 23, 2016 23:37
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Stardew Valley is a great game but the item storage system is incredibly tedious for no real reason. Since you have a limited inventory you have to craft item chests to store items in, but a chest can only hold as much space as your own fully-upgraded inventory so in no time at all you're going to be juggling items between several chests; not only does the game have dozens and dozens of individual items to be used for refining and crafting but the randomized quest system encourages you to store multiples of every item just in case somebody all of sudden decides they absolutely need a pale ale or a fire quartz that day. Coupled with the game's crafting system, you're going to have to paw through several different chests to gather all the ingredients every time you want to make something and will similarly have to go through them all to unload your haul of crafting materials into the right bins at the end of the day. Since chests are incredibly cheap and are one of the first things you learn how to craft you can make all the chests you want, there's no real limit on the total number of items you can store. It's just a huge timesink. What makes it even worse is that the interface is obviously very heavily inspired by Terraria, and one of the first things Terraria did as it rolled out updates was massively increase the amount of items you could store in your own inventory and in chests, allow you to stack every item to a huge degree, and make it so that you could do crafting with items that were in chests without having to move them into your inventory. Chucklefish has announced an upcoming update to Stardew Valley and I'm really hoping that they follow in Terraria's footsteps, because as things are the most difficult and unpleasant part of the game is remembering which chest I was storing gold ores and summer crops in versus where I was keeping slimes and refined egg products.
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Sep 24, 2016 02:04
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Somfin posted:The only problem that the ludonarrative has is that the Vigors don't make any loving sense in-world
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Sep 24, 2016 02:42
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Tiggum posted:Honestly, as dumb and nonsensical as the plot was, this is the thing that bothered me the the most. Keep the combat powers, but there should at least be advertisements for powers that ordinary people would actually want if they're such a big part of society, but it's all these ridiculous things that have absolutely no applications in everyday life. The ones you actually collect to use yourself should be a tiny minority of what's available. If you look at the concept art for the game's development a lot of the older versions of the game that were scrapped were exactly this, lots of world-building showing how people were using Vigors in their daily lives and showing how that plus regular dimension-hopping was loving up their bodies and psyches and creating a lot of the super-powered enemies you were fighting as the tonics overtook their bodies or they were fragmented across multiple versions of themselves.         Like a lot of things in the game that fell to wayside when over time the game went from being Bioshock 2: Skyoshock to a meta-commentary on all possible future Bioshock sequels as seen through the eyes of the incredibly hosed-up, violent, and irredeemable Booker and they realized that it was all basically an uninteresting rehash of the Splicers from Bioshock 1 that 99% of players wouldn't notice or care about since it had already been done before the exact same way.
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Sep 24, 2016 03:20
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Guy Mann posted:Like a lot of things in the game that fell to wayside when over time the game went from being Bioshock 2: Skyoshock to a meta-commentary on all possible future Bioshock sequels as seen through the eyes of the incredibly hosed-up, violent, and irredeemable Booker and they realized that it was all basically an uninteresting rehash of the Splicers from Bioshock 1 that 99% of players wouldn't notice or care about since it had already been done before the exact same way. Yeah, the real problem is that Bioshock Infinite's gameplay prevents its enemy design from mattering worth a drat. Find the most head-like part, put a bullet in it, repeat. Oh, this guy has a second mouth goin' on, that's neat. Probably took weeks of work to get it to animate independently like that BANG head gone body looted movin' right along. You could do the cool creepy weird stuff that the artbook has, but you'd need to radically slow down the flow of the game to make it worth it, and slow it down way more to adequately explore it. There is a hint of it in some of the head designs on the troops in BI, but it's so understated and unexplored that it just comes off as weird for the sake of weird. Somfin has a new favorite as of 04:21 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 04:18
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Ghost Mom and the Boys of Silence were supposed to be regular enemies, too. I forget, was there any justification at all for the fire guys? John Murdoch has a new favorite as of 04:40 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 04:36
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Somfin posted:Yeah, the real problem is that Bioshock Infinite's gameplay prevents its enemy design from mattering worth a drat. Find the most head-like part, put a bullet in it, repeat. Oh, this guy has a second mouth goin' on, that's neat. Probably took weeks of work to get it to animate independently like that BANG head gone body looted movin' right along. So you're saying Bioshock Infinite should have emphasized what made Bioshock so memorable and cool. I mean, yeah, man.
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Sep 24, 2016 05:16
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I accidentally spoiled myself on something that really disappointed me about Persona 5 last night. Not major story spoilers, more gameplay, but still tagging. Every party member's initial Persona in the game, and the ones all over pre-release publicity, are public-domain literary and historical figures mostly of rogues and problem-types. It's a loving awesome theme for Personas, and gives us the likes of Arsene Lupin, Captain Kidd, Zorro, Goemon, and my personal favorite, Necronomicon. But their Personas evolve, and the evolved Personas don't even have a theme. There's some mythological tricksters and thieves (Loki, Prometheus) which would kind of work, but there's others that are just old religious figures without any connecting themes (Hecate, Satanael), and exactly one guy that's still got a public-domain literary Persona (Seiten Teisei). It just disappoints me that the really fun theme I was loving got abandoned when Personas started evolving. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 06:00 on Sep 24, 2016 |
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Sep 24, 2016 05:54
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RyokoTK posted:So you're saying Bioshock Infinite should have emphasized what made Bioshock so memorable and cool. I mean, yeah, man. It's amazing how much the Research Camera added to the game. Every fight for several levels starts with a tense series of snapshots as you try to extract XP out of this particular kind of creature, and since you have to take a couple seconds just watching them while the camera focuses, you not only watch them throw their particular moveset at you, you also get a good look at their facial weirdnesses. It also means that you basically give up a couple free hits, since the best shots are action shots with multiple other targets in the area- so you trade some HP away in every goddamn fight, in exchange for an increasingly dramatic ramp-up in avatar power.
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Sep 24, 2016 06:14
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I've been trying to finish the bestiary in Bravely Second, the only thing left to fill are the "Ba'als". Basically everyday, you can get bosses that you normally can't fight in the main story (in most cases). These guys have to be killed multiple times to get the full entries. For the past three days I've been getting guys I've either already filled or the one that doesn't even have a bestiary entry. Not helping matters is that theirs a limit of seven, and you have to fight them or wait out a long amount of time to get them to leave. I've also given up trying to unlock all the songs in chompcraft.
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Sep 24, 2016 17:42
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I think the other way to track down Ba'als is to do a New Game + because there's that one chapter where all the random encounters are replaced with Ba'als.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:19
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YggiDee posted:I think the other way to track down Ba'als is to do a New Game + because there's that one chapter where all the random encounters are replaced with Ba'als. Yeah, this is correct. The bestiary won't update during that segment but once you leave it and win a battle all the entries you would have obtained will be filled in retroactively.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:20
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YggiDee posted:I think the other way to track down Ba'als is to do a New Game + because there's that one chapter where all the random encounters are replaced with Ba'als. Dartonus posted:Yeah, this is correct. The bestiary won't update during that segment but once you leave it and win a battle all the entries you would have obtained will be filled in retroactively. I'm guessing this happens after the moon disappears? And here I was saying they should of had everyone show up in the main game.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:35
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scarycave posted:I'm guessing this happens after the moon disappears? And here I was saying they should of had everyone show up in the main game. Yeah, that's correct. iirc it's battles on the world map only, dungeons will still have their normal enemies.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:41
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I've been playing the rerelease of RE4 and its kind of annoying how the game has the guy who will sell you anything, except ammo. Obviously it wouldn't be the ideal way to do it but it would be nice for those times when you're completely out or want specific ammo.
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Sep 24, 2016 19:58
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muscles like this? posted:I've been playing the rerelease of RE4 and its kind of annoying how the game has the guy who will sell you anything, except ammo. Obviously it wouldn't be the ideal way to do it but it would be nice for those times when you're completely out or want specific ammo. The game does give you more ammo from drops if you're carrying a gun and you don't have much ammo for it, so stockpiling is very ineffective but I've found it's pretty drat hard to straight up run out of ammo.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:22
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Cleretic posted:I accidentally spoiled myself on something that really disappointed me about Persona 5 last night. Not major story spoilers, more gameplay, but still tagging. I think there is meant to be a theme - they're all figures who steal from or rebel against divine authority, as opposed to the base personas, who rebel against real-world governments and power structures. (And Necronomicon, I guess). Specifically: Prometheus steals fire from the gods. Loki trolls everyone in Asgard repeatedly, most notably by getting Baldr killed. Hecate is a witch-goddess generally portrayed as antagonistic to the gods of Olympus, though I don't know about any specific myths. Satanael is just Satan/Lucifer, the ultimate rebel. Seiten Teisei is Monkey, who steals immortality from Heaven. Anat I don't know much about, but a quick google suggests she steals a bow from some other gods at some point? There are a couple of others you haven't mentioned, so I'll put them separately in case you haven't spoiled yourself on them yet: Mercury is the patron god of thieves. Susanoo goes on at least one epic rampage and royally pisses off all the other gods. Astarte I can't figure out but she's apparently got some overlap with Anat?
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Sep 24, 2016 23:25
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Ladies and gentlemen! WARIO DE MAMBOOOOOO!
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Sep 25, 2016 03:57
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