|
Infinitum posted:It also implies Black Panther is a loving arsehole for denying the world of a cure for cancer. What makes it better is that he was there when Captain Marvel was dying and did not bring up he had a cure.
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 18:17 |
|
|
From what I've read one of tchallas defining traits is being an rear end in a top hat so that fits Actually thinking about it namor, him and doom have a lot in common
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
They're all "noble kings who must make HARD DECISIONS for their people" (see also: Black Bolt, certain versions of Magneto/Cyclops, ect) which is mostly an excuse to write a supervillain but pretend they're sympathetic because it's for a GOOD CAUSE. T'Challa is the best of that lot admittedly but the fact he's lumped in with them is a problem.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:can we just get to the point where we agree that there is no amount of words that can be typed that is going to change my opinion on this being a badly written cancer story? Yeah, except for this forgetting all of the times Jane Foster has personally witnessed magical healing deals for otherwise lethal maladies going horribly bad and resulting in an apocalypse that had to be dealt with, undoing the cure in the process. I know you're wanting to act like this particular cancer story happens in a vacuum but saying Jane Foster ought to be the character to sit there and do an exposition dump about all of the scenarios where the solution Thor suggests is exactly the wrong move to make in the universe they live in is even more idiotic than you think the story is. EDIT: I mean, this is Jane Foster we're talking about. The woman that became a norse goddess when she went to Asgard with Thor in Journey into Mystery #125 in 1966. She briefly gained immortality, then lost it when cosmic rear end in a top hat Odin took her power away and sent her back to Earth because she showed fear when called upon to fight off some entity called (I poo poo you not) The Monstrous Unknown. Jane's been screwed over by Odin many times over the course of her existence (the whole being stripped of her immortality and sent back to Earth is just the tip of the iceberg), so her being reluctant to accept any help from the pantheon Thor would turn to (which would ultimately involve Odin at some point) makes a hell of a lot of sense if you know anything about her history. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Sep 27, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 20:25
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Yeah I have no problem with any story using contrivance to get the characters into an interesting thematic place, but don't pretend it isn't contrivance. I think ultimately this is all that needs to be said re: Thor or indeed most odd status quos in comics.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 20:30
|
|
site posted:From what I've read one of tchallas defining traits is being an rear end in a top hat so that fits That's really a recent thing. Priest and Kirby wrote him as a pretty cool dude who sometimes had to weigh the interests of his country (or of Africans/African-Americans) against the loyalties of other heroes. Hudlin and Hickman are the ones who wrote him as basically Quieter Black Namor. Although in Hudlin's run everyone was a loving rear end in a top hat, so it's not like he stood out.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
Wade Wilson posted:Yeah, except for this forgetting all of the times Jane Foster has personally witnessed magical healing deals for otherwise lethal maladies going horribly bad and resulting in an apocalypse that had to be dealt with, undoing the cure in the process. poo poo, you're right. A tremendous masterpiece, let's start teaching this in schools
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 21:17
|
|
|
They also do not say how bad the cancer was, and I have some friends whose mom did die of Breast Cancer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 21:21
|
|
|
Wade Wilson posted:Yeah, except for this forgetting all of the times Jane Foster has personally witnessed magical healing deals for otherwise lethal maladies going horribly bad and resulting in an apocalypse that had to be dealt with, undoing the cure in the process. It was Thor #136, and to be fair while Odin was a prick he didn't do it just to be an rear end in a top hat but to show that Jane wouldn't be happy in Asgard. The entire issue shows her hating the place and Jane actually requests to have her powers taken away and be sent back to Earth at the end. And while Odin's been a prick to her, Asgardian magic has saved her multiple times like that time where Sif merged with her to stop Jane from dying from an attempted suicide. Or when Thor went back in time and prevented Jane's murder by the Zaniac during Simonson's run.
|
|
#
?
Sep 27, 2016 22:54
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:They also do not say how bad the cancer was, and I have some friends whose mom did die of Breast Cancer. My stepdad died of cancer a year ago this sunday and my future father in law is currently battling it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 03:23
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:What makes it better is that he was there when Captain Marvel was dying and did not bring up he had a cure. Eh, even with Marvel's calendar creep, I'd argue that it's been quite a few years since Mar-Vell died, and T'Challa seemed pretty troubled at the time that he didn't have a cure yet. In my no-prize headcanon, Mar-Vell's death is what galvanized Wakandan cancer research, leading to their success, before deciding that Whitey didn't deserve it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 04:11
|
|
|
Cancer is being written as a villain, and is immortal for the same reason other villains are immortal.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 05:37
|
|
|
Choco1980 posted:Eh, even with Marvel's calendar creep, I'd argue that it's been quite a few years since Mar-Vell died, and T'Challa seemed pretty troubled at the time that he didn't have a cure yet. In my no-prize headcanon, Mar-Vell's death is what galvanized Wakandan cancer research, leading to their success, before deciding that Whitey didn't deserve it. If I remember correctly that was a year one story. Rhyno I was just pointing out that Breast Cancer is treatable it still kills.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 06:08
|
|
|
I think the T'challa page is made nuanced by the idea of giving the cure for cancer to "the West" in exchange for something, as opposed to (say) uploading a PDF on the matter to https://www.tchalla-cures-cancer.wak That dude's probably not wrong either, supervillains would probably use the technology to create dinosaurs or something.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 10:07
|
|
|
My father is dying of Motor Neurons Disease and unlike some Cancers there isn't a loving thing anyone can do about it. So from my own perspective Thor here, and Barbara Gordon as Oracle back when she refused the ability to walk again comic writers should never, ever loving write about a disease or permanent injury. My friend is going blind in 6-8 years, do you think she tells me how she wouldn't want a cure for blindness if it wasn't available for everyone? No she tells me she's scared and cries talks about learning to cook in pitch black because she's going to need to and there is gently caress all anyone can do to change that. The only, and I mean only time I have seen this done well was in one comic I don't recall, where cancer children got a comic made with a hero beating up a cancer stand in monster, and the hero is freaking out because "Oh god these kids think this can save them" and the doctor has to explain "No dumbass, it just makes them feel better." I hear too often that "It'd be insulting to cancer patients or cripples if a character was healed." No. No it wouldn't. The last thing they want to see is their escapes suffering just as they are and not being able to fix it. It is disgusting and infuriating.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 11:33
|
|
|
Theu are probably right. Norman Osborn managed to weaponize cures for cancer not once, but Twice. (Once during his feud with Deadpool in Daniel Way's run. And once during A Thousand Way's to Day arc in Spider-man. )
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 11:56
|
|
|
You can weaponize cars really easily, that's no reason to not use them.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 11:59
|
|
|
Onmi posted:My father is dying of Motor Neurons Disease and unlike some Cancers there isn't a loving thing anyone can do about it. So from my own perspective Thor here, and Barbara Gordon as Oracle back when she refused the ability to walk again comic writers should never, ever loving write about a disease or permanent injury. My friend is going blind in 6-8 years, do you think she tells me how she wouldn't want a cure for blindness if it wasn't available for everyone? No she tells me she's scared and cries talks about learning to cook in pitch black because she's going to need to and there is gently caress all anyone can do to change that. I'm reading this from my thrice weekly blood cleaning that's not keeping me alive but rather keeping me not dead, and I can't agree hard enough.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 13:37
|
|
|
Nessus posted:I think the T'challa page is made nuanced by the idea of giving the cure for cancer to "the West" in exchange for something, as opposed to (say) uploading a PDF on the matter to https://www.tchalla-cures-cancer.wak Links is down, do you have a backup?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 17:11
|
|
|
Sigma-X posted:poo poo, you're right. A tremendous masterpiece, let's start teaching this in schools Hey I'm going to just ignore context in a discussion of a character's motivations because they don't align with how I'd act if I was in their situation with my own personal history to draw upon.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 17:41
|
|
|
On the topic of cancer, gonna post a good comic on the subject where everything is handled well.               Don't know the issue. (Posted on Imgur back in 2014, which is why I'm posting it in full) Just deals with a whole range of issues really well and it's the kind of Mister Fantastic that I like to see. (That or The Maker) And on the subject of hospitals there's a really good one, that I can't find for the life of me, where some guy has gone to a childrens hospital dressed up as Superman or Batman or someone when a robber breaks in and threatens the kids. He subdues the guy, but gets shot in the process, kids start to freak out as the dude is clearly bleeding out, but he puts on a brave face and says he'll be right back with help, walks out the door and collapses so the kids don't see a 'superhero' die. If anyone knows of it, could you post it
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 17:47
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:On the topic of cancer, gonna post a good comic on the subject where everything is handled well. The first set of panels I assume is from the Marvel Knights Fantastic Four series by Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa and Steve McNiven. Don't know the rest.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 18:35
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:Don't know the issue. (Posted on Imgur back in 2014, which is why I'm posting it in full) well that got me right in the feels goddamn, and also flashbacks to when my dad died last year. But that was complications from pneumonia, not cancer
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
Infinitum posted:On the topic of cancer, gonna post a good comic on the subject where everything is handled well. Holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:03
|
|
|
This Reed Richards is too nice this must be a skrull or a clone or mind controlled Reed or something
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
site posted:This Reed Richards is too nice this must be a skrull or a clone or mind controlled Reed or something On the other hand, he's ignoring his family, friends, and colleagues to do something that he has deemed more important without telling anyone what or why.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
site posted:This Reed Richards is too nice this must be a skrull or a clone or mind controlled Reed or something Well, he still sends his wife to voicemail, so there's some consistency.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
Alacron posted:On the other hand, he's ignoring his family, friends, and colleagues to do something that he has deemed more important without telling anyone what or why. Identity confirmed.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
site posted:This Reed Richards is too nice this must be a skrull or a clone or mind controlled Reed or something There's another set of panels of Reed ruminating on him effectively giving the powers and the associated problems to his, let's face it, family and why he set up the whole super-hero thing. What I'm saying is that Marvel Knights Reed Richards should be canon Reed Richards. Even if the Marvel Knights series still happened in 616. Edit: A "Doctor Doom sock puppet account" gimmick would be pretty funny. LashLightning fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:35
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Identity confirmed. Yeah lol you guys got me
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
LashLightning posted:There's another set of panels of Reed ruminating on him effectively giving the powers and the associated problems to his, let's face it, family and why he set up the whole super-hero thing. Cause that wasn't Marvel Knights. E-- Dug it up cause it's touching and relevant:   Text size kind-of sucks but w/e. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Sep 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:42
|
|
|
I'm sure there's something to be said about Reed Richards in regular continuity going through the fantastication process as a middle age man becoming an incredibly smart and also good if somewhat arrogant guy versus Reed Richards as a teenager becoming an incredibly good and also horrible if incredibly arrogant guy in ultimate continuity but I can't quite put it into words
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
site posted:This Reed Richards is too nice this must be a skrull or a clone or mind controlled Reed or something 
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Sep 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 00:57
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:E-- Dug it up cause it's touching and relevant: Those last three panels, do you think he's referring to being forgiven by Ben, Sue and Johnny? Or forgiving himself?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 01:07
|
|
|
Yes
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 01:13
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Are you talking about those Waid/Wierngo pages from around the same time where Reed tells infant-Val about how he knows he hosed over Sue, Johnny, and Ben and his solution was to keep them out as public celebrities and heroes so they wouldn't get immediately stuck in some underground research bunker the rest of their lives. That however cheesy, going out and calling himself "Mr. Fantastic" and promoting the "Fantastic Four" incessantly would give his family the closest thing to normalcy they could hope for? Well, that shows how much I know! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 01:20
|
|
|
I get very defensive over the Waid/Wierngo run relative to Marvel Knights' F4. It's not you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:Are you talking about those Waid/Wierngo pages from around the same time where Reed tells infant-Val about how he knows he hosed over Sue, Johnny, and Ben and his solution was to keep them out as public celebrities and heroes so they wouldn't get immediately stuck in some underground research bunker the rest of their lives. That however cheesy, going out and calling himself "Mr. Fantastic" and promoting the "Fantastic Four" incessantly would give his family the closest thing to normalcy they could hope for? These two loving pages. The next time anyone tries to make a F4 movie, everyone involved needs to read them and demonstrate that they understand.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 10:12
|
|
|
In my opinion it would just be better for everyone involved if the words "Fantastic Four" and "movie" don't just meet in the next 50 years or so Edit: typo much DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Sep 29, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 12:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 18:17 |
|
|
DigitalRaven posted:These two loving pages. The next time anyone tries to make a F4 movie, everyone involved needs to read them and demonstrate that they understand. In my perfect world the secondary arc is about Ben believing Reed is still being an rear end in a top hat when it takes time to get a cure so he goes to Doom who gives him an image inducer, making for the fourth act twist where Reed proves himself and Ben realizes where he belongs. Sue and Johnny get A-Plot focus in the sequel where they go to Atlantis. DarkCrawler posted:In my opinion it would just be bettet for everyone infolved if the words "Fantastic Four" and "movie" don't just meet in the next 50 years or so
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2016 12:49
|
|