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How is Infinite Crisis regarded in hindsight? I remember reading it at the time and thinking it was a bit of a silly confusing mess (I knew less about comics at the time); I reread it last month and really enjoyed both the general story and the meta commentary. I also found it an amusing counterpoint to Final Crisis since Infinite Crisis seemed to be saying 'Yes, comics have more realism injected into them now and it makes things morally difficult sometimes', then Final Crisis was all about how comics are becoming too dark and they should have clearer morality again. Morrison is Superboy Prime.
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Sep 25, 2016 07:53
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Gaz-L posted:Yes, futuristic in this toy line where the gimmick was everyone had a handheld shield with rivets moulded in... So a conservative Mattel looking to hedge their bets with a new franchise would naturally just say "why not both?"
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Sep 25, 2016 07:58
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I regard Infinite Crisis as crap. It's obnoxiously edgelordy, you can see all the spots where they decided to veer in a different direction at the last minute, and the meta-commentary falls apart when you remember that the writer is one of the people who spent the last 2-3 years real time making the DCU so stupidly grimdark in the first place.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:01
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Teenage Fansub posted:That pouch garter is pretty cute. It's part of a proud Latverian tradition Once a year, a doombot has to kneel in front of Dr. Doom while he's wearing the garter, and pull it off his leg. That 'bot then has to throw the garter over his head into a crowd of assembled doombots, who try to catch it. The one that catches it gets the honor of being next to impersonate Doom for a year. If he survives a whole year, he's the one that takes the garter off next year.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:24
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Senior Woodchuck posted:I regard Infinite Crisis as crap. It's obnoxiously edgelordy, you can see all the spots where they decided to veer in a different direction at the last minute, and the meta-commentary falls apart when you remember that the writer is one of the people who spent the last 2-3 years real time making the DCU so stupidly grimdark in the first place.
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Sep 25, 2016 18:11
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Teenage Fansub posted:That pouch garter is pretty cute. And functional! It holds his laser blaster!
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Sep 26, 2016 01:11
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Halloween Jack posted:It's been awhile, but I was following Batman-related stuff closely at the time and the whole event seemed like it boiled down to "Batman hosed everything up by being a huge douche because he has trust issues." That those trust issues stemmed from Identity Crisis was the cherry on top. seemed like it had been simmering since Tower of Babel. I thought it all made sense in continuity with the only really egregious thing being Superboy changing reality by punching so hard. Senior Woodchuck posted:I regard Infinite Crisis as crap. It's obnoxiously edgelordy, you can see all the spots where they decided to veer in a different direction at the last minute, and the meta-commentary falls apart when you remember that the writer is one of the people who spent the last 2-3 years real time making the DCU so stupidly grimdark in the first place. I thought it was pretty much defending the darker stuff as being more real world with more complex morality, so it's consistent it would be the same guy making that argument.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:19
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Neurosis posted:I thought it was pretty much defending the darker stuff as being more real world with more complex morality, so it's consistent it would be the same guy making that argument. It's true, ripping people's arms off is pretty complex from a moral perspective. 
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Sep 26, 2016 10:30
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It's completely hosed up that "Superboy punched a wall" actually was the excuse for how Jason Todd came back.
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Sep 26, 2016 11:59
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muscles like this? posted:It's completely hosed up that Jason Todd came back. Agreed.
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Sep 26, 2016 12:03
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I really enjoyed Infinite Crisis when it came out because it seemed (and I'm not fond of using the word) "epic" to 14-year old me. I felt the same way about Identity Crisis; on the face of it, it looked clever, and I hadn't the wit or the maturity at that time to take a closer look at it at the time and appreciate where its shortcomings lay. Although I still have a modicum of affection for it as the first event I was into and followed as it was coming out, Infinite Crisis, to me, is a fairly typical event that thinks it's cleverer, or that it's making a bigger and more profound point, than it actually is. I feel the same way about Blackest Night, which was "superhero zombie apocalypse" but which I remember a lot of people treating as "serious discussion of the nature of death in comic books".
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Sep 26, 2016 12:17
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Agreed. I really enjoyed the Under The Hood arc, so that validated the decision to bring Jason Todd back for me.
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Sep 26, 2016 12:41
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Infinite Crisis is really bad but the OMAC Project is okay and the whole thing is kind of worth it for giving us 52.
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Sep 26, 2016 15:44
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Villains United was pretty fun, too. The event as a whole was pretty bad, though.
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Sep 26, 2016 15:48
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muscles like this? posted:It's completely hosed up that "Superboy punched a wall" actually was the excuse for how Jason Todd came back. It's hosed up that "the devil gave Spider-Man a divorce" actually was the excuse for Aunt May and Harry Osborn being alive.
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Sep 26, 2016 16:32
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I'm sure glad they brought Harry Osborne back. They've done so much with the character! Like... ah... that thing!
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Sep 26, 2016 16:37
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Uthor posted:It's hosed up that "the devil gave Spider-Man a divorce" actually was the excuse for Aunt May and Harry Osborn being alive. It's not like May had died again or been replaced with an actress this time.
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Sep 26, 2016 16:38
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Harry has always been one of Spider-Man's best supporting characters. There's really no reason not to have him around.
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Sep 26, 2016 16:43
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Die Laughing posted:Harry has always been one of Spider-Man's best supporting characters. There's really no reason not to have him around. His death was very well done. His resurrection not so much and where the hell has he been of late?
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Sep 26, 2016 16:43
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Die Laughing posted:Harry has always been one of Spider-Man's best supporting characters. There's really no reason not to have him around. Harry basically had full and complete arc that ended tragically but meaningfully. The 'best supporting character' hasn't done anything since he came back and barely anyone remembers he's still around. This isn't even a "Well, they brought him back to do a really good story" revival. They brought him back because Harry Osborne is in both the movie series and they wanted to have him available in case he got popular and they could find an excuse to toss his rear end in the Goblin suit again.
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Sep 26, 2016 16:48
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Um actually I'll have you know that Harry's role as guy who shows up for a page every issue to remind people that he owes Pete for giving him a job and Spidey is a decent guy is very important because reasons
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Sep 26, 2016 17:59
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Rhyno posted:It's not like May had died again or been replaced with an actress this time. She was quite literally on death's door and everyone from the medical doctors all the way to Aunt May herself via seance saying 'there's nothing more that can be done, you have to let go'. The whole reason they made the deal was because Mephisto said he could stop her from dying. ImpAtom posted:Harry basically had full and complete arc that ended tragically but meaningfully. Yeah, at least we got some good stories with Kraven after he came back, even if there's a good case to be made that he should have stayed dead (and the resurrection story wasn't anything special either). Harry has had nothing. He's honestly the poster child for BND: a return to something from Spider-Man's past that was remembered fondly by everyone and had a good ending, but brought back to pander to the nostalgia of the editors/writers rather than because it was for the good of the story.
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Sep 26, 2016 19:19
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Die Laughing posted:Harry has always been one of Spider-Man's best supporting characters. There's really no reason not to have him around. Except that he died, and that there's obviously nothing left to say about him since no one has done anything interesting with the character at all since he came back. There's no reason at all to bring him back instead of focusing on creating new and interesting supporting characters.
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Sep 26, 2016 21:04
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Lurdiak posted:Except that he died, and that there's obviously nothing left to say about him since no one has done anything interesting with the character at all since he came back. There's no reason at all to bring him back instead of focusing on creating new and interesting supporting characters. I think there could be some interesting stuff now if they tried to make a connection between how Peter has his company and Harry used to have his father's. But I don't know if there's much to mine from that. Also, if Harry isn't a wreck and if he isn't a supervillain to Spider-Man, there's really not a whole lot to him. His greatest contributions have been getting addicted to drugs and being the Green Goblin. Without having the rest of the gang around like in the Coffee Bean days I honestly don't know what his role is supposed to be.
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Sep 26, 2016 21:38
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Lurdiak posted:Except that he died, and that there's obviously nothing left to say about him since no one has done anything interesting with the character at all since he came back. There's no reason at all to bring him back instead of focusing on creating new and interesting supporting characters. I just re-read Maximum Carnage and for all it's faults, the ending has Spider-Man walking between the gravestones of Harry and Norman Osborn and it's a really touching moment, made the 12 terrible issues that probably could have been done in 3 or 4 feel almost worth it.
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Sep 27, 2016 06:27
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Isn't Maximum Carnage way way better than Maximum Clonage? Not like that's saying much, but still.
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Sep 27, 2016 06:31
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What's maximum clonage?
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Sep 27, 2016 06:36
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CharlestheHammer posted:What's maximum clonage? http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Maximum_Clonage
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Sep 27, 2016 06:55
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Toxxupation posted:Isn't Maximum Carnage way way better than Maximum Clonage? Not like that's saying much, but still. Is Maximum Clonage what they're calling the entire clone saga from the 90's? because I wouldn't say it's better, it's definitely a lot shorter but contained in the clone saga are some pretty good stories, padded out with a bunch of bullshit. Where Maximum Carnage is like 95% bullshit but has a couple nice moments.
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Sep 27, 2016 06:59
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Oh usually people call it the clone saga
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Sep 27, 2016 07:10
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Isn't the Clone Saga like two years and something like eighty issues long or something? Because it covered four simultaneous monthlies right? Maximum Clonage is just the story arc within Clone Saga where Ben and Peter figure out once and for all who was the clone and it introduces all those super dumb clones (like Kaine and poo poo).
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Sep 27, 2016 07:16
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You take that back, Kaine is a great clone!
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Sep 27, 2016 07:25
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Dammit, Y'all are making me want to re-read the clone saga and because I know it's all on Marvel Unlimited but they have lovely rear end loving organizing for crossovers I'm going to have to find a reading list then use there search function after almost every issue for probably more than the guy above me just said. I hate y'all.
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Sep 27, 2016 07:24
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RandallODim posted:You take that back, Kaine is a great clone! Yeah, in Scarlet Spider, like two decades later.
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Sep 27, 2016 07:39
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Toxxupation posted:Yeah, in Scarlet Spider, like two decades later. Yeah, he was basically a lame Venom at the start.
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Sep 27, 2016 07:43
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CharlestheHammer posted:Oh usually people call it the clone saga Maximum Clonage is a specific mini-event during the clone saga. It could be argued to be the low point and certainly has the most clones and dumb poo poo in it.
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Sep 27, 2016 07:54
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Spidercide! Anyone remember the Very Best of Spider-Man trade from the 90's? Has Amazing Fantasy 15, the issue where he lifts the heavy poo poo, the kid who collected Spider-Man, the one with the wrestler and Man Mountain Marko, two McFarlane stories (one with Venom and one with Lizard), and the death of Harry Osborn in Spectacular 200. I had it when I was a kid, and my bartender showed me a copy he just got for his nephew. I still think they're some very solid choices for the best Spidey comics told in one issue.
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Sep 27, 2016 10:17
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Not to poo poo on the guy too hard, but I doubt McFarlane issues would make the cut for something like that today.
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Sep 27, 2016 10:24
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Skwirl posted:Dammit, Y'all are making me want to re-read the clone saga and because I know it's all on Marvel Unlimited but they have lovely rear end loving organizing for crossovers I'm going to have to find a reading list then use there search function after almost every issue for probably more than the guy above me just said. I hate y'all.
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Sep 27, 2016 10:44
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Why the hell does Spider-Man seemingly have so many evil-Spiderman enemies? Venom, Carnage, the Clone, the Doppleganger, more symbiotes, Kaine, etc
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Sep 27, 2016 11:47
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