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Zurui posted:The Admiralty probably got like six pages into Janeway's logs and just said "gently caress it, just promote her and forget all of this happened." Starfleet really figured out how to turn the Peters Principle to their advantage.
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Sep 25, 2016 06:54
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Yeah, the only real explanation is that Janeway found refuge in audacity. She hosed up so hugely and frequently that any formal inquiry or court martial proceedings would take years to prosecute and and make Star Fleet the laughingstock of the galaxy not to mention scare every Federation citizen completely shitless.  "Captain Janeway, how many times did hostile aliens gain access to your ship's systems, personnel, equipment, or the data in its main computer?" "I don't know." "Why not?" "Because I stopped counting after the third year." "So half the Delta Quadrant -- including the Borg, Hirogen, Species 8472, and those weird dinosaur people -- have had partial or full access to Federation technical schematics, Star Fleet operating protocols and fleet composition, and detailed maps of the Alpha Quadrant including the location of every star base, colony and homeworld in the Federation." "That is correct, but in my defense, we did keep the Kazon from stealing our transporter once." "In that case, I just have one more question for you." "Sir?" "What will it take to get you to never mention any of this again?"
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Sep 25, 2016 08:13
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speakhard posted:trekcomic.com is for you. This is really excellent. "Basis of Proof" in particular is exactly the kind of story I'd like to see on Discovery. Go figure, the comments are a mess in the most predictable ways.
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Sep 25, 2016 08:54
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Zurui posted:The Admiralty probably got like six pages into Janeway's logs and just said "gently caress it, just Fixed that for you.
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Sep 25, 2016 12:32
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I stand by the theory that the Voyager debrief was the most epic act of perjury in the Federation's history.
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Sep 25, 2016 14:01
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8one6 posted:I stand by the theory that the Voyager debrief was the most epic act of perjury in the Federation's history. Thank you, Mr. Chakotay, for your statement. On your way out, can you ask Mister...um...Tuvix to step in, please.
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Sep 25, 2016 14:09
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Duckbag posted:
Mission accomplished. Seven was right.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:31
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I'm really curious to see how they handle production design. Even if the show was ultimately poo poo, I'd love it to pieces if everyone had beehives and tapered cuts and the sets were made of painted styrofoam in insane colors. A thousand times yes. EX-GAIJIN AT LAST posted:I don't particularly care about inclusion or social justice or whatever - I'm not saying don't do it; the premise of an improved and unified humanity is worthy and a core feature of the franchise, but if it's too much in the foreground past a certain very low level of preachiness, it becomes distracting and counterproductive. One of the really nice things about Hannibal was the way it handled diversity - which is to say, they didn't talk about it, in fact they almost pointedly didn't talk about it, they just did it. Major canon characters were race- and gender-swapped, and those changes weren't treated as extra hurdles for the characters to overcome, but simply facts. One character was revealed to be bisexual in the third season, and I don't think it was ever commented on in any way. She had previously been shown dating men, then she started dating a woman, and it was treated so casually that you could almost believe that the show was taking place in a parallel universe where homophobia didn't exist and variant sexuality was a complete non-issue for everyone. Which is exactly how Star Trek should be.
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Sep 25, 2016 15:42
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Voyager: "Latent Image" Oh look, it's the episode where My favorite bit about this episode is that instead of having an ultimately unnecessary B plot, they just show clips of Voyager traveling through space for the transitions. This should happen more often.
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Sep 25, 2016 16:58
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I recently got the TNG Remastered Series BluRay Boxset, and I'd like to go through it with my wife, who has never seen the show, but based on my recollections of the first two seasons, and having relived them recently through The Greatest Generation podcast, I don't want to subject her to all the crap to get to the diamonds in the rough. The OP seems to suggest just skipping Season 1 (and 7) entirely, but does anyone have a decent list of episodes to catch? Or episodes that become relevant later? I'm sure this is a question that gets asked a lot so apologies in advanced for bringing it up again.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:08
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Having just finished watching the "highlights" of Season 1 for the first time recently, I'd most recommend Encounter at Farpoint, Where No One Has Gone Before, The Battle, The Big Goodbye, Datalore, Coming of Age, We'll Always Have Paris, Conspiracy, and The Neutral Zone. At the very least I'd say don't miss The Big Goodbye or Conspiracy because they're genuinely great. I've actually made a list of all the TNG episodes that I'm planning on watching (I've just started Season 3 now) and it's around 70 so I'm skipping quite a lot. I basically looked through a whole bunch of "best of" and "must watch" lists and added every episode that was mentioned, as well as a few others where important stuff happens.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:26
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8one6 posted:I want no goddamn holodeck. If the writers want to do a period piece they have to do a cowboy planet. I've always found it funny that there isn't actually a cowboy planet in the original series except the one temporarily created from Kirk's memory. But we do get three sword and sandal planets.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:30
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Klungar posted:I recently got the TNG Remastered Series BluRay Boxset, and I'd like to go through it with my wife, who has never seen the show, but based on my recollections of the first two seasons, and having relived them recently through The Greatest Generation podcast, I don't want to subject her to all the crap to get to the diamonds in the rough. The OP seems to suggest just skipping Season 1 (and 7) entirely, but does anyone have a decent list of episodes to catch? Or episodes that become relevant later? I'm sure this is a question that gets asked a lot so apologies in advanced for bringing it up again. I'm doing exactly this and we're in the home stretch of S7. We started in January and have watched an episode about every other day. We have watched every special feature. I say watch all of it, even S1 garbage. You can laugh at the 80s nonsense together. When Denise Crosby cameos later and Riker grows the beard, it will all feel stronger, as you know.
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Sep 25, 2016 17:38
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Really, a Trek marathon is nothing without Bij.
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Sep 25, 2016 18:02
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"The Mark of Gideon" thoughts: The fact that, just outside the room with three people in it, it's so crowded on Gideon that everybody's jostling everybody around is hilarious. Also, wow at the mention of birth control on 60's TV. "That Which Survives" thoughts: Man, Spock is an rear end in a top hat! Also, everybody keeps saying "blow up" instead of anything like "explode."
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Sep 25, 2016 19:08
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Odd question, but at least it probably hasn't been asked before: Memory Alpha's entry on Tholians shows a picture of the TOS Tholian puppet from the raw footage (before they made it look even weirder with post-processing stuff). A Google search for "Tholian puppet" or "Tholian raw footage" will turn up some additional images of the puppet (and the aluminum foil background behind it) without the post-processing. Doea anyone know where these images came from? Back in the days when I new a new fan and reading every behind the scenes TOS book on the planet (mid-1990s) those images sure as heck hadn't surfaced. The caption on memory alpha "raw footage" even has me hoping that the actual footage (without the post-processing) exists somewhere. I know this is a lot of words about a stupid 50-year-old puppet but I've always wondered what the puppet itself looked like and if there's any other shots of it I'd love to get a look.
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Sep 25, 2016 19:43
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CPColin posted:"The Mark of Gideon" thoughts: The fact that, just outside the room with three people in it, it's so crowded on Gideon that everybody's jostling everybody around is hilarious. Also, wow at the mention of birth control on 60's TV. Mark of Gideon is weird and dumb but also sort of amazing. Population growth was a big concern fifty years ago (as it is now) and, unlike now, it showed little sign of abating. The threat of the Malthusian specter is exaggerated to ludicrous degrees and there's an ugly eugenicist/social Darwinist subtext to the "solution" of killing off the weak through disease, but as suspect as the science and ethics are, there's just something so visceral about seeing the rooms full of listless people without even enough space to stretch out their arms. It also has a very gutsy message, which is that if you truly want to show respect for life, you have to ensure that life is worth living, even if it means doing harm. There's also the idea that fear of minor lesser impositions (birth control and population restrictions) now could force the powers that be into much more drastic action later. I can't figure out if that's a good message or not, and I like that. That Which Survives is just another third season turd with a thin, pointless "mystery," a pretty girl, and barely a wisp of a plot. It's basically just like Gideon, but with less going on and basically nothing to say. I mostly just remember the teleporting ghost robot chicks, the redshirt deaths, and the "beauty survives" bullshit at the end. What does Spock do again?
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Sep 25, 2016 21:48
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speakhard posted:trekcomic.com is for you. This is actually really neat. I just read the whole thing from the beginning. It's a very different take on some classic Trek stuff, and I dig the art style. (Even if the author does subscribe to that silly "the Romulans didn't have warp drive" idea.) That said, the current storyline is... uh... well, it's weird as all get-out.
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Sep 26, 2016 01:26
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Duckbag posted:That Which Survives is just another third season turd with a thin, pointless "mystery," a pretty girl, and barely a wisp of a plot. It's basically just like Gideon, but with less going on and basically nothing to say. I mostly just remember the teleporting ghost robot chicks, the redshirt deaths, and the "beauty survives" bullshit at the end. What does Spock do again? He spends half the episode telling Scotty to quit being so emotional and just go kill himself in the Jeffries tube already. Kirk's a butt to Sulu, too, for no reason.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:06
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Powered Descent posted:This is actually really neat. I just read the whole thing from the beginning. It's a very different take on some classic Trek stuff, and I dig the art style. (Even if the author does subscribe to that silly "the Romulans didn't have warp drive" idea.) Yeah, I just read it and I think the author is basically trying to do his take on a Brave New World "the future is decadent and oppressive" type story (with hints of borgification) and also lampooning modern layabout entertainment culture, but it doesn't really feel like Star Trek and clicking a "trek comic" link and landing on a hallucinatory montage of the phrase "gratify each other sexually" was really weird and off-putting. I'm iffy on the art. Some of it's really nice and it has some good style too it, but it's a little bit, well, webcomic-y. The human figures are loose with extremely expressive faces, which can be good, but there's a stiffness to the way people move (like they're just shifting between poses) and sometimes physical proportions and level of detail changes in a way I don't like. I'm not really a fan of the earthy color pallet or the big, weird noses everyone has, but those are stylistic choices and I can live with them. I'm also starting to wonder if the author isn't trying to have it both ways -- loading the story with continuity porn, but also deconstructing/exploding Trek cliches to the point where it feels like he's trying too hard. Stuff like explicitly calling security officers "redshirts," making fun of Kirk's girdle, referring to the boxy TOS shuttle as a "van," and all the mini-skirt and boot jokes feel more like a fan perspective than an "in-universe" one. I think the Romulan War and Haunted Ship stories were the best so far, because they felt the most like Trek and aren't weighed down by snark, fanwanking, or narrative gimmickry (even if calling the Number One character "Captain Barret" was a bit silly). The time travel stories have been too-cute-by-half and I especially thought that the Eugenics War/War on Terror mashup was pretty forced and the author was trying to be current and "political" without seeming to actually have much new to say. I also feel like the characters have been pretty flat so far (especially the space pirates in the second story), and while I don't mind the sexual openness the characters have, it sort of feels like a gimmick that distinguishes it from conventional Trek, but not from the thousands of "adult" webcomics that litter the internet. I have been enjoying it (although I suspect that has a lot to do with the simple joy of having new Star Trek stories to read), but I wish the author would focus a bit more on simple characterization and story-telling and a bit less on making fannish references and subverting Trek conventions.
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Sep 26, 2016 02:55
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Anyone have other recommendations for non-canon/non-licensed Trek stuff? I started watching Star Trek Continues and I've enjoyed it a whole lot so far. Wouldn't mind other series or comics or whatever to check out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-ziTBAkbQ
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Sep 26, 2016 03:00
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Yeah, I'd be interested in reading some Trek comics (not necessarily new ones, either), but the only ones I know about are the cheesy Gold Key ones from 40 years ago. Also, I know people have brought up the trek novels before, but I've been reluctant to look into them, because licensed sci-fi tends to be awful and most of the Trek books I've seen discussed have seemed like either half-assed continuations of existing shows or the embarrassingly fannish "Kira and Barclay go to the Shore Leave planet to save Tom and B'lanna from Tholians led by Mirror Universe Doctor Phlox" franchise mashups.
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Sep 26, 2016 03:26
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Official bookwise I can only make recommendations for DS9 ... The Siege Valhalla Devil in the Sky The Millenium Trilogy A Stitch in Time
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Sep 26, 2016 03:57
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, I'd be interested in reading some Trek comics (not necessarily new ones, either), but the only ones I know about are the cheesy Gold Key ones from 40 years ago. Also, I know people have brought up the trek novels before, but I've been reluctant to look into them, because licensed sci-fi tends to be awful and most of the Trek books I've seen discussed have seemed like either half-assed continuations of existing shows or the embarrassingly fannish "Kira and Barclay go to the Shore Leave planet to save Tom and B'lanna from Tholians led by Mirror Universe Doctor Phlox" franchise mashups. Quite a bit of the IDW stuff has been good thus far.
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Sep 26, 2016 04:03
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Duckbag posted:Yeah, I'd be interested in reading some Trek comics (not necessarily new ones, either), but the only ones I know about are the cheesy Gold Key ones from 40 years ago. You may have just inspired me to pick it up, in fact!
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Sep 26, 2016 05:59
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Duckbag posted:I have been enjoying it (although I suspect that has a lot to do with the simple joy of having new Star Trek stories to read), but I wish the author would focus a bit more on simple characterization and story-telling and a bit less on making fannish references and subverting Trek conventions. He kinda lost me when the Captain is casually having an affair with the first officer. The gay stuff was like, whatever, but even Kirk didn't casually gently caress his subordinates (except in the Mirror Universe).
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Sep 26, 2016 13:50
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Well, he was supposed to have a thing with Janice Rand, then she lost her job. Does anyone know when the second volume of The Fifty Year Mission will be available digitally? I just finished the first and want to keep going.
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Sep 26, 2016 14:11
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Astroman posted:He kinda lost me when the Captain is casually having an affair with the first officer. The gay stuff was like, whatever, but even Kirk didn't casually gently caress his subordinates (except in the Mirror Universe). I'm not going to read more than a couple pages of some dudes ugly rear end Star Trek webcomic but the first couple pages gave me the impression that this is set during the Romulan war. That's like 100 years before TOS, which is plenty of time for sexual mores and military behavioral norms to change quite a lot.
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Sep 26, 2016 15:04
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The only guy in Star Trek to ever make a big deal about fraternization was that notorious stick in the mud, Picard. While he was engaging in it. Other than that, you have got Illia and her vow of chastity, but Star Trek has otherwise come across as a time where people have dalliances and romances with each other when they feel like it. Riker and Troi certainly had on again periods in the midst of their normal off again's. Troi and Worf were together as well. Kirk flirted with anyone in a skirt. Worf married Jadzia. Bashir chased Jadzia for a while too. No one seems to care about chain of command and sex. Except Picard. And only when it comes to his own things.
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Sep 26, 2016 19:32
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"I find pleasure in waves and waves of cum exploding out from me" Actual Gene quote Also there's a great bit where he flat out rejects a story proposal set on Risa but then tells the writer to write something else on "that pleasure planet" and he wanted to see guys kissing guys, girls kissing girls, and orgies everywhere on his syndicated tv show that aired in the afternoon in many markets
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Sep 26, 2016 19:39
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remusclaw posted:The only guy in Star Trek to ever make a big deal about fraternization was that notorious stick in the mud, Picard. While he was engaging in it. Other than that, you have got Illia and her vow of chastity, but Star Trek has otherwise come across as a time where people have dalliances and romances with each other when they feel like it. Riker and Troi certainly had on again periods in the midst of their normal off again's. Troi and Worf were together as well. Kirk flirted with anyone in a skirt. Worf married Jadzia. Bashir chased Jadzia for a while too. No one seems to care about chain of command and sex. Except Picard. And only when it comes to his own things. I rewatched TMP the other night and wow, that vow of chastity line seriously comes out of pretty much loving nowhere and is never referenced again. I'm sure it made sense in some draft or other, or maybe it's supposed to have been delivered as flirtatious banter or something, but man is that a nonsensical line as it stands.
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Sep 26, 2016 20:07
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skasion posted:I rewatched TMP the other night and wow, that vow of chastity line seriously comes out of pretty much loving nowhere and is never referenced again. I'm sure it made sense in some draft or other, or maybe it's supposed to have been delivered as flirtatious banter or something, but man is that a nonsensical line as it stands. Roddenberry's weird sexual stuff strikes again.
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Sep 26, 2016 20:10
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Also, lmbo at Vger choosing to remake Ilia as a dumbass Mr Data version of herself but wearing a raincoat and platform heels
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Sep 26, 2016 20:12
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"She's a ... Deltan, sir." (we the audience have no clue why we should care, are confused, fall asleep later)
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Sep 26, 2016 20:12
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I actually think the second half of the movie is a lot stronger than the first, because instead of an incomprehensible mishmash of discarded concepts from Phase II, plot torture to get the same old crew back on the shiny new ship, and mumbling captains logs about how many days they have left till the movie needs to be in theaters, they focus in on the real strength of the movie, its psychedelic quality as a spacey audiovisual experience full of beautiful giant clouds and wormholes and planets and macroarchitecture and loud spooky noises and strident synthesizers. *cuts to ten minute scene of decker trying to teach a woman powered by an 8086 to play space checkers*
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Sep 26, 2016 20:18
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Apollodorus posted:"She's a ... Deltan, sir." I was just re-reading this section of Return to Tomorrow the other night. Basically, Roddenberry wanted to get across that Ilia and her race were hyper-sexualized but couldn't come up with a way to do it that wouldn't push them across the G rating. So he added in the "oath of celibacy" line as a way to obliquely hint towards it.
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Sep 26, 2016 21:28
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VOY "Dark Frontier" was actually pretty good. I enjoyed the return of the Borg Queen; it was existentially frightening to see a large-scale assimilation. Wanting to see how Seven got her groove back, I jumped all the way back to "The Gift." Chakotay was part of a collective, why isn't he helping? Speaking of helping, why does Tuvok know anything about psychokinesis? Vulcans don't have that kind of ability. Apparently Kes has to go all energy-being right the hell now. Pity, she was finally kind of interesting. It's a good juxtaposition with the Seven story, though. Is Harry Kim flirting with Seven already? He's less creepy than Geordi so that's something. I know it's unintentional but I'm beginning to buy Janeway's inconsistent philosophy. She's lost away from any Starfleet grounding. It reminds me of Riker - he was often a little morally lost. Janeway doesn't have the benefit of a Picard to hold up the ideals of the Federation.
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Sep 27, 2016 00:39
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remusclaw posted:The only guy in Star Trek to ever make a big deal about fraternization was that notorious stick in the mud, Picard. While he was engaging in it. Other than that, you have got Illia and her vow of chastity, but Star Trek has otherwise come across as a time where people have dalliances and romances with each other when they feel like it. Riker and Troi certainly had on again periods in the midst of their normal off again's. Troi and Worf were together as well. Kirk flirted with anyone in a skirt. Worf married Jadzia. Bashir chased Jadzia for a while too. No one seems to care about chain of command and sex. Except Picard. And only when it comes to his own things. Actually Kirk was supposed to be lonely and a bit tortured because he couldn't hook up with the women on the ship. He was the captain and was supposed to stay removed from that sort of thing. Yeoman Rand was supposed to be a forbidden love type deal where he wanted her and she loved him but they both had to control their feelings for the sake of the job. In Dagger of the Mind, we meet a woman he flirted with at a Christmas party and he's deeply uncomfortable and awkward about it because he's aware that there's something between them that shouldn't be there (unfortunately, this is also textbook workplace sexism -- he actually tries to take her off the mission because of their "history"). He kisses Uhura under mind control and sleeps with the "Captain's Woman" in the mirror universe (sex is evil), but that's about it. The rest of the crew can and would fraternize (Checkov certainly does), but the senior officers (except Scotty, maybe?) were all quite chaste with their crew and their romances always happened with people from off ship. TNG was a little different and I think it reflects either a change in Roddenberry (pffft) or the attitudes of the people around him. Troi and Riker were off-again-on-again (and do get grief about it once or twice), but were mostly off and I suspect Troi was actually put in those stupid v-necks at least in part to emphasize that she wasn't regular crew and make things less weird between them (also sexism). We also had Tasha and Data hooking up in like the third episode, but they were space drunk and the "let's never speak of this again" line pretty clearly suggested that sort of thing wasn't normalized. Geordie and Riker both hit on/dated junior crewmen, but actually I think the biggest impropriety on the ship was Data again when he dated his immediate subordinate (though that was another of those episodes where they forgot he was a commanding officer). Frankly it got a little weird for a while, but I think they wised up and put some rules in place. They addressed the issue directly (but still kinda badly) when Picard had to break it off with that Stellar Cartographer, and Riker's poon hound qualities got toned way down (especially on-ship). Later on, the on-ship romances were almost always between people of the same (or similar) ranks -- usually from different departments -- and generally didn't involve the captain or first officer. O'Brien was just a noncom and Keiko was in a different department (and was she even in Star Fleet?), Troi wasn't really in the command structure (until she took a loving test) and couldn't really give Worf orders or anything, Dax and Bashir were the same rank in different departments and then when they wanted to do the Worf romance the writers went ahead and promoted her so that she and Worf would also be the same rank. The same held for Tom and B'Lanna as well, until he got demoted (and then she makes fun of him for it), but it was really a notional demotion as no one on that ship ever actually changed jobs except Neelix. Chakotay and Seven was weird and stupid, but then again, neither of them were actually Star Fleet (although that doesn't change the power dynamic much). gently caress if I remember what happened on Enterprise though.
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Sep 27, 2016 02:08
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Trip loved catfish, and later T'pol. A romance for the ages. Oh, hoshi hooked up on Risa, I guess.
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Sep 27, 2016 02:47
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Looking it up, seems like Keiko was a botanist on the Enterprise but not in the Fleet. Also, what the gently caress? "Plankton loaf, a traditional Japanese meal"? I can imagine George Takei frowning.
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Sep 27, 2016 05:44
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