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v2vian man posted:the cops are supposed to know he is mentally ill... Mentally ill is another term for unstable. Knowing he was mentally ill only heightened their stress levels...when a mentally ill individual acting erratic assumes a shooting position on you, are you saying you would take the time out to verify that said mentally ill person does not have a gun before choosing appropriate action? We are talking milliseconds here and life or death in the officer's mind.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:12
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hey remember when cops tried to shoot a guy sitting in the road playing with his toy truck and instead shot a guy trying to help him. LIFE OR DEATH INDEED
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Sep 28, 2016 17:15
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Proud Christian Mom posted:hey remember when cops tried to shoot a guy sitting in the road playing with his toy truck and instead shot a guy trying to help him. That literally has nothing to do with this case other than you being a bandwagon troll trying to make a point irrelevant to this matter. But ok...
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Sep 28, 2016 17:17
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weird Asian candy posted:Mentally ill is another term for unstable. Knowing he was mentally ill only heightened their stress levels...when a mentally ill individual acting erratic assumes a shooting position on you, are you saying you would take the time out to verify that said mentally ill person does not have a gun before choosing appropriate action? We are talking milliseconds here and life or death in the officer's mind. Pretty sure the point that everyone is trying to make is that we expect police officers to be able to deal with these situations without lethal force. I understand that its a training issue but it is unacceptable that someone called 911 for help, explained the situation, and the police were unable to resolve the situation without lethal force.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:21
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MrSargent posted:I am absolutely not saying that Hillary doesn't deserve criticism or there isn't more she could be doing. But she actually spoke out about Tulsa and Charlotte recently and gave a great response when asked if cops are racist during the debate. Calling her "evil" isn't calling a spade a spade. If Kap wants more done for racial equality, he should throw his support behind Clinton while at the same time bringing up policy or changes that she needs to champion as President. Dismissing the potential president of the US as evil instead of working with her to enact change seems like a step in the wrong direction. Considering Hillary's history, the Democrats repeated attempts to minimize and ostracize the BLM movement in general and the public perception of what Kaepernick has been doing, what makes you think Hillary would want anything to do with him? A majority of white democrats are against Kaepernick.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:25
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MrSargent posted:Pretty sure the point that everyone is trying to make is that we expect police officers to be able to deal with these situations without lethal force. I understand that its a training issue but it is unacceptable that someone called 911 for help, explained the situation, and the police were unable to resolve the situation without lethal force. In an ideal world, absolutely the situation could have been dealt with without using lethal force. Everything is so easy to scrutinize in hindsight and by people not put in that situation. The assumption here is if you place yourself in that situation, poo poo even not as a cop...let's say you are walking down the street and come across a mentally ill person, acting erratically, hands in pocket and he comes up on you, pulls his hands rapidly out of his hands and puts himself in a shooting position that you would have the restraint to discern what is in his hands is NOT a gun before either ducking or running or taking action. It's an impossible task to ask of these guys.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:28
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Kalli posted:Considering Hillary's history, the Democrats repeated attempts to minimize and ostracize the BLM movement in general and the public perception of what Kaepernick has been doing, what makes you think Hillary would want anything to do with him? A majority of white democrats are against Kaepernick. One of the nights of the DNC was literally dedicated to the Mothers of the Movement (aka the parents of Trayvon Martin / Sandra Bland / Eric Garner etc). I'm not sure that''s ostracizing them.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:30
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I don't see why they couldn't tase him. Why is it a more sensible course of action to pull a gun out of a holster and kill someone than to pull a taser out of a holster and incapacitate them?
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Sep 28, 2016 17:31
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Skwirl posted:I don't see why they couldn't tase him. Why is it a more sensible course of action to pull a gun out of a holster and kill someone than to pull a taser out of a holster and incapacitate them? Because if he had a gun, bringing a taser to a gun fight would end poorly for the police officer.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:32
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weird Asian candy posted:Because if he had a gun, bringing a taser to a gun fight would end poorly for the police officer. Why, either the cops get him before he shoots or they don't, what advantage does a gun give them that a taser doesn't?
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Sep 28, 2016 17:34
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Skwirl posted:Why, either the cops get him before he shoots or they don't, what advantage does a gun give them that a taser doesn't? Is this a serious question? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ7w-WkKNw
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Sep 28, 2016 17:35
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so he was standing in the shooting pose when cops showed up? or did they show up and pull their guns first? or are they tiny fragile children?? or do police departments purposely and specifically not hire smart people???
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Sep 28, 2016 17:39
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Chilichimp posted:I don't know if any cop in America would have been any better in that moment, honestly. Thats kind of the loving problem.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:39
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weird Asian candy posted:In an ideal world, absolutely the situation could have been dealt with without using lethal force. Everything is so easy to scrutinize in hindsight and by people not put in that situation. The assumption here is if you place yourself in that situation, poo poo even not as a cop...let's say you are walking down the street and come across a mentally ill person, acting erratically, hands in pocket and he comes up on you, pulls his hands rapidly out of his hands and puts himself in a shooting position that you would have the restraint to discern what is in his hands is NOT a gun before either ducking or running or taking action. It's an impossible task to ask of these guys. I have much higher expectations of police officers than of normal citizens. Are you seriously saying that "any average person would react this way so it's ok for police to be as equally unprepared for these situations, despite it being part of their job." You say it's easy to look at these things in hindsight, but the problem is these things keep happening and keep exposing that officers are not adequately trained to resolve these situations without lethal force.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:40
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v2vian man posted:so he was standing in the shooting pose when cops showed up? or did they show up and pull their guns first? or are they tiny fragile children?? or do police departments purposely and specifically not hire smart people??? The view must be great from the cubicle in your ivory tower.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:41
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v2vian man posted:so he was standing in the shooting pose when cops showed up? or did they show up and pull their guns first? or are they tiny fragile children?? or do police departments purposely and specifically not hire smart people??? I'd like to know the answers for the rest, but for that last question the answer is an emphatic yes and there have been court cases where their decision to do so has been upheld.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:41
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v2vian man posted:or do police departments purposely and specifically not hire smart people??? It's this. You can be denied a job in law enforcement if you are too smart. They want good soldiers who follow orders and don't question things too much. Plus, most smart people don't want to be cops to begin with because it's an awful job with low pay.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:43
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I would never want to be a cop, but I would love to be a detective
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Sep 28, 2016 17:43
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Again reposting the story of a cop who was fired for not blowing away a guy he thought was suicidal https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/09/12/west-virginia-cop-fired-for-not-killing-a-man-with-an-unloaded-gun/
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Sep 28, 2016 17:43
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Gynecolojustice posted:I would never want to be a cop, but I would love to be a detective yeah some of the detective stuff is cool I work with some law enforcement who do biometric identification, latent print exams, crime scene investigation, etc. and they're all very bright.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:47
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seiferguy posted:One of the nights of the DNC was literally dedicated to the Mothers of the Movement (aka the parents of Trayvon Martin / Sandra Bland / Eric Garner etc). I'm not sure that''s ostracizing them. They do make nice tokens to try and placate BLM. What have the Democrats actually proposed as policy to address their concerns? Hillary's speech in particular pointed to the same horseshit that's going to get what? probably 1100-1300 people killed by cops this year? It'd be cool to know, but the DoJ isn't even allowed to gather that data. As we saw with the released emails, their plan was little more then to... coach candidates to not directly talk about black on black crime or All Lives Matter.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:48
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I wouldn't understand the science stuff, but when it comes to interviewing suspects, looking for clues, identifying who is lying, the "where is Carmen Sandiego" type of work... I would strongly excel
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Sep 28, 2016 17:50
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MrSargent posted:I have much higher expectations of police officers than of normal citizens. Are you seriously saying that "any average person would react this way so it's ok for police to be as equally unprepared for these situations, despite it being part of their job." You say it's easy to look at these things in hindsight, but the problem is these things keep happening and keep exposing that officers are not adequately trained to resolve these situations without lethal force. I agree with you, these things keep happening and way way too frequently and I do believe the issue is training. I'm just saying that at the end of the day, these guys are human like you or I, they feel emotions like fear and stress like you or I and I feel they are in a lose-lose situation when it comes to these things. It just seems that the more this happens, the more outcry there is from the public and media (obviously) which makes everyone more tense including the police officers. Again, I'm not advocating any police shootings. I just try to put myself in their shoes, and seeing that picture I can understand them thinking he was pulling a gun. I'm not saying I understand them killing him, but understand why they believed their life was in danger at that moment in time.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:52
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They also rely on a lot of extremely unreliable junk science, but yeah investigations seem neat which is probably why there's 50 detective procedurals on TV at any given time.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:52
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David West rules: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/warriors-david-west-offers-perfect-141746539.htmlquote:West compared Kaepernick’s actions to someone being drowned with “the environment around you, and the waves and current getting stronger,” and once the person’s head is above water, “you hear people in the boat complaining about you splashing.”
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Sep 28, 2016 17:52
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Dont forget the part about brow beating the mentally ill into confessions
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Sep 28, 2016 17:53
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Gynecolojustice posted:I would never want to be a cop, but I would love to be a detective Well if no one else is going to link it, here then.
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Sep 28, 2016 17:57
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I'm not saying this in reference to this most recent shooting but I do think that maybe given the amount of times we keep hearing "the body cam was off" "the body cam was turned off" "there was a malfunction" that we need to quickly establish some body cam ground rules before they become the most worthless addition to a uniform since the devil rays' 2000 gradient paint fill
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Sep 28, 2016 17:58
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If NCIS taught me anything you can just be a really smart IT tech nerd soggy mess of a man and still be a Navy detective so we're good to be detectives without being cops first.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:00
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(i knew they avoided hiring smart people)swickles posted:Thats kind of the loving problem. yep the idea that it's only some bad cops is not really accurate, as much as some people in the kaepernick camp will take that angle so that cops don't get mad
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Sep 28, 2016 18:01
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They've avoided hiring smart people and now actively hire people with military backgrounds because if there's people out there who know how to deal with de-escalation, its guys who've spent a few years in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:04
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They'll specifically say "it's just a few bad apples" ignoring that the phrase comes from "a few bad apples spoil the bunch" I mean I know that idiom is a fallacy but it's still amusing
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Sep 28, 2016 18:04
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Kalli posted:They do make nice tokens to try and placate BLM. What have the Democrats actually proposed as policy to address their concerns? Hillary's speech in particular pointed to the same horseshit that's going to get what? probably 1100-1300 people killed by cops this year? It'd be cool to know, but the DoJ isn't even allowed to gather that data. As we saw with the released emails, their plan was little more then to... coach candidates to not directly talk about black on black crime or All Lives Matter. I mean you could actually read Clinton's website and her plans surrounding criminal justice reform for starters and then come to a conclusion rather than doing no research and assuming there is nothing in her policies to address racial inequality. Here's a screengrab I just took to get you started. 
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Sep 28, 2016 18:38
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I did, and that's the same useless horseshit we've seen out of Chicago, Baltimore, Oakland over and over and over and over again that results in zero change and more dead people. She said as much during her speech before slobbing on the knobs of cops and just how badly they all want to fix things too but gosh darn, it just doesn't happen!
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Sep 28, 2016 18:42
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Spoeank posted:If NCIS taught me anything you can just be a really smart IT tech nerd soggy mess of a man and still be a Navy detective so we're good to be detectives without being cops first.
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Sep 28, 2016 18:55
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Do people want Hillary to come out and scream "ACAB!" and start blasting Leftover Crack records? She's trying to win the presidency against a white supremacist's wet dream. I'm far from her biggest fan but I'm not exactly angry about her compromising.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:06
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Henchman of Santa posted:Do people want Hillary to come out and scream "ACAB!" and start blasting Leftover Crack records? She's trying to win the presidency against a white supremacist's wet dream. I'm far from her biggest fan but I'm not exactly angry about her compromising. the question, which i think Kap is also addressing, is whether she's compromising (which suggests that her actual feelings are to the left of what she's saying) or if she's really representing what she thinks, in other words if she's well-meaning but vanilla
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Sep 28, 2016 19:20
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Kalli posted:I did, and that's the same useless horseshit we've seen out of Chicago, Baltimore, Oakland over and over and over and over again that results in zero change and more dead people. You realize she is running for President and has to be very diplomatic with her statements right? This isn't a new thing for any candidate. If you actually researched her stances on issues that deal with racial inequality, why did you ask what her positions were instead of providing your criticism of those policies? What are some things that you think should be a part of a candidate's platform as it pertains to racial inequality?
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Sep 28, 2016 19:32
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I think Hillary's heart and plans are in the right place, but pushing her to go further is not a bad idea at all. Though that might not work if it seems like you're writing her off regardless. I really hope Kaep doesn't go down the "blow it all up" path. It's pretty much the opposite of how his protest is working.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:35
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go go go go ROSCOE! posted:NCIS is a garbage show Cool thanks.
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Sep 28, 2016 19:42
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