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Rodrigo Diaz posted:I don't care about the posts before this but want to chime in and say tea is a drink for troglodytes and the english, but I repeat myself
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Sep 25, 2016 20:06
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You can obsess on any piece of technology to the point where nothing else compares and where any feeble attempt to point out that the alternative technologies do just as good a job will be met with scorn or be outright ignored. IT people know this well, and military people probably have been like that for the last 8000 years. "You'd be a fool to trust this so called 'saddle' and 'spurs' when we already have a superior way of mobile warfare - the chariot." "History will prove that this musket thing is just a passing fad, only the pike column will remain unchanged through millennia." "The future is here today! In 50 years from now all tanks will be turretless, amphibious and equipped with a digging blade like S-tank, the harbinger of things to be!" "If only we can get people to call the vehicle as 'General Gavin' then the idiots at MoD would open their eyes and understand..." But really, Soviet cold war tanks were cutting edge in several ways and whenever a new model came to service it caused some serious gasping in NATO and increased military-industrial lobbying efforts in Washington DC. If you only stare at the bits where they were ahead of western competitors then even the T-62 will look like a sexy god of war. All things considered it wasn't objectively better than M60. Rodrigo Diaz posted:I don't care about the posts before this but want to chime in and say tea is a drink for troglodytes and the english, but I repeat myself Like gunpowder, compass and paper, tea is one of those Chinese inventions without which only barbars can wage wars. HEY GAL posted:i love all battles where the punch line is "yes you can get artillery up that slope" What's changed over the last hundred years is that even if you're dug in on the peak of The Mount Bloody Everest, there is no guarantee that someone won't show up above you. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 20:29
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Nenonen posted:"History will prove that this musket thing is just a passing fad, only the pike column will remain unchanged through millennia." the weapon of choice for Philip of Macedon; the noble Swiss, founders of democracy; and Descartes (probably)(maybe) is the weapon of choice for me
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Sep 25, 2016 20:32
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HEY GAL posted:this part is true though The Noble Swiss huh
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Sep 25, 2016 20:35
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Disinterested posted:The Noble Swiss huh
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Sep 25, 2016 20:40
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Koramei posted:From playing the Wargame series, it seems like you get that about the Soviets all the time. I'd guess it's similar in part to the old Roman tendency to hype up the fighting abilities of their opponents: The badder your enemy is, the badder you must have been to beat 'em. HEY GAL posted:this part is true though I don't get how it doesn't just flop around out of the water though? (I remember reading Redwall books as a child and being confused when pike showed up, since I knew of the weapon before I knew of the fish. Context, yeah, but it takes longer when you have to break down your preexisting knowledge first.)
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Sep 25, 2016 21:03
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my dad posted:How often do you run into the Soviet or Allied equivalent of wehraboos? Like, people who are so incredibly into a myth about some Soviet tank's/ship's/weapon's quality that they go frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of one of its flaws? I have never ever seen a soviet/alliedaboo. Maybe on a few "My grandpa killed five tigers with his bare hands" kind of stories, but very rarely is that kind of ethos applied to the entire allied or soviet military the way it is for the germans. Koramei posted:From playing the Wargame series, it seems like you get that about the Soviets all the time. Really? The thing I always hear is how much American tech beat Soviet tech (and wherever it didn't the soviet tech would've broken down and not counted). EDIT: Maybe this is a more modern thing, though, given I'm mostly interacting with post-gulf abramaboos and that wouldn't have been as much of a thing in the 1970s and 80s... spectralent fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Sep 25, 2016 |
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Sep 25, 2016 21:07
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:I'd guess it's similar in part to the old Roman tendency to hype up the fighting abilities of their opponents: The badder your enemy is, the badder you must have been to beat 'em. Or British and French shipbuilding when prize money was a thing. http://navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-057.htm
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Sep 25, 2016 21:14
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spectralent posted:I have never ever seen a soviet/alliedaboo. Maybe on a few "My grandpa killed five tigers with his bare hands" kind of stories, but very rarely is that kind of ethos applied to the entire allied or soviet military the way it is for the germans. I think its mostly because we didn't lionise people the same way that the Germans. The way that the Western Allies won the war was not particularly glamorous it was just very effective, it was methodical slow and steady grinding down of the enemy with the knowledge that no matter how much material we expended more would come rolling out of the factory.
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Sep 25, 2016 21:40
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xthetenth posted:Kind of, although the german nationalist conspiracy in the Wargame series was loving ludicrous. Wait, what?
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Sep 25, 2016 21:50
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Come on, the Brits were Spitfireaboos already during the war, and it's never gone away. 
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Sep 25, 2016 22:02
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Arquinsiel posted:You may want to start your car remotely. You need 3 licenses to be in the same room as a pen knife. you don't scare me. aphid_licker posted:wonder what dudes like Toblerone Triangular and Infrateal are doing now. TT was fakeposting and (iirc) actually British.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:12
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:You need 3 licenses to be in the same room as a pen knife. you don't scare me.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:17
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Siivola posted:Come on, the Brits were Spitfireaboos already during the war, and it's never gone away. You're right, but thinking about it I think spitfireaboos have always been my stereotype of people who aren't into milhist very much. "Actually, the hurricane was the more common plane..." is probably a more groggy kind of view.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:18
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my dad posted:How often do you run into the Soviet or Allied equivalent of wehraboos? Like, people who are so incredibly into a myth about some Soviet tank's/ship's/weapon's quality that they go frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of one of its flaws? Very rarely, I mostly see people latching onto Communist ideology without a very good (or often any) understanding of what it actually entails. There is an exciting character on the War Thunder Livejournal, but I'm almost positive he's just a dedicated troll. IM_DA_DECIDER posted:A lot of the soviet military fetishisazion is probably literally Russian propaganda efforts or useful idiots who play right into that as well. For example, the posts any time a ~stealth~ plane is mentioned. Interesting, since from what I've seen fetishization of German equipment is entirely based on technical specifications, while Soviet propaganda was incredibly vague on technical details.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:24
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Empress Theonora posted:Wait, what? The joking name for the people who gave absolutely no fucks about blatantly wanting germany to be the best ever. The overpowered bullshit Fallschirmjaegers that could both outshoot any non-specialist infantry and had the best light AT weapon in the game were not only fine by them but necessary as well as some other fun times.
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Sep 25, 2016 22:34
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What do people make of this article? "High Hitler: how Nazi drug abuse steered the course of history" http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...py_to_clipboard
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Sep 25, 2016 22:41
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Ensign Expendable posted:
Don't take my word for it, this is coming from my entirely subjective experience of seeing the same people who support Russian politics online also being completely convinced of the invincibility of its military hardware (which happens to be almost entirely Soviet).
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Sep 25, 2016 22:43
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xthetenth posted:The joking name for the people who gave absolutely no fucks about blatantly wanting germany to be the best ever. The overpowered bullshit Fallschirmjaegers that could both outshoot any non-specialist infantry and had the best light AT weapon in the game were not only fine by them but necessary as well as some other fun times. *tosses men out of a plane with pistols and hilariously misdrops all of their proper equipment* Best paratroopers ever.
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Sep 26, 2016 00:37
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My mistake, we're talking more recently. In that case, I've got a friend who was in the German paratroopers and the experience he felt encapsulated his time with them was when his G36 melted.
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Sep 26, 2016 00:39
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The absurd shooting might make sense if it was the second world war and they were using that FG42 thing. Assuming, y'know, they could scrape together enough of them to equip a whole squad.
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Sep 26, 2016 00:47
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Polyakov posted:I think its mostly because we didn't lionise people the same way that the Germans. The way that the Western Allies won the war was not particularly glamorous it was just very effective, it was methodical slow and steady grinding down of the enemy with the knowledge that no matter how much material we expended more would come rolling out of the factory. Makes sense to me. I can't think of any allied victories in Europe that stand up to the glamour of the early Nazi triumphs besides Bagration, and Bagration isn't that well known in western popular history. At least US Navy fanboys can talk about the exciting stories of Midway, the Philippine Sea, and Taffy 3. But steady, consistent victories just don't have the same storytelling potential.
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Sep 26, 2016 01:00
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golden bubble posted:Makes sense to me. I can't think of any allied victories in Europe that stand up to the glamour of the early Nazi triumphs besides Bagration, and Bagration isn't that well known in western popular history. At least US Navy fanboys can talk about the exciting stories of Midway, the Philippine Sea, and Taffy 3. But steady, consistent victories just don't have the same storytelling potential. Normandy and Battle of the Bulge spring to mind, but that's about it.
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Sep 26, 2016 01:24
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:You need 3 licenses to be in the same room as a pen knife. you don't scare me. He was, he was left wing and decided the best way to mock the libertopians was to become their most embarrassing true believer
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Sep 26, 2016 01:55
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Probably a controversial question, but how hard did the Axis minors (Hungary, Romania, Finland etc) buy into Nazism?
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Sep 26, 2016 02:01
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OwlFancier posted:The absurd shooting might make sense if it was the second world war and they were using that FG42 thing. An Assault Rifle that needs a bipod to be controllable when firing on automatic isn't that great. That said, the FG-42 was pretty advanced for the period and is very interesting as a foray into the combining of machine-guns and infantry rifles. Most remarkable is that the US Army thought it was cool enough to warrant copying some of its design aspects for its post-WW2 infantry weapons.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:16
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xthetenth posted:Or British and French shipbuilding when prize money was a thing. A good read. Somebody once told me to shut up when I suggested that perhaps the glorious French ships were not in all respects superior to their English counterparts—not a conversation that was worth continuing at that point. Endman posted:My mistake, we're talking more recently. I had the steering wheel of my car melt on me once. I can imagine having your gun do the same is pretty disturbing.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:59
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Fangz posted:What do people make of this article?
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Sep 26, 2016 05:05
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Endman posted:tosses men out of a plane with pistols
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Sep 26, 2016 05:08
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Wargame also has FRENCH BIAS, don't forget that. StashAugustine posted:Probably a controversial question, but how hard did the Axis minors (Hungary, Romania, Finland etc) buy into Nazism? Hungary got into the fascism thing! Endman posted:My mistake, we're talking more recently. I thought the "melting problem" with the G36 is that it starts having crappy accuracy at 500 meters when it gets hot, and any infantryman will tell you that you can't really spot poo poo at 500 meters anyways. IM_DA_DECIDER posted:Don't take my word for it, this is coming from my entirely subjective experience of seeing the same people who support Russian politics online also being completely convinced of the invincibility of its military hardware (which happens to be almost entirely Soviet). ARMATA! PAK-FA! PAK-FA!
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Sep 26, 2016 05:23
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OwlFancier posted:The absurd shooting might make sense if it was the second world war and they were using that FG42 thing. IIRC, they were armed with g44s, so close.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:26
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StashAugustine posted:Probably a controversial question, but how hard did the Axis minors (Hungary, Romania, Finland etc) buy into Nazism? Slovakia: Fascist state with a Catholic priest for a dictator. Croatia: Fascist state run by crazies who were so into murdering they sickened the SS. Hungary: Landlocked monarchy without a royal family run by an Admiral. Tried to get out of the war, Nazis invaded and installed the Arrow Cross party, who were very bad news. Finland: Not evil. Involved with Nazis because nobody else would help them with the Soviets. Romania: Fascist nutjobs take over, then fail and everybody gets killed, and the King takes over and switches sides to the Allies. This doesn't work out for him. Bulgaria: Sclerotic monarchy, doesn't declare war on Soviets because scared. Monarchy deposed after Soviet invasion. So yeah, nobody was a Nazi, but they were all kinds of flavors of not great. Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Sep 26, 2016 |
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Sep 26, 2016 05:35
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More about Croatian crazies, please.
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Sep 26, 2016 05:41
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JcDent posted:More about Croatian crazies, please. Here's a good starting point. Excerpt from a letter from the Gestapo to Himmler: quote:Increased activity of the bands [of rebels] is chiefly due to atrocities carried out by Ustaše units in Croatia against the Orthodox population. The Ustaše committed their deeds in a bestial manner not only against males of conscript age, but especially against helpless old people, women and children. The number of the Orthodox that the Croats have massacred and sadistically tortured to death is about three hundred thousand. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Sep 26, 2016 |
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Sep 26, 2016 05:53
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The Ustasha ran a murder camp that killed gypsies, jews, serbs, and others, and was in operation longer than Auschwitz and featured the only concentration camp specifically for children in all of Europe. Their victims were not murdered by gas or even by shooting. They cut people's throats with a special knife. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek The head German official in Croatia, a very bad dude who had been the second-in-command of the Austrian Nazis, had this to say: quote:We now entered the concentration camp in a converted factory. Appalling conditions. A handful of men, many women and children, without enough clothing, sleeping on a stone tablet at night, screams all around, cries and sobbing. The camp commander – a scoundrel – I ignored him, but instead told my Ustasha guide: "This is enough to make a person vomit." The guards had contests to see how many people they could slit the throats of in one day with prizes that included a nice fat pig or a shiny watch.
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Sep 26, 2016 06:03
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Did they run the whole party on Croatian Dirlevangers? Because we know that gas chambers et al were made because even hardcore nazis couldn't bear killing so much people directly (by shooting), so how come these guys got even closer and dirtier, and didn't have any issues?
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Sep 26, 2016 06:16
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JcDent posted:Did they run the whole party on Croatian Dirlevangers? Because we know that gas chambers et al were made because even hardcore nazis couldn't bear killing so much people directly (by shooting), so how come these guys got even closer and dirtier, and didn't have any issues?  no matter how much you've seen.
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Sep 26, 2016 06:19
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JcDent posted:Did they run the whole party on Croatian Dirlevangers? Because we know that gas chambers et al were made because even hardcore nazis couldn't bear killing so much people directly (by shooting), so how come these guys got even closer and dirtier, and didn't have any issues? There's not really an answer to your question other than that these guys could do it and they did. The Ustasha was the extreme wing of the extreme and the Nazis gave them their own country and almost total carte blanche. Teriyaki Hairpiece fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Sep 26, 2016 |
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Sep 26, 2016 06:23
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So I was digging around in some boxes of books my parents got from my grandparents and I found a few interesting things, which I am sure aren't that rare, but it was cool to see. 1. Original print edition of US Grants Memoirs that belong to my Great-Great Grandfather published in 1885. 2. A book titled the "History of the World War" by Francis March published in 1919 and looks like it would be interesting to get the US perspective on the war pretty much immediately after the war ended. 3. A Book on the "History of the Third Reich" with a Swastika on the binding and cover published in 1939 a few months before the war started, there were a few others from earlier like 1937 and 1938 so they might be interesting to read. 4. A big collection set of World History books from Ancient times till the modern day (1920's) its like 15 very thick hardcover books. 5. Also a couple travel journal story things of people in the "Orient" from before WWII.
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Sep 26, 2016 06:48
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The only thing probably worth reading out of those is Grant's memoirs. Grant's memoirs are good stuff.
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Sep 26, 2016 06:58
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